Evolution contradicts Islam

[Alchemist]

Straw man #1000284745656 .....You were asking me what Nature was, I clearly made the definition in context of the universe, this doesn't mean Allah has no domain outside of it....crap

you are an idiot

stop projecting...

it's your own fault for having a stupid definition like that...


why don't you redefine it again...

You can't ...because your tautology depends on it..

Nature is "The things which Allah(swt) has formed by the Dictates of Allah to Govern His Universe"

Now you are saying that Things, Universe and Nature are all the same thing.

No?


Fail!

[Alchemist]

This is what happens when rationalism gets divorced from reality - abstractionism.


If I were to press you on even more your mind will just explode-


try relating your nonsensical claim to the Qur'an. What would be the substitute for the word Universe? Just try it....

[طالب]

And who are you influenced by Goat?
Darwin?

Well, I'm influenced, in part, by The Blue Marble photo taken by the Apollo 17 crew:



This photo clearly shows that the Earth is spherical, not flat, don't you agree?

I'm also influenced by my Mullah who I specifically asked today if the Quran states that the Earth is flat. His response was:

1. If whoever had put that idea into my mind was a flat-head
2. No, Islam brought the concept of a spherical Earth to Muslims at a time when Christians still believed it was flat

[Alchemist]

Well, I'm influenced, in part, by The Blue Marble photo taken by the Apollo 17 crew:



This photo clearly shows that the Earth is spherical, not flat, don't you agree?

ba-aaah

ba-aaah


ba-aaaah

[ScimitarXEdge]

stop projecting...

it's your own fault for having a stupid definition like that...


why don't you redefine it again...

You can't ...because your tautology depends on it..

Nature is "The things which Allah(swt) has formed by the Dictates of Allah to Govern His Universe"

Now you are saying that Things, Universe and Nature are all the same thing.

No?


Fail!

i'm going to call your bluff and ask you to explain how it's a tautology


1 ...2 ....3 ....go

[Alchemist]

wow!

You can't be that stupid Scimitar...Quote me on where I said that the shape of the earth is flat?
This jackass..excuse me..goat...is quoting me as saying "what I believe in regards to the ayats that say..." and you two are sooooo desperate to put the idiotic claim that I believe the planet is flat and that if you swim to the edge of the world you'll fall down! This is what a strawman is called. You pulled this strawman on Mujib! Yet here you are ...two desperados trying soo hard to beat that strawman to prove that evolution is according to the Quran? So many conjectures on open and clear verses of the Qur'an have you both rejected! Then you call me uneducated ...and have this uneducated goat who has never been to a science class in his life ..to debate me on evolution? Where is your aqil? You have the time here to sit for hours on end to debate me on "world is flat" but when I challenge you on the scientific merit of evolution ..."Oh I got a test to write...I'll come to it a week later"

I already explained your Tautology son.

Why do you want me to embarrass you further?

You said "Nature is the Physical Manifestation of Qur'an"...that you look to Nature to verify what is in the Quran.

Then I asked you to define what Nature is...

so you said:

"The things which Allah(swt) has formed by the Dictates of Allah to Govern His Universe"

Angels are things which Allah has formed by the Dictates of Allah...What is the function of Angels? To Govern His Universe according to His Dictates!
But then when I pointed that out to you, you said Angels are not off the Universe, they are Super Natural.

Meaning that Angels are not things - they are no thing. So Mujib's initial rebuttal stands correct - by denying the uniqueness of Adam, you have like wise denied the existence of Angels, Heaven and Hell, Jins and Shaiateen. So shiateen are outside this universe...angels are outside this universe .. meaning Angel Mikaeel does not control the climate or that we don't have Guardian Angels ...and shaitan cannot whisper in our hearts...you deny all this!

But even then you still can't say what "His Universe" means!
There is no way you can define using the words of the Qur'an without contradicting your self on what "Nature" is.


wait a minute what rubbish is this:

"Things Allah has formed by Dictates of Allah"

So you admit that He merely Dictates and it forms - so if He says to a thing Be then it Is and if that thing be a clay molded into the shape of Adam and says to be ...then it will be! And what is the reason for your denial? That
"Things are formed by Allah's Dictates" So Nature is every Khalq of Allah. By saying that Nature is Quran's physical Manifestation, you engage in a logical fallacy - we humans are also Nature, so we are also Physical Manifestation of Qur'an as we are also charged as Khalifa on earth ...so why even bother with a Qur'an? or with Religion? Let's be like faye...think positive and do good to others - in fact why a need for believing in Allah or even worship Him? Nature doesn't worship Allah. Do you see Nature worshiping Allah? Can you prove that they are?

Absurd!

Desperate fools.

[Alchemist]

I'm also influenced by my Mullah who I specifically asked today if the Quran states that the Earth is flat. His response was:

1. If whoever had put that idea into my mind was a flat-head
2. No, Islam brought the concept of a spherical Earth to Muslims at a time when Christians still believed it was flat

do me a favour goat...

go tell your imam that you believe in evolution ...that man evolved from prime apes.

