My questions to Jana,

[Zahed]

what I find so funny about pro Pakistanis is that whenever they get critisized for anything then they start comparing their thrash with other countries. if u critisize being a failed then they 'll say oh atleast we aint as failed as Afghanistan! if u critisize them for not being an Islamic nation then they 'll say oh atleast we aint cow piss drinkers either! ignoring the fact those very same cow piss drinkers 've reached a status very few country can reach 'n that atleast got its own terminal for those going to hajj.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Lolzz if Wali Khan, Asfandyar wali and other Pashtuns currently ruling KP are hindokumar lolzzz then well what can i say about your misconception.

Sikhs are the only nation which have ruled over Pashtun areas so it also beaks some myths (though it really is a sad thing for me )


2. There is NO upper classism in the people of Peshawar/Pekhawar, we are as much Pashtuns as anyone from FATA.

3. Most of our professors here are Pashtuns so i dont know what is your take. For your information we are not taught any classism. Many Pashtuns from FATA are studying in the institutes in Peshawar so your lame argument is not valid.

4. Backwardness is a phenom which could be used for many things in cities too.






You are confused on the one hand you are blabbering that we are not launching operation in North Waziristan while on the other hand you are grinning about the operation in SW.


First you should decide what you want.

As far as hating Pakistan then why dont you go somewhere else. you want to eat, read, write, use electricity free of charges in Pakistan but oh yeh well you are still grinning.


Its not our problem please check there are some faults at your end too

Typical Pakistani Attitude.

Just because I hate Pakistan for its cruely towards my tribesmen, I will fight till last drop for Waziristan against your Pakistani America slaves.

Pakistan doesnt own Waziristan, Waziristan belongs to Pashtuns not some Rajput former Hindu Monafiq Kaffir Ismaili Jinnah nor his Fake Pashtun hindko speaking supporters.

Waziristan was never your land, once your money is finishde, who will you bribe to get support?

I support a Operation in North Waziristan on the grounds that i know the world will witness all the Pro Government Talibs being sheltered there and we will how such a double dealer Pakistan truely is.

Kind Regards

[muhsina]

Jana
Are you from Mulsims league? You hypocrites. We have seen our beautiful Peshawar ruined by your coward spy agencies and their hired extremists to get some bucks from US - the country for which your generals are working. Have some shame. Killing your own people for money. How far will this corrupt army to go to earn some pennies. Hopeless morons.

[Jana]

Jana
Are you from Mulsims league?

NO i dont believe in any political party for me all of them are the same be it PML-N, ANP, PkMAP, JI , PPP or anyone.

I dont believe in democraps.

You hypocrites.

Not worth replying.

We have seen our beautiful Peshawar ruined by your coward spy agencies and their hired extremists to get some bucks from US - the country for which your generals are working. Have some shame. Killing your own people for money. How far will this corrupt army to go to earn some pennies. Hopeless morons.

My beautiful Peshawar was also destroyed by your coward Khad back in 80s and its hired extremists to get some bucks from India killing my Pashtun brothers. Though i was not born then but my elders and media reports tell us how Peshawar was constantly bombed by terrorists hired by Khad and RAW just because we Pashtuns of Pakistan have helped driving out Russian invaders from your land.

Have some shame. Killing your own people for money. How far will this corrupt army to go to earn some pennies. Hopeless morons.

Same for your people who are killing their own people for US/NATO dollars.

Please ask corrupt Karzai and his criminal gang to stop selling blood of our Afghan brothers

[Son of Mountains]

We can all finger-point, but I don't truly understand the "automatic" connection between Pashtoon nationalism and being an Indian agent.

Bcz India is using innocent Pashtuns and our people (of afghankhwa) are being used.
This is time for pashtuns to wake up from the dreams of our forefathers (that they were so great/brave etc) and do something practically for the nation........and stop being used in the hands of others (either that firangiyan, pakistan, india, farsiwans or punjabis)

Ok Son of Mountains...one can put the same blame on the likes that defend Pakistan. I mean after all the ones here who are defending Pakistan are generally from areas that were not bombed and destroyed by army or ISI. Like Maseed said here before, when it comes to your area (I pray it never comes btw) then we will see who is the Indian agent and who is the lover of Pakistan. I knew many Pashtuns from swat and other areas that did jeevae jeevae but when they saw what the army and ISI did, they hated it even more than me. BTW I don't hate Pakistan, I just don't see it acting in my interests (pashtuns) nor do I accept its premise and ideology. For that matter, India's stance to the durand line prior to partition was just as bad as Pakistan's, so I won't defend them either.

