Why do Afghani Pashtuns hate Pakistan?

[graveyardofempires]

Poor afghans are not bothered about anti-pakistani crap, they are busy earning for thereselves in pakistan. But online pseudo-pashtuns from west here are wasting their time by propagating hate and voilence. They are acting like losers and are giving wrong message to the world that afghanis are losers.

lar o bar yo pashtun.

sarcasm,contradictions and ignorance in your 3 sentences.

[Toramana]

Remember one other thing; these non-Pashtuns (Punjabis -Siraikis, etc.) are very crafty and master exploiters...They would pitch you against your own brother by exploiting your sentiments but on your back they would say "look at these gullible/stupid/akhrot Pathans, how easily can they be fooled" and would laugh at you....

I myself received a private message from a gentleman here telling me Wrayun is that person and that person...Actually, he wanted to pitch me against Wrayun....


Ok, if you have some disagreement with your brother, clash with him but keep that limited to your own house...If you are degrading your brother and your own people, that wouldn't earn you any dignity, any respect...the same people that clap to you on your face will talk low of you in private....

For us, Pashtun identity is primary and foremost compared to every other identity...Islam or human nobility is not tied to Pakistaniyath.

[Admin Khan]

Assalam-Alaikum,

Before anyone attacks me personally id like to state that i am not a supporter of the afghan government or the paksitani one neither am i against them, i see afghanistan being a united nation with Tajiks,Uzbeks,Hazaras,Pashtuns etc...JUST AS paksitan is a united nation with Punjabis,Sindhis,Balouch,Pashtuns..

Fair enough.

Afghans claim that some Pashtun people in KP are slaves of Punjabyaan,

Not all Afghans claim that. When Afghans do claim that, they are speaking of those Pashtuns who serve in ISI and are indirectly working on the destruction of Pashtuns. I am an Afghan from Afghanistan, I have on many occasions claimed(from the bottom of my heart)that I love Pashtuns of Pashtunkhwa, and I see no difference between a Pashtun from Swat or Jalalabad. We speak the same language, we follow the same culture, and we share the same history. It is politics that have divided us, be aware.

weras i see that as a ludicrous comment as much as saying Pashtuns in Afghanistan are slaves of the persians as sworn enemies of pashtuns such as Uzbek are allowed in the government that hate pashtuns more than punjabis do.

Manzareh Jaan, I already elaborated on this above. However, If 1 uneducated Afghan claims that all Pashtuns of Pashtunkhwa are slaves, you would have a right to be offensive, but don't think we all think in such way. Also, don' retaliate immediately. We should learn to be a bit more open minded. Put it this way, once upon a time, you yourself was part of Afghanistan. You don't have to look under the rug to pull out points to create further disunity. It's just not helpful.

Pashtuns have seats in the pakistan govt but if the govt of afghansitan was run by Uzbeks or other persians i doubt pashtuns wud be given any positions.

Again, unnecessary. For the sake of whatever God you believe in, please do not begin a Afghan Pashtun vs Pakistani Pashtun nonsense here. We are all the same people. If you become a doctor in Pakistan, I would hug you for your accompolishment. Many Afghans are frustrated because they believe the current policy of Pakistan is "Not to see Pashtuns unite" Manzareh, think about 60million Pashtuns under one banner. Just think about it. Imagine what we can do, imagine how many Abdul Ahad Momand, Abdul Qadeer Khans we can produce.

Afghans have sided with india over pakistan and still there are refugees in pakistan giving afghans shelter, some afghans even brought guns, drugs into pakistan but wernt kicked out, most of afghan supplies come from Pakistan, we all know that.

Can you provide me 1 statistic that proves your aforementioned claim? Afghans at this point, will appreciate aid of any country. We aren't dumb Manzareh,we know that India's aid comes with a price, and so does Pakistans. Keep the Pakistani vs India rivalry to the side. If India wants a build a school in a place where there is no school, expect the local villagers to be happy.

1. Why was Afghanistan last to recognize Pakistan as an independent country?

They had half of Afghanistan's population. What do you expect? to give their people up without a fight? I hope you know even the Pakistani govt recognizes you, Manzareh, as an ethnic Afghan. It's sad for Afghans that 1 sold out king under duress lost half of our population. Also, Pashtuns of Pashtunkhwa were never given a chance to choose Afghanistan during the referendum. It was either India or Pakistan. If they would have given Pashtuns an option to unite with India, Pakistan or Afghanistan, and had the Pashtuns chosen Pakistan over Afghanistan, fair and square. Rest assure that Afghanistan would have refrained from everything they did.

