Arabic should become the single official national language in all muslim countries

[KBM2010]

As an Afghan-Tajik I must say its so F*CKING annoying to see how so many Tajiks have adopted this stupid Iranian arrogance. Yeah its true that Persian culture and history is rich and sophisticated but that doesn't meant that an ethnically Persian/Tajik is by default superior to people from other ethnicities or that we can't learn stuff from other cultures. So take it easy.

BTW right now there is nothing to be proud of. If you go to Iran most of boys are a bunch of effeminate cowards White wannabes. Women are wh*res. Just visit Imam Reza: hundreds of ladies are willing to do ziqe. Its embarrassing. Iran right now is not a role model at all.

This. History is history. What matter is now.

What is your opinion on so called ex-muslims who talks negative about Islam/religions?

[KBM2010]

Does it mention "kebabs" or claim Muslims believe Muhammad is a Messiah? LOL

The video is horrible. That moron shouldnt have been racist to -Arabs..White wannabe House slaves are the worst. I guess its easy target hate on Arabs these Days.

Are you Arab btw?

[KBM2010]

As an Afghan-Tajik I must say its so F*CKING annoying to see how so many Tajiks have adopted this stupid Iranian arrogance. Yeah its true that Persian culture and history is rich and sophisticated but that doesn't meant that an ethnically Persian/Tajik is by default superior to people from other ethnicities or that we can't learn stuff from other cultures. So take it easy.

BTW right now there is nothing to be proud of. If you go to Iran most of boys are a bunch of effeminate cowards White wannabes. Women are wh*res. Just visit Imam Reza: hundreds of ladies are willing to do ziqe. Its embarrassing. Iran right now is not a role model at all.

In Real Life too or just on Internet?

I have never Met a person who gloated about his groups' accomplishements.......its stupid regardless...

[Firdousi]

This. History is history. What matter is now.

What is your opinion on so called ex-muslims who talks negative about Islam/religions?

It depends. Some former Muslims have serious concerns regarding Islam, its nature and its values and so on. I respect those people. Other former Muslims are just White wannabes. I despise them.

There is stupid trend in the Western world where many people hold the stupid idea that by talking BS against your own identity, culture, religion or nation you are better or more sophisticated. I appreciate sane, rational and educated debates. I dislike liberal BS.

[KBM2010]

Damir2000, You're racially motivated not religiously. Your ignorance of the region suggests you're not from the region. My point was that you have multiple screen names and think we won't notice.

Anyone who says "Perfect Human Messiah" wasn't raised in a Muslim home, as Muslims do not believe Muhammad was a Messiah. Get out of here kid.

I must say an lingua franca to make a Muslim collaboration sounds intriguing. Let's bring another islamic golden Age. And make paradise out of Muslim lands. Tired of all this negativitey surrounding our Islamic lands.

lay out your plans bro. Suppose Afghanistan, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, India? Malaysia Indonesia all agreed with Arabic lingua franca..you will have 24-30 countries united. How do you wanna carry IT out?

Keep in mind Most of the Muslim countries without oil or other mineral resources are extremey poor and need Big investments to Bring to a decent level specially Afghanistan, Pakistan, and some of the sub saharan Africans countries. How do you wanna make this possible?

[KBM2010]

It depends. Some former Muslims have serious concerns regarding Islam, its nature and its values and so on. I respect those people. Other former Muslims are just White wannabes. I despise them.

There is stupid trend in the Western world where many people hold the stupid idea that by talking BS against your own identity, culture, religion or nation you are better or more sophisticated. I appreciate sane, rational and educated debates. I dislike liberal BS.

I agree man. I think we can learn some things from Westerners (most importantly tolerance, and less fanatical/extremist islam), but I feel some our own core values (conservative?) are good. But less fanatism/extremism. tired of such dense mullah ****s who wanna kill me for pointing why he needs to use his brain a Little bit and stop living with an outdated mindset.

[Firdousi]

I agree man. I think we can learn some things from Westerners (most importantly tolerance, and less fanatical/extremist islam), but I feel some our own core values (conservative?) are good. But less fanatism/extremism. tired of such dense mullah ****s who wanna kill me for pointing why he needs to use his brain a Little bit and stop living with an outdated mindset.

