Arabic should become the single official national language in all muslim countries

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

I must say an lingua franca to make a Muslim collaboration sounds intriguing. Let's bring another islamic golden Age. And make paradise out of Muslim lands. Tired of all this negativitey surrounding our Islamic lands.

lay out your plans bro. Suppose Afghanistan, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, India? Malaysia Indonesia all agreed with Arabic lingua franca..you will have 24-30 countries united. How do you wanna carry IT out?

Keep in mind Most of the Muslim countries without oil or other mineral resources are extremey poor and need Big investments to Bring to a decent level specially Afghanistan, Pakistan, and some of the sub saharan Africans countries. How do you wanna make this possible?

Just to let everyone know KBM2010 is just this One1/KingdomofHeaven/Hunter/Sterge guy under a new screen name.


But since they're framing questions in a reasonably sensible way now, I'll respond: The goal here is not to recreate "The Golden Age" or forge an Islamic or Muslim Utopia. Firstly the Golden Age itself wasn't a Utopia, however it was a period of time when Muslims were a relatiely formidable and self sufficient; they were viable despite all of their flaws. We can draw inspiration from the past, but trying to recreate the past will be diastrous.

No need for that. We don't need some Islamic State, in fact the idea of a Khilafah or Islamic State is not viable since so many disparate renditions of Shari'ah exist, some more pliable and other more rigid. Also we have so many Non-Muslim minorities that we want to integrate in society, it'd be detrimental to alienate them. What we want however is the underlying principles and overarching social values reflective of Islam....the spirit of Islam, meaning its sense of ideals to be the driving force. Society should be more or less secular but respecting the role of religion.


Lebanon is a a very Westoxified country, so is Egypt, So is UAE, So is Tunisia. The Middle East in general is Westoxified. Only Erdogan in Turkey is trying to undo all this. This is what colonialism and imperialism does to cultures. The goal of the Lingua Franca is to Integrate Muslim regions of the world better and form better cooperatives and partnerships than we currently have. This will allow us to become MUTUALLY reliant and marginalize Westoxificating influences.

The way we'd have to carry it out is start translating documents, start developing academic wings that seek to conglomerate knowledge and materials and then exchange them, under mutual cooperatie pacts. then we can have regional news papers produce arabic editions, hve translated broadcasts of programs. etc etc.

Then on the economic end, we can have resource cooperative guild, many countries may lack oil, but they might have useful things like copper,. Regional Scientists can come together to utilize products from various resources to benefit each. That's one stepping stone.

[KBM2010]

Just to let everyone know KBM2010 is just this One1/KingdomofHeaven/Hunter/Sterge guy under a new screen name.


But since they're framing questions in a reasonably sensible way now, I'll respond: The goal here is not to recreate "The Golden Age" or forge an Islamic or Muslim Utopia. Firstly the Golden Age itself wasn't a Utopia, however it was a period of time when Muslims were a relatiely formidable and self sufficient; they were viable despite all of their flaws. We can draw inspiration from the past, but trying to recreate the past will be diastrous.

No need for that. We don't need some Islamic State, in fact the idea of a Khilafah or Islamic State is not viable since so many disparate renditions of Shari'ah exist, some more pliable and other more rigid. Also we have so many Non-Muslim minorities that we want to integrate in society, it'd be detrimental to alienate them. What we want however is the underlying principles and overarching social values reflective of Islam....the spirit of Islam, meaning its sense of ideals to be the driving force. Society should be more or less secular but respecting the role of religion.


Lebanon is a a very Westoxified country, so is Egypt, So is UAE, So is Tunisia. The Middle East in general is Westoxified. Only Erdogan in Turkey is trying to undo all this. This is what colonialism and imperialism does to cultures. The goal of the Lingua Franca is to Integrate Muslim regions of the world better and form better cooperatives and partnerships than we currently have. This will allow us to become MUTUALLY reliant and marginalize Westoxificating influences.