2. Why did Afghanistan provide Air bases to Indian Air force in 1971 India-Pak war?

Probably because they were aware of the anti-Pashtun policies they had, and to weaken Pakistan. 2010, I am sure all you have to do is visit Swat or Waziristan to find out how my people were treated by your armed forces. Go ahead, ask Khan Gul. He presently resides in Swat, and is one of our senior members. He will tell you how my people were treated. Pashtuns have been abused, Afghanistan wanted to unite them, Pakistan couldn't give them up since they had to win wars with their blood[Kashmir liberation].What can I say, we serve as political tools for regional powers at this point.

3. Why is there heavy Indian intelligence presence in Afghanistan, even now?

Propaganda. Provide proof for this claim. I already know your going to begin quoting Pakistani newspaper who claim India is tarnishing their plans for strategic depth in Afghanistan. Brother Manzareh, Afghanistan is sovereign. If Pashtuns of Pakistan refuse to join Afghanistan, if Pashtuns of Pakistan join the Pakistani military to defend Pakistan against Afghanistan, expect the Afghans to create their own military ties with India and other nations. My personal opinion is that we, as Pashtuns, should unite with each other and never go to war against each other. It seems to me as if the brainwashing of Pashtuns is inevitable at this point.

4. Why did Afghanistan generally and strongly disagree with Pres. Musharraf's proposal of fencing the Afg-Pak border to check movement of terrorists?

What kind of ridiculous, stupid and dumb question is that? Honestly, you are asking such a question on a Pashtun forum? Obviously because they were dividing Pashtun tribes, Pashtun families, and Pashtun land. Pashtuns from both side, lar and bar, fiercely said no to a border. Do you wish to see a Pashtun from Swat gain visa to visit Kandahar? No Pashtun will never tolerate a border. Manzareh, are you aware of ground realities, ground realities are there are families on both sides. They are cousins who live a mile away. We are the same people Manzareh, try to understand that. We aren't separate ethnic groups, visit Southern Afghanistan and Pashtunkhwa and you will understand the force behind my perspective.

(They even tried to alley the fear that common/displaced people will be restricted on either side, by providing them computer biometric ID cards. But the check post guards on the Afgh side simply tore the cards when presented, calling them non sense!)

why did they tear them? Because they are Pashtuns and we feel insulted when someone asks us for an ID card to travel to our land and our families and our people. We never had it before, and we wish to not have it now. I don't want Tor_Khan, Toramana or Baygham to have an ID when traveling to Kabul. It's their land. Pa khair jhey rasey.

5. What about how Pashtun nationalists try to break up Pak for a greater Pashtunistan. They tried to entice Pak Pashtuns to break away from Pak, but to no avail.

Again, they wish to unite the Pashtuns. Whether it be a united Pashtunistan[which is hell for Persians and Punjabis]both Persians and Punjabis can't wish to see us Pashtuns united. That is why by the force of education, they even have you posting on Pf, why Pashtuns of lar and bar opposed a border. I hope you know it was both sides that opposed the border.

It was ANP[A Pashtun party] that resisted the border fencing. I am even shocked that I have to explain it's negative implications.

the nationalist leader of Pashtuns of Pakistan denounced the border-fencing idea as a sinister conspiracy to further divide Pakhtuns living on both sides of the Durand Line.

Source.

6. Pak gave 7 million Afghan Pashtuns shelter at the time of the Soviet war, & there are still Afghan Pashtuns in Pak today. What did Afghan Pashtuns do for Pashtuns East of the Durand Line in 1921 & 1948?

Pak did not give us anything. It was our people who gave us a place to stay. It was the generous and humble Pashtuns of Peshawar, Swat, Swabi who gave us a place to stay. And, if such day ever occurs on Pashtuns of the other side of the line, I assure that we will reciprocate. In fact, we already have. There are already hundreds of families from Pashtunkhwa who move to Afghanistan to either combat poverty, or natural disasters. We are the same people Manzareh, we shouldn't have to explain ourselves. If you are ever in need, I will sleep outside and give you my place just so you can sleep home at night. Our forefathers fought for our unity, let's not impose borders on a line we Pashtuns of both sides do not recognize.

8. Afghanis let Najibullah (pro-Indian/Soviet) become president. Afghanistan let India support the Northern Alliance, & served as a proxy against Pak.

And you forget that ISI supported Taliban for their interest. You forget that Pakistan destabilized Afghanistan with it's policy towards the war-torn country. Najibullah became the president of his country. What in the world does that have to do with Islamabad? Do Afghans have a say in why Zardari became president? Did Najibullah kill Pashtuns of Swat or something? Or did he wish to unite us, and Islamabad was not happy of that? Which one is it brother? I am not even sure if this question pertains to Pashtun interests.

