Poorest countries are the most religious

[Toramana]

Poorest countries are the most religious

A NEW poll confirms that religious belief is a factor in poor economic progress.

The Gallup poll shows that Estonia, the least religious country in the world with a “believer index” of just 14 percent, became one of the world’s fast-growing economies after it gained its independence from the Soviet Union in 1991.

Near neighbour Sweden is the second least religious country, with only 17 percent claiming any form of religious conviction. Other neighboring countries Denmark and Norway are among the least religious countries, including Hong Kong, Japan and France.

The US, according to this report, stands out as an exception from the religion=poverty rule. There, two-thirds of the respondents claimed that religion played a significant role in their lives.

The poll reveals that religion is most important to people in poor countries. Of the 143 countries surveyed, Egypt came top, where 100 per cent of the respondents believe that religion was an important part of their everyday lives.

This is followed by poor countries in Asia and sub-Saharan Africa.

The 11 least religious countries are:

• Estonia 14 percent
• Sweden 17 percent
• Denmark 18 percent
• Norway 20 percent
• Czech Republic 21 percent
• Azerbaijan 21 percent
• Hong Kong 22 percent
• Japan 25 percent
• France 25 per cent
• Mongolia 27 percent
• Belarus 27 percent

The 11 most religious countries are:

• Egypt 100 percent
• Bangladesh 99 percent
• Sri Lanka 98 percent
• Indonesia 98 percent
• Congo 98 percent
• Sierra Leone 98 percent
• Malawi 98 percent
• Senegal 98 percent
• Djibouti 98 percent
• Morocco 98 percent
• United Arab Emirates 98 percent

http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/02/18/...ost-religious/

[کیش]

God gives his favorite a hard time. Its the devils world, to play.

[faye]

they didn't mention australia. we are a fairly unreligous country. malaysia is a religous country that is doing well.

[ScimitarXEdge]

the richest countries are also the most corrupt.

America the wealthiest, acquired it's entire domain from the genocide of almost the entire Native populations.

Britain
France
Holland
Germany


all were countries who's entire wealth based came from exploiting and sapping the resources and oppressing the population list in the "most religious" countries

I think we can see a pattern here; the wealthiest are the most immoral and that religious countries tend to be more moral and hence won't participate in immoral practices to acquire wealth.

[ScimitarXEdge]

God gives his favorite a hard time. Its the devils world, to play.

Not even that; people who tend to have deeper spiritual beliefs tend not to put the conquest of wealth as their primary goal in life.

where as greed driven people always look for conquest of money and resources.

at least in the modern case.

[Toramana]

the richest countries are also the most corrupt.

America the wealthiest, acquired it's entire domain from the genocide of almost the entire Native populations.

Britain
France
Holland
Germany


all were countries who's entire wealth based came from exploiting and sapping the resources and oppressing the population list in the "most religious" countries

I think we can see a pattern here; the wealthiest are the most immoral and that religious countries tend to be more moral and hence won't participate in immoral practices to acquire wealth.

Despite the so-called morality, Muslim societies rank worst everything bad/evil...corruption, political oppression, non-productivity, non-creativity, poor governance, poverty, abuse of human rights, etc.

Still you and your grand-pas prefer to live in an immoral/infidel country like USA ... What about majority of the European countries like Norway, etc. that never colonised other countries but are still very strong in every aspect of the statehood and societal management....

How can your whimsical explanation help Muslims?

It seems extreme Arabized Islamist sentiments have left you utterly de-ranged.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Despite the so-called morality, Muslim societies rank worst everything bad/evil...corruption, political oppression, non-productivity, non-creativity, poor governance, poverty, abuse of human rights, etc.

Still you and your grand-pas prefer to live in an immoral/infidel country like USA ... What about majority of the European countries like Norway, etc. that never colonised other countries but are still very strong in every aspect of the statehood and societal management....

How can your whimsical explanation help Muslims?

It seems extreme Arabized Islamist sentiments have left you utterly de-ranged.

