Why do Afghani Pashtuns hate Pakistan?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

so how is karzai any different wrora?

i didnt say i like or support najib but compared him to zia ul haq.

Whats worse, Getting stabbed in the back and screwed by your brother or some hoodlum across the way? I expect more from our own, inordinatly more.

[graveyardofempires]

Hmm, deriding sources, coming from someone with exquisite diffulty supporting any of their arguments and making random arguments? Illogic is the last bastion of the ignorant.

However, I do not disagree with the general sentiment that Zia was no saint. He created this welfare state that requires being the "call girl" to nearly every world regional power all at the same time. That however does not let Najib... who decided to take on the name Najib ul lah a hero.

i just dont want to waste my time to discredite your faulty sources.
so you just have to believe me on that or not.

reality is stranger than fiction.

[Admin Khan]

Admin, this is exactly what im saying (apart from your refuted claims), i agree that we are all the same, and borders cannot seperate blood, it seems you have the wrong end of the stick admin wrora if you read my posts i have not incited or meant to make some childish pak pashtun vs afghan pashtun war, the only reason point this finger at me is because i ask unbiased questions or dont hold the afghan flag, i am constantly seeking knowledge i dont feel put down by someone proving me wrong in any shape or form i couldnt care less what people think of me on some internet website, afghans have this aggressive stance for defending a country that doesnt even want pashtuns in it (afghanistan) 60% of people would change it to khorasan if they had the slightest chance,

Alright, we are in agreement. I wasn't 'attacking' you personally, I just offered my dus pesos to the article you posted. And no, you are wrong, "60" percent of Afghans will not have the name changed to Khorasan, there is no such proof.

thers all this "the word afghan is sacred dont disrespect it, if you speak bad about afghanistan then you must be a kufaar!!" why do you think there are hardly any KP pashtuns on here??

That made me laugh. Pashtuns of KP dominate the staff, and they are the majority here. If you think Afghans of Afghanistan are the majority in PF, you are sadly mistaken. 80percent of our members are from Pakistan or even more. Members like Khyaal, Pir_Rokhan, Yusufzai Pakhtun, Esapzai, Feroz Afridi, Afridi, Wrayun, Roshina, BLS and I can continue naming user names all hail from Pashtunkhwa. Don't make such outrageous claims brother. It doesn't look good in a professional discussion.

and the ones that are are scared to voice there opinions incase of a verbal slaughter by a 100 afghans.

Again, nonsense. If anyone dares to attack anyone, I have at all times defended both sides equally. It is silly and dumb of me to even tell you this, but we have "2" members from Swat, if it makes you any happy, you can contact your "own" people next time you feel like you are being verbally harassed. Quite frankly you think Afghans hear will bite someone. No one "slaughters" anyone.

i have family on both sides and i totally wish for 1 single pashtun nation, we could really achieve alot, saying that though it can not be done with people being happy with being 40% of the population and people living in a fairy tale that Afghanistan will or can be a truely pashtun country by having a minority EVER, half the country is not even pashtun

I agree with you. I have sources that show Pashtuns are majority, however, that isn't the point. It appears to me as if you skimmed through my entire passage, all I am saying is we are one people. That is all. We shouldn't be upset that there are Afghans here.

the biggest thing thats pashtun about afghanistan is the name, people that truely want an independant state cannot be afghan nationilsts, granted i love winding afghans up as they are incredibly touchy touchy and psycho about anybody saying an atom worth of negatativity to it,

"winding up Afghans?", "Touchy"?, "Psycho"? I'll politely pull a big fat no comment.

but how can anybody expect respect when you blatently side with hindus over muslims, it would be better to say "its not the afghan people that side with hindus its the govt" but NO, afghans have this tunnel vision that Afghanistan is this angelic victim and a faultless nation that is in a mess solely because of Pakistan, granted there are involvments from Pakistan which attack pashtuns (which is why i dont side with pakistan) but why is it not an issue when afghan pashtuns give respect to sworn enemies of pashtuns i.e the Uzbeks,tajiks and whoever else is in afghanistan hate pashtun gutts

