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  • #91
    A truly amazing mind, this M K Bhadrakumar. The Indians would be well served to listen to his logic. He is the Michael Scheuer of the East no doubt. I have long admired men who could see through their enemy's eyes, and Dr. Bhadrakumar is one of these folks. Another was the great Robert E Lee. This is an older article, but well worth the read. I have high lited important points. This individual is neither Muslim, fundamentalist, or Pakistani connected in any way. He is a former high ranking Indian diplomat. He pretty much mirrors what Brother Ghaznavi has been saying and did say on Canadian TV. It appears that Scheuer supports Bhadrakumar's informed and honest narrative:

    http://the-diplomat.com/2010/08/30/t...ar-flashpoint/



    India caught in the Taliban myth
    By M K Bhadrakumar

    The horrendous terrorist attack on the Indian Embassy in Kabul on Monday has no precedents. Never has the mission there been attacked in this fashion - not even during the darkest periods of the civil war in the 1980s and 1990. Nor has any other diplomatic mission in Kabul been so targeted in the current phase of the civil war that began with the United States invasion in 2001.

    The suicide attack claimed the lives of 41 people, with more than 140 injured. Among the dead were Indian Defense Attache Brigadier R D Mehta, diplomat Venkateswara Rao and two Indian paramilitary guards.

    Unsurprisingly, Indian opinion makers have been swift in depicting the terrorist act as a moral evil, which it probably is. All the same, it is necessary to draw a line while presenting what happened as a kind of morality play of good versus evil. The danger is when the narrative begins depicting a moral universe where we are hated solely on account of our altruistic motives and intrinsic goodness.

    Whereas, the reality is that we live in savage times where realpolitik and not morality often enough happens to be the guiding force inciting our monstrous enemies. A need arises, therefore, to take a more honest look at any hidden sewers that may exist. Such an exercise cannot and should not in any way detract from the total condemnation that the terrorists deserve. But it will serve an important purpose in so far as we do not fall into a false sense of innocence.

    Even the death of a sparrow is a tragedy. Too many Indian lives are being lost in Afghanistan. The death of a brigadier, certainly, is a huge loss to India's armed forces. It is about time to ask questions why this is happening. First and foremost, do we comprehend the complexities of the Afghan situation?

    The primary responsibility for this task lies with the Indian mission in Kabul, which should assess the situation correctly and report to Delhi. The Ministry of External Affairs will be the best judge to decide whether there have been any lacunae in putting in place the underpinnings of India's Afghan policy. After all, a distinct pattern is emerging in the recent past. Is it mere coincidence?

    Each time an Indian life was lost, top officials in Delhi reiterated their resolve not to be deterred by terrorists. A high-level meeting of officials ensued to take stock of the security of Indian personnel in Afghanistan. Apart from diplomatic and other staff, several thousand Indians are involved in reconstruction work in the country.

    We then moved on. But does that approach suffice? Is anyone listening out there in the Hindu Kush? Isn't a comprehensive re-look of policy warranted? Something has gone very wrong somewhere. The government owes an explanation.

    One thing is clear. The Taliban are a highly motivated movement. They are not in the business of exhibitionism. Their actions are invariably pinpointed, conveying some distinguishable political message or the other. This has been so all along during the past decade. Anyone who interacted with the Taliban would agree.

    Even on the eve of the US invasion of Afghanistan in 2001, they were prepared to deal, but by then the Gorge W Bush administration was bent on the military path. In the present case of India's embassy, the terrorist attack was carefully targeted. Equally, its timing must also bear scrutiny. The overall fragility of the security situation or the prevailing climate of violence in Afghanistan alone cannot account for it. India is not part of the tens of thousands of coalition forces stationed in Afghanistan. But why is India being singled out? After all, Iran has been no less an "enemy" for the Taliban or al-Qaeda - or Russia and Uzbekistan for that matter.

    The first point is that the Taliban have once again chosen to target Indian interests, which are located on Afghan soil. They haven't stretched their long arm to act on Indian soil. Even though India's army chief recently speculated that Kashmiri militants could have tie-ups with the Taliban or al-Qaeda, such a link seems highly improbable. (Why there should have been such a speculative statement at all on a sensitive issue at such a responsible level, we do not know). The Taliban message is that they have a score to settle with India's Afghan policy; that it is best settled on Afghan soil; and that they do not have any hostility toward India as such.

    Two, the Taliban have ratcheted up the level of their attacks on Indian interests. Targeting the Indian chancery makes it a very serious message. It is unclear whether the Indian defense attache was specifically the target. Conceivably, he was. If so, the timing of the attack is relevant. India has sharply stepped up its military-to-military cooperation with Afghanistan. Media reports indicate that India is training Afghan military personnel and possibly supplying military hardware to the Afghan armed forces. The Indian authorities have not cared to deny these reports.

    Needless to say, the Taliban would be keeping a close tab. The Taliban have infiltrated Afghan security agencies and would know the nature of the India-Afghanistan military cooperation. In any case, in the Kabul bazaar, nothing remains secret for long. The Taliban seem to have sized up that the Afghan-Indian "mil-to-mil" cooperation is assuming a cutting edge, and the resent it, seeing it as unwarranted Indian interference in their country's internal affairs.

    Arguably, India's cooperation is within legitimate parameters. Delhi is dealing with the duly elected Afghan government of President Hamid Karzai, which enjoys international legitimacy. But such things are never quite that simple in war zones. It took all the persuasiveness on the part of India's envoys to get the mujahideen to accept, with the benefit of hindsight, that India's erstwhile ties with president Mohammad Najibullah's regime in the 1980s were history and were not directed against the mujahideen but merely signified government-to-government relations, which were usual.

    Again, as India learned at enormous cost, in the ultimate analysis, it became completely irrelevant that the Indian Peace Keeping Force saga in the mid-1980s in Sri Lanka began at the insistence of the established government in Colombo under the leadership at the highest level. The dividing line between the judicious and injudicious becomes thin when an outsider becomes involved in a fratricidal strife.

    In this particular case, there is an added factor. The Afghan army has pronounced ethnic fault lines. Ethnic Tajiks account for close to 70% of the officer corps of the army. So, when India trains Afghan army officers in its military academies to fight the Taliban - who are a predominantly Pashtun movement - India is needlessly stepping into a political minefield of explosive sensitivity. Either India does not comprehend these vicious undercurrents in Afghan politics or it chooses to deliberately overlook them. In any case, it demands some serious explanation.

    Three, the United Progressive Alliance government in Delhi has incrementally harmonized its Afghan policy with the US's "war on terror". This is most unfortunate. India ought to keep a safe distance from the Bush administration's war against militant Islam. Besides, the US has complicated motives behind its intervention in Afghanistan - its geostrategy toward Russia and Central Asia, its agenda of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization's expansion as a global political organization, its crusade against "Islamofascism", etc.

    Investigative journalist Seymour Hersh recently revealed in the New Yorker magazine what was an open secret - Washington has been using Afghanistan as a base for training and equipping terrorists and planning and executing subversive activities directed against Iran with a view to speeding up "regime change" in that country.

    India does not share these diabolical US policy objectives and hare-brained dogmas. But unfortunately, influential sections within the India security community have labored under the notion that acquiring a sort of frontline status in the US's "war on terror" in Afghanistan would have tangential gains with regard to Pakistan. The temptation to harmonize with the US is all the greater when we see that US-Pakistan security cooperation has come under strain on account of Islamabad's growing resistance to the American attempt to shift the locus of the war into the Afghanistan-Pakistan border and the tribal areas within Pakistan that border Afghanistan.

