Barakzai's Recommendations

[ScimitarXEdge]

Although your question is directed at Barakzai; IMO Fareed Zakaria is an apologist moron. The guy is clueless; While it is true that extremism is not intrinsic to Islam; the current stream of it is a perversion of Islamic Revolutionary Movements. These revolutionary Movements were galvanized in response to the Imperial Forge which was laying waste to Islamic Lands; they established the policiies, political/state order/boundaries of the region in modern times, which people they had indoctrinated were set in place to maintain. This practice and this process of maintaining it was inherited later by the United States. so to say it has nothing to do with Policy is intellectual dishonesty. Later due to the persistent subsidization of these manufactured institutions via America or the UK or France and so on; these groups deviated and ended up perverted into extremism. Is it any wonder? The once Sufi Influenced Ikhwan Al Muslimeen lead by Hassan al Banna, became filled with Takfiri Nutcases like Ayman Zawahiri.

Fareed Zakaria is essentially a product of that same imperial system which he's trying to cover up for.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Azmal, stop frothing from the mouth please.

You're on again in your usual tripe of lacking debate skills and labeling everyone a Paki to compensate for not having a meritable argument.

firstly you're completely giving a strawman and red herring diversions. Barakzai is not presenting his own opinions here, you should be more than happy to see that Barakzai is quoting from an American, one of the British Raj's own children; this would fill your slavish mindset with glee.

Second your random statistics are as credible as your sense of identity i.e. void of credibility.

third moral behavior regulation is nothing new to Afghan society; ever heard of something called ...um Pashtunwali? Of course not, why would someone who's entire identity is based on books from Amazon know anything about Pashtunwali and its moral regulatory stance.

You present a false premise which does not hold any weight. You create this false dichotomy that because a book was burnt people were reacting. It's not the book being burned that people were responding to but the fact the act represents the Hegemonistic conquest that everything the people of Afghanistan have held sacred is being set and conquered over by this Imperial Entity which masks its conquests as "humanitarian ventures"; and they have just begun to realize it. The book burning was only symbolic of that fact. Notice it was UN peace keepers and not random western journalists or reporters being killed? Why do you think that is? Because those UN peace keepers represent an occupation; they represent the subjugation of a society that's been historically embroiled against Imperialism by the Imperial Hordes of the 21st Century. These UN peacekeepers are their occupiers and those who enforce their hegemony. They were a hostile force. That's all there is.

To portray it as some situation of reprimanding passive bystanders for someone elses follies is intellectually dishonest. But alas your whole reason for being here is to serve the Imperial Agenda their Damage Control; the British Raj will be most pleased with you. Good ghulam.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

BarakzaiAbdali,
Do you frequently read the New York Times?

With a grain of salt when it comes to foreign matters. I think their expose on the Karzai Clan (including the inept Yama Karzai with whom I have had a few bad run ins) was very well done. It was long overdue.

However, I think that they showed their cards (where their loyalties generally lie) with their recent behavior in regard to the Raymond Davis case. Whatever one may think about the ISI, Pakistan, Afghanistan, the Moon, Mars, Venus or whatever else one has a passionate hate or love for... newsworthy news ought to be reported.
Amy Davidson made an excellent case in the New Yorker as to why Arthur Brisbane was incoherent on the reporting the Times did on the incident:

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...out-davis.html

The Judith Miller fiasco was also an example of the NY Times supporting bad reporting and an agenda. Her war reporting was a massive catalyst for trumping up the White House line on why Iraq was ripe for invasion.

One has to be selective in what they read. For example, while Al Jazeera does appear to offer higher quality information... they also expunge insurgent videos that are released to them. This renders the public and security analysts without access to these videos which generally detail a motivation behind various attacks.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Barakzai,
I am interested in your thoughts about Fareed Zakaria's take on this whole issue where he states that Islamic extremism was not fundamentally rooted in Islam, nor could it be claimed a reaction to American foreign policy. It had its roots in the stagnation and dysfunctions of the Arab world. Decades of failure under tyrannical regimes, all claiming to be Western-style secular modernizers, had produced an opposition that was anti-Western, religious, violent, and increasingly globalized.