The way we'd have to carry it out is start translating documents, start developing academic wings that seek to conglomerate knowledge and materials and then exchange them, under mutual cooperatie pacts. then we can have regional news papers produce arabic editions, hve translated broadcasts of programs. etc etc.

Then on the economic end, we can have resource cooperative guild, many countries may lack oil, but they might have useful things like copper,. Regional Scientists can come together to utilize products from various resources to benefit each. That's one stepping stone.

Westtoxification is a danger, yes. But how come the other Middle Eastern/Arab speaking countries havent done much to combate it yet?

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Westtoxification is a danger, yes. But how come the other Middle Eastern Arab countries havent done much to combate it yet?

They're very colonized people, some of the most mentally colonized people are in the Middle East ....but Arabic as a lingua franca doesn't rest on their condition. Just like Islam may have Muhammad(saw) as Nabi(saw) but the non-Arab Muslims surpassed the Arab ones eventually.

[Daryeh]

There's a degree of mutual intelligibility between Dutch, German, Swedish, Norwegian and Danish too .....

Your point flunks.



did you look up what Lingua Franca is yet? Please do that before even trying to debate this ....everytime you make a point it's like you haven't even grasped the concept yet.




Obviously, but it will be greatly aided by learning Arabic.





Right, making people literate in Arabic will help nullify this ....my earlier point.



No because Understanding something in its original language is FAR superior and more comprehensive.

Most of these Western converts who join ISIS rely on translations.



Never made that argument, but it gives you a platform to call Mullahs to task, they'll no longer be able to hand wave their way out of things. When they say they have evidence they'll need to demonstrate every iota of it. That will make them think twice before opening their mouths as if they're the voice of God.




Well yeah if you just run on confirmation bias. I just debunked your points here, You're much wiser I hope.


Yep, and knowing the actual language makes you MUCH better prepared to criticize claims regarding the actual nature of the texts






I said WestTOXIFICATION, this isn't a sweeping condemnation of the West in fact the West has many positive traits. But this restructuring which Lingua Franca will be apart of, will help put us on an even playing field, where we can cherry pick and siphon what we take from them instead of feeling compelled to embrace it all because they control the playing field.




Arabic being the central language of the Islamic religious texts makes it relevant by default.



Exactly, let's change that so we don't need to simply be ping ponged here.






If you had looked up what Lingua Franca doesn't require to you stop speaking your own language in your own region. Hence, wrong again.




Refer to above point.



Not necessarily, depends on how you're using their language.



Only because I CHOSE to, not because it's inevitable.



Wrong, you can't have cultural hegemony if you still retain your culture and language, Lingua Franca's are not replacement for people's native heritage.




Faulty Logic .....Cultural Influence =/=Cultural Hegemony

Hegemonic culture's whose languages became Lingua Franca =/= Lingua Franca's are culltural hegemony

You're committing a logical fallacy called "Converse Error".




Yes in other words, hypocrisy. Your practical purposes angle is PURE bias. Using your own Criteria here, it would not be practical to adopt the language of other people's.

Pashto and Farsi have been more hegemonic than Arabs have. At least with Arabic, There are Syraic speakers in Iraq and Syria, Berber is still spoken in North Africa. Burki/Ormuri is not spoken anymore in Afghanisytan. Nuristani is on the verge of extinction.

Maybe you should practice what you preach.



You support Nuristanis but then want to push, what you yourself believe is hegemony on them? ....Quite the contradiction there.



I'm Not the one contradicting myself and my own reasoning here! This question has NO relevance to me. Since you believe Lingua Franca's are cultural hegemony .....Youi by extension are saying Farsi and Pashto are culturala hegemony (which in practice and policy they are). By that token, you should be the one calling for Nuristanis to reject Pashto and Farsi.




Because it's simply not practical to have several Lingua Franca running simultaneously.

I'm not interested in responding to your individual points since I feel like I'm just repeating myself.

All I'll say is this: let's make this mega pan-Islamic alliance work out first, then we can discuss minor things like a lingua franca later. At the moment, Muslim countries, like Pakistan and Afghanistan, have big disputes with each other. Other Muslim countries are more motivated along ethnic, nationalist or ideological lines, not religious.