We need to find a third way. Western Liberalism leads to moral relativism and extreme individualism. Salafist extremisms leads to carnage, failed states/societies. We need an alternative. Modernism+Islamic conservative values. Of course every country has his own culture. I feel closer to traditional Persian culture (Persian poems, Persian miniature, Persian architecture, Persian behavior, etc).

West wants to impose on us its secularism/capitalist-corporativism. Pretty obvious most of Muslims reject this. This creates a huge mess, with interventionism and extremism fueling each other. We need to find a way man. There is no other way left.

[Daryeh]

This is false, if you've ever been to Arabic speaking countries there is no Natural understanding of the dialects. Either they understand the dialect because they learned the dialect OR they communicate in Modern Standard Arabic. They're not at this stage a Lingua Franca.

There is still a degree of mutual intelligibility between them, whether they speak dialectical Arabic or Modern Standard Arabic. With a little effort, they can understand each other. Arabic IS a lingua franca in the Arab world, this isn't even up for debate.

A lingua franca where all Muslims from Morocco to Bangladesh speak a uniform Qur'anic Arabic will never happen since the language will just evolve regional dialectical differences- much like what has happened already.

An understanding of Arabic will prevent people from getting sucked into dodgy claims about religion by being able to understand and go back to the source material and check for themselves.

Brother, the roots of Islamic extremism will not be fixed by simply learning Arabic.

First of all, Afghanistan is mostly illiterate. Religious is passed down through hearsay.

Secondly, even if they were literate, they could simply check the source in the translation of whatever language they speak.

Thirdly, and before you say "but the translation is different from its Arabic meaning"- simply learning Arabic isn't going to make you an expert on Islamic theology. You might be able to read the Qur'an in its original language, but there'll always be a reason to rely on religious scholars. You're not a fluent or native speaker, you don't know the history behind the verses, you're interpreting the words wrong (after all, all literature is open to various interpretations), you don't understand the theology of Islam, etc.

At the end you're none the wiser. So really, what's the point.

People believe dodgy claims about religion because they lack critical thinking. Critical thinking can be improved by providing access to primary, secondary and university level education. That should be the focus.

I never said Anesticize Westernization, but it will anesticize Westoxification , this blind absorption of Western mores. Well it will create a more strongly reinforced cultural lanscape.

I understand your concerns about westernization. Believe me it's something I wouldn't want to see in Afghanistan either. I personally hate seeing Afghans dropping English words in Dari/Pashto, or seeing signs/brands in English. But your suggestion is to basically replace westernization with Arabization. It's hard to be enthusiastic about that, since I'm neither a westerner nor an Arab, it'd be my culture/language getting ****ed either way.

Improve economy? Easier and better commerce because language is standardized for international use with regional partnerships.

I can understand a lingua franca for the elite- government officials and the like- in order to cooperate on a governmental level with regional countries. But I don't know if that lingua franca would be Arabic. It just doesn't have the relevance it used to in the Muslim world.

Also Afghanistan's biggest trading partners are non-Muslim countries like China and India, who aren't part of the hypothetical lingua franca. It trades with Iran and Pakistan which it shares a common language with (Persian and Pashto), as well as Central Asian countries.

No More Tajiks or Pashtuns fussing about their languahes being trampled on.

Because instead both of their languages will be trampled on. Great idea.

Again look up what a Lingua Franca is. Look it up 10 times if you have to. Read it out loud to yourself if you must. If you still think it's cultural hegemony, then you're either very biased or not very good at understanding things.

Language is part of culture. The two are inseparable. You won't be able to learn Arabic by divorcing yourself of Arab culture.

Didn't you learn whatever additional language you speak by immersing yourself in the culture? The music, film, literature? Are you not connected to the culture of that language in some way?

Lingua franca is cultural hegemony. All the languages that are currently lingua francas (Arabic, English, Spanish, Russian) have culturally influenced the respective countries who have adopted it to some extent.

Then I hold by my earlier statement, that you're disingenuous about these protests against cultural hegemony. If you really hold by your reasoning, you'd have argued that Nuristanis should not have to learn Pashto or Farsi. But even you conede that Nuristanis must adopt the Lingua Franca.

And the Nuirstanis are rooted where? Your argument here is more reflective of Hegemony than having an Arabic lingua franca and just reveals the blatant hypocrisy in your views. At least with Arab lingua Franca, it's not claiming we chose it because they're more dominant. you're basically arguing Nuirstanis should speak farsi or Pashto because of domination. Hypocrisy.

