American war against Pakistan

[checkmate]

No I never praised the terrorists...So far, your terrorist comrades have killed only Pashtuns---poor khassadars and FC soldiers mostly to deceive the world as if the Ranjt Singhi army is fighting a genuine war against terrorists (clandestinely, it is one with the terrorists)....In Swat, they i.e., the Punjabis army officers have told people even if one crore Pashtuns are killed to save, that isn't a great sacrifice.

Terrorists are the real asset of Punjabis---

You are a liar. You of all know that FATA will be first hit the most since that

the US has been asking Pakistan to have full scale war against Waziristan,

something you also support . Under the false guise of saying that the US

will attack Punjabis only, you are in desperation promoting another lie to

disguise your hatred for the conservative nature of that region, to hold onto your claim of being a "Pashtun nationalist" which is a lie (also which now you prove you are not)

and for Pashtun tribal culture which rejects your secular ideals, always has, and always will. Your secular ideals

have no support at all really.


You are against the conservative culture that dominates this region.

Nothing else. Problem you and others have is that there is no one willing to

die for secularism under the guise of a false and fake nationalism all you want is secularism, but since

the conservative nature of rural Afghan culture rejects it, you resort to

supporting foreign wars, whether it be US or Soviets upon Afghanistan under numerous pretexts, the

biggest lie being for "nationalism." Again never before in history, have I seen so-called nationalists supporting war on their own country. The fact is, I repeat, you are not a

nationalist, never was, and never will be.

Such people are not nationalsts, but just opposed to Islam, but not too

foolish to openly admit it. In either case, your small core of secular people

will never see the light of day simply because there has never been anyone

willing to fight and die for secular causes.

[Toramana]

Bengali-Tiger, there is less likelihood of war between Pakistan and US-NATO although there would be a clandestine war --a proxy war kind of with both sides using religious, ethnic, etc. forces as proxies against each other ---

However, in the event of a full-fledge war---remember my prediction i.e., Punjabi generals and politicians will be the first to surrender (when US-NATO will threaten attacking major Punjabi cities---Punjabis are not ape-minded like Haqqanis, Omars, checkmates, unknownprices, etc.) they will offer US-NATO even their nuclear weapons on the plate. Second, the dynamics of war necessitate that the military capacity of Pakistan is destroyed in the first phase---And I am sure in the full-fledge war(highly unlikely), Rawalpindi cantonments will be the first to be taken out ...

In case of full-fledge war, the US-NATO allies will encourage Baluchis, MQM, etc. to declare independence---so believe me there would be no Pakistan if a full-fledge war takes place.

[emkhan]

Bengali-Tiger, there is less likelihood of war between Pakistan and US-NATO although there would be a clandestine war --a proxy war kind of with both sides using religious, ethnic, etc. forces as proxies against each other ---

However, in the event of a full-fledge war---remember my prediction i.e., Punjabi generals and politicians will be the first to surrender (when US-NATO will threaten attacking major Punjabi cities---Punjabis are not ape-minded like Haqqanis, Omars, checkmates, unknownprices, etc.) they will offer US-NATO even their nuclear weapons on the plate. Second, the dynamics of war necessitate that the military capacity of Pakistan is destroyed in the first phase---And I am sure in the full-fledge war(highly unlikely), Rawalpindi cantonments will be the first to be taken out ...

In case of full-fledge war, the US-NATO allies will encourage Baluchis, MQM, etc. to declare independence---so believe me there would be no Pakistan if a full-fledge war takes place.

"There will be no Pakistan" LOOOOOL
They could not tackle a few taliban in the last 10 years and still crying like a child begging taliban to come to the table then How can they eliminate Pakistan ??? wikh sha wrora wikh sha

[Toramana]

So far the poll is:

83% think there will be an operation of some sort ranging from a limited strike to all out invasion.

58% think there will be a major attack.

