Tableeghi Jumat: the indirect cause of extremism and terrorism

[faye]

it's good to hear a perspective from someone who has personal experience, luffy.
i have never heard of this group before this article by badlun.
as with every belief system, various members will behave in various ways.

[Afghanistan2010]

I said it to see who would call me on it. Not only did you not correct me, you adapted it and are using it on others. Why?? Is it because you can't tell that it's wrong and are just looking for an excuse to make yourself look good or because you actually believe in it??


Here is a lighter. Set yourself on fire...

Brother Dagarwaal,since when do you spoke ?

[Friend]

tu es mon belle pute en abbottabad, j'irai te baiser l'annee prochaine.

Control control

[ډګروال]

what is jola? So i am your new evil kafir/hindu villian, sorry i am not going to entertain you.

you are already entertaining us with your shapeshifting fakeshtunpakinationalism

[Badlun]

the demand for well trained international terrorists must be extremely high. Someone who is capable of butchering his own should have no problem handling the rest. Why, Osama came to help afghans with the war and we are still not done celebrating that victory.

Funny how you promote war and consider it a solution for peace yet have a problem with science because somehow it's linked to uranium..

This thread is so disappointing..for every one person who is out there to do something good, there is five hundred other who will do nothing but brew hatred amongst others and come up with different ways destroying things.

No doubt demand for well trained international terrorists is very high but Tableeghi Jumaat is preparing them almost free of cost.

I have passed five times se roza( 3 days) , two times hafta(7 days) and have gone to Raiwand their headquarters in Pakistan many times and have seen with with my own eyes how they brain wash young generation to do away totally with this world and prepare for life after death.

For a suicide bomber this is the best training as he or she once understands that my real destination is paradise will definitely blows himself/herself off to enter the heavens and to be with the virgins.

[Friend]

No doubt demand for well trained international terrorists is very high but Tableeghi Jumaat is preparing them almost free of cost.

I have passed five times se roza( 3 days) , two times hafta(7 days) and have gone to Raiwand their headquarters in Pakistan many times and have seen with with my own eyes how they brain wash young generation to do away totally with this world and prepare for life after death.

For a suicide bomber this is the best training as he or she once understands that my real destination is paradise will definitely blows himself/herself off to enter the heavens and to be with the virgins.

What a stupid and irrelevant argument linking something for something else.men who have killed highest number of human beings, were they tablighees? They graduated from the contemporary universities and colleges then why dont you write about these unis which harbour terorism and the tools for the destruction of humanity like nuclear weapons and other.

[Badlun]

how did you meet 47 families that have joined tableeghs, then taliban? were you doing a survey?
some of the muslims complaints i read, against this group, is that they are too passive and don't fight for muslims rights, against western imperialism and mistreatment.

I remained with the group for many days, few weeks and have visited their headquarters in Raiwand many times. I have first hand knowledge of their activities, teachings, rituals and practices. I was once fully atatched to this group. I still remember their 6 numbers by heart.

In my own family I have few of them. I know some families of my friends who are attached with Tableegh. I was curious when I saw people joining Taliban who were once Tableeghis and then started finding out more information and more people joining Taliban. When I counted them these were about 50 families. One family may have 2 or more tableeghis who joined terrorists.

If I have time and resources I can conduct an excellent research and survey on this issue. This topic is meant for this purpose to get more data , information and knowledge on the subject.

They are passive and making other people so much passive that they
consider life meaningless. Such people are on high demand for terrorists who have no desire for worldly things, are extremely radical and fanatic. What else terrorists want!

[Badlun]

I agree with you that they are "silent killers" of pashtun nationalism and pashtun society. Moreover for them progress, development and modernism are just "wordly" affairs, to which one should not give importance and should only care about preparation for "akhirat". They tell students that this school and college education would be of no use in akhirat. Many hardworking and ambitious young student got spoiled, stopped taking interest in studies due to "hard work" of tablighis. I would give you example, they dont consider doctory as service of islam, for them it should'nt be a priority. They simply dont understand that islam covers all aspect of life. Because of their regressive thoughts and their innovations/bidat suspision, i stopped participating in their activities.

Excellent analysis. I only disagree with one point that Islam covers all aspects of life. This is always my contention that Islam only covers beliefs, worship and ethics. All other injunctions fall in these 3 categories.

Tableeghis basically practise the religion only. They only concentrate on beliefs, worship and morality. Out of their 6 famous points one is belief in God and prophet, second prayers, third remembrance of Allah, fourth taking care or respect of Muslims, fifth good intentions and sixth preaching.

All these are perfectly what I always discuss that only these are the basic tenets of Islam. Theoretically I should totally agree with their concept of Islam. They like Taliban, JI and Akhwans do not believe or struggle for an Islamic state.

The problem is that they after extreme absorption in religion try to change the culture and social norms. Once one is involved in Tableegh will do away with all other aspects of life. At least other aspects of life will not be his priority. This leads to radicalize the society and entails into preparation of ground for terrorists.

[Badlun]

it's good to hear a perspective from someone who has personal experience, luffy.
i have never heard of this group before this article by badlun.
as with every belief system, various members will behave in various ways.

Yes from Luffy we are getting very good analysis of the group. Like him I have remain attached to Tableeghi Jumaat and I share with him what he has experienced.