My grandfather lived in Afghanistan; I was born here.

at least I don't claim to be raised in Pashtunkhwah when I was raised in Canada doing chaploosi to farangyan. Regardless most of us EVEN YOU are here because we've had this situation imposed on us so capitalist order compels dependency on it's institutions. These are the outside forces outside of our immediate control. It's all tied to European Imperialism (this is also how I know Arab imperialism is mythological), we're all displaced because of it's corruption. If there was no European Imperialism, how would we end up here?

This is not proof of the benefit of benefit of Infidel countries; our presence here is proof of why they're centrally corrupt; we're here as a result of the corruption they engage in globally; just look at the destruction they did to the global environment.

It's true corruption and immorality exists everywhere; but it's not "accepted" everywhere, but look at this schematic. In "Wealthy" societies, prostitution, is deemed a normal part of life and is given legal sanction. Holland for example has open brothels, rather than trying to change the character of society to not indulge in these things, they simply encourage it.Now Prostitution exists in even Muslim countries but it's not "accepted" there; it's underground, because of the morality; you can argue that repressing something leads to people to do it more, but that's a juvenile and very unsupported sociological claim, people are only driven to do things if and only if they're deprived of their natural needs or if it's openly encouraged.

Corruption exists in Muslim countries, but it's something IMPOSED on them, perfect example the karzai regime, the Taliban, Alqaeda, all creations of the Corrupt Societies, these things are in contradiction to the values of the society. Where as in America, collecting interest from Banking and exploiting people is enshrined in it's laws.

In Truth the least corrupt society's are the ones who live closer to Nature, but they're also the poorest in the corrupt society"s standards.

Now Norway, and Scandinavian countries are wealthy for two reasons, extremely low population, Norway had only a few million people, so they end up with a great deal of disposable income, secondly they have very close relationships with Imperialist countries, like the UK and France and as a result adopted their corrupt practices. This also why Japan is a wealthy country as well, likewise with Germany.

Have you ever read Samuel Huntington's Clash of Civilization thesis?

http://www.amazon.com/Clash-Civilizations-Remaking-World-Order/dp/0684844419

http://www.stetson.edu/artsci/polsci/media/clash.pdf

He actually confirms that the Non-Imperialistic European Nations in Scandinavia, Europe and North America are essentially apart of one Hegemonically Unified block and that after World War I and World War II Europe mutually agreed to conglomerate it's efforts to cooperate with each other in order to maintain this block against Asia and "The East". So Sweden and Norway ends up benefiting from Capitalist Associations; where as other Eastern countries don't. That's why this whole Day-Dream you and Baygham have that trying to embrace their hegemony and way of operations will elevate Pakhtuns, will never work; it wasn't designed to.


how does this help Muslims? Well ask yourself, given all these facts, what should Muslims who DO live in Infidel Lands do to rectify this problem? We have access and information to facilities and information which can break the Western hold on the world and totally change the power structure landscape of the entire world.so that one day it will be the Immoral Irreligious societies that are in poverty and the religious societies who can restore their Noble Stature.

And Toramana, you can try to lay out petty accusations and slander about me; but the fact remains, you have never ever given a logical refutation to anything I've stated. And that's what counts, the Truth, not who YOU THINK it comes from.

pa da khudai wak ta tol tar tala farangyan chaploos kawonkay patay ba kegi

[Wrayun]

The interesting point here is that the Taliban were not as corrupt as the current government in Afghanistan. In fact most Afghans, even though they dislike many of their policies, admired the straightforwardness of their rule.

Another contrast between the listed poor and rich nations by Toramana is the numbers in population as well. Some of those rich countries have less than 10 million people, that's about how many people live in some of the major cities in these poor countries. They are also ethno-centric, and all ethno-centric countries seem to do well, for example the Gulf Arab states, where wealth is concentrated. The major global powers of course have been dependent on global pillaging campaigns for centuries.

This again is a ridiculous statistic done by "free European thinkers", using pseudo science...just like when they claim that Muslims countries are less scientific, a claim of theirs that was exposed by other free thinking atheists.

What people should really ask themselves is...why is that a certain region of the world has accumulated all the wealth, resources, and technological advancement while most of the world is suffering? From South America, Africa, Middle East, and Eastern Asia...are all these people suffering in 3rd world ghettos because of religion? How did many civilizations go instinct, with little or no trace of their existence remains today? Why a certain group of humanoids who came off an island in Europe, is found almost all over the planet occupying many lands? What happened to the indigenous people that lived on those lands?