If the majority (at the time of writing) are correct, then as I said any major anti-Haqqani operation in FATA may lead to all hell breaking lose, it may lead to the unification of all major FATA tribes to fight the Americans.

No you are absolutely wrong. The pragmatic tribal Maliks will wait and see in whose favour does the balance of power swing and then will switch sides accordingly----Moreover, tribal people have suffered a lot due to terrorism and want to get rid of it...

I think your Muslim empathy and anti-Americanism is influencing your judegement...

[Bengal_Tiger]

Bengali-Tiger, there is less likelihood of war between Pakistan and US-NATO although there would be a clandestine war --a proxy war kind of with both sides using religious, ethnic, etc. forces as proxies---

However, in the event of a full-fledge war---remember my prediction i.e., Punjabi generals and politicians will be the first to surrender (when US-NATO will threaten attacking major Punjabi cities---Punjabis are not ape-minded like Haqqanis, Omars, checkmates, unknownprices, etc.) they will offer US-NATO even their nuclear weapons on the plate. Second, the dynamics of war necessitate that the military capacity of Pakistan is destroyed in the phase---And I am sure in the full-fledge war(highly unlikely), Rawalpindi cantonments will be the first to be taken out ...

In case of full-fledge war, the US-NATO allies will encourage Baluchis, MQM, etc. to declare independence---so believe me there would be no Pakistan if a full-fledge war took place.

1. From your posts I have seen that you understand the nature of Punjabis and "Mohajirs" quite well, and the fundamental difference in character these people east of the Indus have with Pashtuns (We Bengalis are different and are essentially not really Indic or as Indic as Punjabis, Biharis etc, we are racially different and were majority Buddhist before Islam).

Yes, Punjabis, as I know on a personal level and on a political level, speak big and full of bravado, but in reality are not fighters but cowards who will accept opportunistic ways out or limited defeat, over being completely crushed. So yes, the Punjabis would fold.

They (Punjabis/Hindustanis) did this after 9/11 when despite their much vaunted nuclear arsenal obediently and dutifully started bombing Pashtuns and supporting the war against Afghanistan due to a simple call from a US state official.

2. If a major attack takes place in FATA, then it all depends on the decisions of tribal jirga. If Waziris, Mehsuds, Orakzais, Afridis, Mohmands and even Ghilzais and Durranis from Afghanistan unite and decide the Pakistani government is their enemy, Pakistan is finished. We are even speaking of a possible tribal/militant offensive to capture Islamabad....and I am serious.

In other words, this would be, what Selig Harrison has spoken of, a pan-Pashtun all out war of "survival/defence".

Balochis would easily be able to take Balochistan then, but the issue of Pashtun areas of Balochistan needs to be decided.

The MQM can never take Karachi, as it is a multi-ethnic city and the delusional dream of a Hindustani-run state is over (btw Altaf Hussain has condemned the US threat against Pakistan today).

I however just get the gut feeling that none of this will happen this year, if ever. I could be wrong.

[Toramana]

"There will be no Pakistan" LOOOOOL
They could not tackle a few taliban in the last 10 years and still crying like a child begging taliban to come to the table then How can they eliminate Pakistan ??? wikh sha wrora wikh sha

Bacha tha wikh sha...Talebs could do whatever they have done due to safe-heavens in Pakistan ---when their safe heavens are targetted and and they have no where to run away away to sandwitched on one side by US-NATO and the other by India, then they will know chai da saira so pa khaigi....

Remember my prediction---Churi Shujaath, Nawaz Sharif, and other Punjabi elite and your Punjabi mamagaan will be the first to bend on their four to US-NATO---They give a **** about Talebs like you if they fear the annihilation of Punjabi cities...

aow pa tha kai bya Pakai chenjai rawa larzaido----

[Bengal_Tiger]

No you are absolutely wrong. The pragmatic tribal Maliks will wait and see in whose favour does the balance of power swing and then will switch sides accordingly----Moreover, tribal people have suffered a lot due to terrorism and want to get rid of it...

