Erdogan: Syrian refugees could become Turkish citizens

[Firdousi]

Your response was a defense mechanism if you think about it. We're not talking about being 100% corruption free but the RAMPANCY of corruption ,,,

Time to blame yourselves don't you think?

Pakistan is a corrupt country but its not their fault. Its Afghansitans, Indian´s, West, Israel and Iran fault.

A Pakistani blew himself up in KSA two days ago and Pakis are all over the internet blaming Afghanistan and India. This guys are too st*pid. Afghans are uneducated too but at least I feel like the average Afghans figures out what its going on in the world: we know how brutal warlords are, we know there is a rampant corruption, we know Pakistans, Irans and USA´s double games, we know that Taliban are a bunch of b*stard Paki psychos,.. and so on. But the average Pakistani seems to be extremely st*pid. just saying.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Pakistan is a corrupt country but its not their fault. Its Afghansitans, Indian´s, West, Israel and Iran fault.
.

I'm working on Golden, he's getting there; he's either going to have to admit Pakistani Government Institutions are Incompetent or Corrupt.

[Golden]

I'm working on Golden, he's getting there; he's either going to have to admit Pakistani Government Institutions are Incompetent or Corrupt.

Brother I already said reason afghanis get CNIC is because of corruption in Nadra

[asif86]

What are the percentages by province?

According to media reports there are about 1.7 million registered refugees and another 1 million who are un-registered ones roaming around.The majority reside in KPK and balochistan as these provinces have long border with afghanistan.

[asif86]

So.. for few rupees people can get a Pakistani passport, right? Your country is a joke, bro. I just wonder how Pakistanis can even be proud of it.

Lets not forget that identity fraud can even happen in advanced countries.

[Azmal]

Yes and in THOSE articles which have CITATIONS it's a credible reference, if you get the original citation ....but the ones WITHOUT citations are not academic ....understand the difference here?

You know if you do an academic paper (I don't mean a term paper, I mean like publishing research), you can't cite Encyclopedia Britannica without citing the original source material within Encyclopedia Britannica, because not all Britannica material is has citations.

Pashto is definitely older than 500 years old, there's evidence of Pashto past 500 years. Pashto MIGHT be A LITTLE older than a thousand years old given the references that allude to the existence of Pashtun tribes, And even some more generous estimates may make it around 1200 years ol. But no one has found any reference suggesting the existence of Pashto to 2000 years ....at ,least not yet.

Sorry you asked me a question; let me add my comment, I can understand how you may feel "justified" in this case but that was my point was there was manipulation for ultimately Afghan territorial interests. Historically Syria was apart of Turkish Khilafah and many Syrians, especially from the North have Turkish ancestry, especially if you look at their names. So the same logic could apply here too. you can argue this for more or less anything. in the end politics run by perceived interests.

To me Nationalism is much lower cause than Religion, since Religion, at least in what I believe is Islam, is divine, and nationalism man-made. Pakistan didn't divide based on religion but rather Ethno-Cultural-Religious interests, their focus was South Asian Muslims ....not Muslims in general, otherwise Pakistan would have wanted unification of ALL Muslim majority states, and not just the Indian ones.

Proto Pashto by itself is 2500 to 3000 years old. Here is what George Morgenstierne a reputable linguist says:

"Pashto is an Eastern Iranian language that was brought from Bakhthar (Balkh) to southern Afghanistan. Its speakers were Sakas who migrated to Siestan (Sakistan) in 2nd Century B.C. Before this, Pashto and other Saka dialects like Pamiri, in particular Munji and Yadgha, were spoken in the same style. Moreover, it had a close affinity with Ephtalite and Kushanian languages. Proto Pashto had a very close affinity with Avesta but was more intimately linked to Saka. It seems that after its early phase in Pamir and Balakh, Pashto completed its middle phase (Middle Pashto) in Siestan, Helmand, Ghor, and Arachoazia (Kandahar) and modern phase (Modern Pashto) in Kasi Ghar (Suleiman Mountains) and the rest of the Pashtunkhwa. There is two surviving modern languages closest to Scythian are Ossentian in the Caucasus mountains and Pashto in Afghanistan.”

