Pashtun Unity

[ComradePashtun]

Where did any one blame Pashtunkhwa Pashtuns collectively? You are just looking for reasons to shift and derail the arguement. We are only blaming Pathans.

[Wrayun]

im not indicating that we have to remove Islam from our conciousness, but rather pashtun unity has to take place at a cultural and social level

it cannot have religious or political aims. it has to be mindful and respectful of islam, but it cannot be a religious or political movement because then you run into obstacles

As I stated in my initial post.

[Wrayun]

Where did any one blame Pashtunkhwa Pashtuns collectively? You are just looking for reasons to shift and derail the arguement. We are only blaming Pathans.

Who are Pathans?

This is what I replied to:

Dust Pashtun unity can only come if Pashtuns of Pakistan refrain from being subservient to Punjab.

[khushal]

i have said it many times. pashtun unity CAN NOT be POLITICAL or RELIGIOUS in the current circumstances

it has to be purely CULTURAL and SOCIAL

once an entire generation of pashtuns on both sides are educated and made self aware of their culture, then they will be politically enlightened enough to seek political unity

The pashtuns on the south side of the border can never get the right education of realizing their traditions and culture with the current curriculum they have. The more they are exposed to that curiculum the less chance there is of unity.

Most of the time unity happens between any people, wheather the have similar ethnicity or language or not, by economic benifits to both sides. If an oil pipeline system is built from the central asia nations of uzekistan and turkmenistan through pashtunland to the arabian sea and build a network of gasoline refineries in southern baluchistan along the coast of the arabian sea. You could have an economically viable pashtun nation that could rival iran and saudi arabia and supply the world with fuel. Oil would be coming from central asia and the gulf to be refined by the pashtun nation and the sold of to the world.

The pashtuns from pakistan has to realize they are better economically and socially off united with their brethrens than with the panjabis.

[ComradePashtun]

Wrayun,

Pathan means sold outs, the co-opted ones as some patriotic PK Pashtun would refer to them. We are on the same page then, brother. I even disagree with that sweeping statement, we need to be specific as to who these Pashtun are in Pakistan as a result of whom we are all suffering and our half of the population is made subservient. You know what, I would choose Mahmood Khan over any frigging Karzai. I even like Asfandyaar Wali Khan, but he doesn't inspire me as much as Achakzai Mashr does.

[ComradePashtun]

I'm not, in fact, I am saying don't blame anyone. I saw blaming of Pakistani Pukhtoons alone, and that is wrong. It's not that easy to stand up to Punjaabis, it's not that clear cut as people make it out to be. As we say, oba pa tere de.

Why not??? Da ba de da makha weeley woo..

Mujha hasi Talal ghareeb dalee ra geer karrey wee haha lol

[Wrayun]

Why not??? Da ba de da makha weeley woo..

Mujha hasi Talal ghareeb dalee ra geer karrey wee haha lol

Because Pukhtoons are emotionally tied to Pakistan, and that is done using religion. Pakistanyat has been incorporated into their minds using Islam and standing against it is equivalent to standing against Islam. Pukhtoons also deal with the average Punjaabi, and other non-Pukhtoon Pakistanis, who they relate to and can see are as underprivileged as any other. Just like an Afghan Pukhtoon will try to sympathize with non-Pukhtoon Afghans even though they have been through hell, the same applies to Pukhtoons of Pakistan.

Pakistan was good enough for many Afghans (and still is for many) to seek refuge in, do business in, buy land and property in, it is good enough for many Pukhtoons of Pakistan who are raised and born there.

Majority of the Pukhtoons of Pukhtoonkhwa are not that politically aware, and those who are come from middle/upper class families who aren't burdened with the average Pukhtoon day to day concern. Which isn't uniting with Afghanistan, or liberating Pukhtoonkhwa, but a constant struggle for food, job, and a roof.

