Tajeeks want to partition Afghanistan in Mazar

[DaZahroJaam.]

partition is not an option. I don't want to hear that word.

[KGODB]

the point is you are an apologist fr criminals and have failed miserably and now acting like a chicken without a head.

lets play your game

Dagarwal "there is no evidence for your claims ,it is just propaganda for a certain agenda,pashtuns didnt mistreat anyone."

KGODB "there is proof ,it is called Kite runner ,DUH"

Dagarwal "hundreds of thousands of Pashtuns have been killed so far, displaced and their lands and properties are stolen ,they have used deplieted uranium shells which causes deformaties and all sorts of cancers"

KGODB "they are so fed up with two hundred years of being sex slaves of Pashtuns locked in some dark dungeon ,btw the deplieted uranium will teach a good lesson to those kids ,those oppresor criminals."

for a random anonymous poster, you sure know alot about me all of a sudden

im no interested in a conversation with an intellectual midget who probably has a shrine to me in his closet. carry on child.

[KGODB]

explain it for us, please.

There is absolutely no appetite whatsoever for a partition amongst any group in Afghanistan

There has never been a raising of arms against the state for independence.

Never happened, never will.

Any partition talk is simply online musings from losers and non factors

No Tajik, Uzbek or Hazara worth his salt would advocate partition

Those are the established facts

Now the argument is, well these things can change. Sure, but it wont, because its not in their interests to be separate

A separate land locked northern afghanistan wont do anything an intact afghanistan can or cant do

these minorities are able to ally with each other to play off Pashtun fears, but in a separate state their ethnocentrism will come to play a major role.

for all the tomans in their pockets these minorities realize iran is not to be trusted

what the minorities want, is an intact afghanistan with a very weak centre so they can basically do whatever the fukk they want in their respect fiefdoms

[Kushan Prince]

Im not interested in playing a game of atrocity count. All Im saying, and objective facts back me up, is that there have been crimes committed by both sides, and there are legitimate grievances on both sides

now if you want to play a game of who killed who first, you can do so. I wont stop you. Itll get you no where though.

Once an individual gets to a certain age, intellect and maturity they become more concerned with possibilities of solutions then the nature of the problem

Actually this so called "game" proves my point on why pashtuns are so bitter at each other. If these minorities didn't attack and start a race war invoking pashtuns first then we would all be living in peace. Everyone back stabs each other and everyone points fingers at each other. If these Tajiks weren't so narrow minded and jealous, we would all be living in a peaceful Afghanistan right now.

[Kushan Prince]

,,partition'' would work if they collectively want a partition or beeing able to topple the current regime. If they want partition we can´t do much against them. Another war would just deepen that feeing for partition. Discussing our problems in a Jirga and clearing all our misstrusts would help the nation. Foremost it is important to threat everyone equally an aspect never was fullfilled in Afghanistan.

A partition can never work unless pashtuns are in power. They want unity as do other ethnic groups like Hazaras annd Pashais, uzbeks etc. Most tajiks have this inflated ego that they are better than everyone else which gets on a lot of people's nerve. But as long as Pashtuns are in power, we have nothing to worry about.

[Khostai]

Isn´t that a contrary version to your prior post? I agree the war of the last three decades radicalized everyone in Afghanistan but northern people were always civilized than southern people. Just look to the urbane population which consists mostly of Tajeks. Even if you visit a Pashtun village in the north you will not find much differences to south-eastern regions. The radicalization of northerners may resulted from the wars but the radicalization and backwardness of Pashtuns mostly results because of ignorance and our backwardness. Northerners are in culture and language superiour to us because they are socially better developed and have a deeper understanding of the world. They are more moderate and believe in an gateless world while we believe only on ourself. Afterwards 2001 the northern and western region experienced a wave of informations, new elites, better education and opportunities. Many Pashtuns today send their children to the north and west in the hope their children can get the same chances as those inhabitents. While Pashtuns are majority with 65% of the population we suffer greatly from other languages and cultures. When I was on an event in Dutch Abdul Bari Jahani explained it to me that Pashtuns lack of everything because we are a weak element in Afghanistan. We dominate the country, the country runs on our identity but we are lack of social and educational developments.

