Pakistan Census 2017 (pashtun Population)

[maneatinglizard]

How did you find those quotes. Have you actually read the Babarnama?

I was reading through the part about Hindustan. Here's the PDF I used:

http://www.rarebooksocietyofindia.org/book_archive/196174216674_10154956199821675.pdf

That's the second part of the book. The first part is here:

The Babur-nama in English (Memoirs of Babur) : Babur, Emperor of Hindustan, 1483-153 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

[maneatinglizard]

Not sure the the f*** you are quoting my messages when you seem completely mentally incapable of understanding a single god damn thing that I am writing. We get it. You hate Pakistanis. Move on bro. I am not asking for your valuable attention.

I didn't quote you. Seems like the truth hit you so hard you've become ill and are hallucinating or something.

Anyway, anyone else getting Karachi vibes from this Razor fellow? I think this might be his new account, based on the following:

1. Both are super ignorant and completely ignore any challenge to corroborate anything they say.
2. Both overuse "idiot" and "retard" as insults (Karachi later spammed "Bacha Bazi" and "barbarian" but Razor is still in the "trying to get along" phase it seems).
3. Both infuse absolutely everything they say with a ton of self-hate and denial. Karachi famously pretends to be everything except what he actually is on multiple forums. From Pashtun, to "Dardic," to Turkic. On another forum he pretended to have some kind of connection to Timur, just as he is now pretending an association with the Mughals.
4. He accused Friends of Baloch of being an Indian, which a lot of Indians here do, but anyone new to this forum would never think that when almost all he does is bash Punjabis and Indians. You'd have to have some familiarity with the users of this forum to come up with that accusation.
5. Both are thin-skinned. Razor first came here acting all diplomatic, but as can be seen from his last post, it's pretty clear I'm triggering him hardcore.

[Razor]

I didn't quote you. Seems like the truth hit you so hard you've become ill and are hallucinating or something.

Anyway, anyone else getting Karachi vibes from this Razor fellow? I think this might be his new account, based on the following:

1. Both are super ignorant and completely ignore any challenge to corroborate anything they say.
2. Both overuse "idiot" and "retard" as insults (Karachi later spammed "Bacha Bazi" and "barbarian" but Razor is still in the "trying to get along" phase it seems).
3. Both infuse absolutely everything they say with a ton of self-hate and denial. Karachi famously pretends to be everything except what he actually is on multiple forums. From Pashtun, to "Dardic," to Turkic. On another forum he pretended to have some kind of connection to Timur, just as he is now pretending an association with the Mughals.
4. He accused Friends of Baloch of being an Indian, which a lot of Indians here do, but anyone new to this forum would never think that when almost all he does is bash Punjabis and Indians. You'd have to have some familiarity with the users of this forum to come up with that accusation.
5. Both are thin-skinned. Razor first came here acting all diplomatic, but as can be seen from his last post, it's pretty clear I'm triggering him hardcore.

Wow, an edgelord and now a psycho-analyst.

You are the one entering a Pakistan topic pretending to know everything about Pakistani people, culture and history by calling us Indians over and over again like a, I haven't used this word yet but now that you mention it, yes a complete and utter "retard".
Your conduct in this thread so far has been very very "retarded" indeed. No surprise that someone else would call you this too.

This is my first account in this forum. Have an admin check it if you want.

Friendsofbaloch however is slightly edgier than you. Calling us Indians is not even original. He appears to have a PhD in Dalitology to aid his obnoxiousness. Quite a unique approach I must say.

[Samandri]

I think Razor is a visitor from defence.pk, a platform representing the views of Pakistani nationalists. Markhor is also a visitor from defence.pk. I am member of that forum for years and i attest that views of Razors are shared by almost all of the Pakistani nationalists. If you connect them with India and Indians, it deeply offends them. You even might get an infraction or ban from moderators if you are an Afghan or Pashtun and use the word "Hindi" or indic for them in whatever context. They give the reasons "racism" and "attacking a community" for it. So you get an idea how much receptive are they towards their own Indian-ness.

