Pakistan Census 2017 (pashtun Population)

[Razor]

mughals originate outside of india true but they adapted later into indian culture, north indian mulsim culture is heavily influenced by mughals in their later years now please dont tell me north indian muslim culture of bihar, UP, is not actually indian...

Urdu is indian, it originates in india, its spoken mainly in india, and all its history and literature is tied to north india. urdu's base is completely indian with some loanwords added into it from farsi and arabic, that doesnt change what it is. Also keep in mind spoken urdu is mutually intelligible with spoken hindi so apparently hindi is also not indain

islam is just a religion anyone can adopt it, that doent meant all muslims are the same, if you read my posts you will see im complaining about indian muslim culture not indian buddhist culture.

punjab and sindhi culture in indian/desi even if they are a minority in india. punjabi and sindhi culture and language is in the north indian cultural-linguistic sphere even though you guys are probably the most west asia influenced

Mughals BROUGHT their culture to the subcontinent. Please stop with this bs revisionism. Also, Muslims are a minority in North India. so in the context of Pakistani vs Indian culture, your points don't make any sense.

Urdu is Mughal. I dont care for your definition of India because you are just seeking to claim as much as possible without any regard of historical context.
Hindi derived from Urdu and hence has the same Mughal origin.

Punjab and Sindh are Indus Valley cultures and have a lot in common with North Indians, especially due to a shared Mughal heritage. Not sure how you are connecting this region to South India or East India or the Dravidians, so your "Indian/Desi" identity is nonsensical too. The cultural sphere you are talking about is largely Mughal, hence why South and East Indians are very different and probably the real Indians/Desis, until you encounter Tibetan people

[GuruZai]

it seems we Pashtuns will become largest ethnic group of Pakistan if birthrate will continue to drop in Indiclands.

[Samandri]

Mughals BROUGHT their culture to the subcontinent. Please stop with this bs revisionism. Also, Muslims are a minority in North India. so in the context of Pakistani vs Indian culture, your points don't make any sense.

Urdu is Mughal. I dont care for your definition of India because you are just seeking to claim as much as possible without any regard of historical context.
Hindi derived from Urdu and hence has the same Mughal origin.

Punjab and Sindh are Indus Valley cultures and have a lot in common with North Indians, especially due to a shared Mughal heritage. Not sure how you are connecting this region to South India or East India or the Dravidians, so your "Indian/Desi" identity is nonsensical too. The cultural sphere you are talking about is largely Mughal, hence why South and East Indians are very different and probably the real Indians/Desis, until you encounter Tibetan people

Enough with this non-sense. Urdu was just a Farsified version of pre-existing Rekhta/Hindvi/Hindi language. Here is Hindi poetry of Amir Khusru, a 13th century poet ;

[Friends of Baloch]

Exactly what I expected from an Indian who literally has no identity without the Indus or the Mughals.

Punjab and Sindh IS the Indus valley. Your arguments are based on a misnomer. Ganges and South Indians have nothing to do with Indus valley other than the nonsensical use of the name.

Live with it please.

Lol, what a desperate paki! You're the only Indian here.

I am not saying that Punjabis and Sindhis are not related to North Indias, but certain people here are far too eager to dismiss 1000 years of Muslim identity and tag it to the modern nation of India, which makes no sense. Ironically, you are using British borders to define the Muslim identity of the North-West subcontinent, which is different from North India and even more so than South India and Bengal region.

Punjabis and Sindhis dont have 1000 years of 'Muslim identity'. They have 1000 years history of servant identity. Punjab was a majority non-Muslim region until the early 20th century. You can find the records of the demographics surveyed by the British colonial rulers from the 1880s onwards.

Just look at contemporary Punjabi and Sindhi culture and they both reek of Indian customs and traditions and nothing else.

Punjabis arent even a nation anyway, there was no "Punjabi" identity before the British "Raj". Punjabis are mostly converted Hindu 'untouchables' and 'low castes' like the Jats, Cheemas, Chuhras, Gujjars, Lohars, Arains, Awans etc these are all Hindu peoples that are not unique or exclusive to Pakiland but exist all over 'Hindustan', which you are just an extension of. That's who you pakis really are, just a bunch of Jats and Dalits etc

Punjabi language is a Dalit dialiect that is more than two-thirds the same as Hindi/Urdu, just a much more inferior version of it, which Punjabis themselves admit and which is why in Pakiland Punjabis choose Urdu over their own mother tongue.

