22 dead in Kabul hotel attack

[BarakzaiAbdali]

That's the point; they could..but they also could not. Your attempt at trying to use that situation was a poor platform to work from.

The analogy of physiological events which can be traced in an anatomical system; is not the same mechanism which how sociopolitical events happen.

This issue that the natives themselves approve of the act is nothing more than a narrative.

Either you dont have the time or you are just running my clock, but you are not reading what I wrote. A part of what I was responding to initially also dealt with Shamlawar's statement of this being a PR disaster. My point is that the jury is out when it comes to teh Afghan populace and their view in my opinion. Just as you and Edward Said prefer that orientalists dont gloss their personal views over Eastern populations, I think its a fair thing for me and Shamlawar to discuss whether the populace A) Cares B) is depressed to the point of crying all night or C) relatively of the view that this is two groups of people that can go and both jump of the cliff and are outside agents (both wealthy government emigres and the insurgents). Could it be the all of Kabul will declare this Sphozmai day? Might be. Could Karzai declare this a day of mourning... might very well. My statement is simply that just because Scimitar and Barakzai feel one way doesnt mean that the average man on the streets in Kabul feels the same.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

"While there was no evidence of sexual activity of any sort, at many of the tables, amid pools of blood and unfinished meals, there were some cans of beer. Many restaurants in the Kabul area allow guests to bring their own alcohol."

"The lake is also a favorite spot for young Kabul residents who buy illegal alcohol and drink it in the picnic areas."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/23/wo...pagewanted=all

SO I dont know based on above Scimitar, I think Fazal Ahmad Manawi might not be of a different opinion or he may be.

[Admin Khan]

Stay on topic.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

wasn't talking to you attention seeking jerk.

you were talking about me or trying to in some fabricated caricature. Thus my response was valid.

now stop derailing the thread please.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

"While there was no evidence of sexual activity of any sort, at many of the tables, amid pools of blood and unfinished meals, there were some cans of beer. Many restaurants in the Kabul area allow guests to bring their own alcohol."

"The lake is also a favorite spot for young Kabul residents who buy illegal alcohol and drink it in the picnic areas."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/23/wo...pagewanted=all

SO I dont know based on above Scimitar, I think Fazal Ahmad Manawi might not be of a different opinion or he may be.

The consumption of alcohol does not warrant the death penalty even under Islamic Law; so even if this was the case, the murder is inexcusable. "Some cans of beer" is not an evidence that the Taliban were rightfully murdering people.

[Admin Khan]

I stand corrected, the latest statement says:
"prostitution, alcohol, immorality"

additionally this is now in:

Reuters journalist Hamid Shalizi reported that the guests were a party of wealthy Afghans.

Exactly, and this is where my problem arises. Why attack a hotel, when there is an assembly line of this right behind a mosque. Most notably, evidence exists for the assembly line, but little to no credible evidence is available for spozhmai hotel.

[Shah-i-Kot]

'


Yes I get disproven; yet you've just been exposed as a clueless dimwit, while my statements were corroborated by others who have been to Afghanistan, please save yourself whatever delusion of self respect you thought you had.

You aren't aware of anything, you speak as if what applies for Pakistani Nationals applies for what happens in Afghanistan.

now hush,

You dont admit that you are disproven. In fact look what you are doing with Barakzai yet again- circular nonsense repetition. I was proven wrong as I do not know much about the details of alliances in the civil war., and you get all excited like a freak.. LOL


Even then, guess what clown, NA is still a majority non-Pashtun group.


Look buddy, you are American born and raised, never stepped foot in any part of Pashtunistan at all.

[Admin Khan]

you are American born and raised, never stepped foot in any part

1)There is nothing wrong with being American born and raised.
2)If you don't stop derailing the thread, expect more bans to follow.

Consider this your final warning. Now back to the thread.

[MostafaM]

This is a predominantly non-Pashtun area.

what is there is to be suprised about in regards to pimping and prostitutes in Kabul. Northern Alliance runs brothels in Kabul and the North and even pimp their daughters and mothers.

This has been happening in the North for a long time. In Kabul, there was an outcry back in 2006, when prostitution was so open.

Unfortunatly you fool are not Afghan and don´t know who inhabits Qargha Area of Kabul:

mainly Pashtuns.

It´s half-way to Paghman, an area inhabitated by 70% Pashtuns and 30% Farsiwans and Sayyeds.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Exactly, and this is where my problem arises. Why attack a hotel, when there is an assembly line of this right behind a mosque. Most notably, evidence exists for the assembly line, but little to no credible evidence is available for spozhmai hotel.

As with Pearl Continental, I think they do. The question arises, who feeds them info? In this case Mr. Zabiullah appears to mention three vices and two out of the three appear to be corroborated with prostitution being the one that is not yet provable.

If you are asking my personal opinion, irrespective of the goals of the attack, yes, there are probably other places they could have gone after both in KP and Afghanistan, but this place presented to them the ideal mix of:

1) Government officials (proven in MSNBC article) and wealthy emigre elites:

"Reuters journalist Hamid Shalizi reported that the guests were a party of wealthy Afghans."
"Qargha Lake is one of Kabul's few options for weekend getaways. Restaurants and hotels that dot the shore are popular with Afghan government officials and businessmen, particularly on Thursday nights."