[khushal]

Because Pukhtoons are emotionally tied to Pakistan, and that is done using religion. Pakistanyat has been incorporated into their minds using Islam and standing against it is equivalent to standing against Islam. Pukhtoons also deal with the average Punjaabi, and other non-Pukhtoon Pakistanis, who they relate to and can see are as underprivileged as any other. Just like an Afghan Pukhtoon will try to sympathize with non-Pukhtoon Afghans even though they have been through hell, the same applies to Pukhtoons of Pakistan.

Pakistan was good enough for many Afghans (and still is for many) to seek refuge in, do business in, buy land and property in, it is good enough for many Pukhtoons of Pakistan who are raised and born there.

Majority of the Pukhtoons of Pukhtoonkhwa are not that politically aware, and those who are come from middle/upper class families who aren't burdened with the average Pukhtoon day to day concern. Which isn't uniting with Afghanistan, or liberating Pukhtoonkhwa, but a constant struggle for food, job, and a roof.

Wrayon,

You are right, people dont think about these things when they are struggling with putting food intheir tummies. Just like when you ask an average parsiban about the partition of afghanistan, they will laugh and say how will the partition put food in my tummy, same with many pashtuns in pahktunkwa, their main concern is their economic well being, that is why I am saying that if you convince ordinary people of the economic beneift of uniting with your brethrens, then and only then will they have the passion to work for the goal of having a better future.

[ijaz yousafzai]

When Bengalis with 56% majority (Punjabis being 24%) were subservient to Punjab then what was so special about pashtuns not to be subservient?

What are you really suggesting, wrora!
Bengalis were subservient to Punjab's hegemony and they gathered round their Bengali leadership to turn it victorious in the general elections of 1971.West Pakistan, being the exponent of Punjab, did not accept the verdict of the Bengalis, therefore they stood up.India supported them with every imaginable thing and beefed up the movement. They were emancipated by Indian forces to have a free Bangladesh.Such movements require strong links from outside to triumph.
One should not feel shy to admit the harsh fact that Pashtuns of Pashtunkhwa are politically scattered people, divided in various political outfits, which is their greatest malady. However they displayed a sort of unity in the 1946-47 general elections to elect Dr. Khan Sahib's congressite government. They have also rendered sacrifices and offered pitched political battles to oust Firingis to stage Qissa Khwani, Hatikhel and Takkar, and later to defy Pakistani establishment, Babara been another battlefield. When the juncture of their destiny came in 1947, they bycotted the Referendum for inclusion of Pashtunistan in the options of the Referendum, as they were decieved both by the Indian National Congress and the rulers of Afghanistan. Can you imagine the depth of indifference that Afghanistan did not voice even a meak demand for its lost territories on this opportune time as the Parsiban clique did not want it.The Afghan envoy in the UN opposed Pakistan membership on the Pashtun issue but this opposition was mysteriously withdrawn very quickly.Afghanistan literally forgot its lost population due to its political exegencies at home. It even tried to weaken the on-going Pashtun nationalist politics in Pakhtunkhwa. Afghanistan could turn the centre of vigour and virtue for the Pashtuns in deciding their fate, but it feared the disruption of the stalemate at home. How a despotic king could invite politically vigorous, unruly and turbulent people to the fold, who had just turned the table on imperialism at the other side of the Durand. How could the hegemonial Parsiban bureaucracy could afford the more demographic tilt to include educated and more politicized Pashtuns on their side?
I firmly believe that like India in the case of Bengalis, Afghanistan could square its account with the Firingis by openly supporting militarily, the Pashtuns to lead them to the fold but it did not opt deliberately.There are so many reasons for this ploy. It is ridiculous when people on this Forum come with their bizzare, absurd and odd logic that Pashtuns of Pashtunkhwa should break the leash themselves and one fine morning knock at their door , telling them gaspingly, " lo! we are back!".

[khyaal]

What are you really suggesting, wrora!
Bengalis were subservient to Punjab's hegemony and they gathered round their Bengali leadership to turn it victorious in the general elections of 1971.West Pakistan, being the exponent of Punjab, did not accept the verdict of the Bengalis, therefore they stood up.India supported them with every imaginable thing and beefed up the movement. They were emancipated by Indian forces to have a free Bangladesh.Such movements require strong links from outside to triumph.