Just see what he'll say....

don't worry about earth being flat ... we are not even talking about ...you two morons are obsessed over it because you wish to draw a strawman on me since I've pulled the rug of darwin from right under your feet and yours butts are soar now...so you wish you redeem your selves. Pathetic.

Go ask him!

[ScimitarXEdge]

You keep ignoring the UNIVERSE part and in turn make yourself a bumbling moron.

[Alchemist]

Relate your concept of the Universe to Qur'anic Ayats.

If you are truthful!

[Fahd]

Well, I'm influenced, in part, by The Blue Marble photo taken by the Apollo 17 crew:



This photo clearly shows that the Earth is spherical, not flat, don't you agree?

I'm also influenced by my Mullah who I specifically asked today if the Quran states that the Earth is flat. His response was:

1. If whoever had put that idea into my mind was a flat-head
2. No, Islam brought the concept of a spherical Earth to Muslims at a time when Christians still believed it was flat

يقول تعالى:{والأرض بعد ذلك دحاها }

لفد وردت كلمة (دحا) صريحة، و(الدحية) :هي بيضة النعام ..فالآية الكريمة ، إذن حددت ليس كروية الأرض فقط .

.بل حددت كونها بيضوية وهذا ما ثبت يقيناً بالأقمار الصناعية التي صورت الأرض من بعد آلاف الكيلومترات..

وعندما يقرأ الإنسان المؤمن الآية الكريمة :{ وأذن في الناس بالحج يأتوك رجالاً وعلى كل ضامر يأتين من كل فج عميق{

إن كلمة ( عميق ) هذه تشهد بعظمة القرآن الكريم ..فلو كانت الأرض مستوية مسطحة لقال القرآن (يأتين من كل فج بعيد)

لأن كلمة (بعيد) تفيد المسافة بين شيئين على مستوى واحد .. ولكن الأرض كروية ..فالقادمون إلى مكة المكرمة يأتون من بقاع

عميقة بالنسبة لها، وذلك بحسب انحناء الأرض الكروي لذا جاءت الآية {من كل فج عميق }

:p

[طالب]

don't worry about earth being flat ... we are not even talking about ...you two morons are obsessed over it because you wish to draw a strawman on me since I've pulled the rug of darwin from right under your feet and yours butts are soar now...so you wish you redeem your selves. Pathetic.

It was not meant as a strawman, Alchemist. If you will not accept, or if you simply ignore, evidence as blatant as The Blue Marble photo, then whatever evidence we bring forward concerning evolution will never be good enough.

At the moment I'm simply considering your mental state. The mental state of creationists and flat Earth believers is actually very similar. Robert Schadewald analyzed the similarites and wrote many articles on creationists, flat Earthers and other groups of people engaged in pseudoscience.

His articles are very interesting and funny actually. He even became a member of the Flat Earth Society, but was kicked out later for displaying "spherical tendencies" lol. He was very proud of being the only member to have been kicked out of the organisation. I encourage people to look up his writings.

I'm also considering how these tendencies migrated from fundamentalist Christians in America to the Muslim world. Apparently it started in the 1980s when the minister of education in Turkey contacted the Institute of Creation Research (ICR) (a Young earth creationist institution that promotes "Creation Science" in the US) in order to develop a curriculum that would teach evolution and creation side by side.

In the 1990s Adnan Oktar (Harun Yahya) started his BAV organisation and started railing against evolution using the writings of young earth Christian creationists. Oktar is also proponent of many conspiracy theories concerning Jews, Freemasonry and Holocaust denial.

I have also noticed these conspiracy tendencies in my postings with Alchemist. E.g. his belief that evolution is theory started by Marxist Dialectical Materialists.

I guess these conspiracy theories are useful for denying the most obvious evidence. E.g. I'm sure Alchemist believes that The Blue Marble photo is not a real photo of Earth, but rather a fake created here on Earth by NASA (perhaps ordered by the US government?) in order to fool people. He probably believes that the Apollo 17 mission never took place and that the moon landings were fake.

In one of his articles Robert Schadewald classifies the people who propagate pseudoscience into three groups; the liberals, moderates and conservatives. The liberals believe in scientific creationism, the moderates believe in geocentrism as well as creationism and finally the conservatives believe in flat-earthism and also geocentrism and creationism. These are considered the three branches of the tree called "Bible-Science". According to Schadewald, there was intense hostility between the different branches, especially between the liberals and the conservatives, i.e. the creationists and the flat-earthers.

It's obvious that Alchemist is a conservative according to this classification. I assume you also believe in geocentrism, Alchemist?

By the way, Schadewald's amusing article can be read here: http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/crea-fe.htm

[Alchemist]

Goat and "Swordboy"

LOL

you two are just buffoons for trying so hard to twist my words. It is a strawman and now you are adding another strawman just to deflect the shameful and absurd claims you both have made.
Only you two idiots are trying hard to cover each others butts have getting exposed so that other readers won't notice. Now you are putting on this farcical show that "Oh alchemist thinks the planet is flat ...hark hark hark ..." Could you be any more desperate?