Punjabis are pure Hindus, in fact, it is the Indians from your so called "Indus region" (lol) that were first Indians to have been labelled "Hindus" by foriengers.

Sindh and Punjab are like a Hindus 'paradise. Full of Hindu and Sikh heritage and a bastion of the 'Dalits'.

This is the reason why you pakis are so deeply ashamed of your ancestors and Indian identity and culture, because you belong to the most historically humiliated and downtrodden of Indians and all of the foreign invaders that invaded and conquered Bundjab always had nasty and insulting things to say about your people. Most, if not all of which they said is actually true about 'Punjabis'

[Razor]

Lol, what a desperate paki! You're the only Indian here.



Punjabis and Sindhis dont have 1000 years of 'Muslim identity'. They have 1000 years history of servant identity. Punjab was a majority non-Muslim region until the early 20th century. You can find the records of the demographics surveyed by the British colonial rulers from the 1880s onwards.

Just look at contemporary Punjabi and Sindhi culture and they both reek of Indian customs and traditions and nothing else.

Punjabis arent even a nation anyway, there was no "Punjabi" identity before the British "Raj". Punjabis are mostly converted Hindu 'untouchables' and 'low castes' like the Jats, Cheemas, Chuhras, Gujjars, Lohars, Arains, Awans etc these are all Hindu peoples that are not unique or exclusive to Pakiland but exist all over 'Hindustan', which you are just an extension of. That's who you pakis really are, just a bunch of Jats and Dalits etc

Punjabi language is a Dalit dialiect that is more than two-thirds the same as Hindi/Urdu, just a much more inferior version of it, which Punjabis themselves admit and which is why in Pakiland Punjabis choose Urdu over their own mother tongue.

Punjabis are pure Hindus, in fact, it is the Indians from your so called "Indus region" (lol) that were first Indians to have been labelled "Hindus" by foriengers.

Sindh and Punjab are like a Hindus 'paradise. Full of Hindu and Sikh heritage and a bastion of the 'Dalits'.

This is the reason why you pakis are so deeply ashamed of your ancestors and Indian identity and culture, because you belong to the most historically humiliated and downtrodden of Indians and all of the foreign invaders that invaded and conquered Bundjab always had nasty and insulting things to say about your people. Most, if not all of which they said is actually true about 'Punjabis'

Pakistanis are not ashamed of their Punjabi, Sindhi, Baluchi, Pashtun, Mughal and Indus valley heritage.

Looks like I hit a nerve. Punjab has its own name, identity, language and culture, which is more than I can say for "Hindi speaker" who are entirely defined by Mughals and Brits.

You seem to know a lot about Hinduism and castes. Funny that.

[Markhor]

Lol, what a desperate paki! You're the only Indian here.



Punjabis and Sindhis dont have 1000 years of 'Muslim identity'. They have 1000 years history of servant identity. Punjab was a majority non-Muslim region until the early 20th century. You can find the records of the demographics surveyed by the British colonial rulers from the 1880s onwards.

Just look at contemporary Punjabi and Sindhi culture and they both reek of Indian customs and traditions and nothing else.

Punjabis arent even a nation anyway, there was no "Punjabi" identity before the British "Raj". Punjabis are mostly converted Hindu 'untouchables' and 'low castes' like the Jats, Cheemas, Chuhras, Gujjars, Lohars, Arains, Awans etc these are all Hindu peoples that are not unique or exclusive to Pakiland but exist all over 'Hindustan', which you are just an extension of. That's who you pakis really are, just a bunch of Jats and Dalits etc

Punjabi language is a Dalit dialiect that is more than two-thirds the same as Hindi/Urdu, just a much more inferior version of it, which Punjabis themselves admit and which is why in Pakiland Punjabis choose Urdu over their own mother tongue.

Punjabis are pure Hindus, in fact, it is the Indians from your so called "Indus region" (lol) that were first Indians to have been labelled "Hindus" by foriengers.

Sindh and Punjab are like a Hindus 'paradise. Full of Hindu and Sikh heritage and a bastion of the 'Dalits'.

This is the reason why you pakis are so deeply ashamed of your ancestors and Indian identity and culture, because you belong to the most historically humiliated and downtrodden of Indians and all of the foreign invaders that invaded and conquered Bundjab always had nasty and insulting things to say about your people. Most, if not all of which they said is actually true about 'Punjabis'

People like you can only talk about Skin color and things that happened 1000 years ago because you have achieved nothing in life. Nobody cares what happened 3000 years ago or who is black or white. Grow up retard

[Elias]

Arbitrary and misleading definition of India. So what do Pakistanis have in common with South Indians or East Indians? And how are Afghans oh-so-distant from their Punjabi neighbors?