I want to give you an honest and educated answer that is not spewn out rapid fire. Give me a day or two to put it together.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

With due amusement to watch a self proclaim “American” who don’t give a “**** about Afghanistan” at work to further a repressive, barbaric paki creatures gang Taliban… reminds me of Mushraf 90s remark “Afghan people are like that.” Yea we afghan ought to allow Pakistan trained Mullah to police our moral behavior…instead of mullah work on propagating the faith through active debate and written persuasion. (As a Muslim raised in a liberal Democracy, I know I’ve nothing to worry about, for the case for religious belief is even stronger in a free society. I’ve chosen to be a Muslim…instead of born Muslim---est 300000 Afghans convert to Christianity during Taliban rule… lee then 2% of Iranian in Volayat E Feqi attending mosque.) Even more comically is the idea insanity we witness over Qouran burning is a reaction to west—(more then 40 Muslim Afghan and Swede, a Norwegian, a Rumanian and four Nepalese security guards killed for for the rage of burning of the Koran by American religious extremists in Florida, the USA-)…just as tens of Muslim got killed during Danish cartoons protests—no wonder Muslim critics accuse us of not knowing how to live peacefully among one another…but for sake of argument… If during one evening I were to be bold enough to venture into territory renowned for violent crime, and were subsequently found dead in a gutter the following morning, does my irresponsible behavior excuse the murderers? Would you have the judge announce… “Considering the foolish irresponsibility displayed by the deceased, I hereby sentence the defendant – Haji Gul Khan – to one month good behavior and an additional $30 worth of daffodils for Azmal’s grave…. I also sentence Azmal’s entire family (the Danish and American people) to 5 years imprisonment for having allowed such irresponsible mentality in their home.” Sound absurd? I hope so, for it’s a perfection depiction of your nonexistent argument.


Ps: “Kandahar rebellion when Soraya was unveiled” interestingly I’m reading “Afghanistan dar Hahd e Halhazrat Amanullah khan” by Fazil Ghani Mojadidi oddly descendent of Hazrat e ShorBazar Mojadidi--- first mullah giving Fetwa to rebel against Ghazi Amanullah....its mention in page 219…that British secret service fake nude photo of Malekah Soraya…speared across Kandahar… also mention of Times article… January 16 1929 which clearly state rebellion against Shah Amanullah(may god bless his soul) were architected by British.

So here is where I think your logic breaks down and where what you say really brings out, for discerning readers at least, your motivations and how they cloud pragmatic and practical reasoning in your brain.

1. The example you gave of Azmal going into the "hood" and getting shot up is through your own prism or lenses. A more fitting example or comparison that paints the complex picture a bit better would be as follows:

Barakzai (a Muslim) decides to go to Alabama. Now mind you, Alabama is not the hood. Random acts of violence may occur, but they are generally predictable acts of violence to the effect of what you detailed in your example. So now Barakzai ought to know that just outside of Birmingham, there are enclaves of strict Baptists. In fact, some of Barakzai's childhood friends might very well have appeared in documentaries like Jesus Camp:

http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/

These areas are generally peaceful... people may look at Muslim or any other religionist with a wary eye... but they are not going to attack you unless you instigate problems.

What would happen if Barakzai decided to discuss the nevaeu art piece he saw in NYC of the Baby Christ and Mother made from feces? What would the Baptists do if Barakzai decided to take a Bible and excrete human fluids and waste onto it or to burn it?

Or for that matter... let us take the example of the famous Mr. John Lennon, likely the greatest rhythm guitarist of all times and the real modern father of rock and roll. After all, I think John's personae trumps Barakzai's across most the world.

Here were John's words about Christianity and Jesus:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_popular_than_Jesus

"Christianity will go. It will vanish and shrink. I needn't argue about that; I'm right and I'll be proved right. We're [The Beatles] more popular than Jesus now; I don't know which will go first—rock 'n' roll or Christianity. Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. It's them twisting it that ruins it for me."

Do you want to know the response of the Bible Belt in the South?

