What do Pakistan Pashtuns look like, Indic or Iranic?

[Samandri]

Maybe I like it here and have a lot to say.

"Maan na maan main tera mehman".........thats what you are doing Hindu.

[Manzareh]

You are all over the place, Hindu. You dont have to respond to each and every post on this forum, you come across as impatient and desperate Indian.

Indians are a bit erratic bro, they panic a lot and the men have many female traits, our men talk calm and at a resonable tempo, have you heard these guys speak?? Sound like a bunch of chickens superspeeding.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Those guys are all old, and heavily tanned...since when we using old people to determine what a group of people looks like?

Also stop with the mixing BS...as I have said earlier....Pashtuns are no more "mixed" than Japanese, Swedes, or Nigerians are....so saying Pashtuns are "already halfies" is not Correct...halfie of what??? Whatever mixings occured, they occured in pre-historic times, and Pashtuns have a pretty consistent appearence despite the varieties in eyes and hair colors.

Something is considered 'mixed' or 'halfie' when the mixing occurs after the establishment of the group....ei. halfie ha yemeni + Pashtun = halfie....

Dont get mad bro....I am Indian with 1/32 Pathan ancestry, but I dont consider myself Pathan for that reason...I am fully Indian, even though I look like Hritikh Roshan.

They don't look that old to me except for one guy, the rest look about 35-45. Most of them are Tor Jiray (black beards) so they're relatively young. That is what the average adult Pashtun in the rural areas looks like. It's not I that claims Pashtuns are already mixed, it's our current genetic data. Pashtuns are mixtures of Asiatic and Caucasian haplotypes basically. Go look at the data.

Your claim it happened in pre-historic times is false since these genetic shifts happened long after the agricultural revolution and development of civilization; thus cannot classified as pre-history.Every single one of your views contradicts mainstream science. You're basically relying on crackpot views that illiterates and people who follow conspiracy theories believe.

You want so badly for Pashtuns to be some moronic racially insecure StormFront bunch. You have a lot of inferiority issues sir. Fix them. Whatever the case you're not going to change what defines a Pashtun. no matter how many Google Image searches for colored eyes or red hair you do.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Whatever the case at least they don't look like Habshi black magic practitioner Iblees.

You look like a South Asian child molester; only a desi would be proud of that.

[Elite Pakhtun]

Lineage is some thing else.........the same Syeds, when they settle in Punjab or elsewhere, and forget Pashto with generations, they dont identify themselves as of "Pathan" background....but they simply call themselves Syeds, its because they dont have Pashtun shajara. I have come across some Syeds from Sindh, and they have told me that their great grandfather migrated from Buner to Sindh, their family was settled in Buner for centuries and before Buner they were settled in Bukhara and so on.......yet they were identifying themselves as Sindhis and Syeds .

Large number of Syeds migrated to India from Pakhtun belt........none of them are identifying themselves as "Pathans".....a great example from history would be Sayyid dynasty of Delhi......they were from Afghan/Pashtun belt , they heavily patronized Afghans (one of which was Bahlol Lodi's family) but they never identified themselves as Afghans nor they have been considered Afghans by historians......

If the mother is from a community, which is considered inferior by Pashtuns, it does get highlighted in derogatory manner , you will hear remarks "Punjabi zoye" for them........an Afghan noble from Sarwani tribe refused to give his daughter to Sultan Sikander Lodi because the latter's mother was daughter of an Indian Goldsmith.......Niazi chief in nowadays Mianwali refused to give his daughter to Mubarak Khan Sur, the nephew of Sher Shah Sur, because he was a son of Hindu concubine, he was told he is not much much of an Afghan in manners. Things are much changed now but you can get the idea how things were in the past and remain to be so in traditional pashtun areas to great extent....

From what i have observed, the same attitude is not displayed towards marriages with Balochs........Balochs with Pashtun mothers get treated like proper Balochs, and Pashtuns with Baloch mothers get treated like proper Pashtuns........one of the reason for it is that both are tribal people with many common cultural values......