Either way..the fact is Pashtuns are native of the land they live in, we are not lost tribes that descents from Suleiman Mountains as some of old Qazilbash Afghan historian used to claim, like Prof Javid and even he refuted this ridiculous claim in his last book.

Comparing Turkish claim over Arab base on Ottman rules---which the Turks lost due to Arab rebellions to that Afghanistan’s righteous claim Pashtunsitan which we lost due to active British invasion is imperially and factually incorrect! It is more like this analogy…we been living in our house for centuries…a neighborhood bully comes and puts a line between our house and claims half of our family and house…once the bully leaves he gives that half of our family and house to a new neighbor..and now the new neighbor is surprise why we are not happy.

Even the founder of Pakistan Ali Jennah knew this fact and called people of Wazeristan as “Muslim brethren across the border.

https://united4justice.wordpress.com...ernment-house/" Keeping in view your loyalty, help, assurances and declarations we ordered, as you know, the withdrawal of troops from Waziristan as a concrete and definite gesture on our part–that we treat you with absolute confidence and trust you as our Muslim brethren across the border.”

This is not to say that Kabul government was honest about our rightful claims, in fact Afghanistan’s Pashtunistan policy were dead from starts, the fact is there is no Pashtunistan and there will never be…Afghanistan is Pashtunsitan…at same time lets not forget that Pakistan is successor of British raj for Afghan state…the FATA area, political agent, collective punishment, banning of political groups except islamist in fata and so on are continuation of British forward policy... Pakistan fears that a strong Afghanistan would pose a serious threat to her territorial integrity, because of Durand line and unwilling of any government in Kabul to accept this imaginary line as border. This is because the creation of Pakistan has a country in itself is rooted in controversy… even if we accept that an individual's religious affinity bypass his or her political and economic inspirations (separation of Panjab and Sind from India) there is NO rational what’s so ever by dividing eastern Pashtuns from Afghanistan!

Anyways...hope you had an eventful Eid has I did and Happy belated Eid Mahmood!

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

@Azmal

Brother, I hate to do this to you, but That quote by Morgenstierne is a complete forgery; because I'm the one who actually forged it 11 years ago on Afghansite when we used to debate Parsitani and those guys.

Here's me admitting it here: http://www.pashtunforums.com/pashtun...ry-forged.html

[Golden]

[MENTION=1444]Azmal[/MENTION] brother even though Ramazan is over but don't lie like a typical Afghani. Only reason FATA even joined Pakistan was because they demanded same british laws to be applied on them and not Pakistani ones in future. Which mean no police, court, parliament etc

Yes yes these now days sound backward and need to changed but you guys make it sound like its forced on them lol typical ignorant afghanis.

[Azmal]

@Azmal brother even though Ramazan is over but don't lie like a typical Afghani. Only reason FATA even joined Pakistan was because they demanded same british laws to be applied on them and not Pakistani ones in future. Which mean no police, court, parliament etc

Yes yes these now days sound backward and need to changed but you guys make it sound like its forced on them lol typical ignorant afghanis.

I don’t know why you are trying bring sudo-religious in discussion but what you say is actually not true at all. I would suggest you read more about NWFP referendum and how Angreez manipulated the whole process in favor of Pakistan. Please educate



Please educate yourself brother, the Pakistani studies you are reading is nothing but lies. Here is a good read from a Pakistani website by a educated Pakistani.



http://pakteahouse.net/2008/07/10/hi...fp-referendum/


Why Referendum??he historian must ask a simple question: why referendum was called by the colonial masters in NWFP, when an elected assembly was in place. NWFP, was a province of India, it had an elected assembly. Its counterparts like Bengal and Punjab were divided, their geography was changed but referendum was not called. Though the situation demanded it, whether Bengalis or Punjabis wanted to be partitioned or join any state as whole. But NWFP was asked to go to polls. Why? because NWFP had progressive assembly, and there was a need to subvert the public opinion. Muslim League and their British masters wanted a democratic cover for their action.