9. Afghanistan let India stir up proxy wars in Pak in the form of the TTP & BLA

Proof? Oh, for the record, Pakistan began it's proxy game with the Taliban. Remember? Dear Manzareh, Afghanistan has not controlled it's foreign affairs for the longest. It's not like Afghanistan is as developed as Germany and here we are having an anti-policy towards Pakistan. We just finished war, and at this point, all we wanted was to sleep at night without hearing bomb sounds.

10. They instilled a pro-Indian Pashtun (Karzai) who's the biggest drug trafficker

Yup, he is pro-Indian because he spoke out against the FCR in FATA, he is pro-Indian because he spoke out against a border or fence that can divide Pashtuns. He is pro-Indian because obviously he is a Pashtun who wishes to unite Pashtuns. Pacha Khan was also an agent, remember?

[Master Khan]

there is nothing PAK about Pakistan, they call themselfs Muslims but when you watch news, videos of them then you will realise that these people are ignorant, courrpt and stupid and that is why this country is failing.

[khyaal]

LOL. I thought Mnzareh was a Pashtun(afghan). Just another Paki imposter.

[graveyardofempires]

saying we hate pakistanis or people living in this country is a big word
but surely cant stand what this hypocrite nation stands for which seperation of pashtuns/muslims and being a proxy of british raj and no america and israel

[Manzareh]

Assalam-Alaikum,


Fair enough.
Not all Afghans claim that. When Afghans do claim that, they are speaking of those Pashtuns who serve in ISI and are indirectly working on the destruction of Pashtuns. I am an Afghan from Afghanistan, I have on many occasions claimed(from the bottom of my heart)that I love Pashtuns of Pashtunkhwa, and I see no difference between a Pashtun from Swat or Jalalabad. We speak the same language, we follow the same culture, and we share the same history. It is politics that have divided us, be aware.
Manzareh Jaan, I already elaborated on this above. However, If 1 uneducated Afghan claims that all Pashtuns of Pashtunkhwa are slaves, you would have a right to be offensive, but don't think we all think in such way. Also, don' retaliate immediately. We should learn to be a bit more open minded. Put it this way, once upon a time, you yourself was part of Afghanistan. You don't have to look under the rug to pull out points to create further disunity. It's just not helpful.
Again, unnecessary. For the sake of whatever God you believe in, please do not begin a Afghan Pashtun vs Pakistani Pashtun nonsense here. We are all the same people. If you become a doctor in Pakistan, I would hug you for your accompolishment. Many Afghans are frustrated because they believe the current policy of Pakistan is "Not to see Pashtuns unite" Manzareh, think about 60million Pashtuns under one banner. Just think about it. Imagine what we can do, imagine how many Abdul Ahad Momand, Abdul Qadeer Khans we can produce.
Can you provide me 1 statistic that proves your aforementioned claim? Afghans at this point, will appreciate aid of any country. We aren't dumb Manzareh,we know that India's aid comes with a price, and so does Pakistans. Keep the Pakistani vs India rivalry to the side. If India wants a build a school in a place where there is no school, expect the local villagers to be happy.
They had half of Afghanistan's population. What do you expect? to give their people up without a fight? I hope you know even the Pakistani govt recognizes you, Manzareh, as an ethnic Afghan. It's sad for Afghans that 1 sold out king under duress lost half of our population. Also, Pashtuns of Pashtunkhwa were never given a chance to choose Afghanistan during the referendum. It was either India or Pakistan. If they would have given Pashtuns an option to unite with India, Pakistan or Afghanistan, and had the Pashtuns chosen Pakistan over Afghanistan, fair and square. Rest assure that Afghanistan would have refrained from everything they did.

Probably because they were aware of the anti-Pashtun policies they had, and to weaken Pakistan. 2010, I am sure all you have to do is visit Swat or Waziristan to find out how my people were treated by your armed forces. Go ahead, ask Khan Gul. He presently resides in Swat, and is one of our senior members. He will tell you how my people were treated. Pashtuns have been abused, Afghanistan wanted to unite them, Pakistan couldn't give them up since they had to win wars with their blood[Kashmir liberation].What can I say, we serve as political tools for regional powers at this point.

