Who's The Problem?

[SwatiTheBrave1]

Swat please tell me you are kidding about the army? Where was mr 10 % when this mess was injected in Afghanistan and Pashtunkhwa...army regimes had just as guilty of a hand. And foreign policy in Pakistan has always firmly been in the hands of intel agencies -> ISI and the army. This is a foregone conclusion in Pakistan. It is the most corrupt instituion in pakistan bar none (read Ayesha Siddiqui's Military Inc)...their actions in previous military conflicts don't put them in a positive light either.
Actually the people of Pashtunkhwa are telling this army that this time if you come do it right. They have called the previous operations a drama. This resonates all over Pashtunkhwa. How you are blaming the civilian government for something they did not cause is beyond me. No one is saying zardari is angel, he is not. However call a spade a spade and point out that it was the army/ISI who was a major culprit in these areas.

Hello:

Let me clear a misconception here which many members are having .

ISI = Inter services intelligence and it is an intelligence body responsible for protecting Pakistan's Strategic interests in the region and globally.

ISI According to My Personal information is regulated by GHQ and The Chief Remains in a close contact to Pakistan's top Military brass.

Now ISI has played a key role in war against Soviet union and not to mention We provided Ammo and Extensive Gurilla War tactics and training to Afghan Mujahideen which lead to the destruction of the Red star as we know it.

These days there is a media hype about ISI's role in Pakistan's establishment and to tell you the truth ISI is not an irregularity or out of control organization neither its a separate entity .

ISI has played a silent but great role in Bosnian Liberation as well as same sort of Training and equipment was provided to Bosnian Mujahedeen or to be a bit more precise ISI provided Baktar Shikan ATGM's to Bosnian Mujahideen .

So in the end of the day if we analyze The ISI is an organization which has helped Muslims all over the world for their liberation and offcourse with the verdict of Pakistani GOVET.

Regards:

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Hello:

Let me clear a misconception here which many members are having .

ISI = Inter services intelligence and it is an intelligence body responsible for protecting Pakistan's Strategic interests in the region and globally.

ISI According to My Personal information is regulated by GHQ and The Chief Remains in a close contact to Pakistan's to Military brass.

Now ISI has played a key role in war against Soviet union and not to mention We provided Ammo and Extensive Gurilla War tactics and training to Afghan Mujahideen which lead to the destruction of the Red star as we know it.

These days there is a media hype about ISI's role in Pakistan's establishment and to tell you the truth ISI is not an irregularity or out of control organization neither its a separate entity .

ISI has played a silent but great role in Bosnian Liberation as well as same sort of Training and equipment was provided to Bosnian Mujahedeen or to be a bit more precise ISI provided Baktar Shikan ATGM's to Bosnian Mujahideen .

So in the end of the day if we analyze The ISI is an organization which has helped Muslims all over the world for their liberation and offcourse with the verdict of Pakistani GOVET.

Regards:

Nice state version of the events. Let me give you a few facts as well.
- That is the point swat, pakistan's strategic interests do not match Pashtuns, and have not for the past 30 years. This whole idea that we should go along with their plans is like taking the gun from the murderer and shooting yourself. There is no sense to it.
- ISI was created by a british-aussie named Cawthome, and was initially meant to spy and collect info on frontier and kashmir. It was also modelled along the SAVAAK, the ex iranian intel.
- The soviet-afghan war was not a war of islam, just of two competing super powers. The US policy makers at the time wanted to Soviets to step in, it was called the Afghan bear trap. Pakistan ISI using US and Saudi money created 7 mujahideen groups, all 7 are the warlord groups you see today. You know the ones human rights activists cry about because they sit in the loya jirga. Pakistan intervention started before when they trained Massoud and Hekmatyaar in the 70s to cause problems for Sardar Daud. Soviet war did not help muslims or afghans either lar au bar, it just pushed them back 300 years. Bsically we pashtuns fought paksitans, saudis and west's war. There is nothing to be proud about that.
- West gave more weapons and money to the mujahideen than ISI, in fact ISI just funnelled it. If it wasn't for western stingers, then Hamid Gul would be another useless military man (he still is, but now he has an ego). Israel even funded weapons to the mujahideen via Pakistan btw.
- Bosnian war, ISI prolly helped, but so did the west. Who supported it more? Thank you, so don't make it a religious issue. Balkans is a volatile area where each group has grievances against the other.
- ISI is a state within a state, it has a very nasty role in the politics of Pakistan. It is not as regulated as you think.
- Pakistan's interests nor creation are islamic, please do not use choice slogans and phrases. It's policies have not helped any muslim country let alone muslim village. If I go by your logic, US has done more for muslims right..because they paid for the soviet war, they freed the bosnians (who do you think serbs were more worried about US or Pakistan?), US intervened in Kosovo, and without US, kosovo would not even be considered as an independent entity. So as you see, your logic falls flat :-)

[SwatiTheBrave1]

^Do you think ISI is working for Pashtuns benefits?