The Referendem : Fair or Farce

A farce and a shameful farce , this referendum was. And the key reasons were:
A: It was not based on adult franchise, Voting was restricted
B. Not all Pakhtoons were allowed to participate in the referendum that would seal not only their fate but that of their brothers in Afghanistan
C. The tribal Pakhtoons were not allowed to vote. In the population of 3.5 Million only 0.6 Million were allowed to vote
D. 6 Tribal agencies were barred from it
E. The States of Sawat, Dir,Amb, and Chitral were also not allowed to participate
Any referendum that disenfranchises such a large number of population can never be called a legitimate exercise of “self determination”. It has no political, legal and moral authority whatsoever.








For all that, on the polling day they resorted to such rigging that it is hard to find a parallel. Ballot boxes were freely stuffed and even the votes of Khudai Khidmatgar leaders were cast. Let me cite two instances, one told to me by Sikandar Mirza himself who was former deputy commissioner in Hazara. Touring the polling booths he reached the one at the gullies. The staff proudly told him: “This is mountainous area. We have just 200 voters on the list here. But, Sir, we have already polled 210.”espite a virtually unopposed Referendum , and monumental effort by the Moslem League what was the result?
The Results:
Number of votes 5,72,799
Polled votes (51%) 2,92,118
For Pakistan (51.5%) 2,89,244
For India 2,874
51.5% of the allowed Voters , Voted for Pakistan.Is this the result of a referendum that sealed the fate of Millions of Pakhtoons? With the disenfranchisment, it can’t even be called a majority vote.

[Azmal]

@Azmal

Brother, I hate to do this to you, but That quote by Morgenstierne is a complete forgery; because I'm the one who actually forged it 11 years ago on Afghansite when we used to debate Parsitani and those guys.

Here's me admitting it here: http://www.pashtunforums.com/pashtun...ry-forged.html

Wait, you had mention you got it from An etymological vocabulary pf Pashto by Morgenstierne. I wish I knew Norwegian so I can verify it.
How I know this is not one of your killing a girl in backstreet of Delaware? lol remember that? Wallahi brother so hard to believe what you say...even before of admitting to lying you just did.

You were not far off Mahmood....check this out.

http://www.iranicaonline.org/article...istan-vi-pasto

It is, however, possible that the original home of Paṧtō may have been in Badaḵšān, somewhere between Munǰī and Sangl. and Shugh., with some contact with a Saka dialect akin to Khotanese. But it seems that the Old Iranic ancestor dialect of Paṧtō must have been close to that of the Gathas. (71) It is important to keep in mind the early and profound influence of Indo-Aryan on Paṧtō as well as Paṧtō’s remarkable preservation of many Iranic morphological features, in which respect only Ossetic can compete with or even surpass it."

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Wait, you had mention you got it from An etymological vocabulary pf Pashto by Morgenstierne. I wish I knew Norwegian so I can verify it.
How I know this is not one of your killing a girl in backstreet of Delaware? lol remember that? Wallahi brother so hard to believe what you say...even before of admitting to lying you just did.

You were not far off Mahmood....check this out.

http://www.iranicaonline.org/article...istan-vi-pasto

It is, however, possible that the original home of Paṧtō may have been in Badaḵšān, somewhere between Munǰī and Sangl. and Shugh., with some contact with a Saka dialect akin to Khotanese. But it seems that the Old Iranic ancestor dialect of Paṧtō must have been close to that of the Gathas. (71) It is important to keep in mind the early and profound influence of Indo-Aryan on Paṧtō as well as Paṧtō’s remarkable preservation of many Iranic morphological features, in which respect only Ossetic can compete with or even surpass it."