Propaganda. Provide proof for this claim. I already know your going to begin quoting Pakistani newspaper who claim India is tarnishing their plans for strategic depth in Afghanistan. Brother Manzareh, Afghanistan is sovereign. If Pashtuns of Pakistan refuse to join Afghanistan, if Pashtuns of Pakistan join the Pakistani military to defend Pakistan against Afghanistan, expect the Afghans to create their own military ties with India and other nations. My personal opinion is that we, as Pashtuns, should unite with each other and never go to war against each other. It seems to me as if the brainwashing of Pashtuns is inevitable at this point.
What kind of ridiculous, stupid and dumb question is that? Honestly, you are asking such a question on a Pashtun forum? Obviously because they were dividing Pashtun tribes, Pashtun families, and Pashtun land. Pashtuns from both side, lar and bar, fiercely said no to a border. Do you wish to see a Pashtun from Swat gain visa to visit Kandahar? No Pashtun will never tolerate a border. Manzareh, are you aware of ground realities, ground realities are there are families on both sides. They are cousins who live a mile away. We are the same people Manzareh, try to understand that. We aren't separate ethnic groups, visit Southern Afghanistan and Pashtunkhwa and you will understand the force behind my perspective.
why did they tear them? Because they are Pashtuns and we feel insulted when someone asks us for an ID card to travel to our land and our families and our people. We never had it before, and we wish to not have it now. I don't want Tor_Khan, Toramana or Baygham to have an ID when traveling to Kabul. It's their land. Pa khair jhey rasey.

Again, they wish to unite the Pashtuns. Whether it be a united Pashtunistan[which is hell for Persians and Punjabis]both Persians and Punjabis can't wish to see us Pashtuns united. That is why by the force of education, they even have you posting on Pf, why Pashtuns of lar and bar opposed a border. I hope you know it was both sides that opposed the border.

It was ANP[A Pashtun party] that resisted the border fencing. I am even shocked that I have to explain it's negative implications.
Source.

Pak did not give us anything. It was our people who gave us a place to stay. It was the generous and humble Pashtuns of Peshawar, Swat, Swabi who gave us a place to stay. And, if such day ever occurs on Pashtuns of the other side of the line, I assure that we will reciprocate. In fact, we already have. There are already hundreds of families from Pashtunkhwa who move to Afghanistan to either combat poverty, or natural disasters. We are the same people Manzareh, we shouldn't have to explain ourselves. If you are ever in need, I will sleep outside and give you my place just so you can sleep home at night. Our forefathers fought for our unity, let's not impose borders on a line we Pashtuns of both sides do not recognize.

And you forget that ISI supported Taliban for their interest. You forget that Pakistan destabilized Afghanistan with it's policy towards the war-torn country. Najibullah became the president of his country. What in the world does that have to do with Islamabad? Do Afghans have a say in why Zardari became president? Did Najibullah kill Pashtuns of Swat or something? Or did he wish to unite us, and Islamabad was not happy of that? Which one is it brother? I am not even sure if this question pertains to Pashtun interests.
Proof? Oh, for the record, Pakistan began it's proxy game with the Taliban. Remember? Dear Manzareh, Afghanistan has not controlled it's foreign affairs for the longest. It's not like Afghanistan is as developed as Germany and here we are having an anti-policy towards Pakistan. We just finished war, and at this point, all we wanted was to sleep at night without hearing bomb sounds.
Yup, he is pro-Indian because he spoke out against the FCR in FATA, he is pro-Indian because he spoke out against a border or fence that can divide Pashtuns. He is pro-Indian because obviously he is a Pashtun who wishes to unite Pashtuns. Pacha Khan was also an agent, remember?

Admin, this is exactly what im saying (apart from your refuted claims), i agree that we are all the same, and borders cannot seperate blood, it seems you have the wrong end of the stick admin wrora if you read my posts i have not incited or meant to make some childish pak pashtun vs afghan pashtun war, the only reason point this finger at me is because i ask unbiased questions or dont hold the afghan flag, i am constantly seeking knowledge i dont feel put down by someone proving me wrong in any shape or form i couldnt care less what people think of me on some internet website, afghans have this aggressive stance for defending a country that doesnt even want pashtuns in it (afghanistan) 60% of people would change it to khorasan if they had the slightest chance, thers all this "the word afghan is sacred dont disrespect it, if you speak bad about afghanistan then you must be a kufaar!!" why do you think there are hardly any KP pashtuns on here?? and the ones that are are scared to voice there opinions incase of a verbal slaughter by a 100 afghans. i have family on both sides and i totally wish for 1 single pashtun nation, we could really achieve alot, saying that though it can not be done with people being happy with being 40% of the population and people living in a fairy tale that Afghanistan will or can be a truely pashtun country by having a minority EVER, half the country is not even pashtun the biggest thing thats pashtun about afghanistan is the name, people that truely want an independant state cannot be afghan nationilsts, granted i love winding afghans up as they are incredibly touchy touchy and psycho about anybody saying an atom worth of negatativity to it, but how can anybody expect respect when you blatently side with hindus over muslims, it would be better to say "its not the afghan people that side with hindus its the govt" but NO, afghans have this tunnel vision that Afghanistan is this angelic victim and a faultless nation that is in a mess solely because of Pakistan, granted there are involvments from Pakistan which attack pashtuns (which is why i dont side with pakistan) but why is it not an issue when afghan pashtuns give respect to sworn enemies of pashtuns i.e the Uzbeks,tajiks and whoever else is in afghanistan hate pashtun gutts and then have the nerve to say AFGHAN AFGHAN AFGHAN like everybody in the world wants to be an afghan, i certainly would not i bet more than half of the population of pashtuns in the world would not why would i want the future generations to speak dari?? it would be the same making them speak Punjabi.