Of course they will stop identifying as an ethnic group that they no longer are. Why would that Syed, after living in Buner for centuries (obviously mixing in with the locals, becoming ethincaly Pakhtun at that time), call themselves Pakhtun if they've been living in Sindh for some time, and as a result have Sindhi blood now? The most they can can claim is they have Pakhtun origins, and that is legitimate. But they can't say they are Pakhtun unless they are still ethnically Pakhtun, i.e. generations still married other ethnic Pakhtuns in Sindh (but judging by your story, such is not the case).

Let me give you an example in my life. I knew a person who is an "Afridi". This person told me themselves that yes their name is "Afridi" but they are essentially mostly Punjabi. They did not at all identify as Pakhtun, didn't know a word of Pakhto, and without sounding too crude, they had that really disgusting dark skin, skinny body i.e. completely Indic. Would you consider them Pakhtun?

All it takes for the last name to be carried is the male progeny.

[Forreigner]

They don't look that old to me except for one guy, the rest look about 35-45. Most of them are Tor Jiray (black beards) so they're relatively young. That is what the average adult Pashtun in the rural areas looks like. It's not I that claims Pashtuns are already mixed, it's our current genetic data. Pashtuns are mixtures of Asiatic and Caucasian haplotypes basically. Go look at the data.

Your claim it happened in pre-historic times is false since these genetic shifts happened long after the agricultural revolution and development of civilization; thus cannot classified as pre-history.Every single one of your views contradicts mainstream science. You're basically relying on crackpot views that illiterates and people who follow conspiracy theories believe.

You want so badly for Pashtuns to be some moronic racially insecure StormFront bunch. You have a lot of inferiority issues sir. Fix them. Whatever the case you're not going to change what defines a Pashtun. no matter how many Google Image searches for colored eyes or red hair you do.

you seem ashamed of your 50% yemeni ancestry...and too much hell bent on proving how pashtun you are. lol


My whole point was, it's stupid to claim racial heritage from father side, as overtime further mixing will result in you no longer even resembling in the slightest manner your original paternal ancestor, at which point it's meaningless to say you are the ethnicity of your original paternal ancestor. that's all my point is/was. the redhead guy and black guy comparison was to illustrate that point, and you foolishly got it completely twisted.

So it doesn't matter if your father line is pasthun...fact of the matter is your 50% yemeni/non pashtun, your mother's side technically matters as much as father...you are a hybrid man...

I don't have inferiority complex btw...perfectly happy to be what I am and look the way I look.

[Elite Pakhtun]

Almost all do, the some may, I've never seen an example of. Some fringe does not define Pashtuns....

Sayyids are not Pashtuns ......and historically Sayyids have never been considered Pashtuns, you can even look this up.

The "some may" was in reference to those claiming to be Pashtun based purely on last name i.e. father's line. As in some may claim that as proof etc.

Sayyids, and other lines, are not particular to any specific ethnic group. They may be Iraqi, Lebanese, Pashtun, Kashmiri, Punjabi, Saudi, Iraqi, etc depending on where they've lived for 3-4+ generations... you get the picture.

If last name X decided between 500-1,000 years ago that he's going to live in Pashtun regions, and his offsprings mix in with the locals, and he has a continuous line of male progeny, are you telling me in 2016 someone with the last name X descended from the hypothetical original character, but who was born in Pashtun regions, to people with the same DNA admixture as those in said regions, will now not be Pashtun? Listen to your own argument for a minute...

[Samandri]

The "some may" was in reference to those claiming to be Pashtun based purely on last name i.e. father's line. As in some may claim that as proof etc.

Sayyids, and other lines, are not particular to any specific ethnic group. They may be Iraqi, Lebanese, Pashtun, Kashmiri, Punjabi, Saudi, Iraqi, etc depending on where they've lived for 3-4+ generations... you get the picture.

If last name X decided between 500-1,000 years ago that he's going to live in Pashtun regions, and his offsprings mix in with the locals, and he has a continuous line of male progeny, are you telling me in 2016 someone with the last name X descended from the hypothetical original character, but who was born in Pashtun regions, to people with the same DNA admixture as those in said regions, will now not be Pashtun? Listen to your own argument for a minute...