[Markhor]

I think Razor is a visitor from defence.pk, a platform representing the views of Pakistani nationalists. Markhor is also a visitor from defence.pk. I am member of that forum for years and i attest that views of Razors are shared by almost all of the Pakistani nationalists. If you connect them with India and Indians, it deeply offends them. You even might get an infraction or ban from moderators if you are an Afghan or Pashtun and use the word "Hindi" or indic for them in whatever context. They give the reasons "racism" and "attacking a community" for it. So you get an idea how much receptive are they towards their own Indian-ness.

Why do you lose sleep over that forum?

[Razor]

I think Razor is a visitor from defence.pk, a platform representing the views of Pakistani nationalists. Markhor is also a visitor from defence.pk. I am member of that forum for years and i attest that views of Razors are shared by almost all of the Pakistani nationalists. If you connect them with India and Indians, it deeply offends them. You even might get an infraction or ban from moderators if you are an Afghan or Pashtun and use the word "Hindi" or indic for them in whatever context. They give the reasons "racism" and "attacking a community" for it. So you get an idea how much receptive are they towards their own Indian-ness.

Samandri, I will give you the benefit of the doubt, but please reread my posts where I very clearly accept the similarities with North Indians and sharing various cultural aspects. I couldn't possibly have been more clear, so I feel that you are being very insincere with your claim. Yes, like a lot of Pakistanis, we disagree with the terming "Indian" of distinct identities that otherwise have ignorantly or never been known as such. I mean, how do you yourself feel about Gandhara being labelled Indian?

I am a lurker on defence.pk and same on these forums, but I rarely register anywhere. I was just puzzled by the ridiculous and extreme views of some members that I usually only see on extremist Indian forums. I guarantee you that people like friendsofbaloch and maneatinglizard would be banned straight away for promoting their overthetop racist views (not to mention unislamic) towards anyone on most forums.

[Traveller]

This is completely untrue. Pashto is more respected and known today in Afghanistan than it has been as far back as Pashto history goes.

You implied here that Pashto wasn't as respected in Afghanistan before which actually brings me to a question I've had. I have come across Afghan Pashtuns who spoke Farsi instead of Pashto because their parents didn't teach them Pashto. This also squared with things that I heard about Farsi being considered an "elite" language in Afghanistan. I have also noticed that the Afghan Pashtun elite tend to be very persianized. Can you enlighten me about this phenomenon?

[Charsi Malang]

You implied here that Pashto wasn't as respected in Afghanistan before which actually brings me to a question I've had. I have come across Afghan Pashtuns who spoke Pashto instead of Farsi because their parents did!'t teach them Pashto. This also squared with things that I heard about Farsi being considered an "elite" language in Afghanistan. I have also noticed that the Afghan Pashtun elite tend to be very persianized. Can you enlighten me about this phenomenon?

Very similar to the Pashtuns in Pakistan. You'll find the elite acting like Punjabis and karachiwals. They will adopt their dress, mannerisms, speech and demeanour.

Although I do believe that Pashto in Afghanistan carries much more credibility as compared to the status of Pashto in Pakistan.

When one ethnic group is economically ahead, then you will automatically find other ethnicities emulating the dominant group especially as they move up the social and economic ladders.

[Charsi Malang]

Samandri, I will give you the benefit of the doubt, but please reread my posts where I very clearly accept the similarities with North Indians and sharing various cultural aspects. I couldn't possibly have been more clear, so I feel that you are being very insincere with your claim. Yes, like a lot of Pakistanis, we disagree with the terming "Indian" of distinct identities that otherwise have ignorantly or never been known as such. I mean, how do you yourself feel about Gandhara being labelled Indian?

I am a lurker on defence.pk and same on these forums, but I rarely register anywhere. I was just puzzled by the ridiculous and extreme views of some members that I usually only see on extremist Indian forums. I guarantee you that people like friendsofbaloch and maneatinglizard would be banned straight away for promoting their overthetop racist views (not to mention unislamic) towards anyone on most forums.

Which distinct identities are you referring to which have never been known as Indian?

