My reaction on Soldat Amir (An apostate Pashtun nationalist and house-negro) in Pasht

[Ghundal]

Mostafa,

Afghans did not like the Communists, the hanging of Najib is enough of an explanation, and no, that event was not choreographed by Hamid Gul and Brezinski

Buddy, the more you go on about the "proxy wars," the more it appears that Pakistan, in your mind ,seems to be behind every single civil movement from history to present, whether it be the 1960s civil rights movement, the "Arab" / Islamic Spring, or the Occupy Wall Street movements? Was Pakistan behind the Cairo Revolution? The Syrian Uprising? What state cares about other states, and allows their own state to sink in an economic cess pool

Is Pakistan behind snow blizzards too? Pakistan cant even get its own act together.

The way you talk of Pakistan, you make it appear to be some great and hugely powerful state that seems to control the whole world

Like these Indians thinking Pakistan is backing Maoists. WHat is it with linking any movement around the world with Pakistan? If this is indeed true, then Pakistan must be addicted to bettering other peoples societies while destroying their own???

http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/link-between-isi-maoists-revealed_761502.html

[MostafaM]

I assume its this same sentiment in regard to this argument. What I mean is that I think Ghundal views Soldat as ethnically Pashtun but views him as not adhering to the predominant Pashto culture.

Another example that is more graspable is how Afghans of all factions view the Muhammadzai in Kabul. So many communists and Islamists alike refer to them as Persianized or even as non pashtuns. Ethnically though Zahir Shah was a Pashtun no doubt by DNA.

I agree with your words.

But I remind you once again: if we go deep into Pashtuwali and Pashtun heritage, we find alot of things that are dominant aspects of life of the Pashtun sociaty but are not compatible with Islam.

What is Pashtunwali and when did it appear on the surface of this planet?
I am pretty sure it has certain Islamic aspects but it is clear that it originates from pre-islamic times.

What were Pashtuns before they were Muslims?

I consider everyone Pashtuns who identifies himself as a Pashtun and has feelings towards his people, regardless of what they believe in (I can´t check anyone´s heart and what they really believe in) or if they speak Pashto well or not.

There is a saying in Pashto:

"Ka Pashto khaberey keray neshey, Pashto kho kawelay she!"

If you can´t speak Pashto, you can do Pashto.

I always understood that "doing Pashto" is by far much more important than just speaking it.

[MostafaM]

99% of Pashtuns are Muslims, and as for the 1%, whats the point.

Whats your religion?

1. The point is that if you acknowledge yourself that 1% of Pashtuns aren´t Muslim, you acknowledge that they are Pashtun but not Muslims, so you refute your own arguement in one sentence.

2. My religion is not something you should be concerned with.

[MostafaM]

Mostafa,

Afghans did not like the Communists, the hanging of Najib is enough of an explanation, and no, that event was not choreographed by Hamid Gul and Brezinski

Buddy, the more you go on about the "proxy wars," the more it appears that Pakistan, in your mind ,seems to be behind every single civil movement from history to present, whether it be the 1960s civil rights movement, the "Arab" / Islamic Spring, or the Occupy Wall Street movements? Was Pakistan behind the Cairo Revolution? The Syrian Uprising? What state cares about other states, and allows their own state to sink in an economic cess pool

Is Pakistan behind snow blizzards too? Pakistan cant even get its own act together.

The way you talk of Pakistan, you make it appear to be some great and hugely powerful state that seems to control the whole world

Like these Indians thinking Pakistan is backing Maoists. WHat is it with linking any movement around the world with Pakistan? If this is indeed true, then Pakistan must be addicted to bettering other peoples societies while destroying their own???


http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation...ed_761502.html

1. When you talk of "Afghans", do you mean all Afghans or the representatives of the Afghan nation?

2. As far as we know, Taliban soldiers tortured, killed and pulled him behind their truck through the streets.
I could care less about his fate but implying that his execution was done with the OK of an entire nation is pure ignorance.

3. I don´t get your arguementation structure because you jump constantly from event to event and generalize way too much to be taken seriously in a political debate.

[Ghundal]

1. The point is that if you acknowledge yourself that 1% of Pashtuns aren´t Muslim, you acknowledge that they are Pashtun but not Muslims, so you refute your own arguement in one sentence.

2. My is not something you should be concerned with.

It appears you do not know what figure of speech is?

technically, a polytheist cant be a Pashtun



Fact is, at this present juncture in time, Pashtuns are on the whole Muslim.