"There was uproar in response, starting with an announcement by two radio stations in Alabama and Texas that they had banned Beatles music from their playlists. WAQY DJ Tommy Charles said, "We just felt it was so absurd and sacrilegious that something ought to be done to show them that they can't get away with this sort of thing."[9] Around two dozen other stations followed suit with similar announcements. Some stations in the South went further, organising demonstrations with bonfires, drawing hordes of teenagers to publicly burn their Beatles records and other memorabilia. The Memphis city council, aware that a Beatles concert was scheduled at the Mid-South Coliseum during the band's imminent US tour, voted to cancel it rather than have "municipal facilities be used as a forum to ridicule anyone's religion." The Ku Klux Klan nailed a Beatles album to a wooden cross, vowing "vengeance", and conservative groups staged further public burnings of Beatles records.[9][10]"

Would you like to know the outcome of Mr. Lennon's infraction?

"Lennon was murdered on 8 December 1980 by Mark David Chapman. Chapman, who became a born-again Christian in 1970,[15] was incensed by Lennon's "bigger than Jesus" remark, calling it blasphemy. He was further enraged by Lennon's songs "God" and "Imagine"—even singing the latter with the altered lyric: "Imagine John Lennon dead."[16]

I can portend that your and Toramana's predictable responses are going to be: Well, sure Chapman killed Lennon... but Chapman is in jail. Sure, Chapman is in jail... and Chapman's country is the leading industrial, economic, and scientific giant in all the world and in all of history. The region of the country Lennon was killed in, NYC, is also an economic hub. Its not Afghanistan (or Pakistan or your native Tajikistan), a third world, tribalistic society that still functions on a code that intersperses religion into the affairs of governance.

To buttress this line of reasoning, let us look at the previously economically left behind southern states (the same region that was lit on fire when John Lennon made his statement) and their support for Mr. Eric Rudolph.

A little about Rudolph, was who lionized and legendary near where I grew up... and supported by the masses:

"When asked about his religion he said, "I was born a Catholic, and with forgiveness I hope to die one."[4][24] In other written statements, Rudolph has cited biblical passages and offered religious motives for his militant opposition to abortion.[25]"

Look at how coreligionists sheltered Christian fundamentalist, and abortion clinic bomber Eric Rudolph for nearly a decade after he killed a score or more of people in his attack:

"It is thought that Rudolph had the assistance of sympathizers while evading capture. Some in the area were vocal in support of him. Two country music songs were written about him and a locally top-selling T-shirt read: "Run Rudolph Run." The Anti-Defamation League noted that "extremist chatter on the Internet has praised Rudolph as 'a hero' and some followers of hate groups are calling for further acts of violence to be modeled after the bombings he is accused of committing."

Therefore, your example of equating Afghanistan with "the hood" only exposes how your rabid interventionalism had nothing to do with wishing the best for our people. Rather, it shows that you view Afghanistan as this chaotic land with subhuman people that have wiley and unhuman responses to stimuli.

Then you do yourself further injustice by somehow claiming that anyone that takes a stance based on logic (namely that people get mad when their religion is insulted and their holy book is desecrated) is automatically condoning murder. Its absurdity after absurdity that comes out of your mind.

How about a more complex picture? How about the picture of a country that recently became privy to Stryker Kill Team photos depicting their innocent countrymen being displayed as trophys + occupation + the added catalyst of burning and desecrating someone's holy book = the likelihood for violence? But I suppose that complex thought alludes you and agenda clouds your thinking beyond repair or salvage.

The rest, I think ScimitarEdge did well enough on.

Point 2 in another post.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

With due amusement to watch a self proclaim “American” who don’t give a “**** about Afghanistan” at work to further a repressive, barbaric paki creatures gang Taliban… reminds me of Mushraf 90s remark “Afghan people are like that.” Yea we afghan ought to allow Pakistan trained Mullah to police our moral behavior…instead of mullah work on propagating the faith through active debate and written persuasion. (As a Muslim raised in a liberal Democracy, I know I’ve nothing to worry about, for the case for religious belief is even stronger in a free society. I’ve chosen to be a Muslim…instead of born Muslim---est 300000 Afghans convert to Christianity during Taliban rule… lee then 2% of Iranian in Volayat E Feqi attending mosque.) Even more comically is the idea insanity we witness over Qouran burning is a reaction to west—(more then 40 Muslim Afghan and Swede, a Norwegian, a Rumanian and four Nepalese security guards killed for for the rage of burning of the Koran by American religious extremists in Florida, the USA-)…just as tens of Muslim got killed during Danish cartoons protests—no wonder Muslim critics accuse us of not knowing how to live peacefully among one another…but for sake of argument… If during one evening I were to be bold enough to venture into territory renowned for violent crime, and were subsequently found dead in a gutter the following morning, does my irresponsible behavior excuse the murderers? Would you have the judge announce… “Considering the foolish irresponsibility displayed by the deceased, I hereby sentence the defendant – Haji Gul Khan – to one month good behavior and an additional $30 worth of daffodils for Azmal’s grave…. I also sentence Azmal’s entire family (the Danish and American people) to 5 years imprisonment for having allowed such irresponsible mentality in their home.” Sound absurd? I hope so, for it’s a perfection depiction of your nonexistent argument.