My priorities are:
1) United Pakistan - a place where Pashtuns get proper rights and respect
2) If 1 does not work, then Pashtunistan

[Jana]

Typical Pakistani Attitude.

Just because I hate Pakistan for its cruely towards my tribesmen, this Daughter of a Pak officer from Peshawer(most probably a Hindko Speaking) is telling me to leave Waziristan, I will fight till last drop for Waziristan against your Pakistani America slaves.

I really pity over your uncivlized behaviour i dont know about your grooming but your abusive lies shows you have no courage to face .

You are obssessed with Pakistan and its army and see everyone as daughter or son of an officer which shows how wrong is your vision and how far you can see.


My Father is NOT in army. And he is a Pashtun who's grand grand father used to attend Loya Jirgas in the past.


How you are fighting for Waziristan?

Pakistan doesnt own Waziristan, Waziristan belongs to Pashtuns not some Rajput former Hindu Monafiq Kaffir Ismaili Jinnah nor his Fake Pashtun hindko speaking supporters.

Waziristan was never your land, once your money is finishde, who will you bribe to get support?

the world knows who belongs and who operates in Waziristan we dont need to cry loud that it belongs to us.

I support a Operation in North Waziristan on the grounds that i know the world will witness all the Pro Government Talibs being sheltered there and we will how such a double dealer Pakistan truely is.

Kind Regards

Come up with pin pointing locations and also suggest how will an operation NW wont result in civilian casualties ??

[Jana]

So you would rather be a Pakistani as opposed to your original identity which is Afghan?

You have been Pakistani for about 60 years and Afghan for thousands.

After reading minds of people like you on this forum i and many other Pakistani Pashtuns do feel that you people can deprive us of our Pashtun/Afghan identity any time just because we are satisfied being Pakistani Pashtuns.


How can you assure us if we join you, You wont discriminate against us?

You are not accepting us on just an internet forum how can you accept us on ground. We have full right to have our own point of view.

Some of us support the point of view you have and majority of us despite our grievances against our government still do not support your point of view.


I dont see any good situation for Pakistani Pashtuns in Afghanistan in case we even decide to join you.


My Pashtun/Afghan identity is not based on location but on our roots and ethnicity/blood.

Living in any region doesnt change my ethnicity simple as that.

[Farhan88]

Bcz India is using innocent Pashtuns and our people (of afghankhwa) are being used.

Hahahahahahahaahahahaha!

Though i was not born then but my elders and media reports tell us how Peshawar was constantly bombed by terrorists hired by Khad and RAW just because we Pashtuns of Pakistan have helped driving out Russian invaders from your land.

If the interference of Pakistan regarding Russia truly was seen as help by Afghans then they wouldnt be detesting u in first place, wake up. Time on time your government interfered and now only the favour has been returned but instead of Punjab on Peshawer.

Same for your people who are killing their own people for US/NATO dollars.

Fighting for money is what Pakiis 're known for, not Afghans. Otherwise Pashtuns of Afghanistan would 've taken American dollar a very long time ago and built their areas instead of fighting them today.

Please ask corrupt Karzai and his criminal gang to stop selling blood of our Afghan brothers

Can you ask Zardari the same regarding Pakhtunkhwa?

How can you assure us if we join you, You wont discriminate against us?

'Cause Pashtuns of Afghanistan respect those Pashtuns who respect their motherland. They 'll no reason to discriminate against us, unless by being a Punjapai puppy again u challenge them to. We ourselves couldnt respect the late Bacha Khan who belonged to the same land as us, then u expect others to respect u?

You are not accepting us on just an internet forum how can you accept us on ground.

Thats 'cause u 've accepted ISI way against Afghanistan and your type of people consider whatever ISI is doing as right. Thats why someone who works for Pashtun know ISI isnt the right solution and ask what good they 've done for Pashtuns?

[tor_khan]

We can all finger-point, but I don't truly understand the "automatic" connection between Pashtoon nationalism and being an Indian agent.

Bcz India is using innocent Pashtuns and our people (of afghankhwa) are being used.
This is time for pashtuns to wake up from the dreams of our forefathers (that they were so great/brave etc) and do something practically for the nation........and stop being used in the hands of others (either that firangiyan, pakistan, india, farsiwans or punjabis)

You are right that Pashtoons need a wake up call, but I'm still not clear on the nationalism/Indian agent logic.

[muhsina]

My beautiful Peshawar was also destroyed by Khad back in 80s and its hired extremists to get some bucks from India killing my Pashtun brothers. Though i was not born then but my elders and media reports tell us how Peshawar was constantly bombed by terrorists hired by Khad and RAW just because we Pashtuns of Pakistan have helped driving out Russian invaders from your land.