I said I was against Arab cultural hegemony and adopting Arabic as a lingua franca in Afghanistan. I didn't say I was against the idea of a lingua franca within Afghanistan, which is necessary for practical purposes and already exists (Pashto and Persian being the official languages).

I fully encourage and support Nuristanis to preserve their culture and learn their mother tongue, which should be prioritized over learning the national languages. But to get by in Afghanistan, you have to be able to communicate and understand either Pashto or Persian because they're the most widely spoken languages by virtue of their ethnic populations.

And you didn't answer my question. What language do you think Nuristanis should learn? Do you think they should learn Arabic to speak to their fellow countrymen- Tajiks, Pashtuns, Hazaras, Uzbeks?

If I'm not mistaken, even in the European Union they have several working languages, namely French, English and German which are the most widely spoken. There is no one official lingua franca in the European Union, although I guess English is de facto the most widely understood language in Europe. If there was a similar organization for cooperation in politics and trade for Muslim majority countries then there could be several working languages.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

There is still a degree of mutual intelligibility between them, whether they speak dialectical Arabic or Modern Standard Arabic. With a little effort, they can understand each other. Arabic IS a lingua franca in the Arab world, this isn't even up for debate.

There's a degree of mutual intelligibility between Dutch, German, Swedish, Norwegian and Danish too .....

Your point flunks.

A lingua franca where all Muslims from Morocco to Bangladesh speak a uniform Qur'anic Arabic will never happen since the language will just evolve regional dialectical differences- much like what has happened already.

did you look up what Lingua Franca is yet? Please do that before even trying to debate this ....everytime you make a point it's like you haven't even grasped the concept yet.

Brother, the roots of Islamic extremism will not be fixed by simply learning Arabic.

Obviously, but it will be greatly aided by learning Arabic.

First of all, Afghanistan is mostly illiterate. Religious is passed down through hearsay.

Right, making people literate in Arabic will help nullify this ....my earlier point.

Secondly, even if they were literate, they could simply check the source in the translation of whatever language they speak.

No because Understanding something in its original language is FAR superior and more comprehensive.

Most of these Western converts who join ISIS rely on translations.

Thirdly, and before you say "but the translation is different from its Arabic meaning"- simply learning Arabic isn't going to make you an expert on Islamic theology. You might be able to read the Qur'an in its original language, but there'll always be a reason to rely on religious scholars. You're not a fluent or native speaker, you don't know the history behind the verses, you're interpreting the words wrong (after all, all literature is open to various interpretations), you don't understand the theology of Islam, etc.

Never made that argument, but it gives you a platform to call Mullahs to task, they'll no longer be able to hand wave their way out of things. When they say they have evidence they'll need to demonstrate every iota of it. That will make them think twice before opening their mouths as if they're the voice of God.

At the end you're none the wiser. So really, what's the point.

Well yeah if you just run on confirmation bias. I just debunked your points here, You're much wiser I hope.

People believe dodgy claims about religion because they lack critical thinking. Critical thinking can be improved by providing access to primary, secondary and university level education. That should be the focus.

Yep, and knowing the actual language makes you MUCH better prepared to criticize claims regarding the actual nature of the texts

I understand your concerns about westernization. Believe me it's something I wouldn't want to see in Afghanistan either. I personally hate seeing Afghans dropping English words in Dari/Pashto, or seeing signs/brands in English. But your suggestion is to basically replace westernization with Arabization. It's hard to be enthusiastic about that, since I'm neither a westerner nor an Arab, it'd be my culture/language getting ****ed either way.

I said WestTOXIFICATION, this isn't a sweeping condemnation of the West in fact the West has many positive traits. But this restructuring which Lingua Franca will be apart of, will help put us on an even playing field, where we can cherry pick and siphon what we take from them instead of feeling compelled to embrace it all because they control the playing field.

I can understand a lingua franca for the elite- government officials and the like- in order to cooperate on a governmental level with regional countries. But I don't know if that lingua franca would be Arabic. It just doesn't have the relevance it used to in the Muslim world.

Arabic being the central language of the Islamic religious texts makes it relevant by default.