I think your Muslim empathy and anti-Americanism is influencing your judegement...

1. Tribal Maliks, and tribes of FATA are indeed very shrewd and astute, contrary to the delusional image of the simple "Pathan" that some have. So they will wait and see. So far they have decided that to stay within Pakistan is in their interests, not because of "Jeevay, Jeevay Pakistan...dil dil Pakistan", but simply in their eyes it makes more sense. The Islamabad government was giving them money, there was never a war and there were no real problems with Afghanistan as there was nothing but a fictious imaginary border which only existed on library books.

Tribals are fiercely independent and did not even really accept the rule of Ahmad Shah Abdali, nor were they keen on Badshah Khan either.

I stated that the TTP lost support from the tribals as they were brutal and cruel.

The tribals may/may not join in a war against America. The key word here is "may". We will have to see how things go.

2. Muslim empathy is Muslim empathy for Pashtuns who are far more religious and Islamic than convert Hindus of Heera Mandi, who misuse Islam for their own benefit but have a lot of Brahmanism, casteism and Hindu-based racism in their Punjabi culture.

Anti-Americanism is not relevant here, as I am merely carrying out political analysis. The tribals have no sentimental attachment for America which would restrain them from fighting them, they do have sentimental attachment to Islam, Pashtunwali....and yes, even to a far lesser extent, some of them...Pakistan. All factors which would influence what decisions they make. They would think twice about fighting the Pakistan army which has thousands and thousands of Pashtuns in it, but not hesitate to attack American troops if they decided to.

[emkhan]

Bacha tha wikh sha...Talebs could do whatever they have done due to safe-heavens in Pakistan ---when their safe heavens are targetted and and they have no where to run away away to sandwitched on one side by US-NATO and the other by India, then they will know chai da saira so pa khaigi....

Remember my prediction---Churi Shujaath, Nawaz Sharif, and other Punjabi elite and your Punjabi mamagaan will be the first to bend on their four to US-NATO---They give a **** about Talebs like you if they fear the annihilation of Punjabi cities...

aow pa tha kai bya Pakai chenjai rawa larzaido----

ka daa shakal de kha na dai nu daa khula kho sama khwazawa!!!!
america ke nor domra zor nishta che jangona okri... hagha da iraq na ao afghanistan na zaan na shi khlasawaly nu pakistan ta ba sa wayi...ao bya China kho ba warla sarman obaasi... taa ta pata nishta che amrica da China na so so zala mafi ghukhtey da ???
ao kho ka sta pa shan ghaddaraan pake wi nu keday shi che qadam kegdi.
halaka da chaudhry shujaat na wrosto kho sta noom raatlo... khpal noom de pakey hair kro. der clever ye.

[Bengal_Tiger]

PM directs Foreign Minister to forcefully project Pakistan’s case in General Assembly


ISLAMABAD, Sep 25 (APP): The Spokesman of the Prime Minister House on Sunday said Prime Minister Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani twice spoke to Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar and directed her to forcefully project Pakistan’s point of view in the General Assembly on September 27.The Spokesman said that the Prime Minister directed the Foreign Minister to return to Pakistan immediately after delivering her speech in the UN General Assembly in New York.





Hinna Khar to address UN General Assembly on Tuesday

UNITED NATIONS, Sept 25 (APP): Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar will address the United Nations General Assembly on Tuesday.Hinna Khar is leading the Pakistan delegation to the 193-member Assembly’s 66th session, in which more than 120 heads of state/government and other high-level delegates are taking part.She will cover all major issues of concern to Pakistan in the address, her first at the world stage.After delivering her speech, Khar, who went through a tightly laid-out schedule, will leave for Pakistan.