I am a resident of Peshswar and you're sitting hundreds of miles away from your land and giving us your nonsense. The inhabitants of Peshawar whether hindkowan or Pakhtuns both hate our army. And we hate indians too as they destroyed Peshawar and they are no one else other than you cousin Sikhs.

Same for your people who are killing their own people for US/NATO dollars.

That is Afghanistan's issue we should not be bothered about them they know how to tackle their enemies and shame on those Pashtuns too who sell their land for some bucks to our Pakistani army generals who are already sellouts due to being the reminessance of Ranjeet singh.

Please ask corrupt Karzai and his criminal gang to stop selling blood of our Afghan brothers.

None of my business and yours too. Aghanistan is a sovereign country and it was on the map of earth when your forefathers were going through embroyonic stages.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Jana, you can't eat the cake and have it too. Khad was a cruel intelligence agency but they did not attack peshawar until the West and Pakistan as well as Saudi were continually harassing the government. You are just picking and choosing history. The west along side Saudi and Pakistan had funded the mujahiddeen with money, as well as trained them to destabilize the Khalqi government. Now you can sit here and tell me "oh the khaliqyaan were cruel and non muslim..." but that is not the point. They were the government in power in Afghanistan and no outside country had the right to interfere in its affairs. Obviously, if it was just concerning us Pashtunkhwa Pashtuns, it would be different. But that was not the case, as Pashtunkhwa and Afghanistan was turned into a battlefield by two opposing sides. It is funny that it is ok for ISI or CIA to destroy Afghanistan to fight "infidel communists", it is ok to interfere in Kashmir, but if there is an uprising in Kashmir, you all cry foul and foreign interference. If you can dish it out, then take it in as well.

[Shayesta]

It seems that only cursing and abusing pakistan and pakistanis will make you a good pashtun and member on this forum.

Ehh, no. A very well respected member of this forum is Khushal Khan Khattak who very clearly loves Pakistan and even defends his country, but difference here is that he is a sensible man because he knows he shouldn't start talking about something where he will not have an answer on in the future. Unlike some of those 'patriots' here.

In this thread i have paid thanks to jana for her calm-headed, decent and mature replies not for her ideology.

Jana might be calm headed because she loves Pakistan and worries about nothing, but I have known Pukhtoons in real life (especially Waziris) who are much more abusive in use of language towards Pakistan and Pakistanis than anyone in this forum. Especially one of them gave me this reason for his hatred, and till today's date this is stuck in my head; 'I can't calm down while talking about how my people are being used and killed by Pakistan and nor can I be calm about those 'sold out' Pukhtoons amongst us who actually side Pakistan with their cruelty. And if Pakistan doesn't respect my people's lives and rights then why should I out of respect for them calm down and that also in a discussion, while they practise their cruelty on us in real life?' And very honestly speaking, he is absolutely right.

Yet she is treated and questioned as if a bloody enemy has arrived.

That's because she came to this forum in first place to discuss politics and 'put people in their places', and she made this clear in her introduction thread already. We ask her questions and if she can't answer them then it doesn't mean she is an enemy, it just means because no solid replies are being given to our questions makes this all seem like her being a 'bechara'. Just an example.

For God sake this is a disscusion forum not a Pakistan vs afghanistan battle arena.

This is what you get when some people start comparing countries to each other.

[Nick]

Dear Jana Welcome to PF It was nice have you. You seem to be well into it. You seem to keep a argument, which I found it was nice of you not getting distracted by anti-Pakistani comments, needless to say most of what you said was 95% pro-Pakistani and indeed you also made pro-Islamic and brotherly comments. Which I like despite it has never been true, and I wish it was true to what you claim, today all of Afghanistan would of been with your Pakistan as well.


Perhaps I must tell you I am probably the most Anti-Pakistani in this forum, maybe there are others but no one hates Pakistan as much as I do. Since I know the level of my hate towards Pakistan, Anyways I am also new in this forum, and within sort period I was labelling people based on there interest.