Also Afghanistan's biggest trading partners are non-Muslim countries like China and India, who aren't part of the hypothetical lingua franca. It trades with Iran and Pakistan which it shares a common language with (Persian and Pashto), as well as Central Asian countries.

Exactly, let's change that so we don't need to simply be ping ponged here.

Because instead both of their languages will be trampled on. Great idea

If you had looked up what Lingua Franca doesn't require to you stop speaking your own language in your own region. Hence, wrong again.

Language is part of culture. The two are inseparable. You won't be able to learn Arabic by divorcing yourself of Arab culture.

Refer to above point.

Didn't you learn whatever additional language you speak by immersing yourself in the culture?

Not necessarily, depends on how you're using their language.

The music, film, literature? Are you not connected to the culture of that language in some way?

Only because I CHOSE to, not because it's inevitable.

Lingua franca is cultural hegemony.

Wrong, you can't have cultural hegemony if you still retain your culture and language, Lingua Franca's are not replacement for people's native heritage.

All the languages that are currently lingua francas (Arabic, English, Spanish, Russian) have culturally influenced the respective countries who have adopted it to some extent.

Faulty Logic .....Cultural Influence =/=Cultural Hegemony

Hegemonic culture's whose languages became Lingua Franca =/= Lingua Franca's are culltural hegemony

You're committing a logical fallacy called "Converse Error".

I said I was against Arab cultural hegemony and adopting Arabic as a lingua franca in Afghanistan. I didn't say I was against the idea of a lingua franca within Afghanistan, which is necessary for practical purposes and already exists (Pashto and Persian being the official languages)

Yes in other words, hypocrisy. Your practical purposes angle is PURE bias. Using your own Criteria here, it would not be practical to adopt the language of other people's.

Pashto and Farsi have been more hegemonic than Arabs have. At least with Arabic, There are Syraic speakers in Iraq and Syria, Berber is still spoken in North Africa. Burki/Ormuri is not spoken anymore in Afghanisytan. Nuristani is on the verge of extinction.

Maybe you should practice what you preach.

I fully encourage and support Nuristanis to preserve their culture and learn their mother tongue, which should be prioritized over learning the national
languages. But to get by in Afghanistan, you have to be able to communicate and understand either Pashto or Persian because they're the most widely spoken languages by virtue of their ethnic populations.

You support Nuristanis but then want to push, what you yourself believe is hegemony on them? ....Quite the contradiction there.

And you didn't answer my question. What language do you think Nuristanis should learn? Do you think they should learn Arabic to speak to their fellow countrymen- Tajiks, Pashtuns, Hazaras, Uzbeks?

I'm Not the one contradicting myself and my own reasoning here! This question has NO relevance to me. Since you believe Lingua Franca's are cultural hegemony .....Youi by extension are saying Farsi and Pashto are culturala hegemony (which in practice and policy they are). By that token, you should be the one calling for Nuristanis to reject Pashto and Farsi.

There is no one official lingua franca in the European Union, although I guess English is de facto the most widely understood language in Europe

Because it's simply not practical to have several Lingua Franca running simultaneously.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

[MENTION=19895]Daryeh[/MENTION]

Lingua franca | Define Lingua franca at Dictionary.com

lingua franca
[frang-kuh]


noun, plural lingua francas, linguae francae [ling-gwee fran-see] (Show IPA)
1.
any language that is widely used as a means of communication among speakers of other languages.

Since you seem stubborn in not even looking up the definitiion, It's here so no more of this "cultural hegemony" stuff.

[KBM2010]

There's a degree of mutual intelligibility between Dutch, German, Swedish, Norwegian and Danish too .....

only in varrying degree more than between Persian and English (after all both are Indo-European languages) You lost all credibility. Your a troll.


As far as westtoxification...

Isn't Libanon pretty Westtoxified for a country with Arabic language?

Troll

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Troll

How many screen names do you have here?

[KBM2010]

How many screen names do you have here?

Just One.

Your a troll.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Just One.

Your a troll.

So you just magically joined the forum just to get involved in THIS thread in particular? Riiiiight, You're just this One1/KingdomofHeaven person.

You're*

[KBM2010]

So you just magically joined the forum just to get involved in THIS thread in particular? Riiiiight, You're just this One1/KingdomofHeaven person.

You're*

Scroll down, There are 1000s of guests on this Forum...I joined in the random topic that are discussed most.