Ps: “Kandahar rebellion when Soraya was unveiled” interestingly I’m reading “Afghanistan dar Hahd e Halhazrat Amanullah khan” by Fazil Ghani Mojadidi oddly descendent of Hazrat e ShorBazar Mojadidi--- first mullah giving Fetwa to rebel against Ghazi Amanullah....its mention in page 219…that British secret service fake nude photo of Malekah Soraya…speared across Kandahar… also mention of Times article… January 16 1929 which clearly state rebellion against Shah Amanullah(may god bless his soul) were architected by British.

2. Your continued obsession with proving that religion does not or has not played a role in Afghan affairs is still reality defying no matter how you attempt to buttress this dimension X style thinking.

Let us say that your history is correct. Let us say that the mullah class and the British colluded to instigate a rebellion. So what? You merely prove my point for me. You would be far stretched to show me that the unveiling jirga event in Qandahar did not occur (because it is historical fact that it did occur per Amanullah's modernization programs)... and you would be even more historically challenged if you allege that the fighters and the tribal rebels were also "British soldiers" or men from the Panjab (your usual favorite Bogeyman)... or Arabs (another classic refrain in your sad swan song). They were Afghan fighters who rebelled no matter who generated the stimulus.

So let us run with this statement that supports your history:

"However, the time was not right. Not only did conservative Muslims disagree with the changes, the British distributed pictures of Soraya without a veil, dining with foreign men, and having her hand kissed by the leader of France, Germany, etc. among tribal regions of Afghanistan."

You are conveniently leaving out and not emphasizing the part of the sentence that matters and that supports what I have been saying about the native nature of the Afghan tribal individual from the rural countryside (which I have underlined above). In fact, there is a source that supports your history, written by an author that supports your goals... but derives completely different conclusions regarding the inherent nature of the Afghan people.

"Many conservative Afghans in the rural areas felt that the reforms were too .western. for their society and the forced changes were against the doctrines of Islam. People in the countryside were unable to comprehend the changes being imposed on them in haste, especially since men saw these changes as challenging their familial and tribal authority. Resistance was strongest to the abolition of bride price and polygamy, and to the introduction of education for girls. The 1920s were thus the time that conflicts between the elite modernists and traditionalist tribes began to surface. The main bone of contention was the changing status of women. What broke the proverbial camel’s back for the traditionalists and rural population was the institution in 1924 of the freedom of women to choose their own partners and attempts to abolish bride price. Fathers of young women saw such progressive laws as a loss of social status, familial control and financial security."

"By 1928, the ethnic tribal leaders in the rural regions grew restless and developed coalitions to protest the freedoms women were experiencing in Kabul. It should be pointed out here that in this period women in tribal and rural areas outside of Kabul did not receive the benefits of modernization. Tribal leaders controlled not only their regions, but through inter-tribal unity, held sway over most of the nation in resisting attempts at modernization. The Loya Jirga,4 finally put their foot down when marriage age of girls was raised to 18 years and for men to 21 years, and polygamy was abolished. They also opposed the education of girls, and by the late 1920s forced Amanullah to reverse some of his policies and conform to a more traditional agenda of social change. Schools for girls in Kabul and in rural areas were closed down, and women had to revert to wearing the veil. As Moghadam (1997) points out, women could not cut their hair, mullahs were given unlimited powers to institute their agendas and the old tribal system was to be reinstated. Amanullah even married a second time (for a brief period) to pacify the opposition, but it was too late. (Stewart, 1973) Nevertheless, pressures on Amanullah mounted, and in 1929 he was forced to abdicate and leave the country."

The source of the above?:
Journal of International Women.s Studies Vol 4 #3 May 2003

http://www.scribd.com/doc/35551039/Women-in-Afghanistan

Let me guess... you will now allege that the Journal of International Women's Studies is a mouthpiece for Pakistani propaganda, your typical response to all things.

