My questions to Jana,

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Dear Nick according to you a person can not be called as pashtun if he consider himself as a pakistani citizen. What is the basis of your this theory? are you in misconception that magority of pashtuns east to durand are anti-pakistani ?
Socio-politically and economically pashtuns are integrated into pakistan. Their Daily life routines and activities are do not indicates that there is any kind of uprising against pakistan in fashion of bangladeshi movement. Even you will find that The weakest pro-pakistani pashtuns that is ANP-walas talk about soveriegnity and integrity of pakistan.
Ofcourse Waziristanis and bajauris are anti-pakistanis, but if you would give them option of independence and joining afghanistan, they will be in a fix and confusion. You will find IDPs of wazirsistan quarreling for distributing food in DIkhan from governament rather than fighting against the same governament. Those pashtuns who feel the unjust and deprivation, struggle for gaining of pashtun rights within scope of pakistan.
Military operations should have made the negative impact on patriotic feelings of pashtuns but it had not. Pashtuns of pakhtunkhwa (not FATA) first allow talibans in their areas, then were disgusted and tired of their talibani actions, then made lashkars against them and sought help from Pak army. The only movement going on within pashtuns is talibanization but it is not separatist movement, its agenda is to influence whole pakistan.
So how can you say that those pashtuns who consider themselves pakistani citizens are not pashtuns?

Dear luffy

The reason why people say you can not be a Pashtun and a Pakistani is because to be Pakistani you must accept Jinnah ideology which in itself divides Pashtuns onto two sides. Plus we have the case of Pakistans strategic Depth ambitions in Afghanistan, there will be no such thing as a Pakistan wanting a stable Afghanistan, that is fantasies.

Secondly, those IDPS who are in DI Khan are not supported by most people if they were to rise up against the Dirty Pakistani Army so they are isolated and stuck, if a Pashtun leader was to rise up, no question asked, majority of maseeed and other tribal Pashtuns will support them.

Pakistan has played a very clever plott and is been using Taliban to oppress any Nationalistic thought, look at the looks of Hamid gul and co, all support terrorism in Afghanistan to suppress any strong Nationalistic response from the Afghan side.

I also find it very ignorant of you to say Pakhtunkhwa but not FATA, why is this, Pashtuns in the tribal region have kept their Pashtun identity very strong, unlike those from Peshawer and co, No Offence intended.

Luffy, Not all Pashtuns are Naive as you may have thought, they use to say the same damme things during the British Raj and Mughal era, but look how that turned out. The More Pakistan army bombs Pashtuns to serve Punjab, the more United Pashtuns will bee, and by the way, it wasnt the taliban who came to your soo called Adokhel Pakhtunkhwa, it was the Army who brought them there, when America came to Afghanistan, it was Pashtuns from Pakhtunkhwa who went in the 1000's to fight, and you think Pakistan Army was not aware of it?

Kind Regards

[Jana]

I am a resident of Peshswar you and shame on you The inhabitants of Peshawar whether hindkowan or Pakhtuns both hate our army.

Same for you for telling a lie. I dont know if you are Pakistani Pashtun or Pashtun from Afghanistan if you are the later one then what are you doing in Peshawar why dont you go back and support your country instead of sitting here.

Tell me your address and i will visit you and will carry you around the city to prove how much truth is there in your baseless claims

spreading lies sitting hundreds of miles away from your land and giving us your bull****.

So where am i sitting BTW ?? If Peshawar than so are you sitting hundreds of miles away from some parts of Afghanistan (if by my land you meant Afghanistan).

So by your logics we both are giving Bull**** right ???

And we hate indians too as they destroyed Peshawar and they are no one else other than you cousin Sikhs. You are the breed of the same Sardar ji's.

I can only pity at your language and mentality. RIP to your language. I can call you breed of Hindus too but i wont because i am not groomed to abuse others.

That is Afghanistan's issue we should not be bothered about them they know how to tackle their enemies and shame on those Pashtuns too who sell their land for some bucks to our Pakistani army generals who are already sellouts due to being the reminessance of Ranjeet singh.

