North Waziristan tribes wary of brutal foreigners

[TheCongo]

I am not smoking, I can't
Almost everything I know about Pashtuns comes from Pashtuns or from people who spent years in Afghanistan, living among Pashtuns. I have no reason to criticize Arabs or Pashtuns or Islam. All my interest in Orient had a beginning years ago in Arabic countries so no point to criticize my own interest.
And writting about Pashtun Islam I only referred to what had been written here by a Pashtun.

You know nothing about my belief. So I would appreciate if you stopped referring my posts to the secularism etc. If you want to offend me, please feel free but let alone belief, origins etc.

I wonder why people here are not able to argue without referring their quarrels to religion, nations, ethnicity etc.

No, when writing about 'Pashtun Islam', you claimed (falsely) that it was common for Pashtuns of Afghanistan to refer to their religion as such. This was a lie you made. In reality, there is no such thing. Next time you allege something so stupid, make sure you don't purposely attribute incorrect sources just to make your lie believable.

Now you are going back from your initial assertion that it was "Pashtuns living among Pakistan and Afghanistan" saying that. You did not think al-arab would be able to catch that lie, but when I caught it you admit now that you had only read it from Soldar Amir, an athiest non-Pashtun.

[TheCongo]

These people have an agenda which is inherently against Islam and in order to slyly inculcate it, they divide Muslims apart into separate groups to weaken them.

[یاسمینه]

No, when writing about 'Pashtun Islam', you claimed (falsely) that it was common for Pashtuns of Afghanistan to refer to their religion as such. This was a lie you made. In reality, there is no such thing. Next time you allege something so stupid, make sure you don't purposely attribute incorrect sources just to make your lie believable.

Now you are going back from your initial assertion that it was "Pashtuns living among Pakistan and Afghanistan" saying that. You did not think al-arab would be able to catch that lie, but when I caught it you admit now that you had only read it from Soldar Amir, an athiest non-Pashtun.

Read carefully my posts. In that post I wrote that I could be wrong. But it doesn't change the fact that I heard that expression from 3 Pashtuns and one non-Pashtun.

Soldat Amir - I thought he is a Pashtun. I am sorry, I do not know him in person.
Why do you think I do lie? Do you really think that everyone lies? I do not lie because I don't have reason for it. And I have nothing to Al-Arab.

[Darweshkhel]

Waziristan zenda bad! The Pashtun tribes of Waziristan are our brothers. We can't abandon them.

[gomal]

Is there anyone from Waziristan here who can give Gomal a few details about the current situation on the ground?

[khushal]

Oh really, ta ya yee che za Pashtin na yam? za Pashto wilay sham, za Maseed yam, day tawda cina na yam, ta shook yeee? pa West shay nust yee, aow Arab para ta mu num bard num ka way?

Have you been to Waziristan? are you even a Wazir,Dawar, Bhittanay, Maseed or Urmur?

You insult another Pashtuns knowledge to make your Arab Jihadi friend happy!

da [---EDITED---] mu sara ma ka wa poyshway!

I know the ground realities in Waziristan much better than you and the Telegraph.

Little children sat in the West with these deluded dreams of a Pashtun resistance non sense, your led by Arabs, your finanaced by them and influenced by them, if you cant accept this fact, then buy yourself a ticket, fly to Islamabad, go on dawoo to Dera Ismail Khan, go to coach station near Tank Adda, travel to gomal, from there, go right into Waziristan, visit Wana, and see for yourself!

I am out. I am not going to be insulted by Children or these so called Western born basement Jihadis thinking they know better than others.

You are the member who called himself ultra nationalist Pashtun who speaks no Pashto nor have ever been to Waziristan. There are hardly any Arabs in waziristan just like Osama was not there. The only Arabs who are there are the ones wanted by NATO and in their home country. They are leading no one but are hiding from persecution.
Show us this evidence that there are thousands of Arabs there leading the rebellion. This is all NATO and PAK Army propaganda to fool the pashtuns that they are being saved from foreigners and all they are killing are foreigners so as to not face a Pashtun backlash. Even the pentagon dismisses your stupidity. Its all indigenous people now like it always has been for thousands of years of resistance to foreigners. this is not different from other rebellions.
You are fooling no one you non pashtun dumbass.