This basically defeats your false construct of a bangra Afghanistan where the country side was filled with dancing men and women singing REM's "Shiney Happy People" while Queen Soraya was the Lady Gaga of her day, holding Amanullah's (Perhaps the John Mayor of his day) at the Rock Music Awards festivel held in Qandahar (the original home to the Sundance Film Festival in your alternate reality).

[BarakzaiAbdali]

With due amusement to watch a self proclaim “American” who don’t give a “**** about Afghanistan” at work to further a repressive, barbaric paki creatures gang Taliban… reminds me of Mushraf 90s remark “Afghan people are like that.” Yea we afghan ought to allow Pakistan trained Mullah to police our moral behavior…instead of mullah work on propagating the faith through active debate and written persuasion. (As a Muslim raised in a liberal Democracy, I know I’ve nothing to worry about, for the case for religious belief is even stronger in a free society. I’ve chosen to be a Muslim…instead of born Muslim---est 300000 Afghans convert to Christianity during Taliban rule… lee then 2% of Iranian in Volayat E Feqi attending mosque.) Even more comically is the idea insanity we witness over Qouran burning is a reaction to west—(more then 40 Muslim Afghan and Swede, a Norwegian, a Rumanian and four Nepalese security guards killed for for the rage of burning of the Koran by American religious extremists in Florida, the USA-)…just as tens of Muslim got killed during Danish cartoons protests—no wonder Muslim critics accuse us of not knowing how to live peacefully among one another…but for sake of argument… If during one evening I were to be bold enough to venture into territory renowned for violent crime, and were subsequently found dead in a gutter the following morning, does my irresponsible behavior excuse the murderers? Would you have the judge announce… “Considering the foolish irresponsibility displayed by the deceased, I hereby sentence the defendant – Haji Gul Khan – to one month good behavior and an additional $30 worth of daffodils for Azmal’s grave…. I also sentence Azmal’s entire family (the Danish and American people) to 5 years imprisonment for having allowed such irresponsible mentality in their home.” Sound absurd? I hope so, for it’s a perfection depiction of your nonexistent argument.


Ps: “Kandahar rebellion when Soraya was unveiled” interestingly I’m reading “Afghanistan dar Hahd e Halhazrat Amanullah khan” by Fazil Ghani Mojadidi oddly descendent of Hazrat e ShorBazar Mojadidi--- first mullah giving Fetwa to rebel against Ghazi Amanullah....its mention in page 219…that British secret service fake nude photo of Malekah Soraya…speared across Kandahar… also mention of Times article… January 16 1929 which clearly state rebellion against Shah Amanullah(may god bless his soul) were architected by British.

Finally, point 3:

Your involuted logic is really impressive... the inability to grasp reality or at least come to some basic common sense reasoning reveals a mind that is at a loss and attempting to rectify glaring contradictions in the propagandistic narrative you have devised (i.e. Pakistan is responsible for the F you got on your history test and Pakistan got that girl three doors down pregnant and Pakistan got That 70s Show cancelled).

So you attempt to malign the Afghans at the ground level, alleging that you are able to talk out your scriptural differences and that this shows your civility (versus their "Pakistani" sense of uncivility?).

Well, it takes 2 to tango. Certainly, I applaud your ability to discuss your faith in a civil manner.

However, please explain to me how depicting a holy individual, whether it be Buddah, the Prophet Muhammad (S), Jesus Christ, Paul of Tarsus, Zoroaster in a malignant cartoon... or burning a holy book in effigy are constructs off which to base discussions?

Rather, it appears that American Law code itself disagrees with you. Take for instance the charge of disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace:

"Makes a coarse and obviously offensive utterance, gesture, or display in a public place and the utterance, gesture, or display tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace..."

http://answers.uslegal.com/criminal/16643/

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...bing-the-peace

Then how, when Americans themselves do not appreciate the reprecussions of ignorance, do you mandate folks contintents away, steeped in a completely different governmental-religious tradition to not react to Pastor Jones's actions? Not only does it put American soldiers in greater danger... not only does it create the sort of backlash one might expect... but the action is just downright ignorant and assinine.