Your attempts to tie Punjab and Sindh to South India are ridiculous.

Half of Modern India is Dravidian, which is another family altogether. You are far too hung up on the word "Indian" to realise the actual differences.

Wikipedia says 911 Mio out of 1,3 billion people in India are speaking Indo-Aryan Languages and over 170 Mio people do so in Pakistan. Dravidians make lass than 200 Mio. So the only difference between India and Pakistan is the religion. I don't understand why Pakistanis can be so deniable.

[Elias]

Mughals BROUGHT their culture to the subcontinent. Please stop with this bsrevisionism. Also, Muslims are a minority in North India. so in the context of Pakistani vs Indian culture, your points don't make any sense.

Urdu is Mughal. I dont care for your definition of India because you are just seeking to claim as much as possible without any regard of historical context.
Hindi derived from Urdu and hence has the same Mughal origin.

Punjab and Sindh are Indus Valley cultures and have a lot in common with North Indians, especially due to a shared Mughal heritage. Not sure how you are connecting this region to South India or East India or the Dravidians, so your "Indian/Desi" identity is nonsensical too. The cultural sphere you are talking about is largely Mughal, hence why South and East Indians are very different and probably the real Indians/Desis, until you encounter Tibetan people

LOL you and your Pakistani brothers do that all the time just to distance yourself from India.

[Razor]

Wikipedia says 911 Mio out of 1,3 billion people in India are speaking Indo-Aryan Languages and over 170 Mio people do so in Pakistan. Dravidians make lass than 200 Mio. So the only difference between India and Pakistan is the religion. I don't understand why Pakistanis can be so deniable.

What a stupid argument. Wikpedia also says that there are more Pashtun speakers in Pakistan than there are people in Afghanistan, therefore Afghans must be Pakistani right? Listen to yourself.

You are intellectually lazy and/or dishonest. I am being very sincere and recognising the similarities between north Indians and Pakistanis but don't be stupid enough to think it will give you a free hand to spew misinformation.

What you insist on calling "Indian" is actually a Muslim Mughal identity. At no point did Hindus rule over Muslims in the subcontinent in any meaningful way. This Mughal identity was forced upon North Indians and resulted in their culture and language. The North and South India divide is the result. Indian nationalists are erasing this identity and/or rewriting history books with the same arguments as yourself. Its pathetic.

LOL you and your Pakistani brothers do that all the time just to distance yourself from India.

I don't actually. I recognise the similarities with neighbors.
But I do contest the ridiculous usage of the word "Indian" when you are clearly talking about Muslim Mughals, or Indus Valley which are distinct from Indian cultures like Ganges plains, Dravidians and South Indians etc.

But then again, dont Afghans do the same thing with their Punjabi neighbors?

[Elias]

What a stupid argument. Wikpedia also says that there are more Pashtun speakers in Pakistan than there are people in Afghanistan, therefore Afghans must be Pakistani right? Listen to yourself.

You are intellectually lazy and/or dishonest. I am being very sincere and recognising the similarities between north Indians and Pakistanis but don't be stupid enough to think it will give you a free hand to spew misinformation.

What you insist on calling "Indian" is actually a Muslim Mughal identity. At no point did Hindus rule over Muslims in the subcontinent in any meaningful way. This Mughal identity was forced upon North Indians and resulted in their culture and language. The North and South India divide is the result. Indian nationalists are erasing this identity and/or rewriting history books with the same arguments as yourself. Its pathetic.


I don't actually. I recognise the similarities with neighbors.
But I do contest the ridiculous usage of the word "Indian" when you are clearly talking about Muslim Mughals, or Indus Valley which are distinct from Indian cultures like Ganges plains, Dravidians and South Indians etc.

But then again, dont Afghans do the same thing with their Punjabi neighbors?

Again a huge chunk of Indians and Pakistanis are Indo-Aryans.
There is a huge difference between Punjabi and Afghans. Be it culturally/linguistically or the mentality.
Hindus ruled over Hindus of east of Indus. The Muslims that ruled India were foreigners and didn't came on mass to have an influence on their culture/genes.
Is the dowry system also a cultural element of Muslim Mughal identity? Was Bhangra the cultural dance of Mughals? How many Mughals came to north India and east Pakistan to have an impact on the demographics and culture? They just brought Architectur and Loan words. By the end they themselves got indianized and not other way round.