The reason of Punjab's hegemony obviously lies in its military might which even vetoed Bengal's overwhelming parliamentary majority. But there seems to be something special about Bengali leadership which in my view were very clear about their future agenda which was based on No Compromise with the oppressors. Bengal's leadership, it seems, had conveyed their message to each corner of Bengal and they were armed with a coherent logic for their freedom. India came to their help during the last 18 days of the Bengal's insurgency. In my view internal dynamics in most cases are the determining factors for a decisive struggle for freedom.

One should not feel shy to admit the harsh fact that Pashtuns of Pashtunkhwa are politically scattered people, divided in various political outfits, which is their greatest malady. However they displayed a sort of unity in the 1946-47 general elections to elect Dr. Khan Sahib's congressite government.

I don't know what went wrong but it seems that Khudai Khidmatgaar movement led by Bacha Khan remained mostly concerned about to keep India intact than focusing on winning freedom for Pashtun nation. If you read the book "Facts are Facts" by Abdul Wali Khan carefully you will find just one sentence about our forced separation from Afghanistan for which he held Amir Abdur Rahman as the sole responsible, forgetting about the fact that Amir himself had been brought from exile by the British to work for them.

Wali Khan, in that book, has used most of his energy to prove that Muslim League was British sponsored party which was responsible for the division of India.

They have also rendered sacrifices and offered pitched political battles to oust Firingis to stage Qissa Khwani, Hatikhel and Takkar, and later to defy Pakistani establishment, Babara been another battlefield. When the juncture of their destiny came in 1947, they bycotted the Referendum for inclusion of Pashtunistan in the options of the Referendum, as they were decieved both by the Indian National Congress and the rulers of Afghanistan.

Yes, indeed Pashtun nation had offered great sacrifices but in my view only Pashtun leadership could be held responsible for its lack of vision, not Indian leaders or Afghanistan. Afghanistan though opposed Pakistan's membership but it seems Afghanistan was not militarily that strong to fight this West backed newly created country. Only a strong internal insurgency could change things for us but it didn't happen because Bacha Khan apparently admitted his defeat.

Can you imagine the depth of indifference that Afghanistan did not voice even a meak demand for its lost territories on this opportune time as the Parsiban clique did not want it.

I personally don't believe in any independent Parsiban clique because I can't find even a justification for such a group to exist inside a harmonious afghan society nor there seems an explanation for the existence of such a clique.

The Afghan envoy in the UN opposed Pakistan membership on the Pashtun issue but this opposition was mysteriously withdrawn very quickly./

As I had already told you one of my posts that on 18th of August Bacha Khan himself met with jinnah and thus made a compromise and resorted to retract from Banu Resolution. In such a scenario Afghanistan's stance would mean interference in Pakistani affairs. Hagha "Mudaee Sust, Gawah Chust" wala khabar ba wa.

Afghanistan literally forgot its lost population due to its political exegencies at home. It even tried to weaken the on-going Pashtun nationalist politics in Pakhtunkhwa. Afghanistan could turn the centre of vigour and virtue for the Pashtuns in deciding their fate, but it feared the disruption of the stalemate at home. How a despotic king could invite politically vigorous, unruly and turbulent people to the fold, who had just turned the table on imperialism at the other side of the Durand. How could the hegemonial Parsiban bureaucracy could afford the more demographic tilt to include educated and more politicized Pashtuns on their side?
I firmly believe that like India in the case of Bengalis, Afghanistan could square its account with the Firingis by openly supporting militarily, the Pashtuns to lead them to the fold but it did not opt deliberately.There are so many reasons for this ploy. It is ridiculous when people on this Forum come with their bizzare, absurd and odd logic that Pashtuns of Pashtunkhwa should break the leash themselves and one fine morning knock at their door , telling them gaspingly, " lo! we are back!".