The current Arabic speaking world which we hope to join is in a bad condition. Arabic produces little scientific, literary, technical or educational output compared to other languages. We'd basically have to start from scratch. Speaking Arabic doesn't improve access to good jobs or high quality education, unless you move to the Gulf Arab states, but you could get by with English since those countries are also westernized and basically built by non-Arabs.

There's 101 things the Muslim world has to do to be in a position to defend itself against "westoxification", and adopting Arabic as lingua franca should be somewhere near the bottom of the that list. I support an EU-type organization for Muslim countries but I don't think a lingua franca should be a priority.

As for Arabic being one of the official languages within Afghanistan, alongside Pashto and Persian, please don't even waste your time discussing that. Children in Afghanistan should not have to learn Arabic full stop. It's impractical, a waste of time, a waste of government resources, it's not the indigenous language of a single ethnicity in Afghanistan and it's a language which currently has little value. I'm not going to even entertain an idea that is likely borne out of the wet dream of a few "born again" puritanical Muslims who probably all live in the western world anyway.

[KBM2010]

I'm not interested in responding to your individual points since I feel like I'm just repeating myself.

All I'll say is this: let's make this mega pan-Islamic alliance work out first, then we can discuss minor things like a lingua franca later. At the moment, Muslim countries, like Pakistan and Afghanistan, have big disputes with each other. Other Muslim countries are more motivated along ethnic, nationalist or ideological lines, not religious.

The current Arabic speaking world which we hope to join is in a bad condition. Arabic produces little scientific, literary, technical or educational output compared to other languages. We'd basically have to start from scratch. Speaking Arabic doesn't improve access to good jobs or high quality education, unless you move to the Gulf Arab states, but you could get by with English since those countries are also westernized and basically built by non-Arabs.

There's 101 things the Muslim world has to do to be in a position to defend itself against "westoxification", and adopting Arabic as lingua franca should be somewhere near the bottom of the that list. I support an EU-type organization for Muslim countries but I don't think a lingua franca should be a priority.

As for Arabic being one of the official languages within Afghanistan, alongside Pashto and Persian, please don't even waste your time discussing that. Children in Afghanistan should not have to learn Arabic full stop. It's impractical, a waste of time, a waste of government resources, it's not the indigenous language of a single ethnicity in Afghanistan and it's a language which currently has little value. I'm not going to even entertain an idea that is likely borne out of the wet dream of a few "born again" puritanical Muslims who probably all live in the western world anyway.

Completely agree.

I just asked him to explain his "plan" since he was so hard on the op's idea..and while the goal of achieving a Muslim collaborating unit that can combat (negative to our culture) Western influence is not a bad one, the Arabic lingua franca is unnecessary at least as official language of any non Arab Muslim country. its completely useless to have IT is thought in school for kids.Perhaps IT can be a language on offer at University or higher level, that way the population in general does not need to learn Arabic as its completely useless for the general populace to adopt/learn a forreign language if they are gonna Work/stay kn Afghanistan. It's completely useless for an Afghan that opts to work as a farmer, bus driver, baker, car mechanic, etc. to have any knowledge of Arabic or any other forreign language if he Works in Afghanistan.

The idea of making of making Arabic, English or German an official language (meaning that even a plumber, baker, etc. avarage joe speaks these any of these forreign language) is ridiculous/idiotic not to mention completely useless and Waste of time/resources...the idea of adopting any forreign language as official language is laughable. it shouldnt even be entertained.

Afterall in countries like Spain, Portugal, Italy, Germany,, etc. the general population is not thought English language, (even most Hollywood movies are dubbed in German, Portugese, Spanish (Catalan, Castillan, etc.), Italian, etc.) even though the English is international language. because most people in such countries do not need to have any knowledge of English to get by in their own country.

[Daryeh]

Completely agree.

