My reaction on Soldat Amir (An apostate Pashtun nationalist and house-negro) in Pasht

[roadrunner]

You seem to be clueless about Pashtuns.

Pashtun tribes, specially south and south-east of Kabul are and always were armed to the teeth.

The Northern Alliance couldn´t even take on the outskirts of Kabul in 2001 after American B-52 bombers had cleared their way and you are making propaganda for the Pakistani intervention in Afghanistan by declaring it "helping Pashtuns".

The Northen Alliance might have had difficulty taking Kabul but they did take it. How did they when they are so bungling? Because they were being state sponsored to do so. The Pashtuns might not have been, or might have been but they were sponsored by weaker states.

State military sponsorship will always triumph over an AK-47 and RPG-7. When the Soviets left, the Pashtuns could not defeat the Communist puppet regime until the Russians withdrew support.

If Pakistan cared about Pashtuns, it should have built schools, unis and infrarstructure in KPK and FATA. While ISI general´s children were studying in Oxford, Pashtuns were indoctrinated in madrassas.

It was about installing a Pakistan-friendly regime in Kabul and NOT about Pashtuns and their fate. It was more about undermining the Pashtun cause by Islamic Internationalism.....

Why do you expect Pakistan to behave as a charity? Every country, even Afghanistan looks out for its interest. It supported the Pashtuns because the Pashtuns had established contacts within Pakistan.

The question stands. Would you have preferred it if Pakistan did not support the Pashtuns and the Pashtuns got massacred by Northern Alliance forces with more advanced Iranian and Russian weaponry?

[roadrunner]

Roadrunner what dictators like Zia Ul Haq needed to understand, still need to understand, in fact even now is that you simply do not interfere in another country. Pakistanis and Pakistani Pashtuns felt love and brotherhood with the Afghan people (for many reasons: main one which was we are all so called 'Muslim'). That is why we stumbled into Afghanistan when we shouldn't have. Of course if USA is urging us to do something we just can't resist which has always been our problem.

The Pakistani government did it for its own interest not notions of love.

After 4 Million Afghans were killed in that war and the civil war because we thought it fit to interfere the Afghans don't really like us, especially Northern Alliance supporters. I have never heard an Afghan, Pashtun or otherwise say anything good about Pakistan. What did Pakistan gain by getting involved in a war there. We have to ask ourselves this fundamental question.

Pakistan gained for its own interests. It wasn't in its interest to have the Soviet Union on its doorstep at the time. They would have liked a Baloch-Soviet area also.

Ironically it's not in Pakistan's interest to have America on its doorstep in Afghanistan either now. It's too pro-Indian.

Imran Khan has the interests of Pakistan approximately right.

Pakistan has to declare itself neutral to whatever goes on in Afghanistan. Taliban, no-Taliban its not our business. Let the Afghans decide. Our sympathy for the Afghan people did nothing but distance us two brothers.

So Pakistan should allow Iran and Russia and other states to arm the Northern Alliance while it sits there not arming the Pashtuns? You think most real Pashtuns would like this in Afghanistan?

Today it hasn't only affected Pashtuns on that side. Its affected our side too. Pashtuns are frustrated in South Waziristan and Swat and are questioning past government policies and feel alienated. The army is incapable of fighting conventional war and causes damage to Pashtun houses and lives. Pakistan is losing.

That is why I have constantly been saying Pakistan government has to pay attention to what the Pashtun wants or it will alienate the Pashtun.

I agree with you on this only. Drone strikes is all about pimping themselves. Imran Khan is right on this issue again.

[roadrunner]

your counter argument is a extremely pathetic.

[roadrunner]

go away. you're lowering the already low quality of debate here.

[Ghundal]

MALCOLM X: THE HOUSE NEGRO AND THE FIELD NEGRO - YouTube

"Back during slavery, when Black people like me talked to the slaves, they didn't kill 'em, they sent some old house Negro along behind him to undo what he said. You have to read the history of slavery to understand this. There were two kinds of Negroes. There was that old house Negro and the field Negro.

And the house Negro always looked out for his master. When the field Negroes got too much out of line, he held them back in check. He put 'em back on the plantation. The house Negro could afford to do that because he lived better than the field Negro. He ate better, he dressed better, and he lived in a better house. He lived right up next to his master - in the attic or the basement. He ate the same food his master ate and wore his same clothes. And he could talk just like his master - good diction. And he loved his master more than his master loved himself. That's why he didn't want his master hurt. If the master got sick, he'd say, "What's the matter, boss, we sick?" When the master's house caught afire, he'd try and put the fire out. He didn't want his master's house burned. He never wanted his master's property threatened. And he was more defensive of it than the master was.

That was the house Negro. But then you had some field Negroes, who lived in huts, had nothing to lose. They wore the worst kind of clothes. They ate the worst food. And they caught hell. They felt the sting of the lash. They hated their master. Oh yes, they did. If the master got sick, they'd pray that the master died. If the master's house caught afire, they'd pray for a strong wind to come along. This was the difference between the two.