[sanman]

From what I see, Arabs are trying to do the same thing as Brzezinski.

They have experienced suffering and oppression in their homelands, so they have fled to other countries and are trying to recruit the people in these other countries to fight for their cause.

This is just like how Brzezinski fled to America from Poland when it was invaded by the Soviets and turned into a communist state. He then worked hard to gain influence in America, to get the American govt to back his war to liberate his homeland, Poland. As I've said, he didn't want to see the war of liberation take place on his homeland's soil, because that would mean the deaths of many people back in his homeland. Instead, he found some other suckers to fight and die against the Russians, and shed all the blood. Meanwhile, his own brothers back in his homeland were safe from all this warfare, and they got liberation without suffering any bloodshed of their own, because their clever boy Brzezinski suckered others to do all the fighting against the Soviet army.

So similarly, Osama and other Arab revolutionaries want to liberate their Arab homelands, but they don't have the strength to do it by themselves. So they come to Afghans and tell them, "Allah wants you to fight for me/us/Islam. Then we will all have paradise!"

Are you going to be a sucker, and get sucked into someone else's war? Why be so naive? Because of Afghan War, everybody got liberation except the Afghans themselves! Don't you feel a little embarrassed? Has anybody thought about learning some lessons from all this?

There's an old saying: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice - shame on me!"
I hope you understand the meaning of that saying.

[randolph85]

So similarly, Osama and other Arab revolutionaries want to liberate their Arab homelands, but they don't have the strength to do it by themselves. So they come to Afghans and tell them, "Allah wants you to fight for me/us/Islam. Then we will all have paradise!"

u can't be that naive, can u? osama was a nobody in the 80s, a nobody in the early 90s, and finally became a somebody in the late 90s when the US made him someone important. what afghan is fighting for the arabs? i am as anti talib as the next guy but i am not some naive redneck. no talib is fighting for bin laden or his legacy, most talibs have probably never heard of bin laden prior to 9/11. the 30 yr civil war is bigger than some arabs.

[khushal]

From what I see, Arabs are trying to do the same thing as Brzezinski.

They have experienced suffering and oppression in their homelands, so they have fled to other countries and are trying to recruit the people in these other countries to fight for their cause.

This is just like how Brzezinski fled to America from Poland when it was invaded by the Soviets and turned into a communist state. He then worked hard to gain influence in America, to get the American govt to back his war to liberate his homeland, Poland. As I've said, he didn't want to see the war of liberation take place on his homeland's soil, because that would mean the deaths of many people back in his homeland. Instead, he found some other suckers to fight and die against the Russians, and shed all the blood. Meanwhile, his own brothers back in his homeland were safe from all this warfare, and they got liberation without suffering any bloodshed of their own, because their clever boy Brzezinski suckered others to do all the fighting against the Soviet army.

So similarly, Osama and other Arab revolutionaries want to liberate their Arab homelands, but they don't have the strength to do it by themselves. So they come to Afghans and tell them, "Allah wants you to fight for me/us/Islam. Then we will all have paradise!"

Are you going to be a sucker, and get sucked into someone else's war? Why be so naive? Because of Afghan War, everybody got liberation except the Afghans themselves! Don't you feel a little embarrassed? Has anybody thought about learning some lessons from all this?

There's an old saying: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice - shame on me!"
I hope you understand the meaning of that saying.

First Brezinski was not fighting to liberate Poland. He was for the American cause of bringing communism down.

Second It were the Palistinians like Abdul Azzam who were forced to come to Afghanistan and NW Pakistan because their camps in lebonon were shut down by Israels invasion. The first person to invite them was Ahmed Shah Masood. Masood needed Arab money and and Abdul Azzam needed a new base were he can train Arabs for the Palistinian cause. This forced Hekmatyar to ally himself with Osama who brought in more money than Azzam. Azzam's ideology was based on confronting Israel. Osama's ideology evolved after witnessing US troops on land that was the guardians of Mecca and was based on confronting Israels main supporter, the US.