    Again, some others in India's strategic community hold a belief that it is time India began to flex its muscles in its region. Indeed, US think-tankers routinely encourage their counterparts to believe that India is far too shy and reticent for a serious regional power in the exercise of its muscle power.

    At any rate, there is a widespread perception in the international community - including former US officials who held responsible positions and even British statesmen - that Afghanistan is the theater of a proxy war between Pakistan and India. But we can certainly do without such a proxy war. There are five good reasons for saying so.

    First, it is tragic, immoral and contemptible if India indeed is cynical enough to overlook the suffering that it would be inflicting on the friendly Afghan people - who barely eke out a living as it is - by making them pawns in India's "low intensity" wars with Pakistan. Second, such a proxy war is contrary to India's broader regional policy, which is to make Pakistan a stakeholder in friendly relations with India. Third, India would be annoying or alienating the Pakistani military, which is a crucial segment of the Pakistani establishment. Fourth, it undercuts the climate of trust and confidence, which is gathering slowly but steadily in the overall relationship with Pakistan.

    Finally, it is plain unrealistic to overlook Pakistan's legitimate interests in Afghanistan. It would be as unrealistic as to expect that India would sit back and take with equanimity if it perceived creeping Pakistani influence in the Maldives, Sri Lanka, Nepal or Bhutan. (Three top Indian officials recently visited Colombo to make precisely such a point about trends toward Sri Lanka's expansion of ties with China and Pakistan.)

    Call it "sphere of influence", call it the "Monroe Doctrine" [1], but there are geopolitical realities that cannot be overlooked. Afghanistan poses fundamental challenges to Pakistan's territorial integrity and sovereignty. Therefore, Pakistan is highly sensitive about Afghanistan's external relations. It is inconceivable that Pakistan would take in its stride any Indian activities in Afghanistan, which it perceives as threatening its security interests. (Sophistries apart, Delhi's calculated political decision to maintain consulates in Jalalabad, Kandahar, Herat and Mazar-i-Sharif is a case in point.) A futile cycle of tit-for-tat will ensue
    whereby India and Pakistan would end up bleeding each other.

    From the Indian perspective at least, its national priorities at the present crucial juncture of economic growth and development should be very obvious. It can do without mindless distractions and extravaganzas. It needs a peaceful external environment. China's fascinating example of national priorities is in front of India - almost mocking it.

    The biggest danger is that in the present climate of euphoria over India's so-called strategic partnership with the US, Washington may egg Delhi on to a "proactive" role in Afghanistan. Indeed, this may be happening already to some extent. India (and China) has been approached by the Bush administration to send troops to Afghanistan. Understandably, with the Afghan war posing such a profound dilemma to the US, Washington would be immensely pleased if India, with its surplus manpower, geared up for a bit of load-sharing in the "war on terror".

    Nothing would be more foolhardy on India's part than to be drawn into the US stratagem. There cannot be any two opinions that when the chips are down, the US would know that Pakistan is a fundamentally more valuable ally in Afghanistan than India ever could aspire to be. Simply put, geography favors Pakistan, and geography delimits a direct Indian role in Afghanistan.

    India can only end up as a doormat for US regional policy. However, there are disturbing signs that sections of the Indian strategic community, egged on by the armchair cheerleaders in its media, are raring to go for a bit of action in the great game. Indeed, the great game in the Hindu Kush is a heady, exhilarating game. But it is also a high-risk one. It can even end up tragically, which was what happened to imperial Britain and the Soviet Union - and quite probably will happen to the US.

    It is understandable if India were to retaliate against the Taliban for its hostile activities towards India. But that is not the case here. The case is more of the powerful pro-American lobby in India's security community hoping against hope that somehow or the other a justification could be found for a raison d'etre for India to get involved in the Afghan war. The easy route is to cast the Taliban as inimical to India's national security.

    Part of the problem is also India's lack of understanding about the phenomenon of political Islam and its manifestations in its neighborhood. Carnegie scholar and author of Journey of the Jihadist: Inside Muslim Militancy, Fawaz A Gerges, has tackled the intellectual challenge of disentangling myth from the reality of Islamism. He came up with some facts to consider: a) Islamism is highly complex and diverse; the Muslim Brotherhood and its affiliates which form the overwhelming majority (over 90%) of religiously political groups embrace democratic principles and oppose violence; b) Mainstream Islamists have become unwitting harbingers of democratic transformation in Muslim societies, learning to make compromises and even rethink some of their absolute positions; c) Mainstream militants serve as a counterweight to ultra-militants like al-Qaeda; d) Islamists, like their secular counterparts, are deeply divided among themselves and the intensity of the fault lines are very real.

    Interestingly, Gerges had this to say about the Taliban: "There is nothing uniquely 'Islamic' about their internal governing style except the rhetoric and the symbolism. They have not offered up an original model of Islamic governance." Thus, once in power in the late 1990s, the Taliban did face a Herculean task of coping with political reality. If not for their cynical manipulation in the 1990s by outsiders - the US, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia - the Taliban would not have been driven into the welcoming arms of al-Qaeda.

    Much of the currently perceived threat to regional stability from the Taliban is a dark illusion that has been exaggerated and distorted. But then India became trapped by a fear and adversarial perceptions had crystallized by the late 1990s. India promptly, unconditionally, surrendered the right to question the myth about the Taliban. Indeed, Taliban functionaries kept conveying to India directly and through intermediaries that they didn't harbor ill will toward India to provoke such vehement Indian support for the anti-Taliban Northern Alliance.
    Maybe India overreacted; maybe the searing pain of the blood-letting in Jammu and Kashmir in the late 1980s and early 1990s percolated into India's thinking; maybe the specter of Islamic extremism genuinely haunted the country; maybe Pakistan's hostile manner prompted India to retaliate; maybe the hijack of the Indian Airlines aircraft to Kandahar in Afghanistan in 1999 and the humiliation that followed was too much to accept; maybe the destruction of the famed Bamyan statues in Afghanistan in 2001 was already an affront to India's civilization. Certainly, one thing led to another.

    But 2001 was a cut-off point. India should have stopped in its tracks and reassessed. The Bonn conference in the winter of 2001 following the invasion of Afghanistan was the occasion for an ancient country like India to have pointed out to the world community that there could be no durable peace unless the vanquished and the defeated party was also brought into the settlement. The Europeans would have understood. But India's political leadership let the country down. Instead, India revived belief in its role to battle evil. On the other hand, if India had plodded through, the myth might have easily fallen away. And that might have offered a permanent solution to India's Taliban problem.

    Ambassador M K Bhadrakumar was a career diplomat in the Indian Foreign Service. His assignments included the Soviet Union, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Germany, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Kuwait and Turkey.
    "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

    Comment


    • #92
      BarakzaiAbdali,
      What are your thoughts about Ron Paul?
      Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

      A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

      For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


      The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

      -Ferishta, 1560–1620

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Admin Khan View Post
        BarakzaiAbdali,
        What are your thoughts about Ron Paul?
        Top notch guy. I voted him for him in the republican primaries. I like his son, but I respect him a whole lot more. I think Dr. Paul is truly a gem. He still practices medicine and does deliveries and surgical resections from time to time. He isnt one of those folks who couldnt make it in medicine or just got sick of it like Howard Dean.