I just asked him to explain his "plan" since he was so hard on the op's idea..and while the goal of achieving a Muslim World that can combat Western influence is a good one, the Arabic lingua franca is unnecessary at least as official language of any non Arab Muslim country. its completely useless to have IT is thought in school for kids.Perhaps IT can be a language on offer at University level, that way the population in general does not need to learn Arabic as its completely useless for the general populace to adopt/learn a forreign language. why should a an Afghan that opts to work as a farmer, bus driver, car mechanic, etc. need Arabic if he Works in Afghanistan?

The idea of making of making Arabic an official language (meaning that even a plumber, baker, etc. avarage joe speaks Arabic) is ridiculous/idiotic not to mention completely useless and Waste of time/resources...the idea of adopting any forreign language as official language is laughable. it shouldnt even be entertained....

Afterall in countries like Spain, Portugal, Germany,, etc. the general population is not thought English language, even though the English is international language...because most people in such countries do not need to have any knowledge of English to get by in their own country.

Yeah. If people choose to study Arabic language at the university level then of course I'm fine with that.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Neither of you really understand the cioncept of a Lingua Franca.

Both of you have completely strawmaned the position being taken here. No one here is claiming or has claimed Arabic ALONE is some how the solution to every problem. It's a tool, and a very necessary tool. bThe dependence on English is precisely why we want to switch to Arabic as an international LINGUA FRANCA. So that the Arabic countries and our countries won't have to interact based on English and thereby making steps to dissolve this vicious cycle. Afghanistan is as Westtoxified as any other country. The Expats that go back to Afghanistan to "work" as some of the most Westtoxified people around. Both Pashtun and Tajiks.



[MENTION=19961]KBM2010[/MENTION] and whatever other screen names you return back under. Your question has been sufficiently answered. You're bypassing it and instead opting to go by strawman and switch "Lingua Franca" to 'Official Language of Afghanistan'.

My views and the OP's views differ, he wants official language status, I want Lingua Franca. Not sure why this very basic concept is so hard for you to grasp?

[MENTION=19895]Daryeh[/MENTION] completely absurd, you act as if there's some big budget needed, The Government currently spends keeping Warlords happy. Maybe if they spent less of that money on them, and more money on this you'd see we have plenty of resources for this. If you're cool will Pushing and marginalizing Minority languages for Pashto and Farsi, this isn't somehow going to break everyone's back. Grow up.

And yes you are repeating yourself You keep affirming your own conclusions, Circular reasoning and Confirmation bias at its core. This suggests your position is a weak one and you don't know how to respond back to counter claims except repittion. Poor logical foundations in your premise. Your assertions are Non-sequitur. We're not trying to "join" the Arab world, we're trying to make a cooperative with the Muslim world, this isn't about anything special about Arabs, This is about the utility of Arabic, preferably Modern Standard Arabic language in this transition for the Muslim world at large.. The short comings you see you talk about are precisely what we want to combat and ultimately change. This lack of scientific, economic and intellectual development and reliance on Western facilities and talent which end up being a backdoor for Westoxification because of the disproportionate level of global power. But first we need to facilitate that change somehow, One of the ways to help do that is changing our Lingua Franca.

The main places where an Arabic as a Lingua Franca would be implemented would be

Science
Commerce/Trade
Economics
Media
International Politics
Infrastructure

Not sure why this would suggest every plumber in Afghanistan (all 4 of them) would need it or why you'd think that's what this implies.

[Firdousi]

Guys, are you f*cking stupid? WHY ONLY ONE LINGUA FRANCA? EU has more than 27 official languages. We live in the 21th century. People can learn more than one language. I learned English by my own. Why not make Arabic, Farsi, Turkish and Urdu official languages? I know plenty of people able to speak fluently up to six languages. I can speak fluently 4 languages.

So whats the point of this nonsense debate between Arabic or Persian? Learn both, you useless fools! You are willing to learn any stupid BS but when it comes to learning USEFUL stuff from other people you go full stupid and nationalist.

[KBM2010]

Neither of you really understand the cioncept of a Lingua Franca.