Third, You have to realize that Afghanistan is a landlocked country that have always depended on foreign aid. You cant function in Afghanistan without outside aid. Are you aware that most people in Afghanistan live on people's income that work outside the country like in the west and the Persian gulf. Tribes fight and kill over scraps because there is nothing there. People live in an economic nightmare.
You think people can fight the Soviet Union without outside Aid. You think people can fight NATO without outside Aid. You think people can live without outside Aid.

the few hundred Arabs that are in pakistan and afghanistan can not force the US to beg for negotiations and desperately looking for a dignified exit. It is extremely stupid to think otherwise. The rebellion is a result of NATO's and its Afghan partners incompetence and your stupidity of scapegoating the Arabs is ludicrous.

[sanman]

First Brezinski was not fighting to liberate Poland. He was for the American cause of bringing communism down.

Oh really? And so how come Brzezinski himself has been a supporter of socialism, on the grounds that it will reduce socio-economic divisions within the US/West? He feels the state should have more power over people, in order to avoid disruption and opposition to state policies.

Of course Brzezinski wanted to bring down Soviet communism. How come he was such a big supporter of Communist China during the 70s? He went out of his way to promote collaboration with China as a partner. But China in the 70s was a totally communist state! The only difference was that Communist China was a rival to Communist USSR which was occupying his homeland. China has no border with Poland, because it's far away from there. Likewise Taliban have no border with Poland, so he doesn't have to worry about them harming his homeland. He can laugh while other faraway people have to suffer.

Click on Link:
http://www.1-famous-quotes.com/quote/87459

Do you even know who Pol Pot was? He was a communist -- but a pro-Chinese anti-Soviet communist. And he was the leader of the Khmer Rouge, mass-murderers who killed millions in his country.

Second It were the Palistinians like Abdul Azzam who were forced to come to Afghanistan and NW Pakistan because their camps in lebonon were shut down by Israels invasion. The first person to invite them was Ahmed Shah Masood. Masood needed Arab money and and Abdul Azzam needed a new base were he can train Arabs for the Palistinian cause. This forced Hekmatyar to ally himself with Osama who brought in more money than Azzam. Azzam's ideology was based on confronting Israel. Osama's ideology evolved after witnessing US troops on land that was the guardians of Mecca and was based on confronting Israels main supporter, the US.

It's one thing for Masood to strike a bargain with Arabs to benefit local Afghans, but it's another thing for Taliban to strike a bargain with Arabs to shaft local Afghans. Because Masood was fighting for local sovereignty, while Taliban was fighting to discard local sovereignty and put the Arabs in charge. That's great for Arabs, how was it great for Afghans?

Masood at least wanted to be independent from neighboring powers. Taliban were fighting to make people slaves of neighboring Pakistan. How is that morally equivalent?

Third, You have to realize that Afghanistan is a landlocked country that have always depended on foreign aid. You cant function in Afghanistan without outside aid. Are you aware that most people in Afghanistan live on people's income that work outside the country like in the west and the Persian gulf. Tribes fight and kill over scraps because there is nothing there. People live in an economic nightmare.

You're right that Afghanistan needs to have relations with neighbors for its own benefit. One can argue that even Durand Line negotiations were for this reason. But in this case, Pashtuns have been cut in two - with part of them residing in Pakistan. Because of this, Pakistan cannot afford to allow Afghans/Pashtuns to have any freedom at all, and must deprive them of all sovereignty. Therefore, everyone has to live under a police state - one erected and maintained in the name of God and with a gun to the head, because God and a gun to the head are the only things Pakistan has to offer. Heaven knows they don't have any real money or real benefits to offer Afghans/Pashtuns.

Normally, others should compete for your friendship by each trying to offer you more. Pakistan can't do this, so it uses coercion. It would be nice if India, Pakistan, Iran competed for Afghan attentions by each vying to build more things for Afghans - more roads, more powerplants, more infrastructure. But since Pakistan can't compete by building things, then it tries to compete by blowing things up.