        He has, as far as I am concerned, the best view on American foreign policy. He is well read and erudite. His harkening back to the founders and his constitutionalism is what makes him unique in this ravenous wolf congress beholden to so many interests.
        "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

        Comment


        • #94
          b.a. what are your thoughts on donald trump, said to be thrown into the mix to take votes away from ron paul? saw him speaking about the 'spoils of war' and how america should just take iraqs and other muslim countries oil.
          one would think the guy could afford better hair.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by BarakzaiAbdali View Post
            A truly amazing mind, this M K Bhadrakumar. The Indians would be well served to listen to his logic. He is the Michael Scheuer of the East no doubt. I have long admired men who could see through their enemy's eyes, and Dr. Bhadrakumar is one of these folks. Another was the great Robert E Lee. This is an older article, but well worth the read. I have high lited important points. This individual is neither Muslim, fundamentalist, or Pakistani connected in any way. He is a former high ranking Indian diplomat. He pretty much mirrors what Brother Ghaznavi has been saying and did say on Canadian TV. It appears that Scheuer supports Bhadrakumar's informed and honest narrative:

            http://the-diplomat.com/2010/08/30/t...ar-flashpoint/



            India caught in the Taliban myth
            By M K Bhadrakumar

            The horrendous terrorist attack on the Indian Embassy in Kabul on Monday has no precedents. Never has the mission there been attacked in this fashion - not even during the darkest periods of the civil war in the 1980s and 1990. Nor has any other diplomatic mission in Kabul been so targeted in the current phase of the civil war that began with the United States invasion in 2001.

            The suicide attack claimed the lives of 41 people, with more than 140 injured. Among the dead were Indian Defense Attache Brigadier R D Mehta, diplomat Venkateswara Rao and two Indian paramilitary guards.

            Unsurprisingly, Indian opinion makers have been swift in depicting the terrorist act as a moral evil, which it probably is. All the same, it is necessary to draw a line while presenting what happened as a kind of morality play of good versus evil. The danger is when the narrative begins depicting a moral universe where we are hated solely on account of our altruistic motives and intrinsic goodness.

            Whereas, the reality is that we live in savage times where realpolitik and not morality often enough happens to be the guiding force inciting our monstrous enemies. A need arises, therefore, to take a more honest look at any hidden sewers that may exist. Such an exercise cannot and should not in any way detract from the total condemnation that the terrorists deserve. But it will serve an important purpose in so far as we do not fall into a false sense of innocence.

            Even the death of a sparrow is a tragedy. Too many Indian lives are being lost in Afghanistan. The death of a brigadier, certainly, is a huge loss to India's armed forces. It is about time to ask questions why this is happening. First and foremost, do we comprehend the complexities of the Afghan situation?

            The primary responsibility for this task lies with the Indian mission in Kabul, which should assess the situation correctly and report to Delhi. The Ministry of External Affairs will be the best judge to decide whether there have been any lacunae in putting in place the underpinnings of India's Afghan policy. After all, a distinct pattern is emerging in the recent past. Is it mere coincidence?

            Each time an Indian life was lost, top officials in Delhi reiterated their resolve not to be deterred by terrorists. A high-level meeting of officials ensued to take stock of the security of Indian personnel in Afghanistan. Apart from diplomatic and other staff, several thousand Indians are involved in reconstruction work in the country.

            We then moved on. But does that approach suffice? Is anyone listening out there in the Hindu Kush? Isn't a comprehensive re-look of policy warranted? Something has gone very wrong somewhere. The government owes an explanation.

            One thing is clear. The Taliban are a highly motivated movement. They are not in the business of exhibitionism. Their actions are invariably pinpointed, conveying some distinguishable political message or the other. This has been so all along during the past decade. Anyone who interacted with the Taliban would agree.

            Even on the eve of the US invasion of Afghanistan in 2001, they were prepared to deal, but by then the Gorge W Bush administration was bent on the military path. In the present case of India's embassy, the terrorist attack was carefully targeted. Equally, its timing must also bear scrutiny. The overall fragility of the security situation or the prevailing climate of violence in Afghanistan alone cannot account for it. India is not part of the tens of thousands of coalition forces stationed in Afghanistan. But why is India being singled out? After all, Iran has been no less an "enemy" for the Taliban or al-Qaeda - or Russia and Uzbekistan for that matter.

            The first point is that the Taliban have once again chosen to target Indian interests, which are located on Afghan soil. They haven't stretched their long arm to act on Indian soil. Even though India's army chief recently speculated that Kashmiri militants could have tie-ups with the Taliban or al-Qaeda, such a link seems highly improbable. (Why there should have been such a speculative statement at all on a sensitive issue at such a responsible level, we do not know). The Taliban message is that they have a score to settle with India's Afghan policy; that it is best settled on Afghan soil; and that they do not have any hostility toward India as such.

            Two, the Taliban have ratcheted up the level of their attacks on Indian interests. Targeting the Indian chancery makes it a very serious message. It is unclear whether the Indian defense attache was specifically the target. Conceivably, he was. If so, the timing of the attack is relevant. India has sharply stepped up its military-to-military cooperation with Afghanistan. Media reports indicate that India is training Afghan military personnel and possibly supplying military hardware to the Afghan armed forces. The Indian authorities have not cared to deny these reports.

            Needless to say, the Taliban would be keeping a close tab. The Taliban have infiltrated Afghan security agencies and would know the nature of the India-Afghanistan military cooperation. In any case, in the Kabul bazaar, nothing remains secret for long. The Taliban seem to have sized up that the Afghan-Indian "mil-to-mil" cooperation is assuming a cutting edge, and the resent it, seeing it as unwarranted Indian interference in their country's internal affairs.

            Arguably, India's cooperation is within legitimate parameters. Delhi is dealing with the duly elected Afghan government of President Hamid Karzai, which enjoys international legitimacy. But such things are never quite that simple in war zones. It took all the persuasiveness on the part of India's envoys to get the mujahideen to accept, with the benefit of hindsight, that India's erstwhile ties with president Mohammad Najibullah's regime in the 1980s were history and were not directed against the mujahideen but merely signified government-to-government relations, which were usual.

            Again, as India learned at enormous cost, in the ultimate analysis, it became completely irrelevant that the Indian Peace Keeping Force saga in the mid-1980s in Sri Lanka began at the insistence of the established government in Colombo under the leadership at the highest level. The dividing line between the judicious and injudicious becomes thin when an outsider becomes involved in a fratricidal strife.

            In this particular case, there is an added factor. The Afghan army has pronounced ethnic fault lines. Ethnic Tajiks account for close to 70% of the officer corps of the army. So, when India trains Afghan army officers in its military academies to fight the Taliban - who are a predominantly Pashtun movement - India is needlessly stepping into a political minefield of explosive sensitivity. Either India does not comprehend these vicious undercurrents in Afghan politics or it chooses to deliberately overlook them. In any case, it demands some serious explanation.

            Three, the United Progressive Alliance government in Delhi has incrementally harmonized its Afghan policy with the US's "war on terror". This is most unfortunate. India ought to keep a safe distance from the Bush administration's war against militant Islam. Besides, the US has complicated motives behind its intervention in Afghanistan - its geostrategy toward Russia and Central Asia, its agenda of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization's expansion as a global political organization, its crusade against "Islamofascism", etc.

            Investigative journalist Seymour Hersh recently revealed in the New Yorker magazine what was an open secret - Washington has been using Afghanistan as a base for training and equipping terrorists and planning and executing subversive activities directed against Iran with a view to speeding up "regime change" in that country.

            India does not share these diabolical US policy objectives and hare-brained dogmas. But unfortunately, influential sections within the India security community have labored under the notion that acquiring a sort of frontline status in the US's "war on terror" in Afghanistan would have tangential gains with regard to Pakistan. The temptation to harmonize with the US is all the greater when we see that US-Pakistan security cooperation has come under strain on account of Islamabad's growing resistance to the American attempt to shift the locus of the war into the Afghanistan-Pakistan border and the tribal areas within Pakistan that border Afghanistan.

