What do Pakistan Pashtuns look like, Indic or Iranic?

[Forreigner]

Cg

You have wrong assumptions on both accounts. European women have lots of morals , especially traditional Eastern Europeans. Also there are Hungarian Muslims. But Hungarian ladies are not really like Western ladies, they're prettier on average too.

Do Arabs give their daughter to non arab muslim?
How should I as an Indian muslim go about it?
Also how to go about it if I have more wives already but dont have an Arab wife?

Are arabs in the West open to polygamy?

Must have been amazing to live in Muhammads time...you could have your own harem of beautiful women and live the life of a king (being decently wealthy of course).

[Loy Afghanistan]

Typical pure Pashtuns face. White, brown hair (blond in young age, like me) and light eyes either, honey, green or blue.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Cg

Do Arabs give their daughter to non arab muslim?
How should I as an Indian muslim go about it?
Also how to go about it if I have more wives already but dont have an Arab wife?

Are arabs in the West open to polygamy?

Must have been amazing to live in Muhammads time...you could have your own harem of beautiful women and live the life of a king (being decently wealthy of course).

It may not happen much, but it does happen. Yemenis are usually rural and poor, so if you're an Indian Muslim and decent income, it shouldn't be hard.

Also bear in mind the former rulers of Hadramout (South Eastern Yemen( were mixed Arab-Indian origins. Lot's of Omani are Indians who crossed over the Indian ocean for sea trade.


Qu'aiti - Wikipedia

Arabs in the West open to polygamy? Maybe from Gulf Areas? But not Lebanese, Palestinian ladies. surprisingly North Africans are open to it, but they're usually after wealthy men.

I don't think polygamy of Muhammad(saw)'s time was this man living like a king, I think there was lots of hard work and responsibility, not just taking advantage and treating women like servants. The "harem" stuff was more prominent much later during Harun Al Rashid and the "Arabian Nights"

[Elite Pakhtun]

Well my dad's from Moqur in Ghazni province, so I guess that's what I'm basing mine on .....although there are* lots of Hazaras and Tajiks in Ghazni, highly unlikely he's one of them who somehow got blended in with Pashtun tribes.** Moqur is an almost 100% Pashtun district if I'm correct. He did go to school in Ghazni Shar.

The interesting things about Sayyids from our regions is that they're generally not even real Sayyids, they're either Mongol-Turks, in the case of Sayyids of Kunarh or they're Indians who saw it as a great way to con the gullibly religious and get dibs on marrying local brides and social privileges like land and resources* by claiming descent from a holy family. There was genetic studies done and it shows these "Sayyids" have almost entirely South Asian haplotypes and almost ZERO Middle Eastern. In fact the average Pashtun has more Middle Eastern genes than the average "Sayyid" in our region.

Okay. Very interesting. But a couple of posts ago you said Sayyids were Arabs even if they were "Pashto-zuban" for 10+ generations.

I assume the snatching of the Sayyid/Syed name disingenuously happens in Pakistan as well. As does the snatching up of tribal names, or the name "Khan". I'm also assuming there's generally a sizeable number of real Syeds with legitimate family trees. I have a hard time believing there are no real Syeds in Afghanistan either. I don't want to focus on Syeds, as there are others who don't have a tribal name and are ethnically pashtun. It's just an example that I used to prove my point.

But you bring up another good point. You're illustrating the problem with using the name as the sole barometer. Thanks for pointing out how flawed it is. Like you said, the fact remains that people can change their name, but they can't change their ethnicity. Refer to the example of the Afridi to further drive this point of ours home.

All said and done, the purpose of my giving you personal experience was to serve as evidence of why I'm saying that ethnicity of family is what's popularly used to decide whether the person is or isn't Pashtun.

[Elite Pakhtun]

Syeds are never addressed by their first name "Syed"......but by honorific title of "Shah ji" (If some one has name 'Syed Hasan Shah', he is addressed as "Shah ji", not 'Syed')

I don't know the Shah Ji, but it sound very plausible. I'll believe it. I've heard "pir saib" or "Hasan Khan".

The rest depends on the context. An employee or somebody speaking with respect may say something like Shah Ji. But peers, like class fellows, will use their name.

The Syed name is used by his peers in school. It was likely because there were so many Hasans that this name was easier.

not that in every day conversation , the exact origin or caste of Pashto-speakers is brought up ,discussed and analyzed ......things in real life are not like "online forums"........as i mentioned, every Pashto speaker is generally a Pashtun and is considered part of the community, but his roots is highlighted on certain occasions like 'rishta' matters, 'Pashto' matters etc.....in a Pashtun society (rural), Pashtun term is not applied to every Pashto speaker, just like "Khan" and "Malak" terms are not applied to every Pashtun.

Like everywhere, rishta's probably dependant on what position the people are in in the society. Nobody wealthy has to prove their tribe. I'm glad to see if it's not a rich person that at least they're applying some standards.

