Pakistan discussion

[Max]

lol na yara, i dont have that much gray matter to debate on something like this..I gave you guys some basic facts about the interactions between Israel and Pakistan.

Ive been Pakistan and i hear almost every Imam make special dua for palestinians at the end of the jummah, and i make dua for them too

And the stuff Nick posted, its just his own views, he can keep em.. BLS jaana had some good points about pashtun development, i dont think he is that interested in Pak and Israel nor are pakistanis or the jews lol

[Niazi]

first of all Pakistan isn't Islamic country UK is moe Islamic then Pakistan ,Pakistan was created becouse of two Gujraties rivalary,Pakistan army killed more Muslim of Pakistan citizan then Israel didn't killed so much Muslim in her entire existence.

[Palwasha]

^Lol, the UK definitely isn't more Islamic. I'd say you can practice your Islam more freely and properly here though.

Ive been Pakistan and i hear almost every Imam make special dua for palestinians at the end of the jummah, and i make dua for them too

Even here in Britain the Pakistani's were hand in hand with the Arabs. Not only with the protesting, but with the fundraising also.

Pakistan has it's problems and issues, but nothing compares to Israel.

[Palwasha]

The bribery that exists in pakistan alone puts it in competition with Israel.

Unfortunately bribery is everywhere, even in Britain (and yes involving politicians also).

I still stand by what I say, forget Pakistan or whatever nation it is, you simply can't compare to Israel.

[Max]

well despite all its shortcomings I can give you one thing that alone puts Pakistan in my good books

Mecca Madina are safe from enemy nukes today cuz of Pakistan

But i will also mention that Pakistan along with every other muslim nation, we also had a role to play to help palestinians, our people are willing but the government are idiots fundoos.

Inshallah time will come when we will all rise to the occassion

[Niazi]

well despite all its shortcomings I can give you one thing that alone puts Pakistan in my good books

Mecca Madina are safe from enemy nukes today cuz of Pakistan

Yeh right when the crunch time come as always pak Army will do the runner they been defeated 3time by Indian lost Kashmir to Indian but yeh they are very good at killing of thier own inoucent civilian raping 200000 Bangali women yeh right Muslim army.

But i will also mention that Pakistan along with every other muslim nation, we also had a role to play to help palestinians, our people are willing but the government are idiots fundoos.

Inshallah time will come when we will all rise to the occassion

[Nick]

well despite all its shortcomings I can give you one thing that alone puts Pakistan in my good books

Mecca Madina are safe from enemy nukes today cuz of Pakistan

But i will also mention that Pakistan along with every other muslim nation, we also had a role to play to help palestinians, our people are willing but the government are idiots fundoos.

Inshallah time will come when we will all rise to the occassion

Max you should agree that your Hallucinatory state of Pakistan being perfect is only shared amongst those who truly believes in its creation Right? which is why I asked you or any of its believers one question Why was Pakistan created. After answering this question we shell continue with this discussion. Otherwise leave it at this.

BTW I was just reading some of the viewers points, which obviously you have ignored. But the points were really made was regarding Gov vs People. However in your first post you tried to convince me that you were to be a "Pashtun". I was not surprised because almost every-Pakistani in the cyber-world claims to have some sort of "Pathani" connection, just to make your pro-pak*i points. Now I must say although your opinion matters more to me, then your ethnicity. When it comes to Pakistan we want to talk to Punjabis who consider themselves "Muslims" and this is where I would admire a Punjabi more tthen someone trying to post as loser "Pashtuns" in the meantime everything Pakistan does and says is against "Pashtuns".

See Max you got yourself trapped by claiming to be from Afghan race, and yet supporting Pakistan. Which is why I suggest Pakistanis not to make false claims of being Pashtun just so that they can represent Pashtuns.

You can never be a Pashtun, because a Pashtun mindset is far different from your average Pakistanis who believe in the state of Pakistan. Once you believe in Pakistan you cannot be a Pashtuns. This is as clear as I could get. Now I am not speaking to represent one or two persons who in the face of majority are considered "hypocrites" or "backstabbers" but rather majority. Feel free to mention your forefather's name in order to convince me, but its not gonna help, cause we have seen alot of it.