            Again, some others in India's strategic community hold a belief that it is time India began to flex its muscles in its region. Indeed, US think-tankers routinely encourage their counterparts to believe that India is far too shy and reticent for a serious regional power in the exercise of its muscle power.

            At any rate, there is a widespread perception in the international community - including former US officials who held responsible positions and even British statesmen - that Afghanistan is the theater of a proxy war between Pakistan and India. But we can certainly do without such a proxy war. There are five good reasons for saying so.

            First, it is tragic, immoral and contemptible if India indeed is cynical enough to overlook the suffering that it would be inflicting on the friendly Afghan people - who barely eke out a living as it is - by making them pawns in India's "low intensity" wars with Pakistan. Second, such a proxy war is contrary to India's broader regional policy, which is to make Pakistan a stakeholder in friendly relations with India. Third, India would be annoying or alienating the Pakistani military, which is a crucial segment of the Pakistani establishment. Fourth, it undercuts the climate of trust and confidence, which is gathering slowly but steadily in the overall relationship with Pakistan.

            Finally, it is plain unrealistic to overlook Pakistan's legitimate interests in Afghanistan. It would be as unrealistic as to expect that India would sit back and take with equanimity if it perceived creeping Pakistani influence in the Maldives, Sri Lanka, Nepal or Bhutan. (Three top Indian officials recently visited Colombo to make precisely such a point about trends toward Sri Lanka's expansion of ties with China and Pakistan.)

            Call it "sphere of influence", call it the "Monroe Doctrine" [1], but there are geopolitical realities that cannot be overlooked. Afghanistan poses fundamental challenges to Pakistan's territorial integrity and sovereignty. Therefore, Pakistan is highly sensitive about Afghanistan's external relations. It is inconceivable that Pakistan would take in its stride any Indian activities in Afghanistan, which it perceives as threatening its security interests. (Sophistries apart, Delhi's calculated political decision to maintain consulates in Jalalabad, Kandahar, Herat and Mazar-i-Sharif is a case in point.) A futile cycle of tit-for-tat will ensue
            whereby India and Pakistan would end up bleeding each other.

            From the Indian perspective at least, its national priorities at the present crucial juncture of economic growth and development should be very obvious. It can do without mindless distractions and extravaganzas. It needs a peaceful external environment. China's fascinating example of national priorities is in front of India - almost mocking it.

            The biggest danger is that in the present climate of euphoria over India's so-called strategic partnership with the US, Washington may egg Delhi on to a "proactive" role in Afghanistan. Indeed, this may be happening already to some extent. India (and China) has been approached by the Bush administration to send troops to Afghanistan. Understandably, with the Afghan war posing such a profound dilemma to the US, Washington would be immensely pleased if India, with its surplus manpower, geared up for a bit of load-sharing in the "war on terror".

            Nothing would be more foolhardy on India's part than to be drawn into the US stratagem. There cannot be any two opinions that when the chips are down, the US would know that Pakistan is a fundamentally more valuable ally in Afghanistan than India ever could aspire to be. Simply put, geography favors Pakistan, and geography delimits a direct Indian role in Afghanistan.

            India can only end up as a doormat for US regional policy. However, there are disturbing signs that sections of the Indian strategic community, egged on by the armchair cheerleaders in its media, are raring to go for a bit of action in the great game. Indeed, the great game in the Hindu Kush is a heady, exhilarating game. But it is also a high-risk one. It can even end up tragically, which was what happened to imperial Britain and the Soviet Union - and quite probably will happen to the US.

            It is understandable if India were to retaliate against the Taliban for its hostile activities towards India. But that is not the case here. The case is more of the powerful pro-American lobby in India's security community hoping against hope that somehow or the other a justification could be found for a raison d'etre for India to get involved in the Afghan war. The easy route is to cast the Taliban as inimical to India's national security.

            Part of the problem is also India's lack of understanding about the phenomenon of political Islam and its manifestations in its neighborhood. Carnegie scholar and author of Journey of the Jihadist: Inside Muslim Militancy, Fawaz A Gerges, has tackled the intellectual challenge of disentangling myth from the reality of Islamism. He came up with some facts to consider: a) Islamism is highly complex and diverse; the Muslim Brotherhood and its affiliates which form the overwhelming majority (over 90%) of religiously political groups embrace democratic principles and oppose violence; b) Mainstream Islamists have become unwitting harbingers of democratic transformation in Muslim societies, learning to make compromises and even rethink some of their absolute positions; c) Mainstream militants serve as a counterweight to ultra-militants like al-Qaeda; d) Islamists, like their secular counterparts, are deeply divided among themselves and the intensity of the fault lines are very real.

            Interestingly, Gerges had this to say about the Taliban: "There is nothing uniquely 'Islamic' about their internal governing style except the rhetoric and the symbolism. They have not offered up an original model of Islamic governance." Thus, once in power in the late 1990s, the Taliban did face a Herculean task of coping with political reality. If not for their cynical manipulation in the 1990s by outsiders - the US, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia - the Taliban would not have been driven into the welcoming arms of al-Qaeda.

            Much of the currently perceived threat to regional stability from the Taliban is a dark illusion that has been exaggerated and distorted. But then India became trapped by a fear and adversarial perceptions had crystallized by the late 1990s. India promptly, unconditionally, surrendered the right to question the myth about the Taliban. Indeed, Taliban functionaries kept conveying to India directly and through intermediaries that they didn't harbor ill will toward India to provoke such vehement Indian support for the anti-Taliban Northern Alliance.
            Maybe India overreacted; maybe the searing pain of the blood-letting in Jammu and Kashmir in the late 1980s and early 1990s percolated into India's thinking; maybe the specter of Islamic extremism genuinely haunted the country; maybe Pakistan's hostile manner prompted India to retaliate; maybe the hijack of the Indian Airlines aircraft to Kandahar in Afghanistan in 1999 and the humiliation that followed was too much to accept; maybe the destruction of the famed Bamyan statues in Afghanistan in 2001 was already an affront to India's civilization. Certainly, one thing led to another.

            But 2001 was a cut-off point. India should have stopped in its tracks and reassessed. The Bonn conference in the winter of 2001 following the invasion of Afghanistan was the occasion for an ancient country like India to have pointed out to the world community that there could be no durable peace unless the vanquished and the defeated party was also brought into the settlement. The Europeans would have understood. But India's political leadership let the country down. Instead, India revived belief in its role to battle evil. On the other hand, if India had plodded through, the myth might have easily fallen away. And that might have offered a permanent solution to India's Taliban problem.

            Ambassador M K Bhadrakumar was a career diplomat in the Indian Foreign Service. His assignments included the Soviet Union, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Germany, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Kuwait and Turkey.
            India has been talking with the Taliban, and bypassed the Afghan 'government.' Russia seems interested in doing the same. Im assuming Russia and India may think along the same train of thought.

            And suddenly, Pakistan proclaims that it will deliver peace in Afghanistan if its conditions are met, playing into a myth that does not exist. It is my guess that Taliban have begun to achieve regional recognition as the region is witnessing yet another empire fall at its hands. In my opinion, they will not, and have not spoken to the US. They have cleverly put the point across without uttering that many words- peace and security goes hand in hand with the removal of US-NATO forces. They made their point very clear: the US presence is the barrier to peace and security in Afghanistan. Talks with the 'government' in Kabul will only happen once US-NATO invaders have left.