Manzareh, we are not racist. We have no problem with Tajik, Punjabi, Sindhi or Uzbek. We have problems with those people who wish ill for us. We have problems with those people who don't want us to succeed. We can't just generalize. Just to let you know, not every Punjabi and not every Tajik hates you. You can't speak on behalf of all Afghans, not all Afghans subscribe to the thoughts above. Let's not make baseless predictions.

and then have the nerve to say AFGHAN AFGHAN AFGHAN like everybody in the world wants to be an afghan, i certainly would not i bet more than half of the population of pashtuns in the world would not why would i want the future generations to speak dari?? it would be the same making them speak Punjabi.

You are speaking nonsense now. If you don't want to be considered an Afghan, no one has an AK-47 to your head, nor has an Afghan from PF knocked on your door preaching Afghanism. Oh, and not all Afghans speak Dari, Pashto is the national language. And, it would be of your best interest to know that, historically speaking, Pashtuns are known as ethnic Afghans. In fact, that language you speak with your Mom and Dad is still known as "Afghani". In Pakistan, according to BLS1919, Ijaz Yusufzai and many others who reside in Pashtunkhwa, in your revenue records, you are listed as an Afghan. When your Pakistan was being founded, Choudhoury Rehmat Ali based the "A" in Pakistan on the term Afghania, that is exactly what the "A" in Pakistan represents. NWFP had a proposed name of Afghania, did you ever wonder why? Because it's inhabitants are considered ethnic Afghans. Now I am going to try to be as concise as possible, no one and I mean no one is imposing the term Afghan on you. Whether you like it or not, history can't be changed. If you want to be known as a Sikh, Latino or Pathan, that is your free will. The minute you claim you are a Pashtun, expect to see the word Afghan being use interchangeably. It's your history my friend. We have members from Swat who don't want to be called Afghan, and we have a handful of members from Swat(Khan Gul, Tor_Khan etc)who consider themselves 100% Afghan.

Admin jaan nomatta how much you try to defend afghanistans interests you will never be able to justfy the govt allience with america and you cant claim that america is there for the benefit of pashtuns,

I never justified the govt alliance with America, in fact, I made no mention of it. I hardly even expressed my political opinion, all I did was refute the article based on comment principles that exist in Afghanistan. My political opinion is something I don't think I ever expressed.

never believe that..the northern allience is becoming stronger its already recognised as afghanistans national army by major people around the world, who are the northern allience? zamoong khpal khalak dee?? i
think not, as soon as america and nato leave, if the Taliban arnt strong enough to fight the northern allience then im sorry to say afghanistan will be a persian nation,

The above is your opinion. If you ever have time, leave the UK and visit the South and then ask yourself if it will become a Persianized nation. :-)

my point is to prove afghanistan is a currupt govt, pakistan is a curropt govt, afghanistan will never be pashtuns because of the overwhelming persians, pakistan will never be a pashtun nation because of the same
statistic, persians dont want to be pashtun yet pashtuns are happy speaking dari.. sometimes in life you have to leave something behind in order to gain something better,the only way forword is to leave your
attachments with afghanistan and pakistan and work to words a new zmaka.

What I don't understand is the reason why you are telling me Afghanistan is corrupt. I obviously already know that, and no where did I defend the Afghan government. Please carefully read my previous post my brother.

[Admin Khan]

Salaam Khan Saib,

I would agree with a lot of what you say, and I have, as you have seen, personally felt the sting of this accusation on here. However, Najib of the KHAD, the Bull, as he was called, the KGB brutal agent, is hardly a hero of any sort and I ardently disagree with lionizing that killer.

Assalam-Alaikum Barakzai mashra,

No where did I glorify, or express support for Najibullah. What I said was something very general. I was speaking in a sense that,why should Pakistan have a say in who is the president of Afghanistan, and why was he elected? Do Afghans have a say in the presidency of the Pakistani president? Yes one can express distaste, but once can never go as far as saying "Why was he elected??" Afghanistan is a sovereign nation, and it can choose what it wants to do. She doesn't need our permission as American citizens, nor does she need the permission of Pakistani citizens.