Well The history is evident that ISI has Shed its Blood for Afghan People , do you have any doubts ?

Even when Pakistan is the Largest Refugee Hosting country in the World ?

Yes ISI is not only working for Pashtuns but for the Muslims everywhere .

Regards:

[aghajaan]

This thread is so fascinating.

[SwatiTheBrave1]

respected wrora, the question is not about if Pakistani citizens gladly embraced Pashtuns a few meters away. It is, if ISI is working for PASHTUNS like ME and YOU.

Yes or No.

State your logical reason for the above.

I have nothing against Pakistan, however, I have some problems with "ISI" and "PAK ARMY"


The ordinary citizens, I love and adore.

Your problems are based on your personal hate or whatever reasons but ISI is not a Pashtun centric organization.

Pakistan comes First before anything else!!!!

Pakistan Army has given its Blood for Pashtuns and Afghans and if you do not Regard our Shaheeds and our hospitality towards over 4 million Afghan Refugees than i must say you are Pathetic , Ignorant and biased.

[karachipashtun]

Hello:

Guys what we are seeing here is no constructive debate is happening as the topic is not being discussed properly .

MY idea about The Troubles in Afghanistan is as follows:

Americans won't leave untill 2011.

They will Install a govet that would serve their purpose.

Indian penetration would destroy AfPak Relationship as Indians would love to Target Pakistani Assets Inside Afghanistan in order to gain control.

Afghans according to surveys are loyal to Pakistan and not to India.

Indian investments in Afghanistan may seem charming at this very stage but i believe that this "Baniya" will end up taking up the whole afghan economy which equals slavery.

Now Here is My solution.

Pakistan and Afghanistan Must form an alliance and greater cooperation that Afghan markets can get access to Gawadar and Karachi sea ports.

Pakistan must keep working for Long lasting peace in Afghanistan for the greater good of Afghan people.

Both Countries must agree on Military and security issues and form a joint Task force immediately.

Pakistan Must use its Influence on Taleban leaders to convince them to come to
table for negotiating the core issues ie security and Economy and Power sharing.

In the end most important is Pakistan should take Afghanistan under nuclear umbrella that No one can attack Afghan people in future provided greater steps towards stability in the country.

My Brothers and Sisters Pakistan is a Big Brother to Afghanistan and it always will be , We do love Afghans and Do not worry about those stupid jokes what people crack on the streets as those idiotic faces even crack jokes about Quaid E Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah R.A.




"United we stand divided we fall"

Admiring post.

Please make sure you dont go no where, we need ppl like you here.



so far bls and you are doing good.

[SwatiTheBrave1]

The ordinary citizens, I love and adore.

In urdu: Shorba Halal , Botiyaan haram !!!!

Pathetic !!!!!!

[SwatiTheBrave1]

^Re-read my post.

You did not compehend it properly, I specifically said, "respected wrora, the question is not about if Pakistani citizens gladly embraced Pashtuns a few meters away. It is, if ISI is working for PASHTUNS like ME and YOU."

Obviously they were embraced the issue on hand is ISI and ISI not working for Pashtuns of PAKISTAN.

The problem is with your understanding or just because you do not seem to have something called "Common sense".

ISI is not a charity organization or an NGO it is an Intelligence Organization and it works of only one benefit which is Pakistan First.

Now Pakistan Includes everything Pashtuns as well , so Relax .

[SwatiTheBrave1]

^like I said, I love Pakistan and its contributions. But I am not your average cup of tea, I see all the pain the army has caused to my people.

Pakistan Army has done Nothing against anyone but protecting our sovereignty and integrity.

When the house catches fire than people should not worry about Stuff getting burnt to the ground.

We all share that pain and no one has been targeted specifically by Pakistan army.

In Pakistan 31000 People have died in TTP Attacks regardless of Race / Ethnicity / Religion .

So who is responsible for this massacre which still continues ?

I Do not give a Crap about anyone if they are Sindhi / Punjabi / Pashtun / Baloch or whatever .

Pakistan is my religion and we will die for it .

Please watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZjrWe3IptI

Regards:

[SwatiTheBrave1]

Guys Been Awake for 20 + hours , Must Sleep now.

Take care and Catch you guys soon and discuss on it .

"Start thinking out of the nutshell , there is a world beyond Pashtuns."

[SwatiTheBrave1]

^Pakistan is your religion?
I think I will leave it at that.

It was a pleasure speaking with you.

Yes , I live , Sleep , Pray Pakistan & i will die for it to prove my True Muslim Pakistani Blood.

Strong Pakistan = Strong Islam & communities .

Pakistan has came into being for a great reason which is the Regaining the Pride of Islam and Muslims.

Pakistan is the miracle of Allah SWT and a divine gift for Muslims on 27th Ramadan.

Pakistan is a Nest for Muslims regardless of ethnicity/Color/Religion/language and Pakistan Army is the Protector of this Gift of Allah SWT and the Blessings of Prophet Muhammad SAW.