Both of you have completely strawmaned the position being taken here. No one here is claiming or has claimed Arabic ALONE is some how the solution to every problem. It's a tool, and a very necessary tool. bThe dependence on English is precisely why we want to switch to Arabic as an international LINGUA FRANCA. So that the Arabic countries and our countries won't have to interact based on English and thereby making steps to dissolve this vicious cycle. Afghanistan is as Westtoxified as any other country. The Expats that go back to Afghanistan to "work" as some of the most Westtoxified people around. Both Pashtun and Tajiks.



@KBM2010 and whatever other screen names you return back under. Your question has been sufficiently answered. You're bypassing it and instead opting to go by strawman and switch "Lingua Franca" to 'Official Language of Afghanistan'.

My views and the OP's views differ, he wants official language status, I want Lingua Franca. Not sure why this very basic concept is so hard for you to grasp?

@Daryeh completely absurd, you act as if there's some big budget needed, The Government currently spends keeping Warlords happy. Maybe if they spent less of that money on them, and more money on this you'd see we have plenty of resources for this. If you're cool will Pushing and marginalizing Minority languages for Pashto and Farsi, this isn't somehow going to break everyone's back. Grow up.

And yes you are repeating yourself You keep affirming your own conclusions, Circular reasoning and Confirmation bias at its core. This suggests your position is a weak one and you don't know how to respond back to counter claims except repittion. Poor logical foundations in your premise. Your assertions are Non-sequitur. We're not trying to "join" the Arab world, we're trying to make a cooperative with the Muslim world, this isn't about anything special about Arabs, This is about the utility of Arabic, preferably Modern Standard Arabic language in this transition for the Muslim world at large.. The short comings you see you talk about are precisely what we want to combat and ultimately change. This lack of scientific, economic and intellectual development and reliance on Western facilities and talent which end up being a backdoor for Westoxification because of the disproportionate level of global power. But first we need to facilitate that change somehow, One of the ways to help do that is changing our Lingua Franca.

The main places where an Arabic as a Lingua Franca would be implemented would be

Science
Commerce/Trade
Economics
Media
International Politics
Infrastructure

Not sure why this would suggest every plumber in Afghanistan (all 4 of them) would need it or why you'd think that's what this implies.

Your peddling between your definitions. You have been proven wrong. So now your claiming people don't understand the definitions of lingua franca. You even proposed Arabic as the inter-ethnic language between all Afghans thereby giving this alien language an official national language status alongside Persian and Pashto, when in fact, such an idea if implemented would not just hurt Pashtuns, but every single ethnicity in Afghanistan. your logic was that if Pashtuns and Tajiks have a rife over language, ''great lets implement a totally forreign language, and hurt them both''. After all where as now people only have to learn one extra language depending on where they want to live/work, in such scenario, there would be a third one. Over time this third language if implemented as enter-ethnic language would potentially replace all indigenous languages and thereby erase Pashtuns, Tajiks/Persians, Nuristanis, etc. from history.
Languages are inseperable part of identity and culture of nations and peoples.

As far as lingua franca, for the 100s times repeatedly argued on this thread, Arabic speaking countries are producing nothing of substantial litterature, science/tech, etc. Ergo. Arabic is more or less a useless language, only relevant due to it's imperialistic past as it killed plateura of other languages and cultures and by Arabizing hundreds of different non-Arab peoples, it's speakers rose in numbers. Don't give me the Quran/Islam argument. If people are starving, and lack the basic human needs to survive, praying to God is hardly going to save them from pain and suffering.

The richest Arab countries are banking on English anyway. All the oil rich Arab countries are turning into tourist resorts (where Arab sheikhs live extravagant lifestyles, wiping their asses with toiletpaper made out of gold, while the general populace can only dream lol). basically while now their ecconomies depend on oil, in the future it will depend on tourism, ei. English is going to stay there for as long as West is the dominant ecconomic/technological force of the world. this is their ecconomic model for their future. English is dominant in Arabic speaking lands and will be so for the forseeable future.

like has been said, we had have to start from scratch. this means non-Arabs would have to carry a large part of the burden. Why not work to make our own langauges the lingua franca then? after all if Persian/Pashtun countries begin getting powerful, dominate in science/tech, commerce, etc. we can push our own languages as lingua franca in forreign lands, including Arabic speaking countries.