You think people can fight the Soviet Union without outside Aid. You think people can fight NATO without outside Aid. You think people can live without outside Aid.

It's better not to fight and to take the development aid that's being offered. NATO only sends in soldiers later on because Taliban first sends its animals to attack and control areas. NATO brings development because their people are educated, but illiterate Taliban don't even know how to build anything, so they compete through destruction only.

Unlike Taliban/ISI, NATO has far more capabilities than just fighting. They know how to build things.

Western strategy is "Clear, Hold, Build"
Taliban/Pakistan strategy is "Destroy, Terrorize, Madrassa"

the few hundred Arabs that are in pakistan and afghanistan can not force the US to beg for negotiations and desperately looking for a dignified exit. It is extremely stupid to think otherwise. The rebellion is a result of NATO's and its Afghan partners incompetence and your stupidity of scapegoating the Arabs is ludicrous.

Arabs understand that they can hide among Taliban. It's not as if Arab fighters are courageous to separate themselves from the Afghan population. On the contrary, they prefer to hide behind women and children.
Is this what their God teaches them? Is this their idea of heroism? The rest of the world calls it cowardice.

[khushal]

Oh really? And so how come Brzezinski himself has been a supporter of socialism, on the grounds that it will reduce socio-economic divisions within the US/West? He feels the state should have more power over people, in order to avoid disruption and opposition to state policies.

Of course Brzezinski wanted to bring down Soviet communism. How come he was such a big supporter of Communist China during the 70s? He went out of his way to promote collaboration with China as a partner. But China in the 70s was a totally communist state! The only difference was that Communist China was a rival to Communist USSR which was occupying his homeland. China has no border with Poland, because it's far away from there. Likewise Taliban have no border with Poland, so he doesn't have to worry about them harming his homeland. He can laugh while other faraway people have to suffer.

Click on Link:
http://www.1-famous-quotes.com/quote/87459

Do you even know who Pol Pot was? He was a communist -- but a pro-Chinese anti-Soviet communist. And he was a mass-murderer who killed millions in his country.

yes we know who pol pot was, we are not as uneducated or arrogant as you tajiks are who are unable to bring in an effective administration even with foreign help to afghanistan.
These videos you post are just conspiracy theories. China was favored over the soviets because
first china opened trade with the Americans during the nixon administration.
second the soviets were regarded the bigger threat, not the Chinese or pol pot in combodia. Even hekmatyar who gave daily Anti american speeches was getting the bulk of american aid. It is the "my enemy's enemy is my friend" scenerio. bringing down an empire like the soviet union is very tricky, its not as black and white as you would like to think.

It's one thing for Masood to strike a bargain with Arabs to benefit local Afghans, but it's another thing for Taliban to strike a bargain with Arabs to shaft local Afghans. Because Masood was fighting for local sovereignty, while Taliban was fighting to discard local sovereignty and put the Arabs in charge. That's great for Arabs, how was it great for Afghans?

Masood at least wanted to be independent from neighboring powers. Taliban were fighting to make people slaves of neighboring Pakistan. How is that morally equivalent?

Im going to have to disagree. Masood is no hero, he was a sellout. Throughout Afghanistan history people have been calling each other sellouts because like I have stated earlier that it is impossible to function Afghanistan without outside aid. but masood was a sellout because he didnt fight the russians invaders, he cooperated with them.

RAWA.ORG: The Afghan Who Wouldn't Fight (Ahmad Shah Massoud and links with Russians)

You're right that Afghanistan needs to have relations with neighbors for its own benefit. One can argue that even Durand Line negotiations were for this reason. But in this case, Pashtuns have been cut in two - with part of them residing in Pakistan. Because of this, Pakistan cannot afford to allow Afghans/Pashtuns to have any freedom at all, and must deprive them of all sovereignty. Therefore, everyone has to live under a police state - one erected and maintained in the name of God and with a gun to the head, because God and a gun to the head are the only things Pakistan has to offer. Heaven knows they don't have any real money or real benefits to offer Afghans/Pashtuns.