We are a Nation proud of presenting our Blood for Afghans , Pashtuns , Syrians , Iraqis , Bosnians , Africans , Arabs and Kashmiris.



Lets forget the differences and Pray that Allah SWT Never let Pakistan down as it is the very Last Line of Defense to its Religion.

If Pakistan got destroyed , there would be no one to Protect the Izzat and gheriat of Muslims from the Kuffar.

Reagards:

Allah hafiz

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Laa hawla waa laa quwaatha..swati fear Allah. What you are saying is textbook mutaliye they would shove down our throat in schools. Please be logical and don't drag islam's name into this. Pakistan's creation is not islamic nor is it the last defense against islam, its not even the first or on the list. Shall I remind you of Bengal, of Pashtunkhwa (ttp were army buddies untill all went south, I have it on record in an article where these same ttp peple were called Pakistani patriots and then when push came to shove they were kaffirs...then people remebered lolzz). Please swati don't think we pashtuns are this foolish that we willfall for these lines anymore inshallah. Those days are long gone. I don't know about syrians or whatever, but I know for a fact that Pakistan is majority of indic descent and are north indian in culture (not counting Pashtunkhwa and baloch areas ofc). Your pakistan army raped bengalis, and is committing untold crimes on baloch. In black spetember they (along with jordan's army) killed thousands of palestinians who were in jordanian refugee camps. They are the decendents of the British indian army...in fact 1/3rd of the british indian army were made of panjabi muslims. They were known to be loyal and in ww1, and ww2 proudly served the queen. Lets not forget that when our elders were fighting british, they were the ones shooting at them. How quickly did you change them into the nest of Islam.

I will be waiting for you to reply and also to give me islamic daleel for the creation of pakistan, i mean come on created out of communal politics, drawn up by britain herself, a state that has divided 3 muslim communities. Zindabad ye lolzz

[Dinosaur Khan]

@BLS
How u can say that by just being of indic decent, pakistanis r equalant to indians? You forget key factor of "religoun" which differentiate pakistani or indian muslims from hindus.
Because of islam our culture, langauge, living pattren, houses, food, clothes etc are different from hindus. This difference is basis of ideology of pakistan.
Can you answer me why kashmiris despite being of indic decent, want freedom from india?

[tor_khan]

Yes , I live , Sleep , Pray Pakistan & i will die for it to prove my True Muslim Pakistani Blood.

Strong Pakistan = Strong Islam & communities .

Pakistan has came into being for a great reason which is the Regaining the Pride of Islam and Muslims.

Halaka - da khoba rapasa!

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Pakistan has came into being for a great reason which is the Regaining the Pride of Islam and Muslims.

1. Oh, is that why Pakistan was busy giving blowjobs to Uncle Sam during the 1948 war in which the US and its allies backed Israel against the Arabs to capture the third holiest site in Islam, Jerusalem?
   
2. Is that why Pakistan still had it in its mouth during the 6 Day War, the Suez War and the Yom Kipur war when the Western allies killed hundred and thousands of Arabs and captured Muslim land which the Prophet ordered you to protect on his deathbed?
   
3. Is that why Pakistan sent Zia-ul-Haq to brutally bring down the Palestinian uprising of Black Friday? Is this the great reason why Pakistan was formed, is this the regaining of the pride of Islam and Muslims?
   
4. During all these conflicts, Pakistan was joining SEATO, CENTO, the Baghdad Pact, etc and was allowing the US to use its soil to send spyplanes into the USSR.

Swati, answer these points please.

Pakistan is the miracle of Allah SWT and a divine gift for Muslims on 27th Ramadan.

Pakistan was not a miracle... what is wrong with you? Are you sleeping with Zaid Hamid?

Congress started the Quit India Movement after the breakout of the 2nd World War (after 1939), thinking that the British, who were already fighting for their survival in the Battle of Britain against the Luftwaffe, would bow down to and give India independence. The British were desperate to find someone in India who would form a government. The Muslim League, whose founding principle was to promote Muslim loyalty to the British, obliged and formed a government for their gora (speen) masters.

Pakistan was, thence, a thank you present from gora sahab to his house ******s.

Pakistan is a Nest for Muslims regardless of ethnicity/Color/Religion/language and Pakistan Army is the Protector of this Gift of Allah SWT and the Blessings of Prophet Muhammad SAW.

Oh, is it really a nest for Muslims regardless of their ethnicity/Color/Religion/language? Then why did they impose Urdu in East Pakistan, a 99% Bengali region? Why isn't Pashto the national language of Pashtunkhwa? Why are we stealing resources of the Baloch? Why did Bangladesh separate itself?

And is the Pakistan army the protector of all of this? What about Lal Masjid? What about the secret disappearances? What about the army golf clubs and their DHA projects?

If Pakistan got destroyed , there would be no one to Protect the Izzat and gheriat of Muslims from the Kuffar.

Reagards:

Allah hafiz

Do you work for PTV? Seriously...

Talk with logic, evidence, rationale... don't bring your petty patriotism into debates because, as manifested above, it makes you fail.