If you want a pan-Muslim entitiy, first let the countries who already do have Arabic as lingua franca figure something out between them, and if they are in anyway showing signs of succes, other Muslim non Arab countries may have an incentive as for as lingua franca goes.

We are all going in circles by now. so this will be last post from me. We all know, a lingua franca is not going to solve anything. (most middle east countries already have Arabic as lingua franca). Lingua francas are born out of necessity (one society takes the lead in technology/science, finance/wealth (both of these go hand in hand), etc. creates incentives for other societies to have knowledge of their language in order to catch up; as what's happening with English in oil rich Arab countries), not out of dreams of restoring brief ''golden ages''.

As far as 'westtoxification', every society has the critical sense to evaluate, what aspects of another society to adopt, and what to not adopt. Some societies lose this critical sense (mental colonization), because of colonialism/slavery, and implement every aspects of a forreign society, which in the end makes them worse off than before. Even we who live in the west, and are fully exposed to Western ways, can see Western ways are not perfect/ideal, it has some positive aspects, but also negative aspects, and we must use our critical sense to evaluate which aspects of western or any other society we could use, and which other aspects not use.

As far as lingua franca in the west...the avarage Spanish, French, German, Italian, Portugese person does not have very much knowledge of English despite ENglish being the the international language, and these countries being part of EU. Such countries intentionally do not want English to become dominant over their own languages in their own countries (even Hollywood movies are dubbed in their own languages). As far as multi lingual countries goes, Spain for example is a very multi lingual/ethnic country, and it works. While Castillan (Spanish) is official national language, the different regions have their own language with official status (ei. Catalan, Basque, Galician etc.).

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

I said it would get rid of the tension over Farsi versus Pashto. Which it would, This isn't the same as saying this should be how it must be WITHIN Afghanistan. Although I still stand by my claim, why must Nuristanis, Aimaqs, Uzbeks be compelled to speak either Pashto or Farsii to communicate with other Afghans, if you both believe that doing so would be hegemonic and a threat to their culture? The definition I used is the definition that exists. So no peddling here.


Yes you are going in circles, I actually ADDRESSED every point you made. Lingua Franca is a TOOL for a solution. Not the solution in itself, so stop misrepresenting other people's arguments and stay strictly to what is being said and jumping on various straw man fallacies.

It shows the logical foundations of your position is weak and you rely more on emotional banter to make your point seem validated.

About Westoxification you're more or less copying what I already wrote, and making believe I never mentioned that I'm not making a sweeping condemnation of the West, but this blind subservience that seems to plague the communities we come from,.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

[MENTION=19424]Firdousi[/MENTION]

Actually I would almost advocate Farsi over Arabic, except more Muslims are exposed to Arabic via the religion than with Farsi.

actually Farsi is very easy to learn, maybe I should reconsider?

You make a good point about the lingua franca thing.

[KBM2010]

Your going in circless over again...almost trollish level but your Posts are Long enough to not possibly be time wasting of a typical troll....

If Pashtuns feel insecure about Persian replacing Pashto, how are they gonna feel any better about Arabic, which is perhaps even more dominant due to the fact its the language in Quran? You Dont make much sense here....

your analagy is off with Nuristanis, Aimaqs and Uzbeks as well. Afghans are not part of a Islamic caliphate/Arab majority country. But Nuristanis, Uzbeks, Aimaq are part of Afghanistan.



The linguistic map of Afghanistan Look like this:



If a Tajik or Nuristani works in Kandahar, obviously he is going to talk Pashto in order to get by. Similarly a Pashtun or Uzbak in Herat might need Persian. How is this hegemony?

If a Catalan or Basque person moves to work in Madrid, he is going to need to speak Castillan in order to get by in the region, as Madrid is a region of majority Castilan speaker.