Army chief calls 'special' meeting

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan’s powerful army chief General Ashfaq Kayani met with his top commanders on Sunday in a “special” meeting to discuss the security situation, the military said, as the war of words with the United States escalated. The extraordinary meeting of the corps commanders came against the backdrop of sharp US allegations that Pakistan army’s powerful spy agency supported the Haqqani militant group Washington blames for the recent attack on its embassy and othertargets in Kabul. “The prevailing security situation was discussed,” spokesman Major-General Athar Abbas said. Kayani, who is departing for London to address the International Institute for Strategic Studies and the Royal College of Defence Studies, chaired the meeting.







Gen. Kayani lauded for stance against America


QUETTA, Sept 25 (APP): A meeting of tribal elders of Balochistan held with PPP leader Haji Ashraf Kakar here on Sunday lauded Chief of Army Staff Gen.Ashfaq Pervez Kayani for his bold stance on the US government’s allegations against Pakistan on Afghan issue.Tribal elders including Malik Qayyum, Malik Shams, Malik Salam Noorzai,Nasibullah Otmankhail, Malik Habibullah Bazai and other leaders belonging to tribes including Kakar, Otmankhail, Yasinzai and Bazai attended the meeting.Addressing the meeting, Haji Ashraf Kakar, Malik Shams Kakar, Malik Qayyum and Malik Salam Noorzai pledged that cooperation would be extended to the Pakistan Military for defense of ideological and geographical borders of the
country.

“The US government should not take Pakistan as Iraq and Libya,” they said adding that the US government should keep in view the fate of former Soviet Union.
They said that Pakistan had best armed forces of the world which would foil the nefarious designs of its enemies.
They hailed President Asif Ali Zardari and Prime Minister Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani for calling session of the National Assembly and making contacts with political leaders to review the US government’s statements on the Haqqani group issue.

Source: http://forum.pakistanidefence.com/in...st=40&start=40

[Bengal_Tiger]

Imran Khan Adress In Gujranwala Liaqat Bhaag PTI - 25th September 2011 - Part 2 - YouTube

Imran Khan in fiery nationalistic speech.

[Bengal_Tiger]

In the unlikely event of a FATA invasion, we have have to maintain methods of

1) Maintaining our supply routes.

Role of China would tell us how far we are successful in this. It will need to supply our military and our military needs to keep all the links to China open.

2) Keep attacking rather than merely defending and engaging in guerrilla warfare.

If boots on the grounds situation happens - before resorting to sending in troops to vacate American forces a full on attack on Bagram and sister bases should be done. If the dynamic can be changed where the primary attack comes from the Arabian sea and not Afghanistan that will be half the battle. Unfortunately the other half would still be quite overwhelming but I would take the half.

You can't view this in terms of military win or loss. The biggest win would be our freedom. If cutting the chord with the US means to going to war with them then so be it. It will literally be the first day of the rest of your life!

Post 164, http://www.defence.pk/forums/u-s-for...kistan-11.html

Ppl should watch diplomatic movements in coming days. I mean if senior US officials visit russia, china, ksa, india & discuss abt Pakistan. Then I think "boot on ground situation will not be far.
If preperations on war begins then I think Russia will definitely asked for it's share.
To keep china out of it... India will anondon vietnam... Ground forces will move to kashmir & akhnoor airbase.
All such things to happen require atleast 6-7 months preps. Even if limited war breKout then still it will be of low intensity in the beginning. As Sir santro said... Major thrust will come from India later on

Indian poster, 175

To enemies of Pakistan we have nothing to lose just bring it on...............

Post 180

It's a crucial time for Pakistani policy framers and i am sure that Chinese would be in on the act. Any show of defiance & resilience at present will mold Pakistan's foreign policy into more of an independent foreign policy (with minimal or no influence of the Americans) in times to come.
Now is the time to break away from the Americans clutches, It's either now or never.