I have no idea what mumbo jumbo you are saying here. But pakistani pashtuns are very pro pakistan. they will stand with the nation of pakistan because it is pakistan that is the only nation that has offered them a real nation in the modern sense. Afghanistan has never been a real nation in the modern sense. It has just been a loosely confederate of pashtun tribes in a cooperative with the feudal Tajiks.

Normally, others should compete for your friendship by each trying to offer you more. Pakistan can't do this, so it uses coercion. It would be nice if India, Pakistan, Iran competed for Afghan attentions by each vying to build more things for Afghans - more roads, more powerplants, more infrastructure. But since Pakistan can't compete by building things, then it tries to compete by blowing things up.

To the Talibans perspective The Karzai/fahim gang are sellouts to NATO, Iran and Russian interests. They are sitting idling by while foreign NATO troops abuse afghan soveriegnty. They are not true leaders. If foreign NATO troops leave today, the indegenous afghans would throw them into the fire tomorrow.

It's better not to fight and to take the development aid that's being offered. NATO only sends in soldiers later on because Taliban first sends its animals to attack and control areas. NATO brings development because their people are educated, but illiterate Taliban don't even know how to build anything, so they compete through destruction only.

Unlike Taliban/ISI, NATO has far more capabilities than just fighting. They know how to build things.

Western strategy is "Clear, Hold, Build"
Taliban/Pakistan strategy is "Destroy, Terrorize, Madrassa"


Arabs understand that they can hide among Taliban. It's not as if Arab fighters are courageous to separate themselves from the Afghan population. On the contrary, they prefer to hide behind women and children.
Is this what their God teaches them? Is this their idea of heroism? The rest of the world calls it cowardice.

Thats not reality. In the ten years that NATO has been in Afghanistan, they have accomplished nothing. they have brought in a corrupt government, corrupt policce, built an Army that is incapable of doing its job. You are just using the ISI arab scapegoat for the incompetence of NATO and the afghan governmnet.

[sanman]

yes we know who pol pot was, we are not as uneducated or arrogant as you tajiks are who are unable to bring in an effective administration even with foreign help to afghanistan.
These videos you post are just conspiracy theories. China was favored over the soviets because first china opened trade with the Americans during the nixon administration.

Again, China was communist, so you're contradicting yourself when you claim that Brzezinski was out to defeat communism in general, instead of Soviets in particular.

second the soviets were regarded the bigger threat, not the Chinese or pol pot in combodia. Even hekmatyar who gave daily Anti american speeches was getting the bulk of american aid. It is the "my enemy's enemy is my friend" scenerio. bringing down an empire like the soviet union is very tricky, its not as black and white as you would like to think.

Again, Hekmatyar was Pakistan's stooge, and not really America's. And Pakistan was interested in supporting religious fanatics, even if their fanaticism extended to anti-Americanism.

As per Pakistan's deal with the US during the 80s, only Pak military/ISI would actually arm and train the mujahedin, and America could only supply arms and funds to Pakistan from a distance.

China is today much more powerful than Russia, and is the No.2 economy in the world, rapidly catching upto the US.
But Brzezinski is still claiming Moscow is the bigger threat, and that it's better for US to ally with Beijing. Now why would he claim that, if you feel he is so loyal to US interests? It's because he's not loyal to US interests, he's loyal to his own people. Why is that so hard for you to recognize?

Im going to have to disagree. Masood is no hero, he was a sellout. Throughout Afghanistan history people have been calling each other sellouts because like I have stated earlier that it is impossible to function Afghanistan without outside aid. but masood was a sellout because he didnt fight the russians invaders, he cooperated with them.

This is another setami-vs-milati argument. The Tajiks all backed Masood and Rabbani. The Uzbeks all backed Dostum. The Hazaras all backed their Wahdatis who got murdered by Talibs.
If you don't like who those communities support, then you might as well say, "I want a divorce. The marriage is dead."

I have no idea what mumbo jumbo you are saying here. But pakistani pashtuns are very pro pakistan. they will stand with the nation of pakistan because it is pakistan that is the only nation that has offered them a real nation in the modern sense. Afghanistan has never been a real nation in the modern sense. It has just been a loosely confederate of pashtun tribes in a cooperative with the feudal Tajiks.