            Comment


            • #96
              Michael Scheuer is a worthy enemy. He is a man in its truest sense unlike other fellows who only have the physical characteristic of male human beings.
              O'faithful hearken thy vezir, for he promises them another Gandamak and for the ancestors of Hari Nalwa a similar fate has been sealed. We shall shake the foundations of their inner sanctums, written in gold and immortal will remain this endeavor of Afghans.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by akbarkhan View Post
                Michael Scheuer is a worthy enemy. He is a man in its truest sense unlike other fellows who only have the physical characteristic of male human beings.
                Yep, he is one of the few that actually recognizes how innately Afghan the resistance movement is irrespective of any farcical impositions that the UN, very much an irrelevent and a dead carcass organization ala its Libya policy, attempts to make. Here is a supportive essay:

                "The Afghan Taleban’s political programme is exclusively Afghan. They want to force the Western ‘occupant forces’ to withdraw and to re-establish their Islamic Emirate. Beyond this, the Taleban never have developed a sophisticated political program, neither during their regime nor currently. This echoes the approach of Islamist movements elsewhere that simply claim that ‘Islam is the way’ and the recourse to Quran, Sunna and Sharia make further explanations superfluous.

                Structurally, today’s Taleban increasingly resemble their pre-9/11 incarnation. Today, they have set up a parallel government in large parts of the country, really existing in some places, only temporarily on the ground in others. Moreover, they consider themselves a ‘legitimate’ continuation of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (IEA) of 1996 to 2001 which, in their eyes, has been unlawfully removed by a foreign intervention and replaced by a ‘puppet administration’. The Taleban consciously continue to use the IEA insignia - and even more so after the self-delegitimisation of the Karzai government by the faulty 2009 presidential poll. They demand that journalists and aid organisations obtain permits to enter areas controlled by them. They correspond with foreign states and international organisations, send letters to the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation - mainly in one direction only, though. The Taleban increasingly present themselves a government in waiting and therefore also use a more all-Afghan national(istic) and Islamist then a narrow Pashtun-nationalist language, as some claim.

                http://aan-afghanistan.com/index.asp?id=696

                In fact the essay argues that the Neo Taliban were only Neo status post the ISI and Pakistani arrests of various leadership members that were Afghan centric.
                "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

                Comment


                • #98
                  When you really distill it down there appear to be two basic views here: Reality versus anti reality.

                  The reality view, supported by the likes of Matt Hoh indicates that the Taliban and other elements of the Afghan insurgency derive from the grassroots of Afghanistan. It promotes the idea that for the most part there is the secularized urban elite and then there is the rural Afghan that is a survivalist. The latter is used to a tribal based way of life and Islam plays at least a ritualistic part of the rural Afghan's way of life.

                  Then there is the anti reality (aka Flat Earth Society Membership) view. This view takes on multiple absurd viewpoints with various elements of conspiracy mongering: 1) The Taliban is all a group of Panjabies dressed up like Pashtuns that speak Pashto 2) The insurgency itself, against the Karzai government and the Northern alliance dominated ANA/ANP is ISI created and orchestrated and has no single Afghan member. 3) The very few Afghan members that are involved are lackeys of the ISI. All elements of the insurgency are Taliban and therefore are ISI sponsored according to this ridiculous view. 4) That can be no possible way any rural Afghan would ever raise his pistol against the ANA or the Central Illegitimate government propt up by force.

                  Here is an article today that the US Army recognizes different relaties than the flat earth society nationalists:

                  "Of the country’s 34 provinces, Paktika has been the fourth-deadliest for coalition soldiers in the nearly decade-long conflict. The tribal system remains strong here, as does support for the militants.

                  In an Army survey in February, more than two-thirds of Paktika residents said they sympathized with the Taliban. Many others, like Mr. Khan, a leather-skinned farmer with a henna-dyed orange beard, simply feel helpless to resist them."

                  The Flat Earthy Society members here will defy reality once again and claim that somehow, the Paktika polling is wrong because the voters felt intimidated. Yet, when polling data supports their viewpoint in other areas of the country they are primed to advertise those results to the world, like a giddy 16 year old girl at her birthday party.

                  Note the NYTime reliance on a village elder asking for arms. Interestingly enough the rest of the article lays out how the various Paktika tribes utilize American firepower to destroy eachother's gains.

                  The bottom line is that the Army Survey provides objective data that they cannot provide a counter to that indicates the locals support, in the majority, the Afghan insurgents. How the Flat Earth Society Members here will tie the ISI into this one should be interesting to observe.

                  http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/24/wo...er=rss&emc=rss

                  The bottom line of it all is that the Afghan Insurgency enjoyes popular support against what the rural majority southern Afghans, namely Pashtuns, view as a an occupier force backed governnment. Refer to the above articel by the Indian Diplomat as to why this might be in regard to non Pashtun dominance of the ANA.
                  "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by BarakzaiAbdali View Post
                    When you really distill it down there appear to be two basic views here: Reality versus anti reality.

                    The reality view, supported by the likes of Matt Hoh indicates that the Taliban and other elements of the Afghan insurgency derive from the grassroots of Afghanistan. It promotes the idea that for the most part there is the secularized urban elite and then there is the rural Afghan that is a survivalist. The latter is used to a tribal based way of life and Islam plays at least a ritualistic part of the rural Afghan's way of life.

                    Then there is the anti reality (aka Flat Earth Society Membership) view. This view takes on multiple absurd viewpoints with various elements of conspiracy mongering: 1) The Taliban is all a group of Panjabies dressed up like Pashtuns that speak Pashto 2) The insurgency itself, against the Karzai government and the Northern alliance dominated ANA/ANP is ISI created and orchestrated and has no single Afghan member. 3) The very few Afghan members that are involved are lackeys of the ISI. All elements of the insurgency are Taliban and therefore are ISI sponsored according to this ridiculous view. 4) That can be no possible way any rural Afghan would ever raise his pistol against the ANA or the Central Illegitimate government propt up by force.

                    Here is an article today that the US Army recognizes different relaties than the flat earth society nationalists:

                    "Of the country’s 34 provinces, Paktika has been the fourth-deadliest for coalition soldiers in the nearly decade-long conflict. The tribal system remains strong here, as does support for the militants.

                    In an Army survey in February, more than two-thirds of Paktika residents said they sympathized with the Taliban. Many others, like Mr. Khan, a leather-skinned farmer with a henna-dyed orange beard, simply feel helpless to resist them."

                    The Flat Earthy Society members here will defy reality once again and claim that somehow, the Paktika polling is wrong because the voters felt intimidated. Yet, when polling data supports their viewpoint in other areas of the country they are primed to advertise those results to the world, like a giddy 16 year old girl at her birthday party.

                    Note the NYTime reliance on a village elder asking for arms. Interestingly enough the rest of the article lays out how the various Paktika tribes utilize American firepower to destroy eachother's gains.

                    The bottom line is that the Army Survey provides objective data that they cannot provide a counter to that indicates the locals support, in the majority, the Afghan insurgents. How the Flat Earth Society Members here will tie the ISI into this one should be interesting to observe.



                    The bottom line of it all is that the Afghan Insurgency enjoyes popular support against what the rural majority southern Afghans, namely Pashtuns, view as a an occupier force backed governnment. Refer to the above articel by the Indian Diplomat as to why this might be in regard to non Pashtun dominance of the ANA.