Post 181

[Bengal_Tiger]

Imran 'Rhetoric' Khan lashes out at Zardari, US...again

Published: September 25, 2011


Khan said the US was blaming Pakistan for its failure in Afghanistan. Govt should reject all US aid. PHOTO: AFP/FILE

GUJRANWALA: PTI chairman Imran Khan reiterated on Sunday that the country needed a brave leader, and the War on Terror was benefiting the government instead of the people.
Addressing a rally in Gujranwala, Khan said that the War on Terror had cost Pakistan $70 billion and resulted in the loss of over 35,000 lives. He said the US was blaming Pakistan for their own failure in Afghanistan.
Referring to President Asif Ali Zardari, Khan said that the nation needed strong leadership unlike the present one that is not standing up to the US, despite all their allegations in recent times.
Khan said the government should reject US aid.
He said that if his party came into power, they would first reject US aid and fight this war on their terms. He added that it was this aid that was giving the miiltants the perception that we were fighting the US War on Terror and hence attacked us.
Speaking on the floods, he said that the president went to flood hit areas for a ‘photo opportunity’ and then disappeared.
Khan said that while the president was busy travelling the world and “amassing wealth”, it was the army that was fighting the insurgency in the tribal areas, controlling the situation in Balochistan, and the rangers who were conducting operations in Karachi.
On Waziristan, he urged the nation to unite against any possible US operation in the area. The US has been pressuring Pakistan to conduct an operation in North Waziristan to clear it of militant hideouts.
Khan said that come election year the people should not vote for a “coward leader”, as Pakistan was a dignified nation.
Khan said he would make an important announcement in the coming days and give the nation good news soon

http://tribune.com.pk/story/260060/r...dari-us-again/

[Bengal_Tiger]

'US at war with Pakistan'


Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:53PM



Wajahat Khan, a journalism fellow at Harvard Kennedy School, says “as far as international law is concerned, frankly, this country (Pakistan) has been at a war with the United States since 2004, which is when the first time drone attacks were used [against Pakistan].”

U.S. drone attacks were “a breach of international law on Pakistan's sovereignty,” Khan said, adding “when you breach a country's sovereignty like that, you essentially kind of declare war on it.”

Speaking to Press TV's U.S. Desk on Saturday, he also said the Afghanistan-Pakistan war now has changed to the “Pak-Af” war because “Pakistan was a partial target in this large Afghanistan war,” which he described “the final chapter in this so-called war on terror crisis.”

He went on to say that “Pakistan is really counting, really hard, on political infighting in the U.S. which is obviously democracy, it is counting on the weak Obama White House getting flustered and blasted by a strong U.S. congress, hostile U.S. congress, and a bad U.S. economy to really force the American military to speed up the pace of this withdrawal [from Afghanistan].”


http://www.presstv.ir/usdetail/200995.html

[Toramana]

ka daa shakal de kha na dai nu daa khula kho sama khwazawa!!!!
america ke nor domra zor nishta che jangona okri... hagha da iraq na ao afghanistan na zaan na shi khlasawaly nu pakistan ta ba sa wayi...ao bya China kho ba warla sarman obaasi... taa ta pata nishta che amrica da China na so so zala mafi ghukhtey da ???
ao kho ka sta pa shan ghaddaraan pake wi nu keday shi che qadam kegdi.
halaka da chaudhry shujaat na wrosto kho sta noom raatlo... khpal noom de pakey hair kro. der clever ye.

aow tha kho khpal nazriyathi plar Hazrath Ossama tha pa shakal kai thlalai yai, dair noorani makh dai dai, sommra dwa gazza gira dai da, ka saloor, sanga da chaili style da aow ka da Allah Din...?

Stha pa shan da Punjabyano samsokai kho wayi chai gani mung da Islam aow da watan dair khidmath kawo, kho pa haqiqath kai da Punjabyano da toilet paper na mo zyaath hasiyath nishtha, laka da shadogano pa shan mo gadai, aow khpal mafadath darbandai akhli, aow chai kala yai darna hagha pora shi, no bya darbandai chruth na kharabai,...