But that's because Afghanistan under its current borders is a by-product of British colonial war. You're telling me that Ahmad Shah Durrani was a feudal Tajik? You seem to have allowed the current situation to affect your memory of history.

Pakistan a modern nation? Pakistan seems to be dependent upon religious medievalism to hold itself together.

To the Talibans perspective The Karzai/fahim gang are sellouts to NATO, Iran and Russian interests. They are sitting idling by while foreign NATO troops abuse afghan soveriegnty. They are not true leaders. If foreign NATO troops leave today, the indegenous afghans would throw them into the fire tomorrow.

Again, this is back to setami-vs-milati argument. Setamis will say Milatis are sellouts, and Milatis will say Setamis are sellouts.

If you can't agree and to live-and-let-live, then get a divorce. No point in continuing the quarrel.

When so many Taliban are from Pakistan, why are they worrying about Pashtuns in Afghanistan when you say they have that wonderful modern Pakistani nation to give all their love to?

Thats not reality. In the ten years that NATO has been in Afghanistan, they have accomplished nothing. they have brought in a corrupt government, corrupt policce, built an Army that is incapable of doing its job. You are just using the ISI arab scapegoat for the incompetence of NATO and the afghan governmnet.

Yes, Karzai's govt is corrupt - because corruption is his glue to hold the patchwork together, instead of resorting to fundamentalism.
Pick your poison - or get a divorce.

When Taliban were in power before the US/NATO invasion, what paradise did they bring? What roads did they build? What powerplants did they build? What streetlights did they put up?
Banning radios is progress? Banning paper - even paper bags - in the name of Islam? That sounds more like a tactic to prevent people from writing and communicating. And you want to abuse religion to justify all this?

[khushal]

Again, China was communist, so you're contradicting yourself when you claim that Brzezinski was out to defeat communism in general, instead of Soviets in particular.

You are more stupid than I thought. China was not really communist by action, only in name much like today. Communism in China was defeated by one visit from Nixon back in 1972.

Again, Hekmatyar was Pakistan's stooge, and not really America's. And Pakistan was interested in supporting religious fanatics, even if their fanaticism extended to anti-Americanism.

As per Pakistan's deal with the US during the 80s, only Pak military/ISI would actually arm and train the mujahedin, and America could only supply arms and funds to Pakistan from a distance.

Your stupidity is astonishing and your love for a coward like masood is blind. The US knew where the arms and funds were going and it served their interest and that was creating a headache for the soviets in Afghanistan. If Hitler was in Afghanistan aiming his guns at the Soviets, the amreicans would have supported him because the Soviets were the main threat to Amreican dominence.

China is today much more powerful than Russia, and is the No.2 economy in the world, rapidly catching upto the US.
But Brzezinski is still claiming Moscow is the bigger threat, and that it's better for US to ally with Beijing. Now why would he claim that, if you feel he is so loyal to US interests? It's because he's not loyal to US interests, he's loyal to his own people. Why is that so hard for you to recognize?

you are just spitting out mumbo jumbo mr dumbo. Why would china be a threat, they have been converted to capitalism. Moscow is still struggling with their conversion. Brezinski is loyal to capitalistic interests which is US interests. The more Tajiks I meet, the more uninformed stupidity I witness. The US built China's economy just like they built Japans economy, the former No. 2 economy and just like they built Germany's economy, the former no. 3 economy.
Are you learning yet. to recap, the US has built the No.1 economy, their own, the No. 2 economy, the Chinese, the No. 3 economy, Japanese, the No.4 economy, Germany. The US rebuilt France, No.5 economy. The US bailed out the UK after WW2, No. 6 economy. They built Italy's economy. They are currently building India's economy.
All the top economies of the World have been built by the US. Saudi, UAE, Kuwait, Quatar economies have all been built by the US. Pakistan, Egypt, Jordan, Israel, are all on welfare from the US. If their welfare checks stop, their governments collapse.
Do you know what capitalism is, do you know who started it and the ideas behind it. do you know why the US would built these economies. What interests do they have. Do you have an education or am I talking to some dimwit.