----------------------------------------------------
Regarding your supposed "looooove" for Afghanistan. Give me a break.

You know Azmal, many pediatricians do not recommend that new born babies be placed directly next to their sleeping mothers. This recommendation is really emphasized in third world nations.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/pregnancy-...ectid=10544593

"The latest death follows Northland Coroner Brandt Shortland warning of the risks of putting babies to sleep in the same bed as parents or siblings."

So this is a messalaah (or a similitude as we say in Pashto) for the way you live life. You are, quiet simply, "loving" Afghans to death.

You claim that somehow "love" Afghanistan more than me. Yet you, like these mothers that smother their babies accidently, are killing your own people with this unadulterated "love". What is worse, is that you are simulataneously serving as a fifth column, unpatriotic American citizen. You are simply erecting straw men arguments to enact your sick experiments on the people in the motherland. All the while, you are too happy to send American boys and girls to be killed, maimed, and shot to do your bidding, while you sit back and read Farsizubaan books and lay claim to some Naziesque construct of Afghanistan.

Trust me, many more Afghans, and I have spoken to them there, do not want your "love" in the form of B52 bombers in the skies above them or Tanks on the streets next to them.

They prefer you pay heed to the advice of John Quincy Adams and leave them be. He forsaw fifth column traitors to America like yourself:

"And now, friends and countrymen, if the wise and learned philosophers of the elder world, the first observers of nutation and aberration, the discoverers of maddening ether and invisible planets, the inventors of Congreve rockets and Shrapnel shells, should find their hearts disposed to enquire what has America done for the benefit of mankind?
Let our answer be this: America, with the same voice which spoke herself into existence as a nation, proclaimed to mankind the inextinguishable rights of human nature, and the only lawful foundations of government. America, in the assembly of nations, since her admission among them, has invariably, though often fruitlessly, held forth to them the hand of honest friendship, of equal freedom, of generous reciprocity.
She has uniformly spoken among them, though often to heedless and often to disdainful ears, the language of equal liberty, of equal justice, and of equal rights.
She has, in the lapse of nearly half a century, without a single exception, respected the independence of other nations while asserting and maintaining her own.
She has abstained from interference in the concerns of others, even when conflict has been for principles to which she clings, as to the last vital drop that visits the heart.
She has seen that probably for centuries to come, all the contests of that Aceldama the European world, will be contests of inveterate power, and emerging right.
Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be.
But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy.
She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all.
She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.
She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example.
She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom.
The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force....
She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit....
[America's] glory is not dominion, but liberty. Her march is the march of the mind. She has a spear and a shield: but the motto upon her shield is, Freedom, Independence, Peace. This has been her Declaration: this has been, as far as her necessary intercourse with the rest of mankind would permit, her practice."

[ScimitarXEdge]

I would have covered the Soraya/Amanullah apologetics issue but I had t meeting at work and had to wrap things up quickly lol.

[Baygham]

With due amusement to watch a self proclaim “American” who don’t give a “**** about Afghanistan” at work to further a repressive, barbaric paki creatures gang Taliban… reminds me of Mushraf 90s remark “Afghan people are like that.” Yea we afghan ought to allow Pakistan trained Mullah to police our moral behavior…instead of mullah work on propagating the faith through active debate and written persuasion. (As a Muslim raised in a liberal Democracy, I know I’ve nothing to worry about, for the case for religious belief is even stronger in a free society. I’ve chosen to be a Muslim…instead of born Muslim---est 300000 Afghans convert to Christianity during Taliban rule… lee then 2% of Iranian in Volayat E Feqi attending mosque.) Even more comically is the idea insanity we witness over Qouran burning is a reaction to west—(more then 40 Muslim Afghan and Swede, a Norwegian, a Rumanian and four Nepalese security guards killed for for the rage of burning of the Koran by American religious extremists in Florida, the USA-)…just as tens of Muslim got killed during Danish cartoons protests—no wonder Muslim critics accuse us of not knowing how to live peacefully among one another…but for sake of argument… If during one evening I were to be bold enough to venture into territory renowned for violent crime, and were subsequently found dead in a gutter the following morning, does my irresponsible behavior excuse the murderers? Would you have the judge announce… “Considering the foolish irresponsibility displayed by the deceased, I hereby sentence the defendant – Haji Gul Khan – to one month good behavior and an additional $30 worth of daffodils for Azmal’s grave…. I also sentence Azmal’s entire family (the Danish and American people) to 5 years imprisonment for having allowed such irresponsible mentality in their home.” Sound absurd? I hope so, for it’s a perfection depiction of your nonexistent argument.