There was great documentary on this...forgot the name :- (

[ScimitarXEdge]

Zeitgeist?

[Dervaish]

amiran ba zee dozakh la
ghariban ba zee janat la
ka bachee me wogi dee kher de
pa janat ke ba e maze wee akhirat la
da dunya maze kho da shetan dee
na me paise pkar de, na me dunya
Mula rata sama lar khowale da janat da
kha jwand me na de pakar, janat me de pkar
gharib yam, izzat me nishta na de wee
pa janat ba izzatmand yam, daulatmand yam
khalaq wale da shetan khabare aure
Mula warta lar da janat khaei, wale nauree?

[ScimitarXEdge]

I think everyone should read Samuel Huntington's Clash of Civilization's


even though his perspective is Pro-Capitalist/Imperialist Hegemony; he reveals the Truth about their real nature and intentions.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Wrayun I don't know how much you know about the use of Formal and Informal Logic in Debates and Discourse.



Toramana commits a logical fallacy; called "Cum Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc"

Which basically means "Falsely Attributing Correlation as Causation"

The Czech Republic is not religious but has a GDP as follows


GDP (PPP) 2010 estimate
- Total $258,959 billion[3]
- Per capita $24,832[3]

likewise with Romania

GDP (PPP) 2010 estimate
- Total $252.173 billion[3]
- Per capita $11,767[3]

but Iran is higher than both combined

GDP (PPP) 2010 estimate
- Total $858.652 billion[4] (18th)
- Per capita $11,395[4]

In fact if you look most of the countries in the World have secular Governments are poorer than Iran

Iran ranks #30

[Wrayun]

Exactly! Look at the GDPs and you get the picture. Look at Saudi and the Gulf oil states GDPs, lollll...

And, even though the US is a secular country, it is probably one of the most religious states out there. Turn to Fox News, and Bush country!

[Wrayun]

Zeitgeist?

Zeitgeist is good one, but there was one that concentrates specifically on the European exploitation of the world.

I think this is it:

Global poverty did not just happen. It began with military conquest, slavery and colonization that resulted in the seizure of land, minerals and forced labor. Today, the problem persists because of unfair debt, trade and tax policies – in other words, wealthy countries taking advantage of poor, developing countries.

Renowned actor and activist, Martin Sheen, narrates The End of Poverty, a feature-length documentary directed by award-winning director, Philippe Diaz, which explains how today’s financial crisis is a direct consequence of these unchallenged policies that have lasted centuries.

Consider that 20% of the planet’s population uses 80% of its resources and consumes 30% more than the planet can regenerate.

At this rate, to maintain our lifestyle means more and more people will sink below the poverty line. Filmed in the slums of Africa and the barrios of Latin America, The End of Poverty features expert insights from: Nobel prize winners in Economics, Amartya Sen and Joseph Stiglitz; acclaimed authors Susan George, Eric Toussaint, John Perkins, Chalmers Johnson; university professors William Easterly and Michael Watts; government ministers such as Bolivia’s Vice President Alvaro Garcia Linera and the leaders of social movements in Brazil, Venezuela, Kenya and Tanzania.

It is produced by Cinema Libre Studio in collaboration with the Robert Schalkenbach Foundation. Can we really end poverty within our current economic system? Think again.


YouTube - The End of Poverty

[ScimitarXEdge]

well my point is GDP is a very deceptive measurement of anything really.

and yeah that's another thing , how does one define religious here/ Is it based how religious the population is despite official Secularism?

It seems they're measuring by number of religious adherents

Indonesia is ranked #18

GDP (PPP) 2010 estimate
- Total $1.027 trillion[4]
- Per capita $4,379[4]

Turkey is 17

but look at Turkish statistics

GDP (PPP) 2010 estimate
- Total $1.038 trillion[2] (15)
- Per capita $14.090[3]

and look at this

Islam is the dominant religion of Turkey, adhered to by about 97% of the population,[118] a figure that exceeds 99% if secular people of Muslim background are included.[119][120][121]

Which means 97% of Turks are NOT secular minded.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_GDP_(nominal)