Wali Khan's stand on vital Pashtun's issues like the forced merger of Attock and Mianwali, his refusal to demand for the unification of Southern Pakhtunkhwa (British Balochistan) with NWFP and letting it merged with Qalat States Union, his willingness to declare Urdu as the official language of NWFP are things which makes him s major suspect. I think internal factors and Pashtuns' later leadership of NWFP actually spoiled the whole freedom movement.

I forgot to mention one other thing. Wasn't it very strange that Dr.Khan Saib, who had remained the twice Chief Minister of NWFP accepted to become the Chief Minister of West Pakistan after the promulgation of One Unit ? How this could be explained looking at the great sacrifices pashtuns offered for their freedom against the British sponsored Punjabis?

[Feroza_Banu]

Pashtoon unity is a dream that will PROBABLY come true a couple of hundred years from now. and only when little by little pashtoons realize who their true enemy is. Majority of pashtoons on both side of the border are severely brainwashed:

1. pashtoons of pashtoonkhwa are brainwashed by pakistani system and government. Let me be honest about something. I have not seen many pashtoonkhwa pashtoons displeased with being part of Pakistan. Most of them consider pakistan their home. They express this patriotism on 14th of August when they light up their house with lightings and use fireworks to celebrate Pakistan's independence with other pakistanis. they grown up singing "Paak sar zamin shaad bad..." every day early morning. Their language, their culture, their identity is replaced daily with Urdu. A kid spends 80 percent of his day in school and when 80% of the day he is taught about Pakistan history and the language Urdu, what is left of his own pashtoon identity? I have lived in this country 10 years so i know how majority of pashtoons feel about pakistan. the dark reality is that most of them don't even feel opressed; when you have wholeheartedly accepted a government as your own, accepted an army as your own country's army, accepted a language as your own national lanaguage, then how can you see this government, this army and this language as a threat to your identity? why will you feel oppressed? Most pashtoons in pashtoonkhwa side with army and ISI because they honor their fight against terrorism; because they see extremism as a threat to their society. many pashtoons that side with taliban equal the pashtoons that like to lead a liberal life, to have a right to send their kids to school, to run a cd/dvd shop... to be able to enjoy a nice 'mujra' when they desire to... so they side with paki army. they are unable to see that on one side pakistan is creating and funding this extremism in pashtoonkhwa and on the other side it is fighting to finish it. in the process of all of this, who dies? a pashtoon! this is what they fail to see!

when they have accepted the enemy as their own, there is no hope. really. and this is a complete BS if anyone ever claims that afghan history or anything about afghanistan is taught in any school in pakistan.

2. The pashtoons of afghanistan are brainwashed based on their religion Islam. Under the banner of Islam every muslim is another muslim's brother. they are blinded so badly that they don't see their true enemy either. Most of the afghans that sided with taliban of pakistan was based on the Islamic brotherhood. They don't realize that this Islamic brotherhood is a Facade created by pakistan and saudi arabia to use as a tactic to gain more and more support from afghans and to further their agenda in afghanistan.

Pashtoons are naive, very sentimental and very clean hearted. they see everyone else in their own mirror. they have a tendency to trust others very easily. they lack education, ability to analyze situation more critically, and they are brainwashed very easily. u speak a few nice words to a pashtoon, he will think u mean it!... thas because pashtoons themselves don't say what they dont mean!

[ComradePashtun]

200 YEARS! Lord. I think in 200 years... I don't even want to say it.

Ijaz, Out of respect for other Pashtunkhwa Pashtuns I will just allow you.. there was no Farsiwan clique then and nor did Farsiwans have a say! Infact Farsiwans used to equally line up in Kabul in the famous Pashtunistan square and would do attan for Bacha Khan every time he visited Kabul and the same Farsiwans would give him a pompous welcome and feed him Qabili Palaw. You are simply sust and beghairat, easily overwhelmed and you lack strong Pashtun culture.