Ps: “Kandahar rebellion when Soraya was unveiled” interestingly I’m reading “Afghanistan dar Hahd e Halhazrat Amanullah khan” by Fazil Ghani Mojadidi oddly descendent of Hazrat e ShorBazar Mojadidi--- first mullah giving Fetwa to rebel against Ghazi Amanullah....its mention in page 219…that British secret service fake nude photo of Malekah Soraya…speared across Kandahar… also mention of Times article… January 16 1929 which clearly state rebellion against Shah Amanullah(may god bless his soul) were architected by British.

Dear Azmal: "khar dha kheedh pa khurak sa poheegi". You are not going to make them understand anything. These second generation american pashtoons, God knows what has happened to them growing up, to so disillusion them from the society that has sheltered them and their parents and subsequently has allowed them to prosper as one of its own; has nontheless created a venemous breed not altogether unique to the pashtoon but widespread amongst other second generation muslims, too lazy to contribute to society and too eager to jump the jihadi bandwagon. They do not understand or choose to not understand what threatens to mess with their 'house of cards'. A fragile attempt to reconcile the duality of illogical love(they see as muslim) at home with purity outside(seen as kafir).
Dont waste your time on these, focus your energy on the millions in watan all too eager to shed the yoke of despair and servitude.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Dear Azmal: "khar dha kheedh pa khurak sa poheegi". You are not going to make them understand anything. These second generation american pashtoons, God knows what has happened to them growing up, to so disillusion them from the society that has sheltered them and their parents and subsequently has allowed them to prosper as one of its own; has nontheless created a venemous breed not altogether unique to the pashtoon but widespread amongst other second generation muslims, too lazy to contribute to society and too eager to jump the jihadi bandwagon. They do not understand or choose to not understand what threatens to mess with their 'house of cards'. A fragile attempt to reconcile the duality of illogical love(they see as muslim) at home with purity outside(seen as kafir).
Dont waste your time on these, focus your energy on the millions in watan all too eager to shed the yoke of despair and servitude.

LOL Baygham you never fail to divert focus from the ACTUAL SUBJECT and start making attacks at the POSTER rather than REFUTING their points.


and and by the way , the millions in Watan? The Same Millions you referred to as Misogynist rapists and sexual predators to Faye, little over a month ago?:

The reason you get disparaged isn't because of some moronic over simplified caricacture you have of Kafir/Mumin dichotomies; but by how you apply such sniveling and deceitful tactics like the described to support a meritless point.

Do yourself a favor, take your Taqwacores and your love for the British Raj and seek a cliff.

Your problem is that you don't present logic based arguments; did you think we'd be convinced by smearing others character and emotional appeals alone?


Oh and to answer your question that you're so perplexed about ....it's because "we know its flaws and dont want others to be beguiled by it like our parents were" ..DING DING.

[ScimitarXEdge]

so is Azmal trying to say that the british concocted these pictures? They pasted Soraya's head with Amanullah on a French woman's body. hehe

What can be gathered here is that Amanullah apologetics is merely an desperate exercise in Scapegoating. While it's true the British did in fact distribute the pictures; it was Amanullah , who was TAKING those pictures with the British, French, Germans and whoever else. In Afghan society this is called a form of "mordagawi". Apologists like Azmal need to ask themselves; why would such pictures be problematic for Afghans of that time period in the first place? If this was Queen Elizabeth, the British would be proud to have their women lent out to entertain other men something to hold meritably; that is what the lack of dignity for namous would lead one to do, something Afghan principles would acknowledge for the loathesome degeneracy it was. It wasn't the British who made the Afghans revolt; they only gave the fuel for it; it was Afghans own values and principles which were the galvanizing force here. For if the Afghans didn't think that whoring out the queen to be kissed and fondled by French and German men wearing skimpy attire was low, immoral and shameful, things would have turned out vastly different. It was Amanullah's own policies; own practices and own disgrace which lead to the revolution, no British hands necessary. At which paradoxically the reason Amanullah was revolted against was because he was EMULATING the cultural Colonization of the British. Nothing could be all the more bizarre here for people who are using the British scapegoat to defend Amanullah; that Amanullah himself was castigated because he was following the British ways!

