By the way which interpretation of Islam is correct?

[Toramana]

Unfortuntely, either you can't understand the settings which we are starting from or are trying to ignore it just to divert attention from some inconvenient aspects of this kufar-islam issue...

assume some X not me...

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I left Islam because a Shia thinks a sunni is kuffar. A Wahabi thinks a Ahmadi is kuffar. Quranists think shia and sunni are both kuffar. What it turns out is that they are all kuffar when viewed by a separate sect. They all claim that they will go to heaven. When I meet a Jew, I hear him telling Muslims won't go to heaven. When you meet the 1billion Hindus they have similar claims. When you meet Christians they will argue in a similar way. Who is Kuffar? Who is not kuffar? I am sure there are sects in Islam that will consider each and every one of you as kuffar. There would even be a sect that would call this site kuffar for allowing me to type this.

As a scientist, It just doesn't make sense to me. All Religion has done is breed hate.

What you have presented is a sad reality of the state of affairs. I admit.

However, did you know that according to the Quran, it is not religious affiliation which grants one the pleasure of God?

[Toramana]

There was a Lahori Mullah with the name Ghulam Ahmad Pervaiz...He wrote a book about the non-authencticity of some Ahadiths...the next week there was a fitwa issued against him by 1000 mullahs declaring him Kafar...Interestingly out of those 1000 mullahs majority had declared each other kafirs...

the same thing is here...

MeemWownoon is a kafir according to Wahabis far more dangerous to Islam than an athiest (pat dushman as they call it) ...and same is true of Qadiani belief about Wahabis or for that matter Shia about Sunnis and so on...

[AgnosticPashtana]

What you have presented is a sad reality of the state of affairs. I admit.

However, did you know that according to the Quran, it is not religious affiliation which grants one the pleasure of God?

Meem, you know have my respect for acknowledging the issue raised. Many people would shamelessly disagree with me and ban me for raising this in a decent manner. I am willing to learn about Islam but Turks think Arab are "fundamentalists". Arabs think Turks are "sold out Muslims" and the circular reasoning continues. I have nothing against Islam, Judaism or Hinduism. I certainly think these are all man made religions to keep law and order. I was on another forum and the minute I registered I was banned because of my user name. Now I am here and I hope I am not banned since I actually like it here.

I also believe the 1 God concept came along after these genius minded innovators who created these religions exhausted the idea of multiple Gods. It's evidently visible today when you visit Pakistan. Ahmadi Mosque in which my innocent relative died was simply because he was around "Kuffars". Wahabis declared holy war on people who claim they are Muslim. If we look at Nigeria they have the same problem, if we look throughout the subcontinent it's the same problem.

Many people are extremely religious because of their upbringing. If you study science and philosophy you will learn that what your parent teaches you at a young age becomes a fact for you and you will have psychological problems if someone tells you it's wrong. That is why telling a Rabbi Judaism is expired makes him want to kill you. Telling the pope his faith is wrong makes him want to kill you. I have no problem going to hell with 4billion and more people. since by many definitions, despite if I remain a Muslim I will be going to hell anyway.

[AgnosticPashtana]

I was in Haiti that is why I was sort of away from this website and over there they all swear they are following the truth and they all think Muslims are going to hell.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Unfortuntely, either you can't understand the settings which we are starting from or are trying to ignore it just to divert attention from some inconvenient aspects of this kufar-islam issue...

assume some X not me...

That is the problem, you assume too much. Re-read my post, it was written sincerely.

The person x entering Islam, is not like person y entering Islam. One gives different approaches to different people.

Let me put it to you this way, if someone does not accept Islam, and they are sincere about it because they don't find Islam correct, according to Islam they will not be punished. How could Allah punish someone whom He Himself has not guided to truth.

Do you see my pattern of logic? That is why I am asking for you to tell me why you left Islam, let us deal with you. If you really want to know which sect is correct then go and do your own research. Who knows, you might be intrigued by Ismailis or even Sufis or perhaps even Wahabis. Who knows. Only your research would dictate that.

However, if you want me to give you an answer, then tell me who am I dealing with. Give me a real example. Don't make up an example, because the thought process is very important, and you can't make up a fictional thought process, it would defeat the purpose of our exercise and render it futile.

I hope you understand my point and understand that I am not dodging the question. My questions are sincere and have merit.

[Baygham]

If this is your reason for leaving Islam then I am sorry. You should have tried to understand the religion for yourself before entertaining the thought of even leaving it.

In a test you would not count on your best friend to cheat, would you? Even if you did, and let us say you failed, would you cut the ties with you friend because he caused you to fail? Of course you would not. Therefore, the onus is on you to study for the test and do your best.

I am saddened to see you leave Islam because of people. But if you wish I can shed light on your questions, if you have any.

Actually that was not my reason, it was just to get a conversation started.

I found the whole thing revolting. And I did not leave Islam, it is not a place to come and go from. I found it inside me so I just spit it out, like the last remains of phlegm stuck in your throat after a bad bout of bronchitis. Mashallah I am feeling much better since.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Meem, you know have my respect for acknowledging the issue raised. Many people would shamelessly disagree with me and ban me for raising this in a decent manner. I am willing to learn about Islam but Turks think Arab are "fundamentalists". Arabs think Turks are "sold out Muslims" and the circular reasoning continues. I have nothing against Islam, Judaism or Hinduism. I certainly think these are all man made religions to keep law and order. I was on another forum and the minute I registered I was banned because of my user name. Now I am here and I hope I am not banned since I actually like it here.