I hope you understand my stance. If there is any other point of mine that you think deserves an elaboration, feel free to tell me wrora.

[Admin Khan]

Just so we are clear on the Najib issue, cause it seems to me as if many of you are having troubles comprehending the following, our respected Manzareh posted an article stating,

8. Afghanis let Najibullah (pro-Indian/Soviet) become president. Afghanistan let India support the Northern Alliance, & served as a proxy against Pak.

I responded with,

And you forget that ISI supported Taliban for their interest. You forget that Pakistan destabilized Afghanistan with it's policy towards the war-torn country. Najibullah became the president of his country. What in the world does that have to do with Islamabad? Do Afghans have a say in why Zardari became president? Did Najibullah kill Pashtuns of Swat or something? Or did he wish to unite us, and Islamabad was not happy of that? Which one is it brother? I am not even sure if this question pertains to Pashtun interests.

As you can clearly read, no where in the world did I express support for him. What I said is something very general and I tried to be as eloquent as possible. I, in general terms, asked a question which was "Do Afghans have a say in the presidency of Pakistan?" The answer is obviously no. So the same should apply to Pakistanis who have a history of meddling in our affairs for their strategic depth nonsense. Whether Najibullah was good or bad, let us Afghans handle and decide that. We don't want other people telling us what we need, Afghans know what they want. We don't need other countries telling a sovereign nation how they should sleep, walk or eat. That is all I was attempting to say, so let's refrain from swaying away from the main topic.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Assalam-Alaikum Barakzai mashra,

No where did I glorify, or express support for Najibullah. What I said was something very general. I was speaking in a sense that,why should Pakistan have a say in who is the president of Afghanistan, and why was he elected? Do Afghans have a say in the presidency of the Pakistani president? Yes one can express distaste, but once can never go as far as saying "Why was he elected??" Afghanistan is a sovereign nation, and it can choose what it wants to do. She doesn't need our permission as American citizens, nor does she need the permission of Pakistani citizens.

I hope you understand my stance. If there is any other point of mine that you think deserves an elaboration, feel free to tell me wrora.

wa alaykum salaam wa rahmathullah

I agree with it as you say it above in regard to regional and foreign interventionalism. God willing, the Afghans will, with their efforts, free themselves from all regional and super poweri nterventionalists of all stripes. It will take time, but after this is accomplished we will work together to help build an instrastructure to ensure we are never ensnared again by anyone.

[Azmal]

Whether his questions are legitimate or not; it's a sign of gross intellectual bankruptcy to merely shrug them off and disparage the questioner unless of course he's "loaded" or "leading" questioning. And then relying on "No True Scotsman" claims (look up Logical Fallacies: "No True Scotsman" for more details) on top of it all.

For someone who claims to value Critical Thinking this very Anti-Intellectual approach is unbecoming. You say you're educated and from an educated family but use such amateurish tactics. I expected more from you.

If you're so sure you're right and have confidence in the virtue of your causes, then Answer the questions, don't evade with some silly excuses.

Makhmood...its been long time....its quite absurd how you try to defend the gobbledygook. Pakistani Manzareh post is full of well-known errors of reasoning and full of fallacies in the broader, more technical sense. Ad Hominem, Appeal to Emotion and Appeal to Pity to just name a few, and yet you dire to fish for straightforward response to him?

[PakhtunWarrior]

I am from Laghman. All the "Pakistani" Pashtuns that I know are mostly from Pakhtunkhwa and none of them say "I am Pakistani." Most of them call themselves Afghan and some of them call themsels "Pashtuns". Now, I have nothing against my brothers and sisters on the other side of the invisible durrand line however, If a Pashtun calls himself a proud Pakistani... I find it very odd.