I claimed Israel=Pakistan, and here you bring-up naive arguments and presented me with mysterious military conflicts between Israel and Pakistan, and your claims of Pakistan being Protectors of Mecca. God forbids but some-one saying in my face will really be hurt, because the protection of House of God is only in the hands of Allah, and he has always been protecting it. Now don't tell me America is scared of Pakistan which is why they won't attack Mecca. Truly Ghaffar Khan was right Humanity is respected by Kufars better then comparing to Pakistan. However if he would of said Humanity is respected better by Kufars then Muslim, I totally would of said Nahlath to him, but may peace be upon him, he knew his words. Pakistan does not represent Muslims. The END./

[MazloomyarMaseed]

we dont need sources to prove pakistan is like israel
just ask people in waziristan and they will tell you what pakistan truely is like.

[Michin Khel]

You yourself has answered your question, "a land clean of hindus". To make it more refine, you can say that purpose of pak-istan creation was independent country for indian muslims out of fear of hindu dominance where they can practice their faith freely. Hindu-muslim conflicts or more precisely anti-muslim riots make the weak muslims of india to dream of a country where they are not killed in masses for eating cow meat. It was clear to Muslims that in United india they will be overwhelmed by magority hindus according to demoratic system and their rights will always ignored. A fear that in-numerable hindus will trample them, provoke idea of pakistan in hindi muslims.

dear nick the answer for your question "why pakistan was created?" lies in my above post.

[Nick]

dear nick the answer for your question "why pakistan was created?" lies in my above post.

Dear Luffy With all respect, as a Muslim, I fully understand your point, by All means We the Muslims in general are in support of what you stated above. This is a well known fact, but my concern was not so much of its theory but rather the political understanding of this newly state of Muslims. I am referring to the conflict in which my blood brothers suffer.

The war against Pashtuns, if you tell me Pashtuns are not Muslim, I may shut-up or don't respond, maybe fight from humanity point of view, but if you are a muslim think about it, what is the difference between Palestinians and Pashtuns. I know what you are going to say "Pakis6tan is muslim country and pakistani wants this and that, terrorist this, and terrorism that". You are going to bring every excuse to defend your beloved country Pakistan against comparing to openly kufari state of Israel, however if you are truly a muslim you will know deep in your heart that his is an State vs Pashtun war in which you claim Pashtuns don't corporate.

Again you would understand that in this war the people who suffer don't accept Pakistan and that's same with Palestinians, the ideology behind the cause of the conflict is all same and in this war no other race suffers other than Afghans. Once I was speaking to a mahajur from Karachi who at first supporter of MQM dissed Gov, which things got rough he reminded me, Pakistan and India, he was to prefer Pakistan, a 100 times better than choosing hindu Nation. When things boil between Pakistanis themselves they do diss the Government, Mahajur vs Sindhi and Sindhi vs Punjabi, but Pashtun vs Pakistan, is totally a different issue in which maybe shocking for an Average Pakistani who knows nothing of politics and history and chants Pakistan Zendabad.

We all know this, the topic is not so simple as that, and to answer "Why Pakistan was created" and how it maintains its promise is not an easy answer either. In this topic we are looking at Pakistan's general picture to where Pakistan stands today from a Muslim and from a Pashtun/Afghan point of view not from a Pakistani point of view. We all know how lovely Pakistan is from a Pakistani point of view why not know how ugly Pakistan is from a Pashtun point of view.
I hope you understand to where I am going.

I myself would of screamed a 1000 times "Pakistan Zendabad", if it wasn't in the cost of our blood brothers and our land, or our muslim brothers. We all say yes Hindus and muslims can sit in the same room. But again Just like Israel, unfortunately this Pakistan wants to stand firm by the cost of Muslim blood. This is what I want you to think about, and please don't give me this "Al-qaeda issue" we as Muslims know this is all fake, and you as a Pakistan should know no that Pashtun has ever accepted Pakistan, and we all know Pakistan wants, a firm control over the land which these people never accepted. Now you can go ahead and bring up the issue of referendum or votes, and stats, and this, and that from some Pak*i source, but again we as Afghans and Muslims reject these claims after all that's what Israelis do, push and push into the media, Newspapers, book and encyclopedias, in any form of whatsoever to convince the Muslims, and the world in general the land under its control will always be theirs forever.