                    This is what is good about America. They sometimes print the truth even if it hurts their cause. This deserves a separate thread. Thanks for the find.
                    Last edited by Guest; 04-24-2011, 03:04 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Here is a discussion of US Army (yep somehow the Flat Earth Society here will convert that into ISI Army in their minds; I just ignore them at this point) poll in another part of the country. The article refers to another NY Times article:

                      http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/a...N01/304229973/

                      "Taliban support

                      Afghans sympathetic to militants
                      THURSDAY, APRIL 22, 2010


                      An Army survey reveals what U.S. forces have to confront in their next major offensive in Afghanistan.

                      The U.S.-led forces are gearing up for a major operation in Kandahar province. It is considered the birthplace of the Taliban, who have widespread support among Kandaharis, according to a survey of 2,000 Kandaharis conducted by the U.S. Army's Human Terrain System and reported by the New York Times.

                      Five of six Kandahar residents considered the Taliban "our Afghan brothers." By a 19-to-1 margin, they support negotiations with the Taliban over hostilities.
                      In contrast to corruption in the Afghanistan's government, more than half of the Kandaharis polled considered the Taliban "incorruptible.""

                      Recall, that here, Michael Scheuer had stated this very likely view that Afghan Pashtuns viewed the Taliban is the least corruptible force.

                      http://www.spiegel.de/international/...714936,00.html

                      "Probably the only incorrupt people in Afghanistan are the Taliban. If you want no corruption, give the government back to the Taliban."

                      Yet here we have Flat Earth Society Members (aka PMAP and ANP terrorists supplemented by Afghan secular elites and failed communists) who advocate the killing of Afghan Freedom Fighters, viewed by their fellow countrymen as "Afghan brothers" to suit their sickening, misinformed, and murderous worldview; all to impose their hegemony and continue to milk the country for status and wealth. It is very interesting that not a single respondent equated these forces fighting the central government as ISI proxies. However, that is the common charge mounted by Karzai, Spanta, and the other Northern Alliance dominated members of the UN installed central government.

                      As noninterventionalists, what we can best do is continue to promote the idea and understanding to Americans, as Dr. Scheuer is actively doing, that the group most representative of the rural Pashtuns is the insurgency, hence their widespread support (even according to US Army surveys). That way, the interventionalist terrorists will be left to fight their own war and get their own hands dirty.
                      "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

                      Comment


                      • The above two posts supplemented with the certainty that folks like Mr. Achekzai are acknowledged and failed Marxists gives us a view into exactly what sort of goals these folks have. They exclaim loudly that the Khilfaath concept failed soon after Ali. Yet... their Anti-Caliph Najib utterly failed before even establishing a semblance of stability. Every claim they make against the Pan Islamist reverberates and comes right back to their doorstep as a greater indicator of their utter failures. Their inability to chameleonize and morph into secular capitalists without folks catching on is a hilarious example of history in action. Its sort of like this Southpark Clip where Cartman thinks he has secret invisibility powers, lol, only to look idiotic:

                        YouTube - Cartman Walks Across Stage Naked
                        "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by BarakzaiAbdali View Post
                          The above two posts supplemented with the certainty that folks like Mr. Achekzai are acknowledged and failed Marxists gives us a view into exactly what sort of goals these folks have. They exclaim loudly that the Khilfaath concept failed soon after Ali. Yet... their Anti-Caliph Najib utterly failed before even establishing a semblance of stability. Every claim they make against the Pan Islamist reverberates and comes right back to their doorstep as a greater indicator of their utter failures. Their inability to chameleonize and morph into secular capitalists without folks catching on is a hilarious example of history in action. Its sort of like this Southpark Clip where Cartman thinks he has secret invisibility powers, lol, only to look idiotic:

                          YouTube - Cartman Walks Across Stage Naked
                          LOL again, I am bumping this.

                          Comment


                          • Regarding the back and forth of the Afghan War. Let us see what Dr. Scheuer has said on how the West has utterly and ruinously lost the Afghan war, which is a guerrilla war of attrition in its best description. He defines the terms win and loss for US as well as its freedom fighter opposition movement.

                            Flat Earth Society members will likely have great difficulty doing a point by point rebuttal of this article that defines what a win is and was to US interests. I think I'll trust the best and brighest of the US analysts versus various naysayers that lack objective evidence.

                            To respond to him, I urge them to to do so directly at:

                            http://non-intervention.com/

                            Why West Lost Afghan War

                            by Michael Scheuer

                            The former head of the CIA's bin Laden unit says the US-led coalition has already lost the war in Afghanistan. A shake-up in military leadership won't change that.

                            Recent events surrounding Afghanistan shouldn’t confuse anyone, as the reality of the situation still lies in one simple statement: The US-NATO coalition has lost a war its political leaders never meant, or knew how, to win.

                            ‘Winning’ in Afghanistan was never anything more than killing Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, Mullah Omar, as many of their fighters and civilian supporters as possible and then getting out immediately with the full knowledge that—as Mao said long ago—insurgencies always rebuild and the process might need to be repeated.

                            The best and most appropriate response to al-Qaeda’s September 11 raid, then, would have been a unilateral US punitive expedition that inflicted massive death and destruction on the enemy and delivered a clear warning to Islamists not to pick fights with the United States. Indeed, many Islamists expected this response, which is why they poured vitriol on bin Laden and expected the US military to set back their movement a decade, if it did not destroy it completely.

                            Faced with this criticism, bin Laden simply said ‘wait,’ adding (in paraphrase) that the Americans and their allies can’t stomach casualties, that they won’t use their full military power and will unite Afghans by trying to Westernize them via popular elections, installing women’s rights, dismantling tribalism, introducing secularism and establishing NGO-backed bars and *****houses in Kabul. Bin Laden was right; it seems he is, among other things, a keen student of the West’s past nation-building operations.

                            Since June 1, the parade of incompetents crossing the Afghan stage is stunning: Gen. Stanley McChrystal, US President Barack Obama, Gen. David Petraeus, Afghan President Hamid Karzai—the list is long. McChrystal, saddled with a dead-end strategy devised by David Kilcullen, John Nagl and other counterinsurgency ‘experts,’ gave access to himself and his staff to Rolling Stone, long among the most anti-military US journals.

                            For his trouble and indiscreet words, McChrystal was fired by Obama—who, with his senior advisers, merit all the negative things said about them—and replaced by that purveyor of military snake oil, Gen. Petraeus. Even as the transitory success of the Iraq ‘surge’ is unravelling, Petraeus takes the Afghan command saying everything is okay (within a week the Pentagon’s media machine was telling Congress and Western publics that the ‘Afghan war is on track.’)

                            While this has played out, Hamid Karzai reportedly met with Sirajuddin Haqqani—a major Afghan insurgent leader—and prepared to surrender under the guise of creating a coalition regime. For all his failures and fabulously corrupt relatives, Karzai can easily solve the dilemma the West can’t even frame accurately: Question: What does the Taliban and its allies want? Answer: Power. So Karzai is talking to Haqqani, and probably Taliban leaders, to see if there’s a governing arrangement that will give him a role in post-NATO Afghanistan and doesn’t lead to his execution after the last NATO trooper leaves. The chance of this is near nil, however, and so Karzai and his family will have to step up the pace of their alleged thievery and get ready for an early exit that leaves the West holding the bag.