You can't answer a single question of mines!
You can't even engage in a proper debate with me without showing how ignorant you are. Both of you!
Scimitar is a heretic...a mushrik and a fasiq.

I didn't know how grave the consequences of believing in Evolution was until I debated with some of you ignorant lots - sun, road runner, swordboy and goat (all cartoonie nick names lol) - to believe that "Nature" is thing that acts on it's own will and that you are so smart that you have figured out Allah and how He creates - is firstly shirk, secondly takabur. And Allah loves neither. You can go and do good deeds for your selves, for others ...but you wronged THE ONLY ONE whose judgment matters!


Did you ask your mullah ...assuming you have one ... that you believe you came from prime apes?

You won't!

You know what his response will be!

That in itself should be an indication of how wrong you are!

But you are such an asinine individual that you have deflected and displaced the issue from evolution to "flat earth" ..something your peer - swordboy taught you.

When swordboy came on another forum, there were people there with even a worse off sorry state - blatant atheists and pro-westerners - so he started to point out to them how they were obviously suffering from an inferiority complex - and until then I was the only one doing that - so he and I became the only ones to show the hypocrisy of these moralist on every turn - but here ...the majority are muslims and have sound aqida ... so as it is in chemistry - that if you want to separate different substances, you put them in another solution where like will dissolve like - so Swordboy now runs with goat who doesn't even have a grade 8 understanding of biology and heretics like roshina who thinks praying during menstruation is a good thing and road runner, atheist - all because they put a higher priority on their own conjectures than on the word of Allah. They think they know better...


يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ اتَّقُواْ رَبَّكُمُ الَّذِي خَلَقَكُم مِّن نَّفْسٍ وَاحِدَةٍ وَخَلَقَ مِنْهَا زَوْجَهَا وَبَثَّ مِنْهُمَا رِجَالاً كَثِيرًا وَنِسَاء وَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ الَّذِي تَسَاءلُونَ بِهِ وَالأَرْحَامَ إِنَّ اللّهَ كَانَ عَلَيْكُمْ رَقِيبًا
4:1 O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, his mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you): for Allah ever watches over you.
وَهُوَ الَّذِيَ أَنشَأَكُم مِّن نَّفْسٍ وَاحِدَةٍ فَمُسْتَقَرٌّ وَمُسْتَوْدَعٌ قَدْ فَصَّلْنَا الآيَاتِ لِقَوْمٍ يَفْقَهُونَ

6:98 It is He Who hath produced you from a single person: here is a place of sojourn and a place of departure: We detail Our signs for people who understand.


هُوَ الَّذِي خَلَقَكُم مِّن نَّفْسٍ وَاحِدَةٍ وَجَعَلَ مِنْهَا زَوْجَهَا لِيَسْكُنَ إِلَيْهَا فَلَمَّا تَغَشَّاهَا حَمَلَتْ حَمْلاً خَفِيفًا فَمَرَّتْ بِهِ فَلَمَّا أَثْقَلَت دَّعَوَا اللّهَ رَبَّهُمَا لَئِنْ آتَيْتَنَا صَالِحاً لَّنَكُونَنَّ مِنَ الشَّاكِرِينَ

7:189 It is He Who created you from a single person, and made his mate of like nature, in order that he might dwell with her (in love). When they are united, she bears a light burden and carries it about (unnoticed). When she grows heavy, they both pray to Allah their Lord, (saying): "If Thou givest us a goodly child, we vow we shall (ever) be grateful."

خَلَقَكُم مِّن نَّفْسٍ وَاحِدَةٍ ثُمَّ جَعَلَ مِنْهَا زَوْجَهَا وَأَنزَلَ لَكُم مِّنْ الْأَنْعَامِ ثَمَانِيَةَ أَزْوَاجٍ يَخْلُقُكُمْ فِي بُطُونِ أُمَّهَاتِكُمْ خَلْقًا مِن بَعْدِ خَلْقٍ فِي ظُلُمَاتٍ ثَلَاثٍ ذَلِكُمُ اللَّهُ رَبُّكُمْ لَهُ الْمُلْكُ لَا إِلَهَ إِلَّا هُوَ فَأَنَّى تُصْرَفُونَ
39:6 He created you (all) from a single person: then created, of like nature, his mate; and he sent down for you eight head of cattle in pairs: He makes you, in the wombs of your mothers, in stages, one after another, in three veils of darkness. such is Allah, your Lord and Cherisher: to Him belongs (all) dominion. There is no god but He: then how are ye turned away (from your true Centre)?


p.s fahd - I doubt goat can read arabic.
But let him wallow in his own delusions...it's his way of protecting his fragile ego.

[Fahd]

haha Alchemist bro i dont know then how can this goat want to arguing about it .
any one when want to arguing about islam and islamic things he should understand arabic and read arabic quran and know what it means in arabic
even if u read it in english tafsir it wont give the same point that it gives in arabic !!
but what about the mr edge ?

[طالب]

This doesn't look like a straw man to me:

That the world is flat is also stated clearly in the Qur'an.

[BarackzaiObama]

we BRAKZAI KANDHARIS are the BEST MUSLIMS.