If Pakistan is behind Taliban,why does the US not declare war on Pakistan

[Toramana]

Atleast you have the decency to differentiate between pashtuns and indic population of pakistan. I agree with your explaination of punjab and sindh as plain areas and difficult to defend. But you are forgetting that these same plain areas were defended from indian ground invasion in 1965 and 1971. Punjab and sindh defence is totaly dependant on pak army , if pak army is totally crushed, they are done...once occupied people of punjab and sindh wont dare to raise against conquering forces..like you said history confirms it.
I did'nt say pakistan army would defeat U.S, it would injure and bleed it. The best thing U.S can do is to do heavy bombardment of pakistan. Like talal said ground invasion is not possible without large number of casaulties.
And i dont agree with you about iran, iran's military is joke compared to pakistan.

Pak Army has not won even a single war so far---instead has been humiliated in all the wars it has fought with India (etc.) including the last one in Kargal. The only thing it knows is waging wars through proxies e.g., Taleban and Lashkar-i-Toiba, etc. Besides, it is not a professional army; rather is a business-industrial empire.

Furthermore, Pakistan is not a monolith ethnically and politically. In fact in any war, Baluchistan will be the first to go and side with the invading power US or whoever followed by Karachi, Sindh, and KPK, who would do the same. Once this happens, Punjabis will be on their four begging to be spared of total annihilation. Punjab is already besieged and on the back foot as can be seen from the repeated defeat of Pak Punjabi dominated army, political elite i.e., Nawaz Sharif, and Justice Choudri Iftikhar at the hands of Zardari.

Also, beginning 2014, there would also be economic sanctions on Pakistan. If a resourceful country like Iran couldn't sustain the sanctions, how a much weaker Pakistan can?

[badmash_khel]

Atleast you have the decency to differentiate between pashtuns and indic population of pakistan.
I did'nt say pakistan army would defeat U.S, it would injure and bleed it. The best thing U.S can do is to do heavy bombardment of pakistan. Like talal said ground invasion is not possible without large number of casaulties.
And i dont agree with you about iran, iran's military is joke compared to pakistan.

I think most pashtuns from Afghanistan differentiate between Pakistanis (indics) and pashtuns of pakhtunkhwa. sometimes they don't mentions it because they think everyone knows it so there is no need for explanation. Whenever pashtuns of Afghanistan say something about pakistanis they don't include pashtuns and balochis because they know they are different than indics and ofcourse pashtuns are the same on both sides. Maybe other Afghan citizens don't differentiate between different pakistanis but thats because they don't know about pashtun history nor about tribes and tribal connections.

To bleed USA you need a long war, like the one in Afghanistan, The USA has been fighting for over 10 years now and each day costs them upto 300 million US dollars. Against Pakistan the war will be tougher in the first few days because of pakistani army but it will also be soon over once the air force is destroyed. Don't forget the US sells F16 planes to Pakistan and they know all its weaknesses and know how to jam its software. Pakistan doesn't have the capability to hit US planes such as F-22. NO army in the world can fight the US in conventional battle. The example against India is outdated. That was long time ago. Also Pakistan gets its technology from USA such as jet fighters and India has to rely on Russia which has less capable jet fighters but things are changing and India is buying Rafale jet fighters from France and Euro fighters fro EU. Both India and Pakistan (minus pashtun and bloch *hehe*) suck at war. Its not in their nature. They conquer your with Bollywood songs and their culture, not with bullets and swords.

I know Iranian military is weak technologically compared to Pakistan but you have to remember that Iran is mountainous country like Afghanistan and its a very united country. They defeated Iraq which was supported by all Arab nations and outsiders in the 1980s war. They have experience in warfare which Pakistan lacks. I am not saying USA wouldn't destroy their army as well but their terrain and mentality is far tougher than pakistanis.

[Wahe Guru]

I think most pashtuns from Afghanistan differentiate between Pakistanis (indics) and pashtuns of pakhtunkhwa. sometimes they don't mentions it because they think everyone knows it so there is no need for explanation. Whenever pashtuns of Afghanistan say something about pakistanis they don't include pashtuns and balochis because they know they are different than indics and ofcourse pashtuns are the same on both sides. Maybe other Afghan citizens don't differentiate between different pakistanis but thats because they don't know about pashtun history nor about tribes and tribal connections.

To bleed USA you need a long war, like the one in Afghanistan, The USA has been fighting for over 10 years now and each day costs them upto 300 million US dollars. Against Pakistan the war will be tougher in the first few days because of pakistani army but it will also be soon over once the air force is destroyed. Don't forget the US sells F16 planes to Pakistan and they know all its weaknesses and know how to jam its software. Pakistan doesn't have the capability to hit US planes such as F-22. NO army in the world can fight the US in conventional battle. The example against India is outdated. That was long time ago. Also Pakistan gets its technology from USA such as jet fighters and India has to rely on Russia which has less capable jet fighters but things are changing and India is buying Rafale jet fighters from France and Euro fighters fro EU. Both India and Pakistan (minus pashtun and bloch *hehe*) suck at war. Its not in their nature. They conquer your with Bollywood songs and their culture, not with bullets and swords.