[Elias]

Samandri, I will give you the benefit of the doubt, but please reread my posts where I very clearly accept the similarities with North Indians and sharing various cultural aspects. I couldn't possibly have been more clear, so I feel that you are being very insincere with your claim. Yes, like a lot of Pakistanis, we disagree with the terming "Indian" of distinct identities that otherwise have ignorantly or never been known as such. I mean, how do you yourself feel about Gandhara being labelled Indian?

I am a lurker on defence.pk and same on these forums, but I rarely register anywhere. I was just puzzled by the ridiculous and extreme views of some members that I usually only see on extremist Indian forums. I guarantee you that people like friendsofbaloch and maneatinglizard would be banned straight away for promoting their overthetop racist views (not to mention unislamic) towards anyone on most forums.

The majority of us and maneatinglizard weren't racist to you.
If you see the term 'Indian' as a degradation than it might be you the one who is racist.

[Razor]

Which distinct identities are you referring to which have never been known as Indian?

So I did say "ignorantly" too.

India is the mother of all misnomers and has been used to describe tons of regions around the world. The original usage of the name didn't even apply to modern India so this is not an argument about Punjabis/Sindhis not having shared history with North Indians.

Its an argument about the reference to "India" or "Indic" is nonsense in most cases unless you are referring to British India. That's the only example I can think of where you can genuinely call Pakistani people, "Indian".

Otherwise if you are referring to any of the following, then "India/Indic" is nonsense:
(because if you notice, these have their own names already that are distinct)

Mughal culture/empire/architecture/food/language
Indo-Aryan languages
Indus Valley region
Any individual province of Pakistan

[Traveller]

So I did say "ignorantly" too.

India is the mother of all misnomers and has been used to describe tons of regions around the world. The original usage of the name didn't even apply to modern India so this is not an argument about Punjabis/Sindhis not having shared history with North Indians.

Its an argument about the reference to "India" or "Indic" is nonsense in most cases unless you are referring to British India. That's the only example I can think of where you can genuinely call Pakistani people, "Indian".

Otherwise if you are referring to any of the following, then "India/Indic" is nonsense:
(because if you notice, these have their own names already that are distinct)

Mughal culture/empire/architecture/food/language
Indo-Aryan languages
Indus Valley region
Any individual province of Pakistan

Urdu is not a "Mughal"language, neither is it native to Pakistan.
Indo-Aryan languages belong to historical India.
Indus Valley is historically part of Indian civilization.
The western provinces of Pakistan which are not part of historical India aren't even represented in Pakistan's national identity.

[Razor]

For exmaple

According to members here, both (undivided) Punjab/Sindh and Telugu/Tamil areas are "Indian".

Ignoring the British era, what do these have in common that make them "Indian"?

Shared native languages? Nope.
Shared language tree? Nope
Shared religion? Nope
Shared pre-islamic religion? Nope
Shared culture? Nope
Shared ancient history? Nope
Shared Pre-Islamic history? Nope
Shared cuisine? Nope

Shared tectonic plate? OK, yes. But thats just sad.

[Traveller]

For exmaple

According to members here, both (undivided) Punjab/Sindh and Telugu/Tamil areas are "Indian".

Ignoring the British era, what do these have in common that make them "Indian"?

Shared native languages? Nope.
Shared language tree? Nope
Shared religion? Nope
Shared pre-islamic religion? Nope
Shared culture? Nope
Shared ancient history? Nope
Shared Pre-Islamic history? Nope
Shared cuisine? Nope

Shared tectonic plate? OK, yes. But thats just sad.

They're two extremes of the same continuum.

[Razor]

Urdu is not a "Mughal"language, neither is it native to Pakistan.
Indo-Aryan languages belong to historical India.
Indus Valley is historically part of Indian civilization.
The western provinces of Pakistan which are not part of historical India aren't even represented in Pakistan's national identity.

What the hell is "historical India" now? See my points above. It doesnt exist.
Indus valley civilisation has nothing to do with modern India.
Pashtuns are very well represented in Pakistani identity.

I am Shia Mirpuri from Azad Kashmir btw. We are barely represented if you want to nitpick.