Behavior is response to stimulus and stimulus is any change in environment. Tableeghis behavor is product of their own environment and their collective behavor is drastically changing the behavior of Pashtun society. This group needs of to identified, analyzed and their movement must be stopped otherwise at least Pashtuns will go beyond stone age. Taliban will always have ground ready to operate.

As mentioned above now even they are imposing Urdu on Pashtuns. All such steps will have far reaching effect on Pashtun society.

[Friend]

Also I add one thing more that Tablighi movement is for the last 100 years and taliban are just 20 years old so there is no relation between taliban and tabligh... I remember when I was i swat and taliban were there. They hated tablighis and call them with different names. They even tried to close their center. so your argument has no base. you are just giving unrealistic assumption which have nothing to do with reality.

[faye]

it is interesting to hear your personal experience also and i understand your concern but badlun, you appear to consider the taliban as just a terrorist group.
i don't agree with some of the controlling by taliban of afghans, nor their killing of innocent civilians, but some people must join the taliban to fight against an invasion of their country, or because of revenge for deaths of their family members, by a group of westerners who actually care too much for the material world.
the americans are deviously, wheeling and dealing on behalf of multinationals and the money elite, to take control of afghanistan, in more ways than one and i believe, also for tactical positioning in case they want to invade iran or take control of pakistan and it's nuclear weapons.

[randolph85]

these guys have been attacked by salafi inspired groups in pakistan, so equating the 2 is nonsense. i am not a supporter of this movement but i won't make false statements on them either. if disregarding the dunya is the means in which suicide bombers are created, then you would have sufis blowing themselves up all over the place. real sufis, not toramana sufis.

[Badlun]

What a stupid and irrelevant argument linking something for something else.men who have killed highest number of human beings, were they tablighees? They graduated from the contemporary universities and colleges then why dont you write about these unis which harbour terorism and the tools for the destruction of humanity like nuclear weapons and other.

First I do not say Tableeghis are terrorists but the ones who prepares ground for terrorism by making the society radical, ultra conservative , obscurantist and focused only on religion while ignoring other aspects of life. They are the indirect cause of terrorism and this is a matter to be investigated further. So far their role in indirectly promoting terrorism has not caught the attention of experts because of the clever strategy of the Tableeghi Jumat.

Terrorism whosoever do it is a crime against humanity. If the ignorant Taliban perpetrate this heinous act or educated persons, the effect remains the same. Many Salafi educated people also commit it and must be denounced like Taliban.

[Badlun]

Also I add one thing more that Tablighi movement is for the last 100 years and taliban are just 20 years old so there is no relation between taliban and tabligh... I remember when I was i swat and taliban were there. They hated tablighis and call them with different names. They even tried to close their center. so your argument has no base. you are just giving unrealistic assumption which have nothing to do with reality.

Yes it is interesting that you will find Taliban against Tableeghis and Tableeghis against Taliban. Both have points of conversion as well as points of diversion.
They agree on their belief system as both are Deobandis and near to Wahabis/salafis. Both mix culture and society with religion. But they differ on the way to change society. Taliban adopt violent means while Tableeghis do it by peaceful means. Tableeghis do not involve themselves in politics while Taliban fight for the so called islamic state.

I have met a leader of Tableeghis who told me that they were received as state guests in Kabul when Taliban were in power. They have soft corner for each other specially in Afghanistan.

How old is one movement and how the other is not a valid argument. One older movement can catch up with a newer one and vice versa.

Many Taliban now in Waziristan have come to the conclusion that Tableeghis should be treated well as they prepare the ground for them. The same has been noted in Karak district of Pakistan where Tableeghis and Taliban had made similar front against others. These were told to me by Pashtuns from both Waziristan and Karak.

[Badlun]

it is interesting to hear your personal experience also and i understand your concern but badlun, you appear to consider the taliban as just a terrorist group.
i don't agree with some of the controlling by taliban of afghans, nor their killing of innocent civilians, but some people must join the taliban to fight against an invasion of their country, or because of revenge for deaths of their family members, by a group of westerners who actually care too much for the material world.
the americans are deviously, wheeling and dealing on behalf of multinationals and the money elite, to take control of afghanistan, in more ways than one and i believe, also for tactical positioning in case they want to invade iran or take control of pakistan and it's nuclear weapons.

This is another debate however briefly I will say that Taliban are just a terrorist group and do not represent any movement of independence or struggle against a foreign invasion.

All Afghans are not Taliban and all Taliban are not Afghans. We have an established Afghan government against Taliban. All non Pashtuns(about 40 to 50 %) Afghans are against Taliban. All Pashtuns are also not Taliban. There are non Afghan Taliban as in Pakistan as well as groups like in Mali who are not Taliban but have the same ideology and the same approach. Thus Taliban is the name of a trans Afghan ideology and movement.

If Americans are in Afghanistan to control the region then why are they leaving in 2014? Why they do not make Afghanistan their permanent Territory so that to guard their interests for ever.

Americans are not there as invaders but helpers of Afghans, the world and their own selves to get rid of the menace of Taliban. If they were invaders then we would have seen a national Afghan movement against them not only Taliban who may not represent even 5% of the Afghan population.