I also believe the 1 God concept came along after these genius minded innovators who created these religions exhausted the idea of multiple Gods. It's evidently visible today when you visit Pakistan. Ahmadi Mosque in which my innocent relative died was simply because he was around "Kuffars". Wahabis declared holy war on people who claim they are Muslim. If we look at Nigeria they have the same problem, if we look throughout the subcontinent it's the same problem.

Many people are extremely religious because of their upbringing. If you study science and philosophy you will learn that what your parent teaches you at a young age becomes a fact for you and you will have psychological problems if someone tells you it's wrong. That is why telling a Rabbi Judaism is expired makes him want to kill you. Telling the pope his faith is wrong makes him want to kill you. I have no problem going to hell with 4billion and more people. since by many definitions, despite if I remain a Muslim I will be going to hell anyway.

Dearest friend, a genius mind is not capable of inventing God. The reason being is that man has only ever invented using nature as an example. God is not visible, therefore, He cannot be invented. The reason why we understand that God exists is because He Himself has revealed Himself to us; not the other way around.

I would love to discuss this with you further if you are interested. I don't want to waste your time if you are not.

[AgnosticPashtana]

How have you reached that conclusion that a mind isn't capable of creating God? Meem, If it wasn't for Arabs right now you would not even have been a Muslim. Arabs by force converted Afghans into Islam. I would love to further discuss this with you and no, you aren't wasting my time. Don't say that again.

That is your definition of God. I am sure a Hindus definition would differ.

[Baygham]

I was in Haiti that is why I was sort of away from this website and over there they all swear they are following the truth and they all think Muslims are going to hell.

Haiti?

Are you addicted to hellish places on earth khore, pakhtunkhwa, haiti, whats going on.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Actually that was not my reason, it was just to get a conversation started.

I found the whole thing revolting. And I did not leave Islam, it is not a place to come and go from. I found it inside me so I just spit it out, like the last remains of phlegm stuck in your throat after a bad bout of bronchitis. Mashallah I am feeling much better since.

You know Baygham, i don't think you are happy. The reason is because you constantly find a reason to mock Islam. If you were happy and satisfied you would have constructive arguments proving Islam wrong. I have always requested you to present why you consider Islam wrong, all you do is mock.

You can say a million times you are happy, but until you don't stop mocking you are not happy.

Moreover, if you are truly happy you left Islam, then you'd be willing to present your arguments against Islam and the Quran, something which you have failed to do.

Again, I am here to discuss with you. I don't mind, but I just request you to be considerate of our feelings. Islam is still very dear to us. Perhaps, in this process you would truly be happy for leaving Islam, but until you stop abusing and mocking Islam it would be very hard to believe you are happy.

[AgnosticPashtana]

Haiti?

Are you addicted to hellish places on earth khore, pakhtunkhwa, haiti, whats going on.

It was for human aid purposes. I like helping poor people even though I am a kaffir and by many religious sects someone immoral. I wasn't there to convert people into Islam or Hinduism but my goal was to help the poor people in Haiti. I would love to visit Afghanistan and Pakistan but in those countries if you claim you are not part of their sect they will kill me.

[Toramana]

Agnostic Pashthana, what a madness...I absolutely agree with one British novelist that you can feel safe around a Christian, a Hindu, a Jew, etc. but not a Muslim if you even slightly express your disbelief in something they believe in...

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

How have you reached that conclusion that a mind isn't capable of creating God? Meem, If it wasn't for Arabs right now you would not even have been a Muslim. Arabs by force converted Afghans into Islam. I would love to further discuss this with you and no, you aren't wasting my time. Don't say that again.

That is your definition of God. I am sure a Hindus definition would differ.

Beloved friend,

in order solidify your stance that Arabs invented God, you would have to prove it from the Quran. You would have to show contradictory verses and verses which have no merit on our daily lives of today. Moreover, you would have to account for why we have a conscience. Also, you have to account for why do we deem the exercise of justice in our daily lives.

I don't want to pose to many question for now, but I think the above should suffice to get the ball rolling.

[Baygham]

Dearest friend, a genius mind is not capable of inventing God. The reason being is that man has only ever invented using nature as an example. God is not visible, therefore, He cannot be invented. The reason why we understand that God exists is because He Himself has revealed Himself to us; not the other way around.

I would love to discuss this with you further if you are interested. I don't want to waste your time if you are not.

I can invent a God right now.

My god is named "kharrrooo" (it was the name of a mean dog that I hated growing up). Kharrooo is a vicious God, he doesnot fool around. He will eat your **** off if you misbehave. Kharrooo lives all around us, he is the ether and the ether is him. The four dimensions of our universe are but just a few dimensions he exists him. Kharrooo cant be seen, smelled, but K (for short) can be feared and is addicted to being worshiped.
K has no brain and neighther does one require one to appreciate what K can do for us.
K is represented on Earth by Baygham.
K demands that you sent 10 dollars every month to the bank account on Baygham.com. If one fails to do so, K himself will come to (remember that biting off of ones ******). K is very humane he loves people even after he bites. K has built a multiplex in the 17th dimensions. You can book a full floor for 100 dollars at Baygham.com with a printed certificate (keep it to be buried or cremated with you as it will be required- K does not keep a database of who is issued what at the multiplex). There are numerous amenities at this resort some taken from the carribean resort Atlantis that an infidel corporation built and K did not like the competition so he had it air lifted to the 17th dimension. Only the most accomplished will be allowed to it so hurry and pay now.

And be kind to your neighbours (if they have the K logo on their door otherwise kill the infidels)