Admin jaan nomatta how much you try to defend afghanistans interests you will never be able to justfy the govt allience with america and you cant claim that america is there for the benefit of pashtuns, i will
never believe that..the northern allience is becoming stronger its already recognised as afghanistans national army by major people around the world, who are the northern allience? zamoong khpal khalak dee?? i
think not, as soon as america and nato leave, if the Taliban arnt strong enough to fight the northern allience then im sorry to say afghanistan will be a persian nation, you have a over seas puppet leader thats
main role is to marginalize the pashtuns in afghanistan, all these patriots that we see here were are they and how come a pashtun country has a anti pashtun leader?? its because nobody gives a damn and the pashtuns
arnt strong enough in any angle to handle afghanistan, the only way forword for pashtuns is to side the 12 million afghans with the 30 million pashtuns in pakistan, me and you and the other 1million migrants to SACRIFICE + leave this western home of ours and go back to our homeland, that way we will have architects,engineers,doctors people with basic manners that can teach our people the basics that its rude to spit in the middle of the street etc, to start a new econamy..the question is are you ready to leave your clean roads, your sanitation system, your weather, your internet, your food, your lifesyle for your people?? i think many are not, i am but i need motivation from my pashtun peers that redemption is going to happen i will leave all this behind as i know for a FACT that a pashtunistan will never have any roots without any SACRIFICE, all this "im defending afghanistan its well known nobody can F with me AFG for life" is nonsene. you think if a million educated people go to pakistan and afghanistan and teach the youth and uneducated people that education is the key and the way forword for a better life for your grandkids even maybe great grandkids is pashtunistan sooner or later we will have a great pashtunistan one day, it will never happen with people that only live for today and there own lifespan NEVER..sadly from the attitude of many here any everyware its a pride thing to rep were your from.

my point is to prove afghanistan is a currupt govt, pakistan is a curropt govt, afghanistan will never be pashtuns because of the overwhelming persians, pakistan will never be a pashtun nation because of the same
statistic, persians dont want to be pashtun yet pashtuns are happy speaking dari.. sometimes in life you have to leave something behind in order to gain something better,the only way forword is to leave your
attachments with afghanistan and pakistan and work to words a new zmaka.

i hope you understand my drift without breaking sentances down as you did.

W.salaam

[BLS_1919v2.0]

^^Manzareh your so-called questions are based on faulty history and even faultier assumptions. One only has to look at one of your nonsensical questions about Afghanistan not recognizing Pakistan. Obviously that would be like saying why did the Arab countries refuse to recognize Israel? Clearly they had a motivation to do so (so did Afghanistan). Before you go around with your nonsensical questions, go read a few things (outside of palestine-Israel). It is a tragedy that you know more about that then your own history.

[Toramana]

^^Manzareh your so-called questions are based on faulty history and even faultier assumptions. One only has to look at one of your nonsensical questions about Afghanistan not recognizing Pakistan. Obviously that would be like saying why did the Arab countries refuse to recognize Israel? Clearly they had a motivation to do so (so did Afghanistan). Before you go around with your nonsensical questions, go read a few things (outside of palestine-Israel). It is a tragedy that you know more about that then your own history.

BLS, that was what I was going to say...Unfortunately, the Pashtuns in diaspora think more in terms Muslim Ummah than as a Pashtun/Afghan nation or at least the balance between the two views is missing...