By the same yardstick it our issue and no one else needs to be bothered about Pakistan and where we are spending.

Pakistani Pashtuns have been guarding not only their land but we have also been always present for fighting any invasion by outsiders in Afghanistan.

None of my business and yours too. Aghanistan is a sovereign country and it was on the map of earth when your forefathers were going through embroyonic stages.

Its NONE of your business either whom i talk about and whom not.

We are bothered about our country which is goverened by your despicable race which by virtue of unproductive reproductive process is in majority and is bringing Pakistan to a collapse.

Every country has some incompetent leaders that does not mean we should betray our country.

I dont know what race do you have but atleast we Pashtuns are not despicable race.

Have some shame if you still have not learnt it.

Same advice for you

[muhsina]

A piece of advise ,Learn etiquettes of debate,
http://www.pashtunforums.com/educati...es-debate-437/

Mr/Mis Luffy

It seems that the seeds of slavery have been engrained in the psycho-mental mechanism of us Pakistanis so much that we consider it bad manners and ill ettiquettes to express a genuine hatred for a person , group or institution while even linguists and psychologists do not recommend such artificiality, where you want to express anger and hatred but due to the presence of some enslaved minds who are struggling with their inferiority complexes, one has to sugar coat it. This is what all Pakistanis are suffering from due to our artificial sophistication mania trying to become indianised by using a means of communication now called as Urdu Language which has no roots and no history as compared to Punjabi ,Pashto or Sindhi ,Balochi or Hindko. So get an education yourself before suggesting your enslavement advices to others .

I would rather suggest you and all others who think in the same enslaving terms liberate your minds by expressing your heart out whether it is in favour of an idea or against it contrary to this fellow jana who is probably a male but due to the absence of balls tries to spread propaganda stuff posing as a female.

[Jana]

Jana might be calm headed because she loves Pakistan and worries about nothing, but I have known Pukhtoons in real life (especially Waziris) who are much more abusive in use of language towards Pakistan and Pakistanis than anyone in this forum. Especially one of them gave me this reason for his hatred, and till today's date this is stuck in my head; 'I can't calm down while talking about how my people are being used and killed by Pakistan and nor can I be calm about those 'sold out' Pukhtoons amongst us who actually side Pakistan with their cruelty. And if Pakistan doesn't respect my people's lives and rights then why should I out of respect for them calm down and that also in a discussion, while they practise their cruelty on us in real life?' And very honestly speaking, he is absolutely right.

Waziris, Mehsuds or for that matter anyone from other tribal agencies in our country are our own people and they can abuse our government for their grievances so do i. But it doesnt mean that we should happily hear the abuses from you that too on a forum.

What a Pity some people are even resorting to calling names and abusing us and calling our Pashtun forefathers as Sikhs because we few Pakistani Pashtuns here on this very forum DO Not agree with their hate filled mentality.

That's because she came to this forum in first place to discuss politics and 'put people in their places', and she made this clear in her introduction thread already. We ask her questions and if she can't answer them then it doesn't mean she is an enemy, it just means because no solid replies are being given to our questions makes this all seem like her being a 'bechara'. Just an example.


This is what you get when some people start comparing countries to each other.

I already answer you and others NOW if you are used to hear the Only Answers which conform to your thinking and point of view then Sorry i cant help it.


Everyone has his or her own point of view.

[Jana]

Mr/Mis Luffy

It seems that the seeds of slavery have been engrained in the psycho-mental mechanism of us Pakistanis so much that we consider it bad manners and ill ettiquettes to express a genuine hatred for a person , group or institution while even linguists and psychologists do not recommend such artificiality, where you want to express anger and hatred but due to the presence of some enslaved minds who are struggling with their inferiority complexes, one has to sugar coat it. This is what all Pakistanis are suffering from due to our artificial sophistication phobia trying to become indianised by using a means of communication languagenow called as Urdu Language which has no roots and no history as compared to Punjabi ,Pashto or Sindhi ,Balochi or Hindko. So get an education yourself before suggesting your enslavement advices to others .