Nice try littel Tajeek **** that you are.
and LOL @ Tajeek culture being supirior wuhahaha, please go and visit Herat where chiled brides, burning of women and beating of women is abundend, and not to forget the Bacha Bazi, you can shove your disgusting culture in to you disgusting yellow ass oke.

[Registerwal]

I'm not Tajek but if you like to talk about child-brides and bacha bazi take a look at the three or four links, you racist monkey! Everyone who say something against your view must be a Tajek *****. Why you need to insult someone? Where are the Admins?

Afghan farmer beheaded with a PENKNIFE for refusing to let drug lords take daughter and sell her as a sex slave | Mail Online

Human trafficking, prostitution thrive in Afghanistan | Asia | DW.DE | 24.10.2012

Afghanistan’s Opium Brides: Who Is Working on the Issue? | Opium Brides | FRONTLINE | PBS

December 28, 2010 |





Every culture has its dark secrets, the practices that many people on the outside would frown on or shudder at. There’s Mormons and polygamy. Hindus and sati. Muslims and virgin brides. And many other cultures that have very specific practices associated with th



The list is endless but it's also not comprehensive. Not all Mormons practice polygamy -- in fact a comparatively few percentage of them do. The same for Hindus and sati or Muslims and virgin brides. Over time, increased awareness of these issues and any problems associated with them, has led to laws that provide rights to the victims of these practices. But even more effective than laws are social changes. Society's rejection of these practices are a more powerful enforcement against them than laws can ever be, it seems. Which is why public awareness is critical to changing these practices from the ground up.
This week, the WikiLeaks cables publicized another culture's dark secret: the Pashtuns and bacha bazi, the ancient practice of pedophilia by men against boys. Not all Pashtuns practice it, but like other dark secrets in other cultures, it is an inescapable fact that it exists and is strongly associated with Pashtuns.
When the issue arises, so does the sensitivity. No one wants their culture to be known for a horrible thing. But the subject cannot and should not be avoided. Bacha bazi -- literally "playing with children" -- is practiced amongst Pashtuns in Afghanistan, Pakistan and elsewhere. Not all of them do it, but it is acceptable among certain sections of Pashtun culture, which is why it is openly practiced. And also why, as the WikiLeaks cables demonstrated, the American contractor DynCorp took advantage of the practice to appease local Pashtuns in an area of Afghanistan in which they needed to rein in the locals to be able to continue their work there.
It was very easy for DynCorp to bankroll bacha bazi parties for those local Pashtuns who practice it. They arranged for the boys to be purchased, for the venue, and for the guests who would attend the party. Some Pashtuns came. They saw. And they partied.
Children were abused on American military dollars. The cables are undoubtedly an embarrassment to the war effort. Whereas previously bacha bazi was used in the media to stress the necessity of the war effort – "these people need to be liberated," so the theory went – the WikiLeaks cables have completely reversed that notion. Americans are clearly not liberators if they are promoting child abuse instead of preventing and prohibiting it.
But the bigger picture remains that bacha bazi was there to be exploited.
It exists, and Pashtuns need to talk about it so they can make the changes from within. Pedophilia is not a phenomenon exclusive to one culture. It tends to thrive in any situation where males and females are segregated, whether that is a religious institution, a culture of segregated boarding schools, or a closed society. Bacha bazi is particularly troubling to many people because it is not only pedophilia but culturally accepted pedophilia – amongst those Pashtuns who accept and practice it openly. The sensitivities are even greater because of this but the fact that they exist suggests that many Pashtuns realize the practice is problematic.
The WikiLeaks cables are just as damning to the war effort as they are to the Pashtuns whose silence allows this practice to continue. Many Pashtuns are speaking up, but clearly, many more still need to.

