My reaction on Soldat Amir (An apostate Pashtun nationalist and house-negro) in Pasht

[Maiwand]

[MostafaM]

1. You can only be an apostate IF you believed and left your religion afterwards.

2. Why do you use the term "nationalist" as a curse word?

3. If your stupid video contained any logical refutation of what Soldat Amir is saying, people would have taken it seriously but you only resort to name calling and don´t tackle the content of what he is saying.

4. How would you like it if I call you a "bearded, woman beating, people decapitating moron with an IQ of 65"?
Right, you wouldn´t like it.

" Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law without contradiction."
[Kant]

Stop preaching water while drinking wine, my internationalistic-ikhwani friend.
Your communist brothers in crime were defeated, you are next.

[Ghundal]

Soldats not a Pashtun nationalist , just a correction.

Disregarding the fact that nationalism is wrong, he is not even a nationalist because he hates Pashtuns and calls them backwards and untrustworthy (his own words). Nationalists always believe in the independence of their country

Right, Afghan Communists /Awami National Party are an insult and a mockery of the term nationalist.

He is indeed a house negroe/uncle Tom. He probably applied for membership in the English Defense League but was rejected because they only accept Anglo Saxons

Doesn't he know that the EDL are anti-immigrant and also anti-Children of immigrants

[MostafaM]

Why should he hate Pashtuns if he expresses his views of what is wrong with Pashtun sociaty?

Caring about something doesn´t always lead to praising it. If you really care, you critisize, too. He has proven that he cares.

And who are you to call anyone a "non-Pashtun"?

Are you Pashtun?

[Ghundal]

The "Pashtun Nationalist" movement does not exist within the confines of some pathetic nostalgic Communists or Athiests. These people are fake nationalists. They hate the people they claim to work for. Under the guise of "criticism" they promote the bloodshed and whole murder of the Afghan nation.

In a dictionary, these expatriat nationalists would not be considered an example of nationalism, however, twisted their warped definition of it is.


French Nationalists and American Nationalists did not support the occupation of their country under some guise of calling natives of the country "foreign proxies." (Disregard the fact, that American nationalists are not Americans really to begin with)


Secondly, there is no such thing as a Pashtun apostate/secularists. Its just not welcome


Afghans beat and bloodied Najib, and hung his dirty body from a nice crane.


Afghans do not like occupation


Soldat is not a Muslim, and he is not a Pashtun


99% of Pashtuns are Muslims from the hinterlands of Kandahar through Afghanistan to Waziristan.

[MostafaM]

What were Pashtuns before Islam arrived in central asia?

Is Pashtun code of honour compatible with Islam?

Let´s clear these question first.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Why should he hate Pashtuns if he expresses his views of what is wrong with Pashtun sociaty?

Caring about something doesn´t always lead to praising it. If you really care, you critisize, too. He has proven that he cares.

And who are you to call anyone a "non-Pashtun"?

Are you Pashtun?

Salamoona Mostafa,

I am a Pashtun, and I can say that this phraseology ought to be trouble-some to you:

"There is no point in America being there and expecting the people to suddenly be democractic, if the soldeirs are unable to tolerant and follow the laws of their own land, how are they going to confront the Taliban,who only needs to hold a Quran in the air, and the firing will stop, the real danger is in Pakistan where most issues are controlled. Afghanistan and its people are very very untrustworthy and backward."

These are Soldat's own words on the ex Muslims website. This is a major stereotype and caricature.

Ex implies someone who might very well fall into the your definition of apostacy above.

It is not the ex Muslim part that ought to trouble you as you and I have had discussions about faith and this has nothing to do with faith.

Instead the thing you should consider is that the data needs to be blinded and separated from personal feeling. Merely because Soldat says a few things that match what you may feel is the true history of the region (about 15% of his beliefs I would guesstimate), doesn't make his proposed set of experiments on the Afghan people any different than how you feel about Abdul Azzam, the Americans, the Pakistani political establishment, Iran, India, or the Russians.

For instance, if the data is the set of words:
"Afghanistan and its people are very very untrustworthy and backwards."

and I coupled this to the following words:

"The Afghan people must be forced to accept xyz."

And I said that Maiwand, Arab fighters, Pakistanis, and others had said such things, your scorn for such groups would be much more than that of Soldat, who idolizes Najibullah?

Even though Taj Wardak himself has said that the beign of Afghanistan's existence... the climactic moment and instigation of its downfall was the communist invasion? And I will not accept the Brzenski cop outs, the idea that somehow a 20 year old OBL or Abdul Azzam lured the Russians in. That is still no excuse. Countries make choices and the USSR made its choice and various people amongst the Afghans and Pakistanis chose them.