I would rather suggest you and all others who think in the same enslaving terms liberate your minds by expressing your heart out whether it is in favour of an idea or against it

You are free to show you hatred but forums or for that matter this forum is NOT Jaganoo Chowk or Bazaar where some uneducated abusive individuals resort to bazaari language.

Those who get resgitered on any forum first read the rules and agree to abide by these before clicking the yes button if you did not read its your problem and if anyone can not follow the rules then indeed no sensible discussion can take place.

contrary to this

fellow jana who is probably a male but due to the absence of balls tries to spread propaganda stuff posing as a female.

lolzz what make you assume that i am a male ???

Wishing to be a male will be the last thing a person like me will ever want on earth.

I am quite comfortable with being a girl and NO i dont need Balls because i have GUTS to present myself and my views.



Cheers and learn to accept few realities in the same way as i and others accept that there are grievances but on the same level there are satisfaction too

[Jana]

Sikhs are the forefathers of Punjabis - the muslim sardar ji's we have in Pakistan. Ask your forefathers about Ahmed Shah Abdali who installed Ranjit Singh - your wanna be ancestor over Punjab. Pakhtuns have nothing in common with Punjabis,including religion,as they are central asians by origin. Get an education yourself before educating others.

NO one is talking about Punjabis. Me, Luffy and Few other Pakistani PASHTUNS came to this forum because we were told this is a place for ALL PASHTUNS i never knew some obsessed people were having double standards.


Anyway Ranjit Singh might be Your wana be ancestor NOT Mine.

Watch your language next time and learn some manners if you still did not learn yet

I am sure you are a Punjabi posing as a female to misguide the readers.

LOLZZZZZZZ NO One is a kid here to be misguided. I am airing my views as much as you are as a member.

ABOVE all Get Over with your imagination of me being a male.

Lolzzz i dont need to change my gender as parent have made so strong that despite being a girl i can take up my stand firmly.

[Shayesta]

Waziris, Mehsuds or for that matter anyone from other tribal agencies in our country are our own people and they can abuse our government for their grievances so do i. But it doesnt mean that we should happily hear the abuses from you that too on a forum.

Now do you care to point where I abused you? If you are talking about some other members then I am not responsible for their use of language, and as you consider all Pukhtoons from Pakhtunkhwa as your own brothers anyway then why don't you make them understand this as majority of them are from Pakhtunkhwa?

What a Pity some people are even resorting to calling names and abusing us and calling our Pashtun forefathers as Sikhs because we few Pakistani Pashtuns here on this very forum DO Not agree with their hate filled mentality.

I have told you before, there have been pro-Pakistani members here and what they have done regarding politics was just give up. Why? Not because they were cursed in first place, but because they knew they couldn't contribute anything new nor any truth to the subjects. And that's why some even left the forum, LOL.

I already answer you and others NOW

There are enough posts of mine you didn't answer yet, there are posts of Farhan bro you didn't answer yet and there are other posts you didn't answer while me in particular didn't call you by any name in even one of my posts. Now may I know why?

if you are used to hear the Only Answers which conform to your thinking and point of view then Sorry i cant help it.

You didn't even answer my previous posts, so how can I know your views on it and point out that I disagree with you? And I can accept anyone's point of view very well, until it makes sense and that person can also answer my questions in return.

Everyone has his or her own point of view.

Except for that the truth isn't dependent on your or my point of view in particular and nor on your love for Pakistan or anyone else's hatred for Pakistan.

[Jana]

Now do you care to point where I abused you? If you are talking about some other members then I am not responsible for their use of language,

I used the word "You" not for an individual in this case NOT for YOU but as a collective word for addressing those who are using bad language.

and as you consider all Pukhtoons from Pakhtunkhwa as your own brothers anyway then why don't you make them understand this as majority of them are from Pakhtunkhwa?

I agree with you over this. Its our fault that we failed to address their grievances. And even on one home when there is some even less discrimination even the brothers by blood do have grudges against each other. Its human instinct and i do NOT shy away from accepting that there are flaws.