LAHORE -- The first time Aziz, a lean, dark-haired 20-year-old in this bustling cultural capital, had sex with a man, he was a pretty, illiterate boy of 16. A family friend took him to his house, put on a Pakistani-made soft-porn video, and raped him. Now, says Aziz (who gives only his first name), he is "addicted" to sex with men, so he hangs around Lahore's red-light districts, getting paid a few rupees for sex. At night, he goes home to his parents and prays to Allah to forgive him.
In the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, homosexuality is not only illegal, it is a crime punishable by whipping, imprisonment, or even death. But across all classes and social groups, men have sex with men. In villages throughout the country, young boys are often forcibly "taken" by older men, starting a cycle of abuse and revenge that social activists and observers say is the common pattern of homosexual sex in Pakistan. Often these boys move to the cities and become prostitutes. Most people know it happens -- from the police to the wives of the men involved.
In some areas, homosexual sex is even tacitly accepted -- though still officially illegal -- as long as it doesn't threaten traditional marriage. In the Northwest Frontier Province (NWFP), which shares many tribal and cultural links with neighboring Afghanistan, the ethnic Pashtun men who dominate the region are renowned for taking young boys as lovers. No one has been executed for sodomy in Pakistan's recent history, but across the border in Afghanistan, the Taliban (who are also overwhelmingly Pashtun) executed three men for sodomy in 1998 by bulldozing a brick wall over them, burying two of them alive. (The third survived, which meant, according to Taliban law, that he was innocent, so he was taken to a hospital for treatment.)
Among Pakistan's urban elite, there is a growing community of men who identify as gay, some of whom even come out to their friends. Men meet on Internet bulletin boards, or at private pool parties with lots of rented boys and heavy security. But they are a tiny, terrified minority, living in cities such as Lahore, Karachi, or Islamabad, where the cultural elite has carved out a niche for itself. In a country where alcohol is forbidden except to Christians, dancing is banned, and the Koran guides many aspects of criminal law, such men rarely step outside of their protected world. (Because women in Pakistan inhabit, for the most part, a strictly private realm, it is difficult to say with any certainty how common lesbian relationships may be.)
Homosexuals in Pakistan walk a fine line between harsh legal and cultural prohibition and some form of unspoken social acceptance. "Islamic tradition frowns on but acknowledges male-male sex, and this plays a role in permitting clandestine sex so long as it is not allowed to interfere with family life, which is of paramount importance," the San Francisco-based sociologist Stephen O. Murray writes in "Sociolegal Control of Homosexuality: A Multi-Nation Comparison," a collection of scholarly essays published in 1997. Further complicating matters, the most common form of male homosexuality in Pakistan, according to Murray, is pederasty, where an older man entices or coerces (sometimes forcibly) a younger boy into sex.

Among the many obstacles facing men who have sex with men in Pakistan is this close association, in the eyes of many Pakistanis, between homosexuality and exploitation. But they face their own psychological barriers as well. Of the dozens of men interviewed for this article, almost none who admitted to having homosexual sex identified themselves as "gay." (All would give only their first names, which could not be verified, or would speak only anonymously.) Most do not even believe that homosexuality should be legal.
Aziz says he now enjoys sex with other men, but he believes that's only because he isn't able to have sex with women, who are largely inaccessible -- even in red-light districts, where there are many more men than women for rent. And like most Pakistani men who have homosexual sex, Aziz believes it is wrong. "The Verses of the Koran do not allow it," he says. "That's the only thing that matters."
. . .
According to the Koran, when the prophet Lot saw that his people had been engaged in sodomy and debauchery, he said, "Come ye to men, instead of women, lustfully? Ye are indeed a people given to excess." When they refused to repent their sins, Allah destroyed them: "And we rained a rain upon them: and see what was the end of the wicked!"
The lines don't seem to leave much room for interpretation. But Faisal Alam, founder of the Al-Fatiha Foundation, a Washington-based organization for gay and lesbian Muslims, argues that Lot's people were killed not because they had homosexual sex, but because they were forcing sex on each other. That interpretation is unlikely to hold much weight with Pakistan's religious leaders. The matter is not open for debate here -- not among mullahs, academics, or even activists.
Like many Pakistani men who have sex with men, Aziz believes he is plagued by a "satan," or demon, that makes him desire men. Veteran human rights lawyer Hina Jilani, who lives in Lahore and specializes in women's rights cases, says the inconsistent application of Sharia (Islamic law) and Pakistani criminal law has blurred the line between abuse and gay sex, and the emphasis on Islamic values has imbued the very word "homosexuality" with a moral color.
"Here we have two totally different issues: exploited boys and sex workers versus consensual sex," Jilani says. "But the majority of people will think of them as the same. Even people like myself who do understand this issue haven't been able to take it up, except in the context of violence against people on basis of sex orientation."Jilani says there are innumerable cases of young boys -- some sex workers, some not -- charged under Pakistan's sodomy law, even if they have been enticed into sex.