I know Iranian military is weak technologically compared to Pakistan but you have to remember that Iran is mountainous country like Afghanistan and its a very united country. They defeated Iraq which was supported by all Arab nations and outsiders in the 1980s war. They have experience in warfare which Pakistan lacks. I am not saying USA wouldn't destroy their army as well but their terrain and mentality is far tougher than pakistanis.

I hope you have not started drinking lately have you?

[Wahe Guru]

I am of the same or similar view as khushal.

As for an enemy invading Pakistan, well its really easy if the USA wants to do it and the flat plains of Punjab and Sindh are really easy to conquer. The Indic population of Pakistan have been conquered and ruled throughout history and unlike mountains of pakhtunkhwa, punjab and Sindh don't provide terrain advantage to the locals. The Indic locals (punjabis, Sindhis, Seraikis) don't have the same mentality as Afghans who live in harsh conditions with scarce resources so they are born and breed to be tough. Conquering Pakistan is far easier than conquering Afghanistan and pakhtunkhwa. The PAK army is no match for NATO. Have you guys seen how USA totally destroyed the Iraqi army in the first Gulf War? A conventional war against USA is suicide for Pakistan and they are not stupid enough to fight like that. The Pakistani airforce will be defeated in a day. Pakistan has old F16 American planes and the Americans will jam the electronics and shoot them down with ease using their superior F-22 Raptors. Its a joke if anyone thinks the reason USA is not attacking Pakistan is because of Pak army, lol.

Even Iran would give USA a far tougher fight than Pakistan.

It was easier for the Pashtuns to roam around in India whilst the Mughals were at the top.

After the end of the Mughals, Indics did quite rapidly throw out Pashtun rulers from the flat plains of Punjab, mountains of Kashmir and parts of KPK. Yes or no?

I know there was this reason and that reason. Or maybe the Pashtun rulers felt sorry for the Indics and gave them these areas as a gift?

[JattApache]

Both India and Pakistan (minus pashtun and bloch *hehe*) suck at war. Its not in their nature. They conquer your with Bollywood songs and their culture, not with bullets and swords.

[Michin Khel]

Pak Army has not won even a single war so far---instead has been humiliated in all the wars it has fought with India (etc.) including the last one in Kargal. The only thing it knows is waging wars through proxies e.g., Taleban and Lashkar-i-Toiba, etc. Besides, it is not a professional army; rather is a business-industrial empire.

Furthermore, Pakistan is not a monolith ethnically and politically. In fact in any war, Baluchistan will be the first to go and side with the invading power US or whoever followed by Karachi, Sindh, and KPK, who would do the same. Once this happens, Punjabis will be on their four begging to be spared of total annihilation. Punjab is already besieged and on the back foot as can be seen from the repeated defeat of Pak Punjabi dominated army, political elite i.e., Nawaz Sharif, and Justice Choudri Iftikhar at the hands of Zardari.

Also, beginning 2014, there would also be economic sanctions on Pakistan. If a resourceful country like Iran couldn't sustain the sanctions, how a much weaker Pakistan can?

You and badmash khel are making sense.
Come to think of it, even if we survive war, the country would be in state of destruction like iraq and afghanistan.

[Michin Khel]

It was easier for the Pashtuns to roam around in India whilst the Mughals were at the top.

After the end of the Mughals, Indics did quite rapidly throw out Pashtun rulers from the flat plains of Punjab, mountains of Kashmir and parts of KPK. Yes or no?

I know there was this reason and that reason. Or maybe the Pashtun rulers felt sorry for the Indics and gave them these areas as a gift?

It were mostly british not indics who defeated pathan states of rohilkhand, bhopal, tonk etc ...
The only pathan state that sikhs conquered was kasur, and they achìeve success after numerous failed attempts.

[badmash_khel]

It was easier for the Pashtuns to roam around in India whilst the Mughals were at the top.

After the end of the Mughals, Indics did quite rapidly throw out Pashtun rulers from the flat plains of Punjab, mountains of Kashmir and parts of KPK. Yes or no?

I know there was this reason and that reason. Or maybe the Pashtun rulers felt sorry for the Indics and gave them these areas as a gift?

Not really, It was mainly the British who weakened the Mughals and the Rule of the Afghans in the Subcontinent. Not the Indics.