2) Alcohol, proven in the NY Times article:
"While there was no evidence of sexual activity of any sort, at many of the tables, amid pools of blood and unfinished meals, there were some cans of beer. Many restaurants in the Kabul area allow guests to bring their own alcohol."
"The lake is also a favorite spot for young Kabul residents who buy illegal alcohol and drink it in the picnic areas."
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/23/wo...pagewanted=all

3) It appears that the Afghan police are actively releasing propaganda to contradict the findings of the NY Times (i.e. the alcohol noted above) and aren't aware that independent findings contradict them:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...63a76362e2bde7

"That was disputed by Mohammad Zahir, criminal director for Kabul police, who said no foreigners were among the dead.
"The Taliban propaganda is saying that there was immoral activity there and that people were drinking alcohol," Zahir said. "That is totally wrong. These are people who had worked all week and had gone to the lake to have a restful dinner with their families. The view there is very good for relaxation. There is no alcohol.""

4) Note, the words being used by the media to describe the act:
"Brazen"
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...63a76362e2bde7

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...63a76362e2bde7

"Security at the lake is light compared with targets inside the Afghan capital, which has been hit frequently as the Taliban show they can still strike the seat of the Afghan government."

Very similar to when the Mehsud Taliban did this:
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-05-23/w...se?_s=PM:WORLD

So for these guys, its about impact as well. If what I am discussing with Scimitar above turns out to be true (i.e. the Kabul residents dont view it the way Westerners do) its a win-win situation for them in terms of appearing capable of still penetrating Kabul.

[Shah-i-Kot]

1)There is nothing wrong with being American born and raised.
2)If you don't stop derailing the thread, expect more bans to follow.

Consider this your final warning. Now back to the thread.

Final warning for what?

Excuse me.

This Revolution has never been to any part of Pashtunistan and he has no right to use Pakistani national as a way to divide people..

He simply is on the outside in all aspects.

He is American born and raised in the aspect that he grew up on McDonalds and pizza.

for the last time, tell the him to stop conversing with me

[Shah-i-Kot]

Unfortunatly you fool are not Afghan and don´t know who inhabits Qargha Area of Kabul:

mainly Pashtuns.

It´s half-way to Paghman, an area inhabitated by 70% Pashtuns and 30% Farsiwans and Sayyeds.

yeah, I admit I was under the impression that most of Kabul was Tajik, and I have never been to Afghanistan proper.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

I dont know why Admin is trying to hard to convince people.

[Shah-i-Kot]

As with Pearl Continental, I think they do. The question arises, who feeds them info? In this case Mr. Zabiullah appears to mention three vices and two out of the three appear to be corroborated with prostitution being the one that is not yet provable.

If you are asking my personal opinion, irrespective of the goals of the attack, yes, there are probably other places they could have gone after both in KP and Afghanistan, but this place presented to them the ideal mix of:

1) Government officials (proven in MSNBC article) and wealthy emigre elites:

"Reuters journalist Hamid Shalizi reported that the guests were a party of wealthy Afghans."
"Qargha Lake is one of Kabul's few options for weekend getaways. Restaurants and hotels that dot the shore are popular with Afghan government officials and businessmen, particularly on Thursday nights."

2) Alcohol, proven in the NY Times article:
"While there was no evidence of sexual activity of any sort, at many of the tables, amid pools of blood and unfinished meals, there were some cans of beer. Many restaurants in the Kabul area allow guests to bring their own alcohol."
"The lake is also a favorite spot for young Kabul residents who buy illegal alcohol and drink it in the picnic areas."
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/23/wo...pagewanted=all

3) It appears that the Afghan police are actively releasing propaganda to contradict the findings of the NY Times (i.e. the alcohol noted above) and aren't aware that independent findings contradict them:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...63a76362e2bde7

"That was disputed by Mohammad Zahir, criminal director for Kabul police, who said no foreigners were among the dead.
"The Taliban propaganda is saying that there was immoral activity there and that people were drinking alcohol," Zahir said. "That is totally wrong. These are people who had worked all week and had gone to the lake to have a restful dinner with their families. The view there is very good for relaxation. There is no alcohol.""

4) Note, the words being used by the media to describe the act:
"Brazen"
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...63a76362e2bde7

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...63a76362e2bde7

"Security at the lake is light compared with targets inside the Afghan capital, which has been hit frequently as the Taliban show they can still strike the seat of the Afghan government."

Very similar to when the Mehsud Taliban did this:
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-05-23/w...se?_s=PM:WORLD

So for these guys, its about impact as well. If what I am discussing with Scimitar above turns out to be true (i.e. the Kabul residents dont view it the way Westerners do) its a win-win situation for them in terms of appearing capable of still penetrating Kabul.

You really researched this up..

Good work

[MostafaM]

yeah, I admit I was under the impression that most of Kabul was Tajik, and I have never been to Afghanistan proper.

Then do yourself and the world a favour and put a bullet in your head.

ALL outskirts of Kabu, from Deh Sabzs to Khairkhana are mainly Pashtun inhabitated.
Let the Pashtuns inside Kabul alone.

I don´t know why people like you and other stupid teenagers with no clue about whatsoever come online and try to justify cowardice and murder.

Go to your country, live with the people a couple of months or years, understand their needs and wishes, then you can pick an AK-47 if you think it´s appropiate to liberate people by killing them.
Talking jibberish behind your computers by siding with the enemies of your own people will lead you nowhere.