I am very open to my views and what I represent I am nationalist. No I am not Social nationist (Fascism), no I am not ethno nationalist, and I don't believe in National purity, because I am not Lingumastic, (the people who believes Language=Race/Ethnic, in other words they believe Language is everything) after all Afghan race can speak Arabic, Pakhtu, Dari or Balochi etc, I don't even respect the name Pashtunistan(I prefer to call it Afghana) , because for me Pashtun=Afghan, and as another of our respected Poet Khalilullah Khalili said

"Na Go onchi tu nadoni Ki en ham ast Ghaki man,
Nadan ast on ki Goyat Pashtunistan Afghanistan nest"

Which is why he preferred to be barred inside Pakistan, see the connection ie Bacha Khan and Khalilullah Khalili both were political and poet influential one was against British and modern Pakistan and another against modernism and anti-Western Ideologists, they have made their points clearly interestingly one spoke Dari and another Pashtu. I am very much closer to Civil nationalist because as a muslim and also Afghan and being in the world today, divided and used by world politics we believe both sides have suffered enough. Pakistan side by side with Islam has failed since lost of Bangladesh, with millions of suffered lives this nation indeed proved itself to be a Greedy nation. If all Muslims are one Ummah and one Khilafah then name it Pakistan or Parkistan or Arabistan, Iraqistan Or Muslimistan or whatever you want to name it, as Jamalludin Afghani said we all Afghans are going to support this. Now British have created this mini-satan puppet state called it Pakistan, guess what only to disprove Jamaludin's and Mullana Iqbal's theory, but guess what our activists asked for? Unity! Yes of all Umma not just little here and little there by dividing people of same family and marking border between their veins. Which is why we say Pakistan is a disgrace for Muslim world? And for us totally Haram to accept.



As an Afghan nationalist I don't count Pashtunistan (Pakhtunikhwa/Balochistan) as being part of Pakistan. I can never accept that fact they are Part of Pakistan, Even it is in the world map, I close my eyes and ignore that part where I have to see our land and people as being part of Pakistan. Despite I was born 34 years after creation of Pakistan I still don't accept that fact that the our land and our people belongs to Pakistan. Despite Pakistan has come up with so many excuses and supportive arguments in support of their current map in 1950s knowing that it was not enough, losing the support of locals and sky high with rise of Pashtunistan issue, it was matter of time that after Bangladesh conflict it was Afghan issue, which is the Pakistanis gave up Bangladesh specially if India was a threat. What happen after Bangladesh Issue we all know Invasion of USSR and end of Afghan dream, this was when focus of every Afghan (From Pashtunistan or Afghanistan) was to get ride of Kufars. Pakistan have used these opportunities and applying their initial argument from 1950s and since start of the "Pashtun Issue" case in 1960s Pakistan had another 40 years, I mean since 1960s, in making sure they can building up a strong backbone for itself. Pakistan has made their decision back in 1960s to battle perhaps you might view Daud Khans era where tribal people inside Pakistan and few Military men based FATA and set standing near old Hindu-Afghan border in Hindko region.



Yes that was the theory Afghanistan will invade Pakistan. Today you can laugh out loud but in old days Pakistan did not had missiles it has today and dreaming of Nuclear bombs LOL if you would have told the an Afghan back in days that there will be a Soviet invasion and during that Afg-USSR Conflict this newly British created Pakistan will become Nuclear Power (thanks to the world Aid Money which was selfishly used on Pak military but not given for the Afghan-refugees). I tell you no Military was needed and regards to hindu-Muslim nationalism, I tell you Bloods would of flowed from the streets and within 24 hours all of Pakistan would of been taken by Afghans. (PLEASE Don't Laugh because history has been a witness to this) This was one Excuse British gave to new government of Pakistan, and why do you think British stayed longer in Pakistan until 1955 and it was 1956 that they left the country, Well research, and you will figure out the core of Pashtun nationalism.



Therefore with the next 40 years it was very important for Pakistan in making sure Pakistan can battle Afghanistan, economically, religiously socially, politically and by every means specially military,. Since 1960s, at its highest of 1980s and 1990s Pakistan has tried many ways of influencing its own Afghan population, by creating, political factions, big and small parties, future demographic data and movement of populations, applying British policy of divide and rule specially in FATA, mingling and mixing cultures, and continuously tried to impose the Islamic and Pakistan agenda side by side in making sure they can change the minds and ways of Pakhtun thinking. They went as far as buying political individuals, tribal leaders, and even paying higher wage to Pakhtun speakers in Government as well as double pay for low poor class of Pakhtuns if ready to join Pak-i-Military. LOL they went as far as buying singers I guess you can't buy poets but if they could they would, for example they created a copy-cat of the song "Da Asley watan Afghanistan de" into "Da Asley Watan **** stan de" LOL Pak has never been asley watan of Afghan race and will never be.