[ijaz yousafzai]

200 YEARS! Lord. I think in 200 years... I don't even want to say it.

Ijaz, Out of respect for other Pashtunkhwa Pashtuns I will just allow you.. there was no Farsiwan clique then and nor did Farsiwans have a say! Infact Farsiwans used to equally line up in Kabul in the famous Pashtunistan square and would do attan for Bacha Khan every time he visited Kabul and the same Farsiwans would give him a pompous welcome and feed him Qabili Palaw. You are simply sust and beghairat, easily overwhelmed and you lack strong Pashtun culture.

A foul mouth depicts the true background of a person. Either you are an impersonator using pashtun nick, or your parents miserably failed to teach you Pashtun traits.
ADMIN should take note of the persons polluting the cardial environment here. I will not fall down to your level, mr. comrade!

[tor_khan]

Many (most?) users on this forum are nationals of far away countries but they have a very important role which I liken in many ways to the millions of Jews who live outside Israel. The Jewish diaspora - many who are not even born in the middle east - are the ones that fight to protect Israel's interests, through politics, media, finance, cultural programmes etc. and in turn a strong Israel reaffirms their identity.

So, for me it has always been simple. We need a strong, healthy, progressive Afghanistan that can one day radiate outwards and be inclusive of the land that includes Pashtoonkhwa.

The Jews tell stories of being banished out of their lands, let down by their rulers and having survived expulsion, rejection and extermination (and isn't this similar to our modern story?) And yet still - wherever they are they look back to Israel, and draw their strength from this. Like Israel for the Jews, Pashtoons need to see the value of Afghanistan and what it means to them. On a moral, political, emotional and cultural level - however you look at it, Afghanistan is mother and father to all Pashtoons. We should never forget.

It is this message needs to be carried, and slowly when Afghanistan is built up, watch the Pashtoons of Pashtoonkhwa turn their heads, renew their ties and invest in their own cultural renaissance. Watch people campaign to remove borders, see Afghanistan grow stronger and we have set the groundwork for the unity that will make us the formidable people that is not just the stuff of past legends, but the stuff of a shared and peaceful future.

We should drop the blame game -and the futile discussions on who is/isn't Pashtoon - there is much more to us than tracing our paternal line back to a common ancestor. We need to put some aspects of tribalism and snobbery behind us and have a long term vision. In the immediate term, what we need is a period of building up a strong Afghanistan, where yes, Pashtoons are fully represented and active in all spheres. I believe that this begins, here, right now, today.

[Feroza_Banu]

Many (most?) users on this forum are nationals of far away countries but they have a very important role which I liken in many ways to the millions of Jews who live outside Israel. The Jewish diaspora - many who are not even born in the middle east - are the ones that fight to protect Israel's interests, through politics, media, finance, cultural programmes etc. and in turn a strong Israel reaffirms their identity.

So, for me it has always been simple. We need a strong, healthy, progressive Afghanistan that can one day radiate outwards and be inclusive of the land that includes Pashtoonkhwa.

The Jews tell stories of being banished out of their lands, let down by their rulers and having survived expulsion, rejection and extermination (and isn't this similar to our modern story?) And yet still - wherever they are they look back to Israel, and draw their strength from this. Like Israel for the Jews, Pashtoons need to see the value of Afghanistan and what it means to them. On a moral, political, emotional and cultural level - however you look at it, Afghanistan is mother and father to all Pashtoons. We should never forget.

It is this message needs to be carried, and slowly when Afghanistan is built up, watch the Pashtoons of Pashtoonkhwa turn their heads, renew their ties and invest in their own cultural renaissance. Watch people campaign to remove borders, see Afghanistan grow stronger and we have set the groundwork for the unity that will make us the formidable people that is not just the stuff of past legends, but the stuff of a shared and peaceful future.

We should drop the blame game -and the futile discussions on who is/isn't Pashtoon - there is much more to us than tracing our paternal line back to a common ancestor. We need to put some aspects of tribalism and snobbery behind us and have a long term vision. In the immediate term, what we need is a period of building up a strong Afghanistan, where yes, Pashtoons are fully represented and active in all spheres. I believe that this begins, here, right now, today.

Precious words! more precious than gems. we need more people like u brother.