And this ties into the previous topic; the Moralizing of a society upon it's members is nothing foreign manufactured or implanted; but has always existed within Afghan society by dint of it being an Afghan society; that is a normative feature of being Afghan.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Dear Azmal: "khar dha kheedh pa khurak sa poheegi". You are not going to make them understand anything. These second generation american pashtoons, God knows what has happened to them growing up, to so disillusion them from the society that has sheltered them and their parents and subsequently has allowed them to prosper as one of its own; has nontheless created a venemous breed not altogether unique to the pashtoon but widespread amongst other second generation muslims, too lazy to contribute to society and too eager to jump the jihadi bandwagon. They do not understand or choose to not understand what threatens to mess with their 'house of cards'. A fragile attempt to reconcile the duality of illogical love(they see as muslim) at home with purity outside(seen as kafir).
Dont waste your time on these, focus your energy on the millions in watan all too eager to shed the yoke of despair and servitude.

Off the zoloft again I see.

Baygham, your tired diversions are a cliched attempt to somehow explain failed ideologies that daddy taught you, but that you just cannot shake. Somehow, the transmogrification of your ideologies from communism to secularism to whatever other ism you choose to parasitize off of, has taken ahold of your common senses.

Regarding contribution, trust me, my work has contributed far more to Pashtun and American societies than all you have or will accomplish.

You are the child of a failed group of mad red hatters (located in the Quetta chowk behind Achekzai's dayraan) and have not benefited from your American education in any way.

The reason I see this?: Because you somehow continue to see jihadism hiding behind each logical statement.

Praytell, when did Michael Scheuer become a jihadi?

[ScimitarXEdge]

Barakzai Lala; Azmal doesn't love Afghanistan; he only pretends and adopts this facade of a Nationalist; which basically most Nationalists of this generation do. He poses as a "watanyar" to steer and lure it's people into the trappings of nefarious forces, namely the Imperialistic variety. He's a fifth column to the Nth degree.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Barakzai Lala; Azmal doesn't love Afghanistan; he only pretends and adopts this facade of a Nationalist; which basically most Nationalists of this generation do. He poses as a "watanyar" to steer and lure it's people into the trappings of nefarious forces, namely the Imperialistic variety. He's a fifth column to the Nth degree.

I think they are debunked enough at this point to begin to trivialize even when it comes to responding to their tired rhetoric. Its the same back and forth every day with these folks: Saudi raped my baby, Pakistan busted up my bike, Wataan deserves, the words of Eric Cartman, "mah authoritah." One of the fascinating outcomes of this thread itself is that they ventured into it. This means that they are preturbed by reality, pragmatism, and cold hard logic: namely, that the Afghans deserve the right to determine their own destiny, whatever it may be, free of any outsiders hand. They felt jarred enough to attempt a failed intervention.

They will continue to chase their tales, attempting to argue that obeisance to the outside western power is their "super cool", "secret" way to really benefit the "wataan" because, they, geniuses that they are, will somehow coopt the superpower to attack and destroy Pakistan.... and then, they will redirect it, like some super Nintendo red-white-blue joy stick towards rebuilding Afghanistan/Pashtunistan into PashtunVegas or PashtunYork like some SimCity game. Really Baygham, are you this infantile? Trust me, I can see just by simple interactions here with you that you red hatters aren't anywhere near as smart as those feisty sons o' Isaac in Tel Aviv. The notion that you, Toramana, and Azmal will somehow "coopt" and "trick" America into A) destroying your enemies and B) building a ton of cool stuff for you and C) then packing up and leaving is how realistic???

Waiiit for iiit, wait for iiiit,... here it comes... except the responses to utilize the following vocabulary:
Paki, Arabophile, Neanderthaal, Jihadi, second generation, Wataan, sadness, destitute but yearning for pot, crack, and whisky... etc.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Well ultimately with people like Azmal and Baygham; is that they only pretend to be Nationalistic and care about Pashtuns as a form of emotional blackmail; they only pretend to be Nationalistic/Patriotic but in reality they want the culture of the British Raj to be revived as it was practiced by Amanullah Khan and other degenerate traitors.