You can build an easy narrative out of Soldat's past references here where he clearly, in his own words refers to forced reprogramming of the Pashtun people. He has advocated an almost reverse bloody momentum, nearly as ferocious as how he views the Taliban, to make his views acceptable. Basically he advocates what Tacitus said the Romans did: they created a desolation and called it peace.

I think there is an easy to run experiment and I am not a betting man, but I will make the following gamble with you to be repaid when you come to the US. If you win, I buy you dinner, if I win I still buy you dinner (meaning not a real bet at all)

If were to airdrop Soldat into Kandahar's country side, Waziristan, into Kunar, Nuristan, etc and we were to air drop Maiwand... remove all soldiers and Taliban... and let them say all the same things they say here, are you really telling me, based on your travels through these regions we both have seen that Maiwand would be hanged before Soldat if you let them talk ad infinitum in front of mashraan and jirgaay? lol or better yet let them give dha jumaay khutbaas.

Why is this important? Because if historian Kawun Kakar said that the Taliban did not change life for the rustic Pashtun at all.... what we can surmise is that Maiwand is closer to norm there than Soldat is.

I personally believe that the rural masses are the heart of Afghanistan and have the right to self determination.

If you consider Maiwand's ideas (though Maiwand hails from Afghanistan as well) as foreign, Paki, Saudi or whatever label is given to them... then Soldat, who is a Pakistani by birth and nationality has launched his own set of foreign ideas emanating from Russia and worse places.

So either recognize Maiwand's truer authenticity or at least treat the two equally to be true to what you have been saying. I.e. he (soldat) is no different than Jamiat Islamia, ANP, PMAP, etc etc or any other ideology emanating from beyond the durand line. He is just another in a long line of experimenters.

[MostafaM]

99% of Pashtuns are Muslims from the hinterlands of Kandahar through Afghanistan to Waziristan.

If you acknowledge that 99% of Pashtuns are Muslim,

what are the 1% of Pashtuns that are non-Muslims?

[Ghundal]

nothing to clear up about that past or present. Afghan Communists were simply people who hated everything about Afghans/Pashtuns, and wanted to mimic European "culture" (Marx,Kant, crap) BS, and tried to impose it on the rest of the nation through supporting foreign war/ and causing bloodshed, murdering thousands of Afghans in the process.

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=26236

Black White Supremist Dave Chappelle Complete - YouTube

[MostafaM]

Salamoona Mostafa,

I am a Pashtun, and I can say that this phraseology ought to be trouble-some to you:

"There is no point in America being there and expecting the people to suddenly be democractic, if the soldeirs are unable to tolerant and follow the laws of their own land, how are they going to confront the Taliban,who only needs to hold a Quran in the air, and the firing will stop, the real danger is in Pakistan where most issues are controlled. Afghanistan and its people are very very untrustworthy and backward."

These are Soldat's own words on the ex Muslims website. This is a major stereotype and caricature.

Ex implies someone who might very well fall into the your definition of apostacy above.

It is not the ex Muslim part that ought to trouble you as you and I have had discussions about faith and this has nothing to do with faith.

Instead the thing you should consider is that the data needs to be blinded and separated from personal feeling. Merely because Soldat says a few things that match what you may feel is the true history of the region (about 15% of his beliefs I would guesstimate), doesn't make his proposed set of experiments on the Afghan people any different than how you feel about Abdul Azzam, the Americans, the Pakistani political establishment, Iran, India, or the Russians.

For instance, if the data is the set of words:
"Afghanistan and its people are very very untrustworthy and backwards."

and I coupled this to the following words:

"The Afghan people must be forced to accept xyz."

And I said that Maiwand, Arab fighters, Pakistanis, and others had said such things, your scorn for such groups would be much more than that of Soldat, who idolizes Najibullah?

Even though Taj Wardak himself has said that the beign of Afghanistan's existence... the climactic moment and instigation of its downfall was the communist invasion? And I will not accept the Brzenski cop outs, the idea that somehow a 20 year old OBL or Abdul Azzam lured the Russians in. That is still no excuse. Countries make choices and the USSR made its choice and various people amongst the Afghans and Pakistanis chose them.

You can build an easy narrative out of Soldat's past references here where he clearly, in his own words refers to forced reprogramming of the Pashtun people. He has advocated an almost reverse bloody momentum, nearly as ferocious as how he views the Taliban, to make his views acceptable. Basically he advocates what Tacitus said the Romans did: they created a desolation and called it peace.

I think there is an easy to run experiment and I am not a betting man, but I will make the following gamble with you to be repaid when you come to the US. If you win, I buy you dinner, if I win I still buy you dinner (meaning not a real bet at all)

If were to airdrop Soldat into Kandahar's country side, Waziristan, into Kunar, Nuristan, etc and we were to air drop Maiwand... remove all soldiers and Taliban... and let them say all the same things they say here, are you really telling me, based on your travels through these regions we both have seen that Maiwand would be hanged before Soldat?