You are quite right. The Durranis did gift Lahor to Lehna Singh Majithia. This Sikh ruler was installed by the Durranis :D

I am not denying the bravery of Sikhs in their battles which they won fair and square. But thats only a tiny part of history in a tiny part of India.

[badmash_khel]

I hope you have not started drinking lately have you?

mai sirf apni mashoqai ki honton ka sharab pita hun :D

[Shah-i-Kot]

Pak Army has not won even a single war so far---instead has been humiliated in all the wars it has fought with India (etc.) including the last one in Kargal. The only thing it knows is waging wars through proxies e.g., Taleban and Lashkar-i-Toiba, etc. Besides, it is not a professional army; rather is a business-industrial empire.

Furthermore, Pakistan is not a monolith ethnically and politically. In fact in any war, Baluchistan will be the first to go and side with the invading power US or whoever followed by Karachi, Sindh, and KPK, who would do the same. Once this happens, Punjabis will be on their four begging to be spared of total annihilation. Punjab is already besieged and on the back foot as can be seen from the repeated defeat of Pak Punjabi dominated army, political elite i.e., Nawaz Sharif, and Justice Choudri Iftikhar at the hands of Zardari.

Also, beginning 2014, there would also be economic sanctions on Pakistan. If a resourceful country like Iran couldn't sustain the sanctions, how a much weaker Pakistan can?

Zardari and the PPP are finished. The Army was fully backing them, even with the the attempt to reopen the supply routes to NATO and Karzai- that was the Army's call. Army is also finished and can no longer serve NATO interests due to DPC and PTI threats of civil disorder.

You should understand that Pakistan is the ONLY country that supplies lehtal aid to NATO/Karzai.

That will stop when Imran takes power

[Michin Khel]

mai sirf apni mashoqai ki honton ka sharab pita hun :D

hahahaha zabardast :D

[Shah-i-Kot]

Lets examine the issue as to why the US has not yet attacked Iran, Pakistan, or North Korea. Contrary to all this allusion of the all powerful NATO alliance, they have not lived up to what is being claimed. They have not gone to war with a nation that posses modern missile range technology or air defense.

Evidence for this is the fact that they only go to war with perceived weak countries. Iraq war 2003 was done because Iraq did not possess any air defense and long-range/short range missile capability. Same reasons for Afghanistan and Libya war.

Syria has the S-300 anti-aircraft system in place all over the country. This is why there is no NATO "intervention" yet.

North Korea was not attacked because they have air defense as well as long range and short range missile capability. In the event of a NATO war on N. Korea, Korea would respond in kind with their missile capability which reportedly has over 7000 Km range.


Iran also has long range/short range missile capability and air defense (they brought down a stealth drone that was supposedly so high that it was supposed to be undetected). Iran's truck missile launchers come from China.


Pakistan has long range and short range missile capability. They also have a joint fighter jet made by China. Pakistan's truck missile launchers come from China .

In the last 2 decades, nations that dont have missile technology (for deterrence) or air defense have been subject to bullying by other nations. This is a historical fact backed by evidence. Had Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq had some semblance of deterrence like North Korea, Iran, and Pakistan, then these wars would not have happened in my opinion.

[Shah-i-Kot]

Some academics (Schuer) are predicting a war with Iran by the end of this summer. If that is the case, then it will be a war that will force nations to pick sides.

The reason is simple and it is because Iran posses missile range that covers all of the Middle East, and the waterways, as well as most of Europe.


It wont be the so-called "cake walk" that some called the initial stages of the Iraq war.

[badmash_khel]

^
Serbia also had Russian madel air defence system but hopeless against NATO except for one plane they brought down.

The new US fighters such as F-35 can take out s-300 easily. Iran doesn't have s-300 yet and Russians have denied selling s-300 to Iran.

No military in the world can stand up to American and NATO technology, not even China or Russia. Sure they can bring a few planes down but a NATO victory is a sure thing.

NATO also has anti ballistic misslile systems in place in Turkey and many parts of southern europe so Iran has no chance of reaching Europe. Most they can do is probably hit some gulf countries like kuwait and Qatar. Isreal also has the Patriot missile shield, which will destroy any useless Iranian missiles.

The real hard part will be once Iran is invaded, the gorrilla tactics work far better than fighting conventional battles against NATO.

[KGODB]

The US has always known Pakistan supports the insurgency, its part of the plan.

The US willingly turns a blind eye to Pakistani support for the Taliban and willingly maintains conflict in Afghanistan

If America really wanted to take out the Taliban it could

If America really wanted to shut Pakistan down it could

America, gains from conflict in Afghanistan and Pakistan

Pakistan as a nation doesnt gain, but its corrupted elite are bought off

Do not think for a second the Americans could not destroy Afghanistan if it wanted to

I wouldnt be surprised if Uncle Sam shook hands and laughed behind the scenes with NA chiefs and Paki generals