[Samandri]

I don't know the Shah Ji, but it sound very plausible. I'll believe it. I've heard "pir saib" or "Hasan Khan".

The rest depends on the context. An employee or somebody speaking with respect may say something like Shah Ji. But peers, like class fellows, will use their name.

The Syed name is used by his peers in school.

Sound plausible? its obvious that you have not spent years in Pakistan, perhaps few months or short stays at best...........you are coming across as a person very unaware of the realities and very basic facts about Pahtun society.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Okay. Very interesting. But a couple of posts ago you said Sayyids were Arabs even if they were "Pashto-zuban" for 10+ generations.

What I meant was or what I said was, they're "considered" Arabs, there's no way historical Pashtuns could check if that's true or not.

But they're not actually Pashtun , or considered Pashtun . Perhaps modern generations have accepted them, just like some accept Paracha and such as Pashtuns because they served the tribes. Not sure.

[Elite Pakhtun]

Sound plausible? its obvious that you have not spent years in Pakistan, perhaps few months or short stays at best...........you are coming across as a person very unaware of the realities and very basic facts about Pahtun society.

LOL. Nice try bro. Buy you ignored the Afridi thing, only to talk about Shah Ji, which you pretty clearly invented out of thin air. Darogh jann ma jorrega please.

Besides, like I said, the people weren't called that by their employees, the were called that by class fellows who thought it was easier than middle name. It's not a title, it's the person's name.

[Manzareh]

Actually tests have been done on people from South Asia that claim to be decendants of the prophet pbuh. Turns out they don't have any Arab blood in them at all. Bit embarrassing :-/

[vsdoc]

Actually tests have been done on people from South Asia that claim to be decendants of the prophet pbuh. Turns out they don't have any Arab blood in them at all. Bit embarrassing :-/

Fascinating.

Assuming they tested out Arab, how then were they going to ascertain whether they were actually direct descendants?

Cheers, intrigued Doc

[Elite Pakhtun]

What I meant was or what I said was, they're "considered" Arabs, there's no way historical Pashtuns could check if that's true or not.

But they're not actually Pashtun , or considered Pashtun . Perhaps modern generations have accepted them, just like some accept Paracha and such as Pashtuns because they served the tribes. Not sure.

Iblis, I have to admit, I feel so bad about ****ting on your face, that I had, for a brief moment, considered pretending as if you've somehow made a superior argument.

No Syed that's lived in the region is considered an Arab. You need to trust me on this. Samandari, ta di tu uwaya please... iss ko sumjao yaar. Da ma khabara na mani... ta please di sarra khabaray uka. He's saying things that's making him look terrible. Very unbecoming of a veteran on the site. He thinks Syeds in the region are considered Arabs by everyone else.

You have this fantasy of some exclusive tribal collusion, members only access. In reality it's not that refined, and it's heavily ethnic based. In the example of the Syeds, they are not "accepted" (please accept my friends into the community, sir) on the basis of being Syed/whatever, they are "accepted" on an ethnic, and maybe cultural, basis wherever they are located. People in these regions keep track of their ethnicities (if for some reason you couldn't tell using your eyes).

One background question I have heard is "what village are you (ie your father) from". Generally people don't have reason to be skeptical unless someone looks really different (read: dark skinned, mannerisms, way of speaking, etc).

Let's just forget about Syeds. It's not productive. I was just using 1 example, we don't need to hijack this just to talk about Syeds. There are tons of Pashtuns with last names that don't belong to any specific tribe. Last names like Aziz, Arshad, Raza, Shah, etc. Not to mention ambiguous Khans everywhere.*Many people judge based on ethnicity. This is a fact.

[Elite Pakhtun]

Forreigner has even bested Iblis in this thread. The guy Iblis routinely makes fun of. LOL.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Forreigner has even bested Iblis in this thread. The guy Iblis routinely makes fun of. LOL.

I think you're levying some angst from the time I dispatched your Paki-Nationalism and praised India for their successful scientific enterprise.

Sorry guy, Sayyids are not historically considered Pashtuns; if your little subculture considers them Pashtuns it's probably because you guys are a bit removed from Pashtun society at large. My family are from the Pashtun heartland, we considered Sayyids , otherwise their nasab wouldn't have any prestige.

[Elite Pakhtun]

Sorry guy, Sayyids are not historically considered Pashtuns;

Now you're saying something else entirely. You never made mention of historical, you were talking about the present ie who is considered Pashtun now, not in the past.

Sayyids are not historically pashtuns, correct. But the ones who have settled, mixed with local populace, are very much considered Pashtun. Even if they don't have X-zai attached to their name (simply because they had male progeny).

Again, it's not just about Syeds. There are other examples.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Now you're saying something else entirely. You never made mention of historical, .

I've mentioned historical several times. and more over they were historically never considered Pashtuns, not just historically not Pashtuns.

You don't take losing well and congratulate yourself too much.