Therefore my suggestion to you is your better off by calling yourself a Pakistani rather then a Pakhtun, or Pashtun or Pathan. If you are truly Pakhtun from both sides and you reside in Pakistan, and somehow brainwashed by ISI propaganda, that Pakistan is truly Pakhtun nation, then I am sorry its not. You gonna hear the Afghan nationalism even from bought out Pakhtun Puppet politicians whom majorities supporters reside outside Pakhtunikhwa ie Karachi, Rahulpindi, Multan etc. For your typical Punjabi/Pakistani mentality, you seem to take pride that at least Sikhs ruled Pakhtuns. Read history again and again, and tell me which areas Sikhs truly ruled. I tell you what view the map of Afghanistan in 1880s its the true map, Yes Peshawar was captured by Sikh rulers but again for how long, you should also consider the fact that there were people involved in making Sikhs the rulers of those Areas. Those areas have majority “Hindko” Population which whom Afghan race never considered to be Afghan but rather mixed or Lost Pukhtun/Punjabi. You may find this shocking but there are Sikhs who claim to be Pathan as well, we call them “*******s/Harami/Najahiez/Kandapur” whatever but bad Afghan deeds seems to have disrupted the population of Western and northern Pashawar. Peshawar and Multan was always the Center of Hindu/Afghan relation, and Peshawar thanks to British development and jobs and further under Pakistan having their biggest base in there Peshawar has recently been the “Hot” spot. Peshawar is a mixed city where in 1970s Hindkos were dominated second came Pakhtuns but after 1980s Peshawar industry has bombed as well as the population, and that’s why Pakhtuns now are dominated. The story of Peshawar can respectively be comparable to today’s Lahore where today majority or I would say 95% are Muslims where as back in old days it was 80% Sikhs, and now few Sikh family live in Lahore of some claims to be newly converted Muslims.


Reading many of your comments you seem to wrap your personal proPakistani views with regards to your identity. Which you claim to be Pakhtun, this is not shocking because there are many whom are either fake Pakhtuns (Mainly in political field ie Ayob Khan or any Punjabi with the last name Khan), lost Pakhtun (Mainly from India, Afghanistan, or Iran) or Mythical Pakhtuns (Like Sikhs and Hindkos or some people amongst Sarakis/Kashmeris who connects themselves with Pakhtun either before Islam or After Islamic period). They all have membership in this forum and their views are respected, as long as they are within boundaries of professional discussion. My advise to you, try not to generalise unfortunately we all do including myself, and never ever pretend yourself to be representing Pakhtun’s view (Pakistani Afghans representing 9% of total Pakistani population representing Pashtu as their root or mother tongue). This is one of the biggest pro-Pakistani Punjabis/fake Pakhtuns and westerns make is that they try to assume they know everything. If you are a Pakhtun you know who you are, and believe if there was any war between Afghanistan and Pakistan, militarily Pakistan can finish off Afghanistan’s military with 60 hours of their operation, but after that it will take another 6 days and Pakistan flag is down. If you are a Pakhtun, then you should know Pakhtun nature, and will you know what I am saying if not lets leave it here, or choose another ID.

[Michin Khel]

I am a resident of Peshswar you and shame on you spreading lies sitting hundreds of miles away from your land and giving us your bull****. The inhabitants of Peshawar whether hindkowan or Pakhtuns both hate our army. And we hate indians too as they destroyed Peshawar and they are no one else other than you cousin Sikhs. You are the breed of the same Sardar ji's.

A piece of advise ,Learn etiquettes of debate,
http://www.pashtunforums.com/educati...es-debate-437/

[Michin Khel]

Dear Nick according to you a person can not be called as pashtun if he consider himself as a pakistani citizen. What is the basis of your this theory? are you in misconception that magority of pashtuns east to durand are anti-pakistani ?
Socio-politically and economically pashtuns are integrated into pakistan. Their Daily life routines and activities are do not indicates that there is any kind of uprising against pakistan in fashion of bangladeshi movement. Even you will find that The weakest pro-pakistani pashtuns that is ANP-walas talk about soveriegnity and integrity of pakistan.
Ofcourse Waziristanis and bajauris are anti-pakistanis, but if you would give them option of independence and joining afghanistan, they will be in a fix and confusion. You will find IDPs of wazirsistan quarreling for distributing food in DIkhan from governament rather than fighting against the same governament. Those pashtuns who feel the unjust and deprivation, struggle for gaining of pashtun rights within scope of pakistan.
Military operations should have made the negative impact on patriotic feelings of pashtuns but it had not. Pashtuns of pakhtunkhwa (not FATA) first allow talibans in their areas, then were disgusted and tired of their talibani actions, then made lashkars against them and sought help from Pak army. The only movement going on within pashtuns is talibanization but it is not separatist movement, its agenda is to influence whole pakistan.
So how can you say that those pashtuns who consider themselves pakistani citizens are not pashtuns?