The only point i always look for is that a bully will always bully us BUT when our own brothers bully us then we should look within and not go after our neighbour.


The bottom line is that my people from FATA/Pukhtunkhwa who are in the government, who are senators, MPs etc promised us milk and honey canals but once pocketed huge sum they forget us. I can abuse and i do other provinces and NON-Pashtun Pakistanis but the point why our own people suppose to be betraying us ?


I have told you before, there have been pro-Pakistani members here and what they have done regarding politics was just give up. Why? Not because they were cursed in first place, but because they knew they couldn't contribute anything new nor any truth to the subjects. And that's why some even left the forum, LOL.

There are enough posts of mine you didn't answer yet, there are posts of Farhan bro you didn't answer yet and there are other posts you didn't answer while me in particular didn't call you by any name in even one of my posts. Now may I know why?


You didn't even answer my previous posts, so how can I know your views on it and point out that I disagree with you? And I can accept anyone's point of view very well, until it makes sense and that person can also answer my questions in return.

I have to read all posts/comments to find out yours, because i at times visit this forum due to my busy schedule so indeed i might missed many posts.

There is one good post from NICK and i will reply to that but for that i need alot of time to reply him with statistics and dates/history so i dont want to reply in hurry

Except for that the truth isn't dependent on your or my point of view in particular and nor on your love for Pakistan or anyone else's hatred for Pakistan.

Agree.

NOTE: I know some of those Pashtun members of this forum from Pakistan who left the forum due to abusive language/hate from others NOT because they cant argue

[tor_khan]

MODERATOR NOTE:

Contributors are reminded that personal attacks are a breach of the board rules and can result in an infraction. There are a number of postings here that fall short of this standard.

You are reminded to keep your discussion courteous at all times and to observe forum rules.

[Shayesta]

I used the word "You" not for an individual in this case NOT for YOU but as a collective word for addressing those who are using bad language.

I even corrected by asking whether you mean those other members, but thanks for clarifying anyway.

I agree with you over this. Its our fault that we failed to address their grievances.

Just accepting your faults isn't enough, if you truly believe that Pakistan is the right land for you and for them then you have to show it. How? In name of Pakistan do something good for them, instead of using their soil for terror activities and gift them with bombs. And also ask yourself, would your army ever bomb Punjab the same way if Taliban was to be in Punjab? And I expect a very honest answer from you here.

The only point i always look for is that a bully will always bully us BUT when our own brothers bully us then we should look within and not go after our neighbour.

I have seen pro-Pakistani Pukhtoons calling anti-Pakistani Pukhtoons disloyal pigs, Indian agents, uncivilized creatures, etcetera. Not on this forum, but on Pakistani forums and in real life. Your people (and with your people I mean pro-Pakistanis) believe they are more educated than anti-Pakistani Pukhtoons, then why don't you educate them instead of reminding them how illiterate they are and how backward they are? Would you say the same things to a Punjabi? I don't think so, then why would you to a Pukhtoon? So even you are bullying your own people, and that also to make rest of Pakistan happy.

The bottom line is that my people from FATA/Pukhtunkhwa who are in the government, who are senators, MPs etc promised us milk and honey canals but once pocketed huge sum they forget us.

And why are those governors so weak? Tell me, did Pukhtoons of Pakistan ever demonstrate against those governors for not doing anything for poorer Pukhtoons? I don't think so, and do you want to know how many times other provinces of Pakistan have demonstrated against injustice? That's the point, Pukhtoons don't understand their own situation themselves and then expect others to feel their their circumstances.

I can abuse and i do other provinces and NON-Pashtun Pakistanis but the point why our own people suppose to be betraying us ?

Same could be said about you. For you anti-Pakistanis might be betrayers because they prefer Afghanistan, their motherland. But for them you might be betrayers who prefer Pakistan, the country they believe actually divided Pukhtoons. Simple as that.

I know some of those Pashtun members of this forum from Pakistan who left the forum due to abusive language/hate from others NOT because they cant argue.