And today you still have house Negroes and field Negroes. I'm a field Negro."

- Malcom X

[Ghundal]

Salamoona Mostafa,

I am a Pashtun, and I can say that this phraseology ought to be trouble-some to you:

"There is no point in America being there and expecting the people to suddenly be democractic, if the soldeirs are unable to tolerant and follow the laws of their own land, how are they going to confront the Taliban,who only needs to hold a Quran in the air, and the firing will stop, the real danger is in Pakistan where most issues are controlled. Afghanistan and its people are very very untrustworthy and backward."

These are Soldat's own words on the ex Muslims website. This is a major stereotype and caricature.

Ex implies someone who might very well fall into the your definition of apostacy above.

It is not the ex Muslim part that ought to trouble you as you and I have had discussions about faith and this has nothing to do with faith.

Instead the thing you should consider is that the data needs to be blinded and separated from personal feeling. Merely because Soldat says a few things that match what you may feel is the true history of the region (about 15% of his beliefs I would guesstimate), doesn't make his proposed set of experiments on the Afghan people any different than how you feel about Abdul Azzam, the Americans, the Pakistani political establishment, Iran, India, or the Russians.

For instance, if the data is the set of words:
"Afghanistan and its people are very very untrustworthy and backwards."

and I coupled this to the following words:

"The Afghan people must be forced to accept xyz."

And I said that Maiwand, Arab fighters, Pakistanis, and others had said such things, your scorn for such groups would be much more than that of Soldat, who idolizes Najibullah?

Even though Taj Wardak himself has said that the beign of Afghanistan's existence... the climactic moment and instigation of its downfall was the communist invasion? And I will not accept the Brzenski cop outs, the idea that somehow a 20 year old OBL or Abdul Azzam lured the Russians in. That is still no excuse. Countries make choices and the USSR made its choice and various people amongst the Afghans and Pakistanis chose them.

You can build an easy narrative out of Soldat's past references here where he clearly, in his own words refers to forced reprogramming of the Pashtun people. He has advocated an almost reverse bloody momentum, nearly as ferocious as how he views the Taliban, to make his views acceptable. Basically he advocates what Tacitus said the Romans did: they created a desolation and called it peace.

I think there is an easy to run experiment and I am not a betting man, but I will make the following gamble with you to be repaid when you come to the US. If you win, I buy you dinner, if I win I still buy you dinner (meaning not a real bet at all)

If were to airdrop Soldat into Kandahar's country side, Waziristan, into Kunar, Nuristan, etc and we were to air drop Maiwand... remove all soldiers and Taliban... and let them say all the same things they say here, are you really telling me, based on your travels through these regions we both have seen that Maiwand would be hanged before Soldat if you let them talk ad infinitum in front of mashraan and jirgaay? lol or better yet let them give dha jumaay khutbaas.

Why is this important? Because if historian Kawun Kakar said that the Taliban did not change life for the rustic Pashtun at all.... what we can surmise is that Maiwand is closer to norm there than Soldat is.

I personally believe that the rural masses are the heart of Afghanistan and have the right to self determination.

If you consider Maiwand's ideas (though Maiwand hails from Afghanistan as well) as foreign, Paki, Saudi or whatever label is given to them... then Soldat, who is a Pakistani by birth and nationality has launched his own set of foreign ideas emanating from Russia and worse places.

So either recognize Maiwand's truer authenticity or at least treat the two equally to be true to what you have been saying. I.e. he (soldat) is no different than Jamiat Islamia, ANP, PMAP, etc etc or any other ideology emanating from beyond the durand line. He is just another in a long line of experimenters.

Barakzai,

I think they may actually want you to believe that people like Soldat are welcomed in Afghanistan versus people like Maiwand even though anyone with common senses knows That is not true.

[faye]

hey, field nigga, ghundal. how's it going sleeping out in the open, under the stars, with the bison? or are you in an ole tumble down wooden shack or a tipi, cooking over a wood fire? trapping trout from the stream and gathering wild berries. good life isn't it?
don't forget to use sun screen, lol.

[Manzareh]

Go stand outside without sunscreen and watch your skin burn, even the sun knows you dont belong in Australia.

[faye]

Go stand outside without sunscreen and watch your skin burn, even the sun knows you dont belong in Australia.

haha, manzareh, i'm a brownie. have never used sunscreen, no skin cancers either. even after basking naked in the ozzie sunshine
so your 'pink' fantasies about my butt are just your fantasies. enjoy.

[Manzareh]

White skin wasnt made for climate in Australia, but your one in a million faye, i suppose your the best looking pensioner around aswel.

[faye]

is that your green monkey boyfriend manzareh? good lookin'. actually the 2 of you look a bit similar. cousins, yeah?