Jilani, who has defended dozens of children accused under the law, says they spend long years in jail awaiting trial; their families are stigmatized and often forced to disown them. In most parts of Pakistan, it's easier to lure a boy into sex than it is to catch a glimpse of a woman's legs. Sometimes it doesn't take more than the promise of a new cricket bat.
A 16-year-old who identifies himself only as Khurram knows all about that. Born in Dina, a small city in central Pakistan, his father died when he was young, and by the time he was 8 he was sent out to support his family. He says his employer sexually assaulted him, and he eventually realized that if he let it happen, he would make more money than he would serving chai. So he moved to the big city. Now he lives beside the bus stand in Rawalpindi, sleeping during the day and emerging at dusk to wait for work. For less than a dollar, he'll let a man have sex with him on a string bed behind a tobacco shop. "I don't like what I do," he says sorrowfully. "I am doing it so my sister can go to school."
. . .
There are no discernible red-light districts in the Northwest Frontier Province. In Peshawar, the provincial capital, women billow through the dusty streets in white "shuttlecock" burkas, named for the netted veil over the face. Many of the city's movie theaters have been shut down, and playing music in local buses is banned.
Ruled by an alliance of six Islamic parties who recently declared Sharia to be supreme over Pakistani national law, the NWFP is one of the most religiously conservative regions of Pakistan. This is the province that helped give rise to the Taliban, and where Al Qaeda leaders -- including Osama bin Laden -- continue to seek refuge, according to the Pakistani government.
Yet this is also the region of Pakistan where homosexuality is most tolerated -- however quietly. Among the Pashtun majority, having a young, attractive boyfriend is a symbol of prestige and wealth for affluent middle-aged men. Indeed, Pashtun men often keep a young boy in their hujra, the male room of the house that the wife rarely enters. The practice is so common that there are various slang terms for the boyfriends in different regional languages: larke (boy), warkai, alec.
According to many people interviewed in Peshawar, there's a strict code of behavior in these relationships. The boy is always the passive partner in sex and has often been coerced into the relationship; he is given food and clothes by his partner, and is in may cases forbidden to leave the relationship or marry. (In theory, the boys could marry when they're grown, but they are generally considered damaged, and end up wandering the streets as outcasts.)