Like who? Or do they wish to stay anonymous? If they had valid points then they would have discussed till the end, despite of being cursed at. Just like how you keep it up. Even I was at some Pakistani forum years ago and you should have heard the sh*t that was being said against Afghans and Pukhtoons in general, and the sad part was that a Pekhawri even joined them in cursing Afghanistan. But I didn't stop discussing, even though it was like hundred people of them against only me and guess what? Because I didn't stoop to their level and provided them solid proves to my claims, they decided to close that thread and ban me, LOL.

[Punjabi]

Jana,
I have been here for a long time. Everyone here respects me there are only 1 or 2 members that resort to name calling out of a thousand here. But that is the nature of it. Theworld is not perfect paaji. All you have to do is report the post and admin khan or tor khan or anyone else quickly takes care of it. This is probably the only board in the internet that has respected me so much and constantly reminded me that I have equal rights. That is wjy I have been here for 4 months.

Aseer is right. I love this place, despite my political interests and consider this as my community too. So please don't generalize or make up blasphemy like that. Stay on topic.

shukriya

[Jana]

Jana, if you see abusive languge anywhere all you have to do is report and I am more than sure you and I both know it was taken care of. From what I have seen, I have yet to see a pro Pakistani member leave cause there are a lot of em here. A LOT.

you want to know how I know you made that up? Cause we even have PUNJABIS on this website. That argue they love this site and are part of this community. Tsk tsk. If your here to hurt the sites image then I don't know what to tell you.

as you can see, no one here is 'attacking_ you haven't even gotten the slightest taste of the medicine yet. This is just the beginning.

Thank you dear. The administration here is quite good and i appreciate and praise them for it. Bravo.


I have no complaint against the management team here so far. They are good and doing a great job.

Reporting every now and then might irritate them


I am not against any opposite view or even hate by others but only against the name calling and abusive emotional outbursts by few members..


I frankly came here to post and learn some great stuff about Pashtuns but frankly useless hatred filled behaviour of some posters preoccupied my time.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Jana I think you give yourself and the so-called "pakistani" pakhtuns too much importance. They are members here like anyone else. The funny thing is, the same "arguments" you lot put forward are base level and I have heard them many times over. Basically a lot of us are repeating things we have said before, it is not as if you have come up with over the top logic that can't be disproven. Also, Jana this is a Pashtun forum, there is no concept of pakistani or Afghanistani, it is a pashtun forum. We post things as we perceive to be in the interests of Pashtuns. If you are so adamant about your citizenship, then there are many pakistain forums, but this is not one of them. If a Pashtun from Laghman, Ningrahar wants to discuss issues or criticize things about Swat or Bajaur they are welcome to, as a pashtun from Swat is welcome to do the same to Laghman, or Khost, etc. The point is stop trying to divide pashtuns on a line created by Britain. It is funny, you all want to acknowledge that illegal line, but cry tears for Palestine or Kashmir. I consider this hypocrisy. Manana

[Roshina]

MODERATOR NOTE:

Guys, this is a great discussion, but you all need to watch your language. Any post appearing to be disrespectful or insulting WILL be deleted. If the disrespect towards other members continues, this thread will be closed for clean-up, and those who continuously use foul language and insult other members' families/relatives/ancestors will be banned.

Thank you for your contribution and cooperation!

[MazloomyarMaseed]

MODERATOR NOTE:

Guys, this is a great discussion, but you all need to watch your language. Any post appearing to be disrespectful or insulting WILL be deleted. If the disrespect towards other members continues, this thread will be closed for clean-up, and those who continuously use foul language and insult other members' families/relatives/ancestors will be banned.

Thank you for your contribution and cooperation!

Your signature is blinding me. I suggest you take the health of members eyes into consideration.

The pain has not reached those in Peshawer, they live a very different live then those in the tribal regions. A few suicide bombings in Peshawer has big such a hot issue with the residents of Peshawer, but what if Pak jets blow up all their homes etc.

Then you will the pain.

Kind Regards