The radicalization on this board sometimes scares me. But then you have individuals (e.g. Cateya Sher) that flare up such emotions.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Assalam-Alaikum,


Fair enough.
Not all Afghans claim that. When Afghans do claim that, they are speaking of those Pashtuns who serve in ISI and are indirectly working on the destruction of Pashtuns. I am an Afghan from Afghanistan, I have on many occasions claimed(from the bottom of my heart)that I love Pashtuns of Pashtunkhwa, and I see no difference between a Pashtun from Swat or Jalalabad. We speak the same language, we follow the same culture, and we share the same history. It is politics that have divided us, be aware.
Manzareh Jaan, I already elaborated on this above. However, If 1 uneducated Afghan claims that all Pashtuns of Pashtunkhwa are slaves, you would have a right to be offensive, but don't think we all think in such way. Also, don' retaliate immediately. We should learn to be a bit more open minded. Put it this way, once upon a time, you yourself was part of Afghanistan. You don't have to look under the rug to pull out points to create further disunity. It's just not helpful.
Again, unnecessary. For the sake of whatever God you believe in, please do not begin a Afghan Pashtun vs Pakistani Pashtun nonsense here. We are all the same people. If you become a doctor in Pakistan, I would hug you for your accompolishment. Many Afghans are frustrated because they believe the current policy of Pakistan is "Not to see Pashtuns unite" Manzareh, think about 60million Pashtuns under one banner. Just think about it. Imagine what we can do, imagine how many Abdul Ahad Momand, Abdul Qadeer Khans we can produce.
Can you provide me 1 statistic that proves your aforementioned claim? Afghans at this point, will appreciate aid of any country. We aren't dumb Manzareh,we know that India's aid comes with a price, and so does Pakistans. Keep the Pakistani vs India rivalry to the side. If India wants a build a school in a place where there is no school, expect the local villagers to be happy.
They had half of Afghanistan's population. What do you expect? to give their people up without a fight? I hope you know even the Pakistani govt recognizes you, Manzareh, as an ethnic Afghan. It's sad for Afghans that 1 sold out king under duress lost half of our population. Also, Pashtuns of Pashtunkhwa were never given a chance to choose Afghanistan during the referendum. It was either India or Pakistan. If they would have given Pashtuns an option to unite with India, Pakistan or Afghanistan, and had the Pashtuns chosen Pakistan over Afghanistan, fair and square. Rest assure that Afghanistan would have refrained from everything they did.

Probably because they were aware of the anti-Pashtun policies they had, and to weaken Pakistan. 2010, I am sure all you have to do is visit Swat or Waziristan to find out how my people were treated by your armed forces. Go ahead, ask Khan Gul. He presently resides in Swat, and is one of our senior members. He will tell you how my people were treated. Pashtuns have been abused, Afghanistan wanted to unite them, Pakistan couldn't give them up since they had to win wars with their blood[Kashmir liberation].What can I say, we serve as political tools for regional powers at this point.

Propaganda. Provide proof for this claim. I already know your going to begin quoting Pakistani newspaper who claim India is tarnishing their plans for strategic depth in Afghanistan. Brother Manzareh, Afghanistan is sovereign. If Pashtuns of Pakistan refuse to join Afghanistan, if Pashtuns of Pakistan join the Pakistani military to defend Pakistan against Afghanistan, expect the Afghans to create their own military ties with India and other nations. My personal opinion is that we, as Pashtuns, should unite with each other and never go to war against each other. It seems to me as if the brainwashing of Pashtuns is inevitable at this point.
What kind of ridiculous, stupid and dumb question is that? Honestly, you are asking such a question on a Pashtun forum? Obviously because they were dividing Pashtun tribes, Pashtun families, and Pashtun land. Pashtuns from both side, lar and bar, fiercely said no to a border. Do you wish to see a Pashtun from Swat gain visa to visit Kandahar? No Pashtun will never tolerate a border. Manzareh, are you aware of ground realities, ground realities are there are families on both sides. They are cousins who live a mile away. We are the same people Manzareh, try to understand that. We aren't separate ethnic groups, visit Southern Afghanistan and Pashtunkhwa and you will understand the force behind my perspective.
why did they tear them? Because they are Pashtuns and we feel insulted when someone asks us for an ID card to travel to our land and our families and our people. We never had it before, and we wish to not have it now. I don't want Tor_Khan, Toramana or Baygham to have an ID when traveling to Kabul. It's their land. Pa khair jhey rasey.

Again, they wish to unite the Pashtuns. Whether it be a united Pashtunistan[which is hell for Persians and Punjabis]both Persians and Punjabis can't wish to see us Pashtuns united. That is why by the force of education, they even have you posting on Pf, why Pashtuns of lar and bar opposed a border. I hope you know it was both sides that opposed the border.

It was ANP[A Pashtun party] that resisted the border fencing. I am even shocked that I have to explain it's negative implications.
Source.