[Razor]

Again a huge chunk of Indians and Pakistanis are Indo-Aryans.
There is a huge difference between Punjabi and Afghans. Be it culturally/linguistically or the mentality.
Hindus ruled over Hindus of east of Indus. The Muslims that ruled India were foreigners and didn't came on mass to have an influence on their culture/genes.
Is the dowry system also a cultural element of Muslim Mughal identity? Was Bhangra the cultural dance of Mughals? How many Mughals came to north India and east Pakistan to have an impact on the demographics and culture? They just brought Architectur and Loan words. By the end they themselves got indianized and not other way round.

Indo-Aryan is a linguistic classification, along with Indo-Iranian and Indo-European. Nobody actually identifies themselves along those lines.

Punjabi and Afghans are neighbors, with centuries of Muslim and Mughal shared heritage. Throw in some Persian, British, Greek and Arab empires too.
Who is distancing themselves now????

You are ignorantly dismissing Mughal identity as "Indian", when it was a very distinct Muslim identity. Its pretty offensive to Muslims in general that you cannot acknowledge a great Muslim empire that ruled over the Hindus of India.

I am not the one denying shared heritage of North Indians and Punjabis/Sindhis. But they are sufficiently different, otherwise there would be no such things as Punjabi/Sindhi/Kashmiri.

You are probably confused because North India was subjugated to such an extent that they lost their culture and language as a result, so now you are assuming that they must have been the original Muslim Mughals, which is absurd and contrary to all evidence available.

Compare Mughal identity to others that weren't wiped out: Sikh, Gujarati, Bengali, Tamil and what not. These are nothing like Mughals, and neither were the original North Indians.

[maneatinglizard]

I think we may have hit a new high (low?) in self-denial. "Muslim Mughal" identity? LOL do you even know what Mughal means?

Mughals came into your lands, slaughtered your people, ruled over you, and now you want to associate with "Muslim Mughal" identity? Please grow some self-respect.

[Friends of Baloch]

Pakistanis are not ashamed of their Punjabi, Sindhi, Baluchi, Pashtun, Mughal and Indus valley heritage.

Looks like I hit a nerve. Punjab has its own name, identity, language and culture, which is more than I can say for "Hindi speaker" who are entirely defined by Mughals and Brits.

You seem to know a lot about Hinduism and castes. Funny that.

Punjab doesnt have its "own name". The name is foreign imposed on you. What is the native name that you have for youselves? lol... You dont have one.

You are not "Punjabis" really, you are Jats, Awans, Chuhras, Gujjars, Cheemas, Arains, Lohars etc These are your ancestral and native communal names and identities. All 'untouchable' and 'shudra' Hindu people.

The name "Punjab" was first coined by the Turks, but wasnt fixed and firmly used until the British completed their conquest of India in the mid 19th century and drew the boundaries of what they considered would become "Punjab" province.

The name "Punjab" does not appear once in the original Baburnama for example, because there was no "Punjab" then. He identifies the people there as 'Hindus' and the region simply as 'Hindustan'.

Even Ranjeet Singh and his Sikhs, the people most associated with being "Punjabis", was known as the 'Sikh kingdom of Lahore', not "Punjab".

What you know as "Punjab" today was all coined and defined by the British colonial rule. The borders of "Punjab", the ethnonym "Punjabis", all came about during the British "Raj" over you Dravidians.

[Razor]

I think we may have hit a new high (low?) in self-denial. "Muslim Mughal" identity? LOL do you even know what Mughal means?

Mughals came into your lands, slaughtered your people, ruled over you, and now you want to associate with "Muslim Mughal" identity? Please grow some self-respect.

And moments ago, your friend was arguing that its in fact Indian lol.

You just described history of the entire humanity. Pakistani culture today is based on Mughal culture with regional influences.

Punjab doesnt have its "own name". The name is foreign imposed on you. What is the native name that you have for youselves? lol... You dont have one.

You are not "Punjabis" really, you are Jats, Awans, Chuhras, Gujjars, Cheemas, Arains, Lohars etc These are your ancestral and native communal names and identities. All 'untouchable' and 'shudra' Hindu people.

The name "Punjab" was first coined by the Turks, but wasnt fixed and firmly used until the British completed their conquest of India in the mid 19th century and drew the boundaries of what they considered would become "Punjab" province.