I can understand if you've been raised up in Punjab and can't understand a word of Pashto that you would call yourself a Pakistani but.. I find it abit odd if someone from Quetta or Waziristan or Pakhtunkhwa or anywhere else near Afghanistan would call himself a proud Paksitani. This is just my opinion.

[Manzareh]

^ ok so what your saying is the 30 million pashtuns in pakistan should throw there pakistani passports in the bin? forget whether they should regard themselves as afghans or not forget about should and should not nonsence, the FACT is that they are in Pakistan they are not in Afghanistan, you want them to become part of a non existant Pashtunistan or non existant part of Afghanistan? it makes no sence..yes the region was once upon a time afghanistan but it is NOT now. or is it??

[graveyardofempires]

^ ok so what your saying is the 30 million pashtuns in pakistan should throw there pakistani passports in the bin? forget whether they should regard themselves as afghans or not forget about should and should not nonsence, the FACT is that they are in Pakistan they are not in Afghanistan, you want them to become part of a non existant Pashtunistan or non existant part of Afghanistan? it makes no sence..yes the region was once upon a time afghanistan but it is NOT now. or is it??

yes it is still part of Afghanistan
you are living in a fog.

if it wasnt part of Afghanistan and people werent going to rejoin Afghanistan there wouldnt be a notion pukhtunkhwa and Lar Aw Bar Afghan.

you may try to margenalize us as much as you want but no one,i mean no one will come in the way of our destiny.

[graveyardofempires]

I am from Laghman. All the "Pakistani" Pashtuns that I know are mostly from Pakhtunkhwa and none of them say "I am Pakistani." Most of them call themselves Afghan and some of them call themsels "Pashtuns". Now, I have nothing against my brothers and sisters on the other side of the invisible durrand line however, If a Pashtun calls himself a proud Pakistani... I find it very odd.

I can understand if you've been raised up in Punjab and can't understand a word of Pashto that you would call yourself a Pakistani but.. I find it abit odd if someone from Quetta or Waziristan or Pakhtunkhwa or anywhere else near Afghanistan would call himself a proud Paksitani. This is just my opinion.

saal dey yara
der laghmanyan nedey delta?

[PakhtunWarrior]

^ ok so what your saying is the 30 million pashtuns in pakistan should throw there pakistani passports in the bin? forget whether they should regard themselves as afghans or not forget about should and should not nonsence, the FACT is that they are in Pakistan they are not in Afghanistan, you want them to become part of a non existant Pashtunistan or non existant part of Afghanistan? it makes no sence..yes the region was once upon a time afghanistan but it is NOT now. or is it??

Wrora, I have never said anything about passports. They should keep their Pakistani passports. If you want to start talking about passports: I was born in Afghanistan, I lived in Holland and i now have a Dutch passport and now i live in Birmingham, UK. Now, does this mean i am Dutch because i have a dutch passport? No.

Example: If my grandad was born in India, my dad was born in France and i was born in France too, do you really think i would consider myself as French? I would have Indian blood in me, not French. Therefore I don't see any reason why i should call myself French just because i live in France. This is just an example, Im Afghan lol.

I am saying I find it odd when Pashtuns consider themselves Pakistani, but i find it understandable if someone from Punjab calls himself a Pakistani. At the end of the day, they have Afghan blood running through their veins.

saal dey yara
der laghmanyan nedey delta?

Birmingham ke laghmanyan der neshta but there are a lot of Pashtuns here now. When I hardly saw any Pashtuns but now it is full of them lol

[BLS_1919v2.0]

^ ok so what your saying is the 30 million pashtuns in pakistan should throw there pakistani passports in the bin? forget whether they should regard themselves as afghans or not forget about should and should not nonsence, the FACT is that they are in Pakistan they are not in Afghanistan, you want them to become part of a non existant Pashtunistan or non existant part of Afghanistan? it makes no sence..yes the region was once upon a time afghanistan but it is NOT now. or is it??