This is another setami-vs-milati argument. The Tajiks all backed Masood and Rabbani. The Uzbeks all backed Dostum. The Hazaras all backed their Wahdatis who got murdered by Talibs.
If you don't like who those communities support, then you might as well say, "I want a divorce. The marriage is dead."

typical Tajik incompetence who cant bring administration to Afghanistan even with foreign help. you are such failures. Not all Tajiks support Masood or Rabani and not all Uzbeks support Dostom and not all pashtuns support Taliban. That is ludicrous.
Most Hazaras were murdered by Masood during the civil war.

But that's because Afghanistan under its current borders is a by-product of British colonial war. You're telling me that Ahmad Shah Durrani was a feudal Tajik? You seem to have allowed the current situation to affect your memory of history.

Ahmed Shah was a pashtun not a Tajik. he is the one who united the pasthun tribes under a confederate structure, ruled over you tajiks, panjabis, Iran to Delhi.

Pakistan a modern nation? Pakistan seems to be dependent upon religious medievalism to hold itself together.

Pakistan is a nation in the modern sense, not a modern nation. there is a difference. Afghanistan is neither a modern nation nor a nation in the modern sense.

Again, this is back to setami-vs-milati argument. Setamis will say Milatis are sellouts, and Milatis will say Setamis are sellouts.

there is a reason why this happens in Afghanistan, go learn about economics and get back to me if you have figured it out.

Yes, Karzai's govt is corrupt - because corruption is his glue to hold the patchwork together, instead of resorting to fundamentalism.
Pick your poison - or get a divorce.

Karzai/Fahim gang are corrupt because they don not care about their nation. They want to create their own little fiefdom in Afghainstan and want to be the pharohs of afghanistan. It wont work, they have to actually care about its people. Divorce only works if it is economically feasible for all parties involved including the neighbors. Poor people dont divorce when they cant afford it. Your going to have accept the status quo.

When Taliban were in power before the US/NATO invasion, what paradise did they bring? What roads did they build? What powerplants did they build? What streetlights did they put up?
Banning radios is progress? Banning paper - even paper bags - in the name of Islam? That sounds more like a tactic to prevent people from writing and communicating. And you want to abuse religion to justify all this?

Does not explain the incompetence of NATO and the afghan governmnet. scapegoating does not work. progress in Afghanistan is people living in peace.

[al-arab]

Listen you piece of **** who sells his *ss to European imperialism. You are the member who called himself ultra nationalist Pashtun who speaks no Pashto nor have ever been to Waziristan. There are hardly any Arabs in waziristan just like Osama was not there. The only Arabs who are there are the ones wanted by NATO and in their home country. They are leading no one but are hiding from persecution.
Show us this evidence that there are thousands of Arabs there leading the rebellion. This is all NATO and PAK Army propaganda to fool the pashtuns that they are being saved from foreigners and all they are killing are foreigners so as to not face a Pashtun backlash. Even the pentagon dismisses your stupidity. Its all indigenous people now like it always has been for thousands of years of resistance to foreigners. this is not different from other rebellions.
You are fooling no one you non pashtun dumbass.

Thank you brother. This is also the truth.

[gomal]

Listen you piece of **** who sells his *ss to European imperialism. You are the member who called himself ultra nationalist Pashtun who speaks no Pashto nor have ever been to Waziristan. There are hardly any Arabs in waziristan just like Osama was not there. The only Arabs who are there are the ones wanted by NATO and in their home country. They are leading no one but are hiding from persecution.
Show us this evidence that there are thousands of Arabs there leading the rebellion. This is all NATO and PAK Army propaganda to fool the pashtuns that they are being saved from foreigners and all they are killing are foreigners so as to not face a Pashtun backlash. Even the pentagon dismisses your stupidity. Its all indigenous people now like it always has been for thousands of years of resistance to foreigners. this is not different from other rebellions.
You are fooling no one you non pashtun dumbass.

Soldat_Amir just spoke to you in Pashto. If you can't understand Wazirvula, its your problem.