Pak did not give us anything. It was our people who gave us a place to stay. It was the generous and humble Pashtuns of Peshawar, Swat, Swabi who gave us a place to stay. And, if such day ever occurs on Pashtuns of the other side of the line, I assure that we will reciprocate. In fact, we already have. There are already hundreds of families from Pashtunkhwa who move to Afghanistan to either combat poverty, or natural disasters. We are the same people Manzareh, we shouldn't have to explain ourselves. If you are ever in need, I will sleep outside and give you my place just so you can sleep home at night. Our forefathers fought for our unity, let's not impose borders on a line we Pashtuns of both sides do not recognize.

And you forget that ISI supported Taliban for their interest. You forget that Pakistan destabilized Afghanistan with it's policy towards the war-torn country. Najibullah became the president of his country. What in the world does that have to do with Islamabad? Do Afghans have a say in why Zardari became president? Did Najibullah kill Pashtuns of Swat or something? Or did he wish to unite us, and Islamabad was not happy of that? Which one is it brother? I am not even sure if this question pertains to Pashtun interests.
Proof? Oh, for the record, Pakistan began it's proxy game with the Taliban. Remember? Dear Manzareh, Afghanistan has not controlled it's foreign affairs for the longest. It's not like Afghanistan is as developed as Germany and here we are having an anti-policy towards Pakistan. We just finished war, and at this point, all we wanted was to sleep at night without hearing bomb sounds.
Yup, he is pro-Indian because he spoke out against the FCR in FATA, he is pro-Indian because he spoke out against a border or fence that can divide Pashtuns. He is pro-Indian because obviously he is a Pashtun who wishes to unite Pashtuns. Pacha Khan was also an agent, remember?

Salaam Khan Saib,

I would agree with a lot of what you say, and I have, as you have seen, personally felt the sting of this accusation on here. However, Najib of the KHAD, the Bull, as he was called, the KGB brutal agent, is hardly a hero of any sort and I ardently disagree with lionizing that killer. He failed his field as a fellow physician and resorted to doing quiet a bit of harm as opposed to the "do no harm" mantra that doctors are taught to live by. If you call Omar a brutal agent, then Najib is about 10 Omars in 1 man and about 10 times as corruptible. He did not become president of our country, he was installed by the Soviets to save face.

I would also disagree that it is mere propaganda that RAW operates in Afghanistan:

http://books.google.com/books?id=nNT...igence&f=false

Here is Scheuer's piece in the diplomat with quiet a bit of detail about indian military involvement in the region and the antagonism this creates:

http://the-diplomat.com/2010/08/30/t...ar-flashpoint/

And regarding the comparison BLS made to Israel, once again it is unrealistic to assume that a large portion of our brethren across the Durand line view themselves as occupied in the manner of Palestine. There is no survey data to this effect and the statement lacks evidence.

Regarding whether the Pashtuns of KP were given a choice in the matter of being in Afghanistan vs Pakistan vs British India, I think that the general loss of support that one of my personal heroes, the Faqir of Ipi suffered in the rapid loss of support of his movement was a tacit acceptance of the creation of the state.

Now for you, Manzerah, I disagree with you ardently as well and have noted the lack of welcome that some of us Afghans Pashtuns feel from our Peshawari brethren at least anecdotally. I would sympathize if I felt the sting of this lack of acceptance by my brethren was solely in economically deprived KP due to population and disease burden. Instead, I get pot shots here in the US, from these brothers, telling me how us "Kabulyaan" have destroyed all the fruit trees and resources etc. I detailed that elsewhere and was told I was paranoid. If our brethren the Afghans on the ground did not like you, why did they vote in a recent survey to want to join with you as one in a Pashtunistan?

http://www.examiner.com/afghanistan-...1?render=print

"The poll also showed majority support in Southern Afghanistan for secession and the creation of an independent Pashtunistan (potentially including some of Pakistan’s tribal regions)."

http://news.antiwar.com/2010/11/19/s...-nato-invaded/

However, as I have stated elsewhere, the reality is that I cannot expect a KP Pashtoon to give up some semblence of a functioning state (a corrupt one on life support I might add that is killing FATA brothers with the same weaponry from the same occupier on the other side) and all of the sudden throw off the shackles he has imposed on himself to join another train wreck, which is the incompetent, oligarchial, nepotistic and completely lacking in merit government of Hamid "the big K" Karzai. This would simply be exchaning one set of masters for another.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2....html?ref=asia

[graveyardofempires]

BLS, that was what I was going to say...Unfortunately, the Pashtuns in diaspora think more in terms Muslim Ummah than as a Pashtun/Afghan nation or at least the balance between the two views is missing...

The radicalization on this board sometimes scares me. But then you have individuals (e.g. Cateya Sher) that flare up such emotions.

why are you so much against the muslim ummah term
i mean dont get me wrong i love pashtuns and they come first in terms of education and usage of own language and autonomy.
just dont hate on my muslim brothers aight.
i love all types of people and we should be open minded not so much self centered.