Why is this important? Because if historian Kawun Kakar said that the Taliban did not change life for the rustic Pashtun at all.... what we can surmise is that Maiwand is closer to norm there than Soldat is.

I personally believe that the rural masses are the heart of Afghanistan and have the right to self determination.

If you consider Maiwand's ideas (though Maiwand hails from Afghanistan as well) as foreign, Paki, Saudi or whatever label is given to them... then Soldat, who is a Pakistani by birth and nationality has launched his own set of foreign ideas emanating from Russia and worse places.

So either recognize Maiwand's truer authenticity or at least treat the two equally to be true to what you have been saying.

I wasn´t aware of these words of Soldat Amir.

But in general we have to accept that there non-Muslim Pashtuns, too.

I have come across many atheists, agnostics aswell as real pious Muslims from the Pashtuns I have met.

I have met exchange students from Jalalabad who came to the University of Bochum to study Economics and Germanistic. All were Pashtun and most of them were agnostics.

The concept of Pashtun=Muslim is wrong because these are two different categoris.....we can´t equate religion and ethnic background.

AND, Soldat is not Pakistani by birth or anything. Waziristan is occupied and disputed territory and his forefathers settled in modern day Afghanistan and as far as I know served in the military.

Your words regarding the bet: LOL that´s just mean! Betting on who would survive and who would not.

From my personal experience, I know that Taliban were welcomed in Kandahar and surrounding areas but everywhere else they were just tolerated. They collected weaponry in all parts of Afghanistan but not in Paktika, Paktia and Khost because the tribes there wouldn´t let them.
They banned music, attan and dhol everywhere, except for the places mentioned.

My father was in Paktia in 1996 and my uncle got into a small dispute with a 20 year old Taliban border guard who told him to grow a beard by saying " Gira sarra be kha gheshtely brekhey!" (You would look stronger with a beard!). My uncle, a 64 year old ex-police officer and Jihad veteran just replied "Be gira sarra ham gheshteley yu, haleka!" (We are strong enough without a beard, too.) They knew where they could implement their world view and where they couldn´t.

To come back to our bet:
I am pretty sure Maiwand would have better chances to survive.
But Maiwand is close to get hanged for his internationalistic rhetoric alá Hisb-e Islami of the 80ies, too, because people are fed up with the "Ummah talking" of those who behead tribal elders.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

1. You can only be an apostate IF you believed and left your religion afterwards.

2. Why do you use the term "nationalist" as a curse word?

3. If your stupid video contained any logical refutation of what Soldat Amir is saying, people would have taken it seriously but you only resort to name calling and don´t tackle the content of what he is saying.

4. How would you like it if I call you a "bearded, woman beating, people decapitating moron with an IQ of 65"?
Right, you wouldn´t like it.

" Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law without contradiction."
[Kant]

Stop preaching water while drinking wine, my internationalistic-ikhwani friend.
Your communist brothers in crime were defeated, you are next.

Also, did you listen to the video? It appears that Maiwand is making a series of concessions and discussing the fact that in the era of the Russkey war those that called themselves holy warriors are the same folks sitting at the beck and call of the Americans as well. He makes it rather clear that a large number, in his view, of these folks were motivated by self interest.

Even if I think that a video is not going to be informative, before slamming it I make sure to watch it my friend.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I wasn´t aware of these words of Soldat Amir.

But in general we have to accept that there non-Muslim Pashtuns, too.

I have come across many atheists, agnostics aswell as real pious Muslims from the Pashtuns I have met.

I have met exchange students from Jalalabad who came to the University of Bochum to study Economics and Germanistic. All were Pashtun and most of them were agnostics.

The concept of Pashtun=Muslim is wrong because these are two different categoris.....we can´t equate religion and ethnic background.

AND, Soldat is not Pakistani by birth or anything. Waziristan is occupied and disputed territory and his forefathers settled in modern day Afghanistan and as far as I know served in the military.

Your words regarding the bet: LOL that´s just mean! Betting on who would survive and who would not.

From my personal experience, I know that Taliban were welcomed in Kandahar and surrounding areas but everywhere else they were just tolerated. They collected weaponry in all parts of Afghanistan but not in Paktika, Paktia and Khost because the tribes there wouldn´t let them.
They banned music, attan and dhol everywhere, except for the places mentioned.

My father was in Paktia in 1996 and my uncle got into a small dispute with a 20 year old Taliban border guard who told him to grow a beard by saying " Gira sarra be kha gheshtely brekhey!" (You would look stronger with a beard!). My uncle, a 64 year old ex-police officer and Jihad veteran just replied "Be gira sarra ham gheshteley yu, haleka!" (We are strong enough without a beard, too.) They knew where they could implement their world view and where they couldn´t.