                            And as these parties circle the Afghan drain, Lindsay Graham, a much but inexplicably respected Republican senator from South Carolina, said: ‘This is a chance to start over completely [in Afghanistan].’ At the start of the US Civil War it was said South Carolina’s fatal flaw was that it’s too small to be a nation and too big to be an insane asylum. Sen. Graham has reconfirmed this truism

                            After nine years, it is utterly impossible to restart Western policy in Afghanistan. Too many Afghans are dead; too many Afghans and non-Afghan Muslims have joined the Taliban-led insurgency; too much pro-Taliban money is pouring into Afghanistan from wealthy donors on the Arabian Peninsula and across the Muslim world; too much Western funding has been stolen and sent abroad by Karzai’s cronies; too much popular support for the war in the West has been squandered; too many U.S.-NATO troops are dead or maimed; too much has been done by the West to push Pakistan toward the abyss by demanding its military do Western dirty work; and too much time has been wasted on counterinsurgency theories and policies that avoid killing the enemy and his civilian supporters. The one thing the West ‘can start over completely’ is a revision of the plans for withdrawal that moves up the departure date.

                            The bottom line is that the United States and NATO stand defeated in Afghanistan. Under McChrystal, Petraeus, or Obama himself the counterinsurgency strategy now being flogged has been intellectually bankrupt from its inception. No better proof of this can be found than the fact that the part of the policy meant to address the Afghans’ ‘quality of life’ has been a substantial success.

                            There are 3 million-plus more Afghan children in school today than in 2001; more electricity and potable water are available; many roads and irrigation systems have been rebuilt; and more primary health care is being delivered. Kilcullen, Nagl and their colleagues argued that such success would prompt the Afghans to turn away from the Taliban’s religiosity and nationalism and isolate that purportedly small force from a population swelling with delight and loyalty to Karzai because of material improvements. In short, a social science-powered, mini-New Deal in Afghanistan would win with minimal use of US-NATO military power because Afghans would joyfully jettison God and country for better teeth and smoother roads.

                            Well, no such thing occurred. As the trend line for these accomplishments rose, the positive trend line for the Taliban-led insurgency rose faster. The once southern-Afghanistan-based insurgency spread across the nation; the Taliban and its allies struck in Kabul at their pleasure; and the large military/social-work operation to clear insurgents from Marjah District in Helmand Province—framed as the test case to validate US-NATO strategy—became, in McChrystal’s words, an endless, ‘bleeding ulcer’ as the Taliban has gradually reasserted control there.

                            The enraging and unifying impact on Afghans of the US-NATO occupation of the country; Western support for the unrepresentative and corrupt Kabul regime; and the secularizing campaign by Western governmental agencies and NGOs has not and will never be negated by purer water and more refrigeration. The Afghans will appreciate and pocket the material improvements even as more of them take up arms to drive out occupiers they perceive as the enemies of God and Afghanistan. Western leaders should have recalled they’re not fighting Westerners, for whom more ice cubes and tetanus shots might have been enough to give up their faith.

                            A year after Obama outlined this new strategy at West Point it lay in shreds and tatters: the Taliban, et. al are more powerful and geographically dispersed, and the Afghan people are no less Islamic or nationalistic. The ever-present avenging angel of history ignored is exacting its pound of flesh and is still hungry. And the bin Laden-inspired Islamists are nearing victory over the world’s last superpower, a win that will have a galvanizing anti-US impact in the Islamic world by showing Muslims the impossible is possible.

                            The tragedy of this reality is that it would have taken no highly classified intelligence data or deeply penetrating brain power to predict its occurrence. A week’s reading at the local library about the occupations of Afghanistan by Alexander the Great, the British Empire and the Soviet Union shows each empire was sooner or later defeated and evicted—Alexander lasted longest because he built Greek colonies—by the most basic Afghan trait which has been transparently and overwhelmingly dominant since the 4th century B.C.: Afghans refuse to tolerate foreign occupation and rule.

                            Reading history’s lessons also would have shown that the one foreigner who had the most successful strategy for Afghanistan was Genghis Khan. He killed all the Afghan fighters and their families he encountered, built mountains of their skulls to remind Afghans that Mongols are not to be trifled with and then got his army out of the country to India as quickly as possible. George W. Bush had the chance to play Genghis for about a year but didn’t. Instead, he and his clone Obama defied history to try to win the love of Afghans and international applause. In the end, both men earned and richly merited what we see today—abject Western defeat.

                            Michael Scheuer is the author of ‘Imperial Hubris’ and former chief of the CIA’s Bin Laden Issue Station
                            Last edited by BarakzaiAbdali; 04-25-2011, 06:45 PM.
                            "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

                            Comment


                            • Evidence and what it entails:

                              Scholarly evidence (e.g. Bernard Lewis, Michael Scheuer, Ralph Peters, etc) is often laced with references within the textbooks and relies on reasoning to come to conclusions. When one reads, for instance, Scheuer's latest bio, entitled simply, Osama Bin Ladin, one notes that nearly a quarter of the book is its heavy set of references to primary sources such as the descriptions afforded of the many by family members like Najwa and Carmen Bin Ladin. He notes that the prior bios completely ignored the man's own words and rarely, if ever, relied on anything other than western sources for conclusions drawn. These folks differ from Farhat Taj Andersen and other cronies in that they their axe to grind does not coincide with the goals of involved parties. For instance, Farhat Taj Andersen has vested personal goals (Pashtun ANP links and obvious heavily laced shiite sympathies per her repeated articles lambasting issues realited to Bangash Shiite rights) and relies heavily on anecdote. For instance, one of her articles revolves solely on some Pashtun she met somewhere who told her that the "taliban should go to hell." She goes on to write how this sole individual she met in FATA somehow represents the general sentiment and that we all ought to see eye to eye with her simply because she met this individual. The idiocy is obvious for anyone with an objective mind. First, anyone who is willing to meet her and hang out with her is not likely to be a Taliban supporter in the first place. So selection bias is an easy criticism of her data and nearly every one of her pieces.

                              What is Scheuer's vested interest in seeing the Karzai regime fail? None at all really, he sacrificed his own career status post the faulty 9/11 commission report and has lost jobs from the Jamestown foundation for sticking with the truth. The latest example was attacks by Pro Israeli interest groups against his faculty position at Georgetown. His vast well of experience deals with the multiple facets of the hydra headed Islamic Worldwide Insurgency. Rather, he is taking an unpopular and main stream media caustic approach to the war (hence his confrontation with Christine Romans of CNN over the matters at hand).

                              Second, note that in the above article he makes an interesting hypothesis and correlation for the reader regarding an absolute indirect relationship between Afghan nation building and the rising support for the insurgency. This is obvious based on the evidence at hand. Its a lesson Kipling, Elphinston, and others all taught to their countrymen regarding the idea that, oh yes, an Afghan will, in fact accept your money, but he will go on doing exactly what he wants once he gets it. The above article from the New York times a few posts ago indicates exactly that. The tribes were paid to Taliban hunt and instead seeded the US military with contempt for clan rivals and eliminated them using US fire power.

                              Another example was this recent Mortensen related debacle about how an Afghan pocketed the money alotted to Mortensen style efforts and simply got involved in some "business ventures" of his own:

                              http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...aJE_print.html

                              So even by the nation building definition, the US appears not to be winning. A whole Washington post article indicates that US built and funded infrastructer crumbles once under Afghan control:
                              http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...010302175.html

                              Once again, that hardly seems like a win, even for the promoters of nation building or the absurd idea that the rural average Afghan sees a cost benefit ratio that falls to his favor by promoting UN stability brought to him at the barrell of a gun. The dangerous assumption there is that any stability is being bought to him the first place.

