Why Afghans hate Pakistan?(a logical discussion)

[~Zarlakhta~]

Zarlakhta Brother is right also..You are right to some extent also..What i am saying we need to settled this Loy Afghanistan issue to eradicate the cause of mistrust between two of us..
There is no reason we both stay enemy to each other as we share every thing common...
Last we are facing it but we are not at receiving end.

Don't know since when Zarlakhta is a brotherly name but ok.

Like Ferdousi said, on perosnal level up until Taliban regime there was no hatred among general Afghan public. Ask any Pashtun elder who's visited Afghanistan before the war, they'll only have praises of hospitality and beauty of the country. My parents used to study in Jalalabad with students from Pakhtunkhwa. There was respect towards every visitor, from any nationality. Even when the Soviet war happened and Afghans fled to Pakistan in mass numbers, there wasn't any hostility towards Pakistan or Pakistanis in general.

But things changed after Taliban regime. People were cursing Pakistan and Pakistanis day in day out. They used to accuse of Pakistanis of forcing barbarism in name of Taliban on us, whilst Taliban won't last a second in Pakistani government which is a fact. I was there in Afghanistan during many regimes, therefore I know which action incurred what reaction.

As for the sources you want to provide, I will wait to see what you've got to share first before we go into more details regarding exact policies or Afghan-Pakistani governments.

[~Zarlakhta~]

I get you.Thanks for posting the links.If you don't mind, which party/group do you support in Afghanistan?

In my honest opinion, Kingdom was the best regime in Afghanistan. We weren't rich, but we were a happy nation. A wise nation and a hospitable nation. Zahir Shah hasn't done everything he could have to allow progress in terms of politics, science, medicine, sports, etc. But in terms of external policies he was spot on.

Presidential ruling proved to be in our worst interest, but if I had to choose any regime after that then it would've been Najibullah. Reasons? A, he believed in equal rights for Afghans of all ethnics and religion. B, he believed in open borders between Afghanistan-Pakistan and was considering Afghan nationality for Pakistani Pashtuns to bring Pashtuns closer culturally and linguistically. And C, most importantly, he was a hardcore education and freedom for all genders fanatic.

Like every other, he also had his flaws. But out of the bunch, he would've been my best bet.

[Charsi Malang]

My dad visited Afghanistan twice in the 1970s, travelling by road from England to our mountains. He stayed in Afghanistan as well and had only nice things to say about it. He said it felt no different to being back home in our kalay. He said he was treated with respect and customary Pashtun manners and hospitality.

He even told us how once his car got stuck somewhere on a cliff or something and a group of labourers wearing black turbans with flat noses helped him out. They wouldn't take money but wanted his Marlboro red cigarettes. I wonder what ethnicity they were ? LOL

I've spent a lot of time with a lot of Afghans and I've been treated with a lot of respect. Even out and about if I happen to bump into Afghans it's the same thing. As soon as they hear Pashto, I'm invited to a cup of tea and a meal- even if they are Farsi speaking. If I'm in an Afghan shop I am always told politely not to worry about paying.

We as a family also do the same and reciprocate the same hospitality and warmth when we come across Afghans. The way we have been brought up is that we were never taught that there was a great divide between lar and bar Pashtuns. To be honest we've never really felt it either.

Pashtun/Afghan manners from individuals of even a half decent background are legendary even today and even in foreign countries.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

but if I had to choose any regime after that then it would've been Najibullah. Reasons?.

I'm sorry, up until now your points have been sensible; but you've lost a major amount of credibility

Please don't trivialize his zalum as simply 'flaws' he was not just flawed but outrightly a tyrant and corrupt and more watanfarosh than even Taliban are. Taliban are Pakistani proxies, but Najib was Russia's puppet who actually gave Russians military authority in Afghanistan. This is well documented and verified by historical consensus, He was complicit in the rapes and massacres of more Afghans than the entire rapes and massacres of the Mujahideen.

Support or endorsing tyrants is never justified whether they come in the form of Theocrats or secularists. Najib is pure garbage. the worst of them all if you go by the lives he's ruined.

[toughpashtun]

In my honest opinion, Kingdom was the best regime in Afghanistan. We weren't rich, but we were a happy nation. A wise nation and a hospitable nation. Zahir Shah hasn't done everything he could have to allow progress in terms of politics, science, medicine, sports, etc. But in terms of external policies he was spot on.

Presidential ruling proved to be in our worst interest, but if I had to choose any regime after that then it would've been Najibullah. Reasons? A, he believed in equal rights for Afghans of all ethnics and religion. B, he believed in open borders between Afghanistan-Pakistan and was considering Afghan nationality for Pakistani Pashtuns to bring Pashtuns closer culturally and linguistically. And C, most importantly, he was a hardcore education and freedom for all genders fanatic.

Like every other, he also had his flaws. But out of the bunch, he would've been my best bet.

You are entitled to your views.
The three reasons(A,B,C) that you stated for Najibullah seem to be true.I also feel that he was sincere towards Afghanistan in general and Pashtuns in particular according to his own understanding and ideas.
But man, was he a brutal dictator.I mean, the violent suppression of opposition that he (first as head of KHAD and then as president) enforced was unmatched.The killings, torture etc. Not to mention the fact that he was on the side of the Soviets while they were rampaging the country.

Let me mention something that I find funny.By his looks and facial expressions, Najibullah appeared to be a kind and compassionate man.How kind and compassionate he was really, I have no need to elaborate upon.