Collaboration between Muslim countries in various fields can exist, but non-Arab countries dont need to become absorbed by Arab language/culture (which is being proposed here in this thread)...The avarage Joe in Non-Arab Muslim country has no need for any knowledge of Arabic, unless person plans to go to work in some Arab country.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

If anyone's going in circles it's you, you keep on responding to points I never made. You respond to points that superficially seem similar, but not even remotely the same.

Thiis is basically what you've done the whole time.



It doesn't matter if Aimaqs, Uzbeks and Nuristanis are apart of Afghanistan, they didn't chose to be. Pashto is not their culture, Farsi is not their culture. Pashto nor Farsi are majority in Nuristan. By your logic they should reject Pashto and Farsi. By your reasoning, they should also reject Afghanistan because it was imposed on them (remember Nuristan was invaded by Pashtun kings just a little over 100 years ago). Your criteria here is arbitrary.

Using your earlier argument, a Plumber or Janitor in Nuristan doesn't need to learn Pashto or Farsi, so by your reasoning, it's waste of resources for them. I'm not saying I agree with this argument, You're mentioning irrelevant cases like if a Pashtun works in Herat or if an Uzbek works in Kandahar. If those are the cases you endorse, then only THOSE individuals should be learning Pashto or Farsi, not all of Balkh, not all of Nuristan. it just shows hyour reasoning is inconsistent.

This is why your argument doesn't work.I'm just showing the weakness of your position, it'd end up boomerangiing on you.And you know what's Trollish? Making multiple accountgs like KingdomOfHeaven ...One1 and now KMD2010. LOLyou just can't keep up because you lack a thorough understanding, So your defense for cowardly being incapable is to accuse others of troling.

[Firdousi]

If anyone's going in circles it's you, you keep on responding to points I never made. You respond to points that superficially seem similar, but not even remotely the same.

Thiis is basically what you've done the whole time.



It doesn't matter if Aimaqs, Uzbeks and Nuristanis are apart of Afghanistan, they didn't chose to be. Pashto is not their culture, Farsi is not their culture. Pashto nor Farsi are majority in Nuristan. By your logic they should reject Pashto and Farsi. By your reasoning, they should also reject Afghanistan because it was imposed on them (remember Nuristan was invaded by Pashtun kings just a little over 100 years ago). Your criteria here is arbitrary.

Using your earlier argument, a Plumber or Janitor in Nuristan doesn't need to learn Pashto or Farsi, so by your reasoning, it's waste of resources for them. I'm not saying I agree with this argument, You're mentioning irrelevant cases like if a Pashtun works in Herat or if an Uzbek works in Kandahar. If those are the cases you endorse, then only THOSE individuals should be learning Pashto or Farsi, not all of Balkh, not all of Nuristan. it just shows hyour reasoning is inconsistent.

This is why your argument doesn't work.I'm just showing the weakness of your position, it'd end up boomerangiing on you.And you know what's Trollish? Making multiple accountgs like KingdomOfHeaven ...One1 and now KMD2010. LOLyou just can't keep up because you lack a thorough understanding, So your defense for cowardly being incapable is to accuse others of troling.

Hmm, actually Aymaqs are culturally, linguistically and ethnically Tajiks (most of them). Manyz Uzbeks in Afghanistan are Persianspeakers too.

This debate doesn't make sense. Arabic becoming lingua franca in Iran, Afghanistan, CAR´s, India/Pak is pure wishful thinking. It didn't work in the past, it isn't working now and it won't work in the future.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Hmm, actually Aymaqs are culturally, linguistically and ethnically Tajiks (most of them). Manyz Uzbeks in Afghanistan are Persianspeakers too.

This debate doesn't make sense. Arabic becoming lingua franca in Iran, Afghanistan, CAR´s, India/Pak is pure wishful thinking. It didn't work in the past, it isn't working now and it won't work in the future.

It was never instituted in the past.

While it's true many are Persian-speakers many are not Aymaqs may have had some degree of assimilation. but isn't this dissolution of their cultural heritage exactly what is being grieved about by KMD2010 and Daryeh? Seems simply an issue of bias than concern for cultural preservation.