No one said that....just like Palestine is not a state yet, just like Chechnya is no longer a state, so is the case with Pashtunkhwa. Inshallah if Pashtuns get their heads together it too will be united with their people in Afghanistan. How hypocritical of you. You clamour for kashmir or Palestine both of whom are not states at all, in fact they didn't even exist as nation-states, yet you can't give the same to your own who were a part of Afghanistan. Half, if not more, patriots/heroes of Afghanistan were from Pashtunkhwa. Why do you overlook such things?

[Manzareh]

Alright, we are in agreement. I wasn't 'attacking' you personally, I just offered my dus pesos to the article you posted. And no, you are wrong, "60" percent of Afghans will not have the name changed to Khorasan, there is no such proof..

Ok fine, do you hide the fact that lets just say "a great deal" amount of people from afghanistan (non pashtuns) dont want it to be a sole pashtun country and this "great deal" is persians.

That made me laugh. Pashtuns of KP dominate the staff, and they are the majority here. If you think Afghans of Afghanistan are the majority in PF, you are sadly mistaken. 80percent of our members are from Pakistan or even more. Members like Khyaal, Pir_Rokhan, Yusufzai Pakhtun, Esapzai, Feroz Afridi, Afridi, Wrayun, Roshina, BLS and I can continue naming user names all hail from Pashtunkhwa. Don't make such outrageous claims brother. It doesn't look good in a professional discussion.

you mean youl only let pro afghanistan govt staff here, funny how you wont have someone that doesnt side with afghanistan here, laugh all you want but i see past your teeth. am i the only pashtun that doesnt want to be part of afghanistan? i can assure you i am not. why then isnt there more people like me here if you havnt ousted them out.

Again, nonsense. If anyone dares to attack anyone, I have at all times defended both sides equally. It is silly and dumb of me to even tell you this, but we have "2" members from Swat, if it makes you any happy, you can contact your "own" people next time you feel like you are being verbally harassed..

i'll be honest with you, anybody that attacks me on here verbally gets it back from me twice as hard. i dont feel that i am being verbally harassed, i feel people are trying to yes, to me its just funny and im certainly not going to lose any sleep over it. rather, what i say is attacked and the points i make, as i said before if you can prove my questions or statements false then id thank you for it, i dont see it as me losing anything, if im wrong and someone corrects me then i see it as an improvment of my knowledge whether it be some over sensative afghan or a pakistani, your self, someone from swat or whoever, to be honest with you thers plenty of sikh speaking pashtuns on the internet posing themselves as pashtuns and i know 1 personally that admited it to me once so whether people say there from here or there is irrelevant they might be anyone from anyware.

Quite frankly you think Afghans hear will bite someone. No one "slaughters" anyone.
I agree with you. I have sources that show Pashtuns are majority, however, that isn't the point. It appears to me as if you skimmed through my entire passage..

firstly i didnt skim through your passage. i read it even though i didnt reply back to every single sentance. secoundly, since you said it could you find me a source where the pashtuns are the majority in afghanistan please.

all I am saying is we are one people. That is all. We shouldn't be upset that there are Afghans here.
"winding up Afghans?", "Touchy"?, "Psycho"? I'll politely pull a big fat no comment.

well seems you skipped the part of my post were i said the same thing, that we are one people, hence we need a pashtunistan and leave the lands of persian and punjabyaan.

Manzareh, we are not racist. We have no problem with Tajik, Punjabi, Sindhi or Uzbek. We have problems with those people who wish ill for us. We have problems with those people who don't want us to succeed. We can't just generalize. Just to let you know, not every Punjabi and not every Tajik hates you. You can't speak on behalf of all Afghans, not all Afghans subscribe to the thoughts above. Let's not make baseless predictions..

ok if the predictions are baseless, you as being the admin here, have you ever EVER seen a post from an afghan saying anything positive about punjabies here? id like to know.

if your honestly telling me the MAJORITY of afghans in this forum dont act in a racist manner against the indics of pakistan then im afraid to say you turn a blind eye and i guess your right for saying my definition for the hate of pakistanis here is baseless. your telling me the norm from this forum isnt people saying death to pakistan, a kufar nation, we will side with the mushriqs over the munafiqs etc etc etc

You are speaking nonsense now. If you don't want to be considered an Afghan, no one has an AK-47 to your head, nor has an Afghan from PF knocked on your door preaching Afghanism. ..

really?? so an afghan in this forum doesnt mind when a pashtun from KP says he is a pakistani?? (which is the technical truth and the passport he has)..can a KP pashtun utter the words "im a pakistani pashtun" without getting hit with lyrics and curses from every angle...i dont need a responce but just be honest.