[Bengal_Tiger]

Pakistan's generals meet as relations with US hit new low

Pakistani military join scramble to tackle crisis as tensions with US escalate, raising likelihood of more drone strikes

• • reddit this

• Declan Walsh in Islamabad
• guardian.co.uk, Sunday 25 September 2011 20.44 BST
• Article history

Protesters burn a mock US flag during a protest in Hyderabad, Pakistan. Photograph: Nadeem Khawer/EPA

Pakistan's army chief has gathered his generals to discuss the escalating war of words with the US over the Haqqani insurgent network amid a deep sense of foreboding across the country.
The military refused to comment on the meeting chaired by General Ashfaq Kayani other than to say it was to discuss the "prevailing security situation". Media reports said the generals considered retaliatory action in the event of US military strikes in the northwestern tribal belt.
Meanwhile the prime minister, Yousaf Raza Gilani, recalled his foreign minister Hina Rabbani Khar, who has strongly defended the military, from the United Nations in New York.
The political and military scrambling reflected the gravity of a crisis triggered by a 20-hour Haqqani assault on the US embassy in Kabul on 13 September, and subsequent US allegations that Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency was behind the attack.
Last week the outgoing US military chief, Admiral Mike Mullen, described the Haqqani network as a "veritable arm" of the ISI that were being used to fight a "proxy war" in Afghanistan.
The bare-knuckles criticism of Pakistan's military, unprecedented since 2001, has plunged already troubled relations to a new low and triggered a deep sense of foreboding in Pakistan about what is coming next.
US actions will also be driven by domestic political pressure. In a taste of rising impatience with Pakistan, one senior Republican said the US was "going to have to put all options on the table, including defending our troops".
"We need to put Pakistan on notice," Senator Lindsey Graham, a member of the armed services committee, told Fox News.
Analysts say the US will have to take action, but there is little indication what it will be. "They have to do something; they can't leave it hanging like this," said regional analyst Michael Semple.
Speculation is rife. One option would be air strikes or a special forces raid into the Haqqani safehaven of North Waziristan in the tribal belt. But most analysts believe such a scenario is unlikely, at least for now, given the risks of triggering upheaval that could destabilise the Pakistani government, and even lead to a military takeover.
Instead there are suggestions that the US could increase the tempo of CIA-directed drone strikes against the Haqqanis, including on populated urban areas that the CIA has previously avoided.
One likely target would be Miran Shah, the main town in North Waziristan, where US officials complain the Haqqani leadership lives in close proximity to a major Pakistani base.
Pakistan's military admits it has contacts with the Haqqanis but insists they are for the purposes of gathering intelligence, not for priming attacks on US forces in Afghanistan.
"Any intelligence agency would like to maintain contact with whatever opposition group, whatever terrorist organisation … for some positive outcome," military spokesman Major General Athar Abbas told CNN.
President Asif Ali Zardari's government, meanwhile, finds itself hamstrung by a foreign policy it does not control. Paradoxically, this lack of power could insulate the civilians from a military takeover, said defence analyst Dr Hasan Askari-Rizvi.
"I don't think there will be a coup. The civilian government doesn't get in the military's way, so they have no need to knock them out," he said.
Meanwhile other tensions are bubbling along the northeastern part of the Afghan border, away from Waziristan. The Afghan defence ministry has accused Pakistan of firing over 300 artillery shells and rockets into Kunar and Nuristan provinces since Wednesday.
Pakistan says that Pakistani Taliban militants are using the same Afghan territory – recently vacated by US forces - to mount raids into Pakistan.
Behind the angry rhetoric between the US and Pakistan, there is a strong sense that both sides need each other – at least for now. Amid the firestorm of allegations a senior US officer, General James Mattis, paid General Kayani a visit on Saturday.
Prime minister Gilani perhaps put it most succinctly: "They can't live with us. They can't live without us."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...?newsfeed=true