LOL Well back then we used to be up against Omaer, Sid and Parsistani/Jahangir so we had to get some ammunition. LOL @ Killing a girl, I vaguely remember that scenario, that was hilarious. I sort of miss those days, I used to troll you guys on MSN Messenger and just write crazy stuff on purpose. I can't believe it's been like a whole decade. 1

Remember Tamim? That other Panjshiri guy in Holland?

Anyways this is probably the more accurate version of Morgenstierne; but if you notice Morgenstierne is presenting a speculation; it's even obvious from his language, he's being very conditional here. Pashto definitely has commonalities with Avestan, it's widely accepted that Pashto is related to Avestan, but we don't know if it's directly from Avestan or what. So we don't know when it came after Avestan. This is what I mean by lacking evidence before 1200-1000 years ago, whatever we can guess about Pashto is cloudy, we don't have strong evidence.

[Golden]

I don’t know why you are trying bring sudo-religious in discussion but what you say is actually not true at all. I would suggest you read more about NWFP referendum and how Angreez manipulated the whole process in favor of Pakistan. Please educate



Please educate yourself brother, the Pakistani studies you are reading is nothing but lies. Here is a good read from a Pakistani website by a educated Pakistani.



http://pakteahouse.net/2008/07/10/hi...fp-referendum/


Why Referendum??he historian must ask a simple question: why referendum was called by the colonial masters in NWFP, when an elected assembly was in place. NWFP, was a province of India, it had an elected assembly. Its counterparts like Bengal and Punjab were divided, their geography was changed but referendum was not called. Though the situation demanded it, whether Bengalis or Punjabis wanted to be partitioned or join any state as whole. But NWFP was asked to go to polls. Why? because NWFP had progressive assembly, and there was a need to subvert the public opinion. Muslim League and their British masters wanted a democratic cover for their action.



The Referendem : Fair or Farce

A farce and a shameful farce , this referendum was. And the key reasons were:
A: It was not based on adult franchise, Voting was restricted
B. Not all Pakhtoons were allowed to participate in the referendum that would seal not only their fate but that of their brothers in Afghanistan
C. The tribal Pakhtoons were not allowed to vote. In the population of 3.5 Million only 0.6 Million were allowed to vote
D. 6 Tribal agencies were barred from it
E. The States of Sawat, Dir,Amb, and Chitral were also not allowed to participate
Any referendum that disenfranchises such a large number of population can never be called a legitimate exercise of “self determination”. It has no political, legal and moral authority whatsoever.








For all that, on the polling day they resorted to such rigging that it is hard to find a parallel. Ballot boxes were freely stuffed and even the votes of Khudai Khidmatgar leaders were cast. Let me cite two instances, one told to me by Sikandar Mirza himself who was former deputy commissioner in Hazara. Touring the polling booths he reached the one at the gullies. The staff proudly told him: “This is mountainous area. We have just 200 voters on the list here. But, Sir, we have already polled 210.”espite a virtually unopposed Referendum , and monumental effort by the Moslem League what was the result?
The Results:
Number of votes 5,72,799
Polled votes (51%) 2,92,118
For Pakistan (51.5%) 2,89,244
For India 2,874
51.5% of the allowed Voters , Voted for Pakistan.Is this the result of a referendum that sealed the fate of Millions of Pakhtoons? With the disenfranchisment, it can’t even be called a majority vote.

Brother you don't seen to know much, even less then me despite FATA/KP being part of Afghanistan lol

FATA was not part of NWFP so refferendum was not held there. Jirgas in every agency decided to join Pakistan if same British laws were applied.

99.1% voted to join Pakistan in NWFP or current day KP. Current day KP also had many independent states which now make part of KP since they also joined Pakistan. Like Bahawalpur is now part of punjab but it wasn't under British. You basically copy pasted Indian opinion without checking any fact.