Sayed Mudassir Shah, a human rights activist based in Peshawar, believes this goes on in part because of the extreme austerity of the traditional culture. Even after marriage, women are kept separate from men (except at night), and a strict interpretation of Islam discourages sports, music, and TV. Indeed, says Sayed, the practice is deeply embedded in the local culture. "It is so common to take boy lovers, that it is part of our Pashtun folklore," Sayed says. "One story tells of a wife crying to her husband that he has made her jealous, because he is spending so much time in the hujra with his boyfriend. This is folklore, but it is similar in life."
Sex between men is also commonplace in Pakistan's gender-segregated madrassas, or religious schools, where students and mullahs will go for months without setting eyes on a woman. Here, more than anywhere else in Pakistan, the situation resembles that found among prison inmates, where sex is mostly about availability and dominance rather than preference. In many cases, families take their sons to madrassas because they cannot afford to raise them themselves. A researcher with the AIDS Prevention Association of Pakistan (who asked that her name not be used) cited a saying such parents have for the teachers when they bring them their sons: "His flesh is yours, but his bones are ours."
. . .
A spirited, self-confident young man of 25 who lives in Islamabad, the nation's capital, and identifies himself only as Sajat, tells me that he first had sex with a man at a religious school in a central Pakistani village. But unlike most madrassa students and the boys in the red-light districts, Sajat's first sexual encounter with a man was by choice. Now a well-paid government servant in Islamabad, he hoots with laughter when he describes his preference for young, "hot-blooded, fighting soldier men," and happily recounts his regular trawls for boys through Islamabad's parks.
But Sajat's irreverent, openly gay self abruptly disappears when marriage comes up. He admits that he is engaged to a match of his parents' choosing, and will marry in the next two years. "Nature has made females for males, so after I get married, I will stop having sex with men," he intones, as though dutifully.
Indeed, gay men in Pakistan usually succumb to family pressure to marry, and those who are brave or rich enough to refuse to marry live under constant threat. Human rights workers say that the dearth of Pakistani gay-rights or community groups heightens the isolation and fear of those who identify -- and live -- as homosexuals. There are groups working against the spread of AIDS in Pakistan, but their work is often impeded by the cultural disapproval of homosexual sex.

Haji Muhammad Hanif, the general secretary of the AIDS Prevention Association of Pakistan, says that when he talks to male sex workers in the red-light districts of Lahore, he first asks them, "Do you know that gay sex is a heinous crime?" According to Pakistan's official figures, there were only some 2,000 cases of AIDS in Pakistan as of June 2003, but data collection is limited by social taboos. Estimates by the World Health Organization and UNAIDS put the 2002 figure at 78,000.
One bright spot for gay men in Pakistan is the Internet. There are several online bulletin boards that function as city-specific dating sites for gay men. The men who advertise on the sites are generally blunt about what they want: "Masculine Top looking for hot sex in Islamabad," runs a typical listing. One site, Pakistan Gays, tries to be more of a resource, with articles about homosexuality, health advice, and an anonymous question-answer service. There's even an audio version of sections of the Koran available for download, which shows the extent to which gay men in Pakistan hold onto their Muslim identity.
Pakistan Gays was founded two years ago by a middle-class accounting student in Lahore who spoke with me only on the condition of anonymity. He runs the site from Internet cafes so his family won't find out. As of June, the site had signed up 569 Pakistani members. Of those who registered, 302 identified themselves as gay, 241 as bisexual, and the rest as "transgender."
The website's founder is 20, and identifies as gay. He says he is in love with an Indian man he met over the Internet, but he harbors no hope of living in a gay relationship in either Pakistan or India, where homosexuality is also illegal and tolerance of gays is not much greater than in Pakistan. His plan is to refuse his parents' demands that he marry, and emigrate to the West with his Indian lover.
"It is difficult to be homosexual in Pakistan," he says, "because you always fear that if the people around you knew about your sexuality, what bad feelings they would have about you. We think that we are born this way, but still we feel we are doing wrong."

[Registerwal]

A partition can never work unless pashtuns are in power. They want unity as do other ethnic groups like Hazaras annd Pashais, uzbeks etc. Most tajiks have this inflated ego that they are better than everyone else which gets on a lot of people's nerve. But as long as Pashtuns are in power, we have nothing to worry about.

We may again have all key positions today but we have not the power. power is based on the security and secret service apparatus. Kabul´s reputation is limited to the province, not beyond. The situation of Pashtuns in the north get worse by everyday we pass. I posted today two articles. You should read them. I can repeat myself. We need a national jirga to solve all our internal problems.