Talking about pre-Islamic identity has no relevance because it is not now.

NOW, the fact is Pashtuns are overwhelmingly Muslim. That should answer your question about whether or not Islam is compatible with Pashtunwali.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I agree with your words.

But I remind you once again: if we go deep into Pashtuwali and Pashtun heritage, we find alot of things that are dominant aspects of life of the Pashtun sociaty but are not compatible with Islam.

What is Pashtunwali and when did it appear on the surface of this planet?
I am pretty sure it has certain Islamic aspects but it is clear that it originates from pre-islamic times.

What were Pashtuns before they were Muslims?

I consider everyone Pashtuns who identifies himself as a Pashtun and has feelings towards his people, regardless of what they believe in (I can´t check anyone´s heart and what they really believe in) or if they speak Pashto well or not.

There is a saying in Pashto:

"Ka Pashto khaberey keray neshey, Pashto kho kawelay she!"

If you can´t speak Pashto, you can do Pashto.

I always understood that "doing Pashto" is by far much more important than just speaking it.

Yeah for instance... just one generation ago and still ongoing, if a woman's husband died then her brother inherited her in marriage. This is a time honored custom in Pashtun families. In fact if a groom died before marriage the poor bride was tied to the man's home and either she could not marry or she had to gain the blessings of the groom's household. More likely, a cousin or brother in the grooms family was to step in line and marry her. This is a very tribal custom that the Quran specifically put a ban on that persisted. Divorce was also generally not at all allowed or consequences would be suffered on the clan/tribe... once again not an Islamic prescription.

[MostafaM]

It appears you do not know what figure of speech is?

technically, a polytheist cant be a Pashtun



Fact is, at this present juncture in time, Pashtuns are on the whole Muslim.


Talking about pre-Islamic identity has no relevance because it is not now.

NOW, the fact is Pashtuns are overwhelmingly Muslim. That should answer your question about whether or not Islam is compatible with Pashtunwali.

The roots are pre-islamic and parts of it are still not compatible with Islam.
The whole concept of tribal loyalty goes against Islam. The whole concept of taking revenge is anti-islamic. Under Pashtunwali you are allowed to take revenge on your enemies tribe and family.

You should know what you are talking about before you state it.

I know what a figure of speech is.
But if you use polemic arguements, I will do so, too.
:-)

[Ghundal]

If you knew what figure of speech is, then you wouldnt be talking about the 1% LOL

[Ghundal]

The roots are pre-islamic and parts of it are still not compatible with Islam.
The whole concept of tribal loyalty goes against Islam. The whole concept of taking revenge is anti-islamic. Under Pashtunwali you are allowed to take revenge on your enemies tribe and family.

You should know what you are talking about before you state it.

I know what a figure of speech is.
But if you use polemic arguements, I will do so, too.
:-)

Again, like I said, I am not asking about pre-Islamic times, nor is it of any concern to the present

I was commenting on how Soldat is an Uncle Tom/. House negroe, and you took offense/ got offended.

See you can say "I dont support NATO, I prefer NATO"

serious?

[din]

salam. vvvvvvv good video.

[MostafaM]

Again, like I said, I am not asking about pre-Islamic times, nor is it of any concern to the present

I was commenting on how Soldat is an Uncle Tom/. House negroe, and you took offense/ got offended

I don´t take offense in what people say online in general.

I only debate here and exchange views, that´s all.

Just asked you what it means to be Pashtun aka Muslim and why you equal two different categories. I got my answer, we exchanged views excessivly. Since Pashtunwali itself has large segments going against islamic preaching, the concept of a "non Muslim Pashtun" shouldn´t be a hard thing to grasp.

[Ghundal]

Like I said, I commented on the video agreeing that Soldat is an Uncle Tom/House Negroe

As for you, a person who "does not support NATO, but prefers NATO" you can exchange your "serious" views with someone else

[MostafaM]

See you can say "I dont support NATO, I prefer NATO"

1. You quoted me wrongly here.

2. You took it out of context.

3. You omitted the part where I say: I prefer Nato over Afghanistan being a field of another proxy war.

You should get in touch with the English language and the correct way of conducting in a debate.

You cannot polemize against me because I tackle your flaws one by one without resorting to personal attacks and diverting the discussion.

[Ghundal]

ok however you want it to appear

[Ghundal]

[QUOTE]

1. You quoted me wrongly here.

2. You took it out of context.

You proved it yourself with your own words.

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=25738

Instead of admitting like Soldat (an Uncle Tom), you lie and said you did not support NATOs war.