[toughpashtun]

I'm sorry, up until now your points have been sensible; but you've lost a major amount of credibility

Please don't trivialize his zalum as simply 'flaws' he was not just flawed but outrightly a tyrant and corrupt and more watanfarosh than even Taliban are. Taliban are Pakistani proxies, but Najib was Russia's puppet who actually gave Russians military authority in Afghanistan. This is well documented and verified by historical consensus, He was complicit in the rapes and massacres of more Afghans than the entire rapes and massacres of the Mujahideen.

Support or endorsing tyrants is never justified whether they come in the form of Theocrats or secularists. Najib is pure garbage. the worst of them all if you go by the lives he's ruined.

What you have written about Najibullah is true( at least according to my knowledge and opinion). I have no love lost for him.
However I must add that Zarlakhta is not alone in having support for Najibullah.A large number of Afghans share similar feelings.

[toughpashtun]

My dad visited Afghanistan twice in the 1970s, travelling by road from England to our mountains. He stayed in Afghanistan as well and had only nice things to say about it. He said it felt no different to being back home in our kalay. He said he was treated with respect and customary Pashtun manners and hospitality.

He even told us how once his car got stuck somewhere on a cliff or something and a group of labourers wearing black turbans with flat noses helped him out. They wouldn't take money but wanted his Marlboro red cigarettes. I wonder what ethnicity they were ? LOL

I've spent a lot of time with a lot of Afghans and I've been treated with a lot of respect. Even out and about if I happen to bump into Afghans it's the same thing. As soon as they hear Pashto, I'm invited to a cup of tea and a meal- even if they are Farsi speaking. If I'm in an Afghan shop I am always told politely not to worry about paying.

We as a family also do the same and reciprocate the same hospitality and warmth when we come across Afghans. The way we have been brought up is that we were never taught that there was a great divide between lar and bar Pashtuns. To be honest we've never really felt it either.

Pashtun/Afghan manners from individuals of even a half decent background are legendary even today and even in foreign countries.

No matter what differences we Pakistanis have with Afghans(unfortunately) , on a personal level we must make an effort to behave in a decent and courteous manner.It is sad to see the hate rising between the Pashtuns of both countries , especially in the last few years.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

What you have written about Najibullah is true( at least according to my knowledge and opinion). I have no love lost for him.
However I must add that Zarlakhta is not alone in having support for Najibullah.A large number of Afghans share similar feelings.

Oh I know, this is why we'll never get anywhere. We're ruled by demagogues and not reason.

[toughpashtun]

Don't know since when Zarlakhta is a brotherly name but ok.

Like Ferdousi said, on perosnal level up until Taliban regime there was no hatred among general Afghan public. Ask any Pashtun elder who's visited Afghanistan before the war, they'll only have praises of hospitality and beauty of the country. My parents used to study in Jalalabad with students from Pakhtunkhwa. There was respect towards every visitor, from any nationality. Even when the Soviet war happened and Afghans fled to Pakistan in mass numbers, there wasn't any hostility towards Pakistan or Pakistanis in general.

But things changed after Taliban regime. People were cursing Pakistan and Pakistanis day in day out. They used to accuse of Pakistanis of forcing barbarism in name of Taliban on us, whilst Taliban won't last a second in Pakistani government which is a fact. I was there in Afghanistan during many regimes, therefore I know which action incurred what reaction.

As for the sources you want to provide, I will wait to see what you've got to share first before we go into more details regarding exact policies or Afghan-Pakistani governments.

You have narrated the Afghan perspective.As far as Pakistani Pashtuns' hatred for Afghans(and Afghanistan) is concerned, I would say that it is relatively new.It has grown on to this scale only in the last couple of years.The reasons for it are:
1- The media is potraying Afghanistan as a Pakistan-hating, India-loving country.
2- The belief that terrorist attacks that occur in Pakistan are planned and sourced from Afghanistan.
3- Afghan refugees in Pakistan are involved in various criminal activities.
4- Afghans in Pakistan are a burden on local economy and provide competition to local businessmen, servicepeople, labour etc.

[Firdousi]

I'm sorry, up until now your points have been sensible; but you've lost a major amount of credibility

Please don't trivialize his zalum as simply 'flaws' he was not just flawed but outrightly a tyrant and corrupt and more watanfarosh than even Taliban are. Taliban are Pakistani proxies, but Najib was Russia's puppet who actually gave Russians military authority in Afghanistan. This is well documented and verified by historical consensus, He was complicit in the rapes and massacres of more Afghans than the entire rapes and massacres of the Mujahideen.

Support or endorsing tyrants is never justified whether they come in the form of Theocrats or secularists. Najib is pure garbage. the worst of them all if you go by the lives he's ruined.

Najib was a psycho but he know much better how to run a state than our fellow Mujahedeen brothers.

I personally believe Daud Khan was a good ruler. He had some flaws (he was an emotional fool who screwed up our relationship with Pakistan and URSS) but at the end of the day during his rule Afghanistan made some serious progress.

[Karachi]

Pakistanis really haven't done anything to be liked, what good have they ever done

[Porus]

Pakistanis really haven't done anything to be liked, what good have they ever done

Oink oink

[Peacelove]

Pakistanis really haven't done anything to be liked, what good have they ever done

Hahah...We have kicked your uncle altaf out its more then enough..
Are you Indian ? living in PAKSITAN ? When you will go back to your land ?

[Firdousi]

Pakistanis really haven't done anything to be liked, what good have they ever done

You are an Indian yet nobody likes you, bro.

[Karachi]

You are an Indian yet nobody likes you, bro.

That's because I went against muslim extremists, that has nothing to do with being Indian