Any Pashto speaker is generally referred to as Pashtun...........but within framework of Pakhtun society, "Pashtun" means the one with Pashtun lineage (belonging to four great tribal confederations)......for example Gibaris speak Pashto, look exactly like Pashtuns but they are not considered Pashtuns. Take the example of the Farmulis, who were from Pashtun belt, looked like Pashtuns/Afghans, aligned themselves with the interests of Afghans and styled themselves as "Afghans"......but on occasions they were reminded that they are "Shaikhzadas" , not true Afghans . The Farmulis | History of Pashtuns د پښتنو تاريخ

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

you seem ashamed of your 50% yemeni ancestry...and too much hell bent on proving how pashtun you are. lol


My whole point was, it's stupid to claim racial heritage from father side, as overtime further mixing will result in you no longer even resembling in the slightest manner your original paternal ancestor, at which point it's meaningless to say you are the ethnicity of your original paternal ancestor. that's all my point is/was. the redhead guy and black guy comparison was to illustrate that point, and you foolishly got it completely twisted.

So it doesn't matter if your father line is pasthun...fact of the matter is your 50% yemeni/non pashtun, your mother's side technically matters as much as father...you are a hybrid man...

I don't have inferiority complex btw...perfectly happy to be what I am and look the way I look.

Need I remind you that it is you who is on a Pashtun site because you once saw a Pashtun with sparkling green eyes and from feeling bad about being Desi gravitated to us. So this shame concept is just projection of your inferiority complex. Neither group is anything to be ashamed of, Pashtuns conquered you and Yemenis are the reason you're Muslim today.

I'm just reminding you of reality, Pashtuns define themselves by their father, We're not a feminized culture like Desi that factors maternal ancestry in ethnic identity. This is for girlie men; which makes sense because in your picture you look girlie, so I'm not surprised you adopted this Western feminist interpretation of ancestry. You're a beta, not alpha.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

The "some may" was in reference to those claiming to be Pashtun based purely on last name i.e. father's line. As in some may claim that as proof etc.

Sayyids, and other lines, are not particular to any specific ethnic group. They may be Iraqi, Lebanese, Pashtun, Kashmiri, Punjabi, Saudi, Iraqi, etc depending on where they've lived for 3-4+ generations... you get the picture.

..

Well it may get murky down the line; but if someone correctly knows their lineage and can legitimately trace ti a patriarchal line then they are hereditarily Pashtun. Most Pashtun genealogies don't have mothers with too many degrees removed from Pashtun. But I do understand what you mean in a sense because we get a lot of these South Asians wanting to have some connection to Pashtuns based on at best "stories" of Pashtun ancestry, like a lot of Bangladeshis try to pull the "Sher Shah went to Bengal, we're his descendants" angle, but it's not hard to see through that. Most of the time mixtures will be one or two generations. There's also an issue of hamsayas people historically subjugated by Pashtuns "adopting" Pashto names on account they were in vicinity of a Pashtun clan; this is like African Americans who have last names of their former slave owners. These people are easy to weed out.

Sayyids we always considered Arabs even if they are Pashto-zuban for 10 generations.

[Forreigner]

Need I remind you that it is you who is on a Pashtun site because you once saw a Pashtun with sparkling green eyes and from feeling bad about being Desi gravitated to us. So this shame concept is just projection of your inferiority complex. Neither group is anything to be ashamed of, Pashtuns conquered you and Yemenis are the reason you're Muslim today.

I'm just reminding you of reality, Pashtuns define themselves by their father, We're not a feminized culture like Desi that factors maternal ancestry in ethnic identity. This is for girlie men; which makes sense because in your picture you look girlie, so I'm not surprised you adopted this Western feminist interpretation of ancestry. You're a beta, not alpha.

Someone is triggered

Father lineage doesn't matter, if the descendant at some point no longer posses characteristics of paternal ancestor.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Someone is triggered

A half Nigerian a half Pashtun is not same as a full Pashtun, and probably won't even look like a Pashtun, and won't be considered Pashtun by full Pashtuns, father lineage won't matter if the descendant doesn't look like paternal ancestor no more. Yemenis are a different enough people from Pashtun, both historically, culturally, genetically, etc.