Oh, and not all Afghans speak Dari, Pashto is the national language. And, it would be of your best interest to know that, historically speaking, Pashtuns are known as ethnic Afghans. In fact, that language you speak with your Mom and Dad is still known as "Afghani". In Pakistan, according to BLS1919, Ijaz Yusufzai and many others who reside in Pashtunkhwa, in your revenue records, you are listed as an Afghan. ..

i never said all afghans speak dari, i made it a point that it is widely excepted in a "pashtun country" i dont need a lesson in history bro i know the history of afghanistan and where the words came from, however it doesnt change the fact that afghanistan isnt a truely pashtun country if it was there wudnt be such a MASSIVE percentage of different races despite what you call the country or what you give it, to the world it is not known as a pashtun country its known as a mixed one. then again this is my opinion and you are entitled to yours. NO the 30 million pashtuns in pakistan are not listed as afghans they are listed as pakistanis.

When your Pakistan was being founded, Choudhoury Rehmat Ali based the "A" in Pakistan on the term Afghania, that is exactly what the "A" in Pakistan represents. NWFP had a proposed name of Afghania, did you ever wonder why? Because it's inhabitants are considered ethnic Afghans. Now I am going to try to be as concise as possible, no one and I mean no one is imposing the term Afghan on you. Whether you like it or not, history can't be changed. If you want to be known as a Sikh, Latino or Pathan, that is your free will. The minute you claim you are a Pashtun, expect to see the word Afghan being use interchangeably...

Listen boss, its not my pakistan, but dont you see what your saying your speaking in the past my friend forget names "it was going to be called this and this is were the letter A comes from" i agree with you they are considered ethnic afghans BUT for the millionth time they are not in Afghanistan are they!? i can work for Microsoft and then move to Macintosh and then say to people in Macintosh that im a Microsoft worker it wont make a difference as the bottom line is im a Macintosh worker..i can easily say to hel with Macintosh but then id be jobless and be a bum. i agree im an Afghan because of the root of the word but im not an afghani and neither is anyone in KP until it joins with afghanistan then it will be a whole new story..comprende?

It's your history my friend. We have members from Swat who don't want to be called Afghan, and we have a handful of members from Swat(Khan Gul, Tor_Khan etc)who consider themselves 100% Afghan.
I never justified the govt alliance with America, in fact, I made no mention of it. I hardly even expressed my political opinion, all I did was refute the article based on comment principles that exist in Afghanistan. My political opinion is something I don't think I ever expressed.
The above is your opinion. If you ever have time, leave the UK and visit the South and then ask yourself if it will become a Persianized nation. :-)

fair enough

What I don't understand is the reason why you are telling me Afghanistan is corrupt. I obviously already know that, and no where did I defend the Afghan government. Please carefully read my previous post my brother.

If afghanistan is currupt and so is pakistan then we are doomed to belong to pakistan or afghanistan right? so why all the afghan patriotism from a blatent curupt country?? the only solution is Pakhtunistan.

Cheers any merry Christmas.

[Manzareh]

I am saying I find it odd when Pashtuns consider themselves Pakistani, but i find it understandable if someone from Punjab calls himself a Pakistani. At the end of the day, they have Afghan blood running through their veins.

why do you understand if a punjabi calls him self a paksitani?? after all he is an Indian is he not?? he has indian blood running through his vains so what gives him the right to say he's a pakistani when he parents and grandparents were in a place named india 60 years ago. its the same thing with pashtuns and afghanistan my friend, how can you not see this.