The name "Punjab" does not appear once in the original Baburnama for example, because there was no "Punjab" then. He identifies the people there as 'Hindus' and the region simply as 'Hindustan'.

Even Ranjeet Singh and his Sikhs, the people most associated with being "Punjabis", was known as the 'Sikh kingdom of Lahore', not "Punjab".

What you know as "Punjab" today was all coined and defined by the British colonial rule. The borders of "Punjab", the ethnonym "Punjabis", all came about during the British "Raj" over you Dravidians.

You have mental issues. Seriously.

[Friends of Baloch]

What a stupid argument. Wikpedia also says that there are more Pashtun speakers in Pakistan than there are people in Afghanistan, therefore Afghans must be Pakistani right? Listen to yourself.

You are intellectually lazy and/or dishonest. I am being very sincere and recognising the similarities between north Indians and Pakistanis but don't be stupid enough to think it will give you a free hand to spew misinformation.

What you insist on calling "Indian" is actually a Muslim Mughal identity. At no point did Hindus rule over Muslims in the subcontinent in any meaningful way. This Mughal identity was forced upon North Indians and resulted in their culture and language. The North and South India divide is the result. Indian nationalists are erasing this identity and/or rewriting history books with the same arguments as yourself. Its pathetic.


I don't actually. I recognise the similarities with neighbors.
But I do contest the ridiculous usage of the word "Indian" when you are clearly talking about Muslim Mughals, or Indus Valley which are distinct from Indian cultures like Ganges plains, Dravidians and South Indians etc.

But then again, dont Afghans do the same thing with their Punjabi neighbors?

Indo-Aryan is a linguistic classification, along with Indo-Iranian and Indo-European. Nobody actually identifies themselves along those lines.

Punjabi and Afghans are neighbors, with centuries of Muslim and Mughal shared heritage. Throw in some Persian, British, Greek and Arab empires too.
Who is distancing themselves now????

You are ignorantly dismissing Mughal identity as "Indian", when it was a very distinct Muslim identity. Its pretty offensive to Muslims in general that you cannot acknowledge a great Muslim empire that ruled over the Hindus of India.

I am not the one denying shared heritage of North Indians and Punjabis/Sindhis. But they are sufficiently different, otherwise there would be no such things as Punjabi/Sindhi/Kashmiri.

You are probably confused because North India was subjugated to such an extent that they lost their culture and language as a result, so now you are assuming that they must have been the original Muslim Mughals, which is absurd and contrary to all evidence available.

Compare Mughal identity to others that weren't wiped out: Sikh, Gujarati, Bengali, Tamil and what not. These are nothing like Mughals, and neither were the original North Indians.

Afghans dont have anything to do with so called "Mughal identity" you fool, and neither do you. Mughal identity was limited to them, a few thousand foreigners ruling the natives of Hindustan like you.

Afghan identity, language, culture, traditions, leaders etc is all completely separate from Mughals who were just a tiny number of Turkic invaders of the Indian subcontinent with a few thousand Persian soldiers and courtesans between the eras of Homayoun and Shah Jahan.

These few thousand Turko-Persian foreigners ruled over millions of native paki servants like you in alliance and colloaboration from the petty Hindu chieftains of western India, the skinny, drug abusing "Rajputs". The interrelationship that dynasty had with their Hindu subjects was so much that Akbar married a Hindu and Jahangir and Shah Jahan both had Hindu mothers (Jahangir also had a Hindu first wife).

Just look at your absurd and bizare fabrications about things you know nothing about. "Mughal identity", "Indus valley identity", Radcliffe line of 1947 identity, lol. What a Jat fool you are.

You are one of those insecure pakis that must think when Christopher Columbus landed in the Carribbean he found the "West Mughals" or the "West pakis", and not the "West Indies" which the Carribbean is also known as, or that Native Americans were originally called "Red Mughals" or "Red pakis" and not "Red Indians", etc etc etc It is all an error and mistake of history, what they were really looking for was another route to "Indus valey" or "Pakliand" and not India when Europeans first voyaged west across the Atlantic! Calling the Native Americans 'Red Indians' from the 15th century to 20th century was a mistake, they should have been called the 'Red pakis' because India never existed according to 60 year old paki school books!

It is clear from the stupid beliefs you have that you are ignorant and uneducated on history, or you are just another paki inferiority complex driven liar that is either scared to study history because you know it will utterly demolish the false beliefs you have or like a typical paki weakling you simply just do not have the mental acumen to sit down and read some books from start to finish and digest what is you are learning.