It must be you since you wrote way more than me in the last post I responded to. You're comparing a very extreme case which is almost not likely to happen. If Pashtuns are the ones who created the "father is Pashtun ...." rule then clearly that is something they accept. Sorry dude, keep using Google Image search though.

You've been corrupted by Western Feminism bro; break free. Stop being beta

[Forreigner]

It must be you since you wrote way more than me in the last post I responded to. You're comparing a very extreme case which is almost not likely to happen. If Pashtuns are the ones who created the "father is Pashtun ...." rule then clearly that is something they accept. Sorry dude, keep using Google Image search though.

You've been corrupted by Western Feminism bro; break free. Stop being beta

Okey dude...i am just playing with you...who gives a **** about race in this age....i am indian myself, and I am planning to marry a white girl...

If you live in the West, there is probably no point in trying to keep your race "pure" by marrying someone of your own race as it most likely will be absorbed by the majority group eventually..

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Okey dude...i am just playing with you...who gives a **** about race in this age....i am indian myself, and I am planning to marry a white girl...

If you live in the West, there is probably no point in trying to keep your race "pure" by marrying someone of your own race as it most likely will be absorbed by the majority group eventually..

You can have a white girl, a black girl, an asian girl, an afghan. You get 4 , use your options.

I plan on One Hungarian, one Uighur, one Afghan and One Qatari. we'll be one big happy family.

[Elite Pakhtun]

Any Pashto speaker is generally referred to as Pashtun...........but within framework of Pakhtun society, "Pashtun" means the one with Pashtun lineage (belonging to four great tribal confederations)......for example Gibaris speak Pashto, look exactly like Pashtuns but they are not considered Pashtuns. Take the example of the Farmulis, who were from Pashtun belt, looked like Pashtuns/Afghans, aligned themselves with the interests of Afghans and styled themselves as "Afghans"......but on occasions they were reminded that they are "Shaikhzadas" , not true Afghans . The Farmulis | History of Pashtuns د پښتنو تاريخ

Not just any Pashto speakers. Someone's who can trace their ethnic background to Pashtun. Basically someone who looks like one, walks like one, and has for all intents and purposes been one. It's not a refined definition. If they live in that region, it's usually well known who is or isn't. I'm sure some do rely on father's last name (especially if they're dark skinned/look nothing like a Pashtun).

There are many Syeds that have settled in Pashtun regions. Over the time period of 500-1,000 years they do become that ethnicity. Even if they stayed there for, honestly just 100 years, but even assuming they all have kids later in life i.e. at age 40, then 150 years is enough to change a person's ethnicity. People in KP accept them as such as well... and Syeds are the only example I can think of right now, but I'm sure there are others.

I don't know anything about the Farmulis, so I will not comment. I will say that I doubt though, that if they lived with Pakhtuns, intermarried, adopted the same culture, etc, that your thing on them being not accepted is reality at all. Maybe occasionally they were reminded of something, and it was probably relevant to that time period due to rivalries etc... I don't know and I don't care. Anyone who's lived in these regions can tell you first hand that it is definitely racial and cultural, but mostly racial.

Tribe connection is just proof for those who are clearly not ethnically affiliated. It may be used frequently (though I haven't seen it), but I think the racial categorization is more common.

What is this 4 great tribal confederations? LOL... who told you this? There are so many zais, you'll lose count. Some people, unfortunately, change their last name to suit their needs. Count how many "Khans" there are. Did Genghis Khan have a tribe somewhere in Afghanistan? That's like saying you're only black if you can trace your roots to some very specific South Africa tribe place. It is not that refined and organized. There was no collusion of 4 tribal confederations who decided "we're inventing our own ethnicity". It's also very easy and possible for Syeds to trace their ancestry to the various tribes they're genetically affiliated with, but it will be from the mother's side + father's mother etc because the male progeny carry the Syed last name. It doesn't matter though, since it's racial.

Plus, you should be responding to my post directed at you, not the one directed at Iblis. That Afridi person I mentioned can trace their lineage. What say you about that? Is that person now more Pashtun than a Syed who is really ethnically Pashtun? C'mon man... nobody in KP says this. The person themselves wouldn't even say they're Pashtun, but they're from a Pashtun tribe based on their last name.