[Kushan Prince]

LOL that article has to be the most dumbest degrading thing i have ever read on here. Pashtuns don't practice bacha Bazi this pratcise is more common in the north which where a lot of tajiks are. Tajiks and uzbeks practice this the most. Bacha Bazi is Farsi term, not Pashto. This disgusting culture of the Tajiks was brought by the greeks. It is against Islam and Pashtunwali. If a pashtun in the south or north was ever caught participating, mark my word his hands and eyes would be cut of. Pedophilia and homosexuality is a serious sin in Islam and Pashtun culture.

[Khostai]

@ Registerwal what has Paki disguting culture to do with Pashtuns?
You are really stupid, Bacha Bazi is an Tajeek and Uzback culture, you are not Pashtun so that's why you blame this **** on us, when in reality you disguting peopel do that.
Typical Tajeek racist pig, I knew you never can be a Pashtun calling the degenerate culture of the Farsibans supirior wuhahahaha.

[Zemaryalai]

KGODB,

Have you been to Afghanistan lately? Have you been around their intellectuals and elite inside Afghanistan? If you haven't, I have. The Tajeeks are doing everything undercover and after 2014 they will partition Afghanistan in less than a day because of our ignorance and denial. The Tajeeks in Afghanistan are everyday talking about their Khorasan and are discriminating with anything associated with Afghan or Pashtun. Don't get fooled by people like Amrullah Saleh for speaking and writing in Pashto on BBC because the ones who are trying to show themselves pro Afghan are the most hardcore advocates of partition. We Pashtuns have been in a deep sleep for centuries and our ignorance and hotheadedness and stubbornness has caused our decline. If we continue this then we wont have a watan, a Afghanistan in the near future.

[Niazi]

Well Taliban want Afghanistan as Pakistan dump land,

None Pashtun population in Afghanistan are very proud of their culture, I don't blame them for wanting separate country , Today Pashtuns are the worst enemy of themselves ,

Tajik ,Hazaras ,Uzbek and other should form a separate country ,Due to Pashtuns Afghanistan as country failed .

[torkham]

I agree with zemaryalai on the point that many [brave (read ignorant of history)] tajiks are mouthing off khorasan a little too frequently.
I have tended to speak of slaying ghadar types, but now with age and fear of allah I try to think of a muslim as a brother, against all my prejudices, and remember my tajik gwandai of my childhood, they lived amongst us and we knew Pashtuns are afghans, and tajik have Tajikistan. It was never oppressive, but it was crystal clear.
Now with greater communication, from tv to internet, every isolated tajik, from chagcharan, to Kandahar, to badakshan is hypnotised with khorasan, and every such neighbour when ever together, will cheer to khorasan behind shut windows while shushing his index finger in hush.
It is not that i now reject my strengthened desire of equality of muslim brothers, but the flawed impetus growing amongst Tajiks to force a balance in an inherently imbalanced power dynamic. of course this is induced by external factor viz. US being partisan to the NA.
I feel in Afghanistan the Pashtuns will not allow this imbalance, and Tajik proponents will think long and hard before heading to gain support from Pashtuns (oxymoron or antithesis), but it is important for Pashtuns who do not have easy access to 'ground reality' to be aware of whats going on.

[torkham]

As for young Maseed, he is entitled to his opinions, ocean apart as they are, question is who takes him seriously here?

[ufo973]

THIS THREAD PROVES WE ARE THE DUMBEST NATION ON EARTH!!! HURRAY... LET'S PARTY NOW

I always thought that punjabies are the smartest people on earth. they were able to divide us and break us like no one did before, but looking at a few posts at this thread one can know how easy it is to provoke Afghans HAHAHAHAHAHA

And i have to mention that in my entire life i have not meet even one tajik/uzbek/hazara who taught this country should be divided leave alone the idea of a country named Khurasan

ANYBODY WHO HAS A LITTLE SHAME, WOULD STOP CONTINUING THIS THREAD

PS: PLEASE DELETE THIS THREAD, I AM AFRAID IF A PUNJABI SEES THIS THREAD HE WOULD LAUGH AT US HIS ASS OFF LOUD (HES IZAT BA PATE NASHI)