Forget about all this, if they were tricked as you say then why no movement of separation even once? Even sikhs started to demand freedom soon after 1947.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Brother you don't seen to know much, even less then me despite FATA/KP being part of Afghanistan lol

FATA was not part of NWFP so refferendum was not held there. Jirgas in every agency decided to join Pakistan if same British laws were applied.

99.1% voted to join Pakistan in NWFP or current day KP. Current day KP also had many independent states which now make part of KP since they also joined Pakistan. Like Bahawalpur is now part of punjab but it wasn't under British. You basically copy pasted Indian opinion without checking any fact.

Forget about all this, if they were tricked as you say then why no movement of separation even once? Even sikhs started to demand freedom soon after 1947.

The reason overwhelming majority voted for Pakistan is because those against the referendum didn't vote. The referendum only gave people two options: join India or join Pakistan. Since the Afghans didn't want either, they abstained from voting. Therefore the result of the referendum doesn't reflect what most people really wanted.

Look at the a Brexit referendum. Only a minority of eligible voters have participated in the referendum. Still, leave campaign only got a minor majority vote. That doesn't mean overwhelming majority of Brits want out of EU.


If only 50 or 60 percent of eligible voters take part in elections and referendums, the outcome will always be flawed. In case of Pakistan the referendum drew even less people because they gave people only two options. The option to join Afghanistan wasn't even on the paper.

This is why democracy is so evil. It is all based in deception and lies.

[Golden]

The reason overwhelming majority voted for Pakistan is because those against the referendum didn't vote. The referendum only gave people two options: join India or join Pakistan. Since the Afghans didn't want either, they abstained from voting. Therefore the result of the referendum doesn't reflect what most people really wanted.

Look at the a Brexit referendum. Only a minority of eligible voters have participated in the referendum. Still, leave campaign only got a minor majority vote. That doesn't mean overwhelming majority of Brits want out of EU.


If only 50 or 60 percent of eligible voters take part in elections and referendums, the outcome will always be flawed. In case of Pakistan the referendum drew even less people because they gave people only two options. The option to join Afghanistan wasn't even on the paper.

This is why democracy is so evil. It is all based in deception and lies.

Another lie lol Only pro India party ANP didn't participate since they knew defeat was coming from mile away. FATA was not part of NFWP so they didn't have to vote, they decided on their own in Jirgas. The numbers of pashtuns in FATA don't count towards NWFP.

People in other independent states with in current day KP like Chitral, AMB, Dir, Swat and Phulra didn't vote either since their leaders decided to join Pakistan.

And BTW in democracy you vote or loss option of crying afterwards, but even then 51% participation is more then enough. And Afghanistan was never a option since they had sold NWFP to British 10 times before 1947. Knowing fully well British will eventually leave. 100% participation doesn't even happen even in modern developed countries.

[Rooh]

Another lie lol Only pro India party ANP didn't participate since they knew defeat was coming from mile away. FATA was not part of NFWP so they didn't have to vote, they decided on their own in Jirgas. The numbers of pashtuns in FATA don't count towards NWFP.

People in other independent states with in current day KP like Chitral, AMB, Dir, Swat and Phulra didn't vote either since their leaders decided to join Pakistan.

And BTW in democracy you vote or loss option of crying afterwards, but even then 51% participation is more then enough. And Afghanistan was never a option since they had sold NWFP to British 10 times before 1947. Knowing fully well British will eventually leave. 100% participation doesn't even happen even in modern developed countries.

Brother, you are a Pakistani Punjabi. You are forbidden to post on Pashtun forums from the request of Iblis efreetzai. Ghairat he to chor do is web site ko. Ye order ek special gandu se aya he. Inki website par 10-15 members he aur bol te he ke Punjabi aur Pakistani nikle. Humay jana cha ye aur ye logh ek dusre ke tattay saaf kar sak te he sukhoon me.

Leave the website man. I am going to leave this website too. Apparently Punjabis are not welcome here, according to the Afghans. They can just debate with themselves.