[graveyardofempires]

Salaam Khan Saib,

I would agree with a lot of what you say, and I have, as you have seen, personally felt the sting of this accusation on here. However, Najib of the KHAD, the Bull, as he was called, the KGB brutal agent, is hardly a hero of any sort and I ardently disagree with lionizing that killer. He failed his field as a fellow physician and resorted to doing quiet a bit of harm as opposed to the "do no harm" mantra that doctors are taught to live by. If you call Omar a brutal agent, then Najib is about 10 Omars in 1 man and about 10 times as corruptible. He did not become president of our country, he was installed by the Soviets to save face.

I would also disagree that it is mere propaganda that RAW operates in Afghanistan:

http://books.google.com/books?id=nNT...igence&f=false

Here is Scheuer's piece in the diplomat with quiet a bit of detail about indian military involvement in the region and the antagonism this creates:

http://the-diplomat.com/2010/08/30/t...ar-flashpoint/

And regarding the comparison BLS made to Israel, once again it is unrealistic to assume that a large portion of our brethren across the Durand line view themselves as occupied in the manner of Palestine. There is no survey data to this effect and the statement lacks evidence.

Regarding whether the Pashtuns of KP were given a choice in the matter of being in Afghanistan vs Pakistan vs British India, I think that the general loss of support that one of my personal heroes, the Faqir of Ipi suffered in the rapid loss of support of his movement was a tacit acceptance of the creation of the state.

Now for you, Manzerah, I disagree with you ardently as well and have noted the lack of welcome that some of us Afghans Pashtuns feel from our Peshawari brethren at least anecdotally. I would sympathize if I felt the sting of this lack of acceptance by my brethren was solely in economically deprived KP due to population and disease burden. Instead, I get pot shots here in the US, from these brothers, telling me how us "Kabulyaan" have destroyed all the fruit trees and resources etc. I detailed that elsewhere and was told I was paranoid. If our brethren the Afghans on the ground did not like you, why did they vote in a recent survey to want to join with you as one in a Pashtunistan?

http://www.examiner.com/afghanistan-...1?render=print

"The poll also showed majority support in Southern Afghanistan for secession and the creation of an independent Pashtunistan (potentially including some of Pakistan’s tribal regions)."

http://news.antiwar.com/2010/11/19/s...-nato-invaded/

However, as I have stated elsewhere, the reality is that I cannot expect a KP Pashtoon to give up some semblence of a functioning state (a corrupt one on life support I might add that is killing FATA brothers with the same weaponry from the same occupier on the other side) and all of the sudden throw off the shackles he has imposed on himself to join another train wreck, which is the incompetent, oligarchial, nepotistic and completely lacking in merit government of Hamid "the big K" Karzai. This would simply be exchaning one set of masters for another.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2....html?ref=asia

your sources are irrelevant
even though najib was what you said still he was 10 times a saint compared to zia ul haq

[BarakzaiAbdali]

your sources are irrelevant
even though najib was what you said still he was 10 times a saint compared to zia ul haq

Hmm, deriding sources, coming from someone with exquisite diffulty supporting any of their arguments and making random arguments? Illogic is the last bastion of the ignorant.

However, I do not disagree with the general sentiment that Zia was no saint. He created this welfare state that requires being the "call girl" to nearly every world regional power all at the same time. That however does not let Najib... who decided to take on the name Najib ul lah a hero.

[graveyardofempires]

GOE, I have liked most of your posts, and agree with you about Pakistan being a treacherous state, but please never ever say that Najib was good.


Admin Khan,


People in Afghanistan will gravitate to those that give them justice and not to those that are killing them. The victors in Afghanistan are the ones that will give justice. Afghans will be the victors.

Najib supported the Russians. That is enough to cement his notorious legacy in history forever. There is no Afghan that loves him.

Karzai maybe a completely different story, but he should still defect from his post and declare his open opposition to the foreigners.

so how is karzai any different wrora?

i didnt say i like or support najib but compared him to zia ul haq.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

BLS, that was what I was going to say...Unfortunately, the Pashtuns in diaspora think more in terms Muslim Ummah than as a Pashtun/Afghan nation or at least the balance between the two views is missing...

The radicalization on this board sometimes scares me. But then you have individuals (e.g. Cateya Sher) that flare up such emotions.

Yes, yet you represent the opposite extreme... sort of secular Taliban if I may, with a socialist agenda, vying for racial purity (echoes of 1940s Germany anyone?). You called Manzerah academically immature, yet cite a CAMP NGO study to support your own arguements after deriding CAMP NGO about a month ago.