As they say "Welcome to the World of Politics and blood shed" The issue of Pakistan is no longer Hindu vs Muslim because today as Stats of Pakistan claims 99% of its population are Muslim, So what's the issue?

[MazloomyarMaseed]

If Pakistan was created for Muslims, then why is the founders of the Pakistan Army british and why didnt jinnah adopt Islamic law instead of a Westernied Secular laws? its not rocket sceicen, and if Pakistan was for muslims, then why did it oppress the bengalis?

[pekhawar]

Dear Luffy With all respect, as a Muslim, I fully understand your point, my All means We the Muslims in general are in support of what you stated above. This is a well known fact, but my concern was not so much of its theory but rather the political understanding of this newly state of Muslims. I am referring to the conflict in which my blood brothers suffer. The war against Pashtuns, if you tell me Pashtuns are not Muslim, I may shut-up or don't respond, maybe fight from humanity point of view but this is an internal Muslim conflict in which no other race other then Afghans suffer. Once I was speaking to a mahajur from Karachi who at first supporter of MQM dissed Pakistan, which things got rough he reminded me, Pakistan and India, he was to prefer Pakistan, a 100 times better than choosing hindu Nation.

We all know this, the topic is not so simple as that, a general picture to where Pakistan stands today from a Muslim and from a Pashtun/Afghan point of view not from a Pakistani point of view. We all know how lovely Pakistan is from a Pakistani point of view.
I hope you understand to where I am going.

I myself would of screamed a 1000 times Pakistan Zendabad, if it wasn't in the cost of our blood brothers and our land. But again Just like Israel, unfortunately this Pakistan wants to stand firm by the cost of Muslim blood. This is what I want you to think about, please don't give me this "Al-qaeda issue" we as Muslims know this is all fake, and you as Pakistan should know no Pashtun has ever accepted Pakistan, and we all know Pakistan wants, a firm control over the land which these people never accepted. Now you can go ahead and bring up the issue of referendum or votes and stats and this and that from some Pak*i source, but again we as Afghans and Muslims reject these claims after all that's what Israelis do push and push into the media, Newspapers, book and encyclopedias, in any form of whatsoever to convince the Muslims, and the world in general the land under its control will always be theirs forever.
As they say "Welcome to the World of Politics and blood shed"

I agree.


Pakistan has been nothing but an international migraine like an American once said.


I am born in Pakistani, but I am scared to tell people I am Pakistani.


When I am tell them I am Afghan they have sympathy and love for me.

The minute I say I am Pakistani they look at me as if I am a terrorist.


We have attempted to blow up New York several times, London bombins,Mumbai bombings. All darn Pakistanis, then patriotic Pakistanis get mad on why we hate Pakistan.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

I agree.


Pakistan has been nothing but an international migraine like an American once said.


I am born in Pakistani, but I am scared to tell people I am Pakistani.


When I am tell them I am Afghan they have sympathy and love for me.

The minute I say I am Pakistani they look at me as if I am a terrorist.


We have attempted to blow up New York several times, London bombins,Mumbai bombings. All darn Pakistanis, then patriotic Pakistanis get mad on why we hate Pakistan.

There is only one option. Radical change and a good armed struggle, how can we face Pakistan without fighting through war, look at the bengalis, they tried the peaceful way and they were raped, tortured and murdered.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

true, but we got played by both sides..In Afghanistan they couldnt handle their internal affairs so they invited Russia to beat up Pashtuns and "set those tribals" straight..pakistan seeing our brotherhood connection with them armed us and sent us in..And i think today whats happening in Pakistan is our own undoing

But looking back, what other choices did Pakistan have ? India Russia and the Northerners were upto their necks killing off our people..The only thing we could do was help our pashtun brothers fight.

Anyways wrora i think we have hijacked his thread lol, lets rag on the Jews :D

I think you have confused history here. Actually the armed fighting did not start as you had written it, but rather the US had armed and started training mujahideen before any Soviets had set foot in there. Second of all, there is no logic that you can arm people in another country due to 'brotherhood'. By that logic, I guess people should arm baloch and help them as they are being mistreated.

Second of all the 90s was far more complex than what you wrote. Please don't simplify such things.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

BLS how do you know so much?

Manana wrora, but I am still learning. :-)