                              Note Qandahar article and polling cited a post of two ago indicates that the Qandaharis, as Scheuer astutely pointed out, view the Taliban as the least corruptible of all the options. Dealing with day to day corruption and inept governance was what bought the Taliban into the foray in the first place. Another example of this was when the US put Alizai qabaael leader and open Ishaqzai enemy Sher Mohmad Akhunzada, aka Child Rapist extraordinaire, in charge of local efforts. The locals clearly warned the US that they were going to side with the Taliban as this was a replica of the pre 90s set up:

                              http://www.alternet.org/world/141648...s.,_uk_troops/

                              Why is Karzai doomed to fail? Its because he rubber stamped the ascendency of these types, including the corrupt and murderous and now dead Abdul Razzaq, aka the Police Chief of Qandahar.

                              Regarding their support base, it appears that the US Army Paktika data belies the notion that a fringe membership of southern rural Afghanistan sympathizes with the Taliban. The Flat Earth Society has the US Military's own data to content with.

                              Scheuer has now, in the last 2-3 weeks written successfully regarding each and every move the Obama administration has and was about to take in Libya. That shows he, unlike Flat Earthy Society Members, understands the mechanisms underlying the pathology that fuels insurgency.

                              This is exactly why his work cites well known polls like the University of Maryland's massively powered and unreplicated polling in the Muslim world regarding views of US hegemony and desire for a component of Islamic law.

                              Another great example of Scheuer's phenomenal forsight was this article that just about predicted the Mumbai bombins literally a month or so before they happened:

                              http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JI20Df02.html

                              "If Islamist terrorists/insurgents - whether acting alone or with Pakistani aid - strike an Indian target of heretofore unprecedented economic importance or one that produces huge and mostly Hindu casualties, the road to war may be quite short. For two nuclear-armed and mortal antagonists, this is a new and very dangerous level of unpredictability."

                              - Written September 20 2008, an amazing example of how much smarter Michael is than the intellectually challenged and agenda laced writers I have encountered elsewhere.

                              -Date of Mumbai bombings? November 28 2008

                              Nonscholarly evidence and what it entails:

                              Basically, taking any article that appears to possibly allow for Pakistan to escape the situation unscathed and label it an ISI hit piece. It makes no sense and betrays an obvious agenda. This is in diametric opposition to someone who is even handed like Michael Scheuer who prefers a strong US that returns to its noninterventionist and constitutional roots.
                              "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by BarakzaiAbdali View Post
                                Evidence and what it entails:

                                Scholarly evidence (e.g. Bernard Lewis, Michael Scheuer, Ralph Peters, etc) is often laced with references within the textbooks and relies on reasoning to come to conclusions. When one reads, for instance, Scheuer's latest bio, entitled simply, Osama Bin Ladin, one notes that nearly a quarter of the book is its heavy set of references to primary sources such as the descriptions afforded of the many by family members like Najwa and Carmen Bin Ladin. He notes that the prior bios completely ignored the man's own words and rarely, if ever, relied on anything other than western sources for conclusions drawn. These folks differ from Farhat Taj Andersen and other cronies in that they their axe to grind does not coincide with the goals of involved parties. For instance, Farhat Taj Andersen has vested personal goals (Pashtun ANP links and obvious heavily laced shiite sympathies per her repeated articles lambasting issues realited to Bangash Shiite rights) and relies heavily on anecdote. For instance, one of her articles revolves solely on some Pashtun she met somewhere who told her that the "taliban should go to hell." She goes on to write how this sole individual she met in FATA somehow represents the general sentiment and that we all ought to see eye to eye with her simply because she met this individual. The idiocy is obvious for anyone with an objective mind. First, anyone who is willing to meet her and hang out with her is not likely to be a Taliban supporter in the first place. So selection bias is an easy criticism of her data and nearly every one of her pieces.

                                What is Scheuer's vested interest in seeing the Karzai regime fail? None at all really, he sacrificed his own career status post the faulty 9/11 commission report and has lost jobs from the Jamestown foundation for sticking with the truth. The latest example was attacks by Pro Israeli interest groups against his faculty position at Georgetown. His vast well of experience deals with the multiple facets of the hydra headed Islamic Worldwide Insurgency. Rather, he is taking an unpopular and main stream media caustic approach to the war (hence his confrontation with Christine Romans of CNN over the matters at hand).

                                Second, note that in the above article he makes an interesting hypothesis and correlation for the reader regarding an absolute indirect relationship between Afghan nation building and the rising support for the insurgency. This is obvious based on the evidence at hand. Its a lesson Kipling, Elphinston, and others all taught to their countrymen regarding the idea that, oh yes, an Afghan will, in fact accept your money, but he will go on doing exactly what he wants once he gets it. The above article from the New York times a few posts ago indicates exactly that. The tribes were paid to Taliban hunt and instead seeded the US military with contempt for clan rivals and eliminated them using US fire power.

                                Another example was this recent Mortensen related debacle about how an Afghan pocketed the money alotted to Mortensen style efforts and simply got involved in some "business ventures" of his own:

                                http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...aJE_print.html

                                So even by the nation building definition, the US appears not to be winning. A whole Washington post article indicates that US built and funded infrastructer crumbles once under Afghan control:
                                http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...010302175.html

                                Once again, that hardly seems like a win, even for the promoters of nation building or the absurd idea that the rural average Afghan sees a cost benefit ratio that falls to his favor by promoting UN stability brought to him at the barrell of a gun. The dangerous assumption there is that any stability is being bought to him the first place.

                                Note Qandahar article and polling cited a post of two ago indicates that the Qandaharis, as Scheuer astutely pointed out, view the Taliban as the least corruptible of all the options. Dealing with day to day corruption and inept governance was what bought the Taliban into the foray in the first place. Another example of this was when the US put Alizai qabaael leader and open Ishaqzai enemy Sher Mohmad Akhunzada, aka Child Rapist extraordinaire, in charge of local efforts. The locals clearly warned the US that they were going to side with the Taliban as this was a replica of the pre 90s set up:

                                http://www.alternet.org/world/141648...s.,_uk_troops/

                                Why is Karzai doomed to fail? Its because he rubber stamped the ascendency of these types, including the corrupt and murderous and now dead Abdul Razzaq, aka the Police Chief of Qandahar.

                                Regarding their support base, it appears that the US Army Paktika data belies the notion that a fringe membership of southern rural Afghanistan sympathizes with the Taliban. The Flat Earth Society has the US Military's own data to content with.

                                Scheuer has now, in the last 2-3 weeks written successfully regarding each and every move the Obama administration has and was about to take in Libya. That shows he, unlike Flat Earthy Society Members, understands the mechanisms underlying the pathology that fuels insurgency.

                                This is exactly why his work cites well known polls like the University of Maryland's massively powered and unreplicated polling in the Muslim world regarding views of US hegemony and desire for a component of Islamic law.

                                Another great example of Scheuer's phenomenal forsight was this article that just about predicted the Mumbai bombins literally a month or so before they happened:

                                http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JI20Df02.html

                                "If Islamist terrorists/insurgents - whether acting alone or with Pakistani aid - strike an Indian target of heretofore unprecedented economic importance or one that produces huge and mostly Hindu casualties, the road to war may be quite short. For two nuclear-armed and mortal antagonists, this is a new and very dangerous level of unpredictability."

                                - Written September 20 2008, an amazing example of how much smarter Michael is than the intellectually challenged and agenda laced writers I have encountered elsewhere.

                                -Date of Mumbai bombings? November 28 2008

                                Nonscholarly evidence and what it entails:

                                Basically, taking any article that appears to possibly allow for Pakistan to escape the situation unscathed and label it an ISI hit piece. It makes no sense and betrays an obvious agenda. This is in diametric opposition to someone who is even handed like Michael Scheuer who prefers a strong US that returns to its noninterventionist and constitutional roots.
                                manana Barakzai wror. Your thread has been very useful for me and many others here on PF. Keep it up.

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