To come back to our bet:
I am pretty sure Maiwand would have better chances to survive.
But Maiwand is close to get hanged for his internationalistic rhetoric alá Hisb-e Islami of the 80ies because people are fed up with the "Ummah talking" of those who behead tribal elders.

Yeah I agree, I mean if a part of my life long message to Pashtuns in Pakistan is to seize back the day and reclaim the the word Afghan... that it is the ethnic heritage of the Pashtuns everywhere then certainly I agree. I mean for instance, what might we call Basshar Al Assaad... his subsect may be out of the fold of even Shia Islam but he is still an Arab. By the same token, Najibullah was unfortunately Pashtun.

I think that when folks use the binding tie term of Islam = Pashtun they are emulating the ever present argument we face here in teh states which is: does criticizing the war etc etc etc make you less American in terms of nationality? For instance is Ron Paul less a patriot of an American? His followers would say absolutely not he is a patriot par excellance... his detractors would say he is UnAmerican. So Ghaznavi for instance describes himself as a agnostic but still has very fervent attachments to his ethnicity... he is also very much anti the war it appears. So I think it would be difficult to sayor prove that ethnic Pashtuns who are agnostic are all evil etc.

I assume its this same sentiment in regard to this argument. What I mean is that I think Ghundal views Soldat as ethnically Pashtun but views him as not adhering to the predominant Pashto culture.

Another example that is more graspable is how Afghans of all factions view the Muhammadzai in Kabul. So many communists and Islamists alike refer to them as Persianized or even as non pashtuns. Ethnically though Zahir Shah was a Pashtun no doubt by DNA.

[MostafaM]

I have seen that video many times.

The problem is that he doesn´t tackle any of Soldat Armi´s arguements that he brings by exposing the hijacking of the resistance by regional and international powers to introduce their proxy war on our soil.

The very fact that Amin, although a staunch communist and criminal, had opened channels of negotiations with the resistance and his unnatural departure from this world, makes it clear that there was and still is a large segment of those "communists" (I don´t consider them real communists because they didn´t know what dialectic materialism is.) who actually knew that this problem should be sorted out by Afghans themselves, communist or islamist.

The assassination of Amin and the sidelining of his people with force just to be replaced by hardcore Parchamis with internationalistic tendencies clearly shows that not all of them were "Pashtun hating Moscow worshippers" as Ghundal said.

Terrible mistakes were made by both sides.

The regionalisation of an internal and Afghan problem was the major negative outcome of the events from the Saur Coup to the entry of the Soviet Army on 27.12.1979.

[Ghundal]

Why should he hate Pashtuns if he expresses his views of what is wrong with Pashtun sociaty?

Caring about something doesn´t always lead to praising it. If you really care, you critisize, too. He has proven that he cares.

And who are you to call anyone a "non-Pashtun"?

Are you Pashtun?

The fact of the matter is is that neither the Kant ideologies that you ascribe to or the Secularist ideologies that Soldat ascribes to fit within Pashtun society. If Secularism did, then there would have never been a backlash.

Pashtuns ARE Muslim.



Soldat "does not care" about Pashtuns unless you consider advocating and explicitly supporting the whole scale slaughter of Afghans to force "progress" on them as "caring."

And since you tend to support his views, the same applies to you then.

If you acknowledge that 99% of Pashtuns are Muslim,

what are the 1% of Pashtuns that are non-Muslims?

99% of Pashtuns are Muslims, and as for the 1%, whats the point.

Whats your religion?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I have seen that video many times.

The problem is that he doesn´t tackle any of Soldat Armi´s arguements that he brings by exposing the hijacking of the resistance by regional and international powers to introduce their proxy war on our soil.

The very fact that Amin, although a staunch communist and criminal, had opened channels of negotiations with the resistance and his unnatural departure from this world, makes it clear that there was and still is a large segment of those "communists" (I don´t consider them real communists because they didn´t know what dialectic materialism is.) who actually knew that this problem should be sorted out by Afghans themselves, communist or islamist.

The assassination of Amin and the sidelining of his people with force just to be replaced by hardcore Parchamis with internationalistic tendencies clearly shows that not all of them were "Pashtun hating Moscow worshippers" as Ghundal said.

Terrible mistakes were made by both sides.

The regionalisation of an internal and Afghan problem was the major negative outcome of the events from the Saur Coup to the entry of the Soviet Army on 27.12.1979.

Yeah Atmaars representative was here a few months ago. We argued over this at dinner. He was a die hard Atmaar fan because of the loyalty and prestige Atmaar had bestowed on him by sending him here... but where we met was at jumaa lmaanzaa. I mean the guy was praying right near me. So my suspicion is that Atmaar and his proteges have no idea what Lenin or Trotsky or these guys wrote about but rather its was just an idea of opposition they attached themselves to. Najibullah, from his early parlances appears to have been a bit more informed about communism and its underlying views on concepts important to pashtuns that he reneged on.