Do you prefer to live with ?

[Mina]

Toramana, even if Zayam is an American that's doesn't make his opinion or his appreciation any less valueable does it? And I don't know what Pashtoons in Pashtunkhwa are like today but looking at Pashtoons who join Pakistani politics Afghans get a different vision. They are thinking why do they even meddle if they truly don't want us to break? Even Pashtoons I meet in real life are a pleasure to meet but every single one of them starts mocking Tajiks and critisize us of being Persianized, which is quiet saddening. While, I still have to met a Tajik who calls us Pakistanized or anything similar. Though its very much our own fault that we allowed foreigners to do anything, but again we are committing mistakes after mistakes by assuming we are always right.

[Mina]

Unknownprince, yes I know what NA did to Pashtoons in Mazar, and I also know what Taliban did to entire north. When Taliban wanted to enter north it were Uzbeks and Hazaras who resisted them but yet Tajiks were punished along them. Even in 2001/2002 it were mainly Uzbeks and Hazaras who fought back against Taliban and their supporters, Tajiks' role compared to that was absolutely nothing. And Afghanistan has been occupied since forever, but we just never admit it. We were indirectly occupied by the British who took our Pashtunkhwa, still we claim victories over them. We have been occupied by Russians under communism who made us divide in hezbs, yet we claim victory over them. We were occupied by Pakistan under Taliban, yet we believe Pakistan had very less interest of Taliban being our leaders. And today we are being occupied by entire world, yet we are proud that the brave Pashtoons named Taliban are defeating them in a war already won by them. Every single occupier got what they wanted from us, yet we are glad we made them leave our country while after looting us, they haven't got any reason to stay on our soil anymore. But compare today's state to past few decades then you will see that ethnics are starting to be treated fairly, country is starting to progress, provinces are able to strengthen themselves, etc. Still there are some disturbing practises going on there, but that's what you get left over from war and hope is there that we will Inshahlah fight it. Together this time.

[Sheenka]

Pukhtunkhwa.

pakistan?

[Fahd]

pakistan?

yes !

[Michin Khel]

pakistan?

I think he dont consider pakhtunkhwa to be part of pakistan...

Many members here are originally from pakhtunkhwa but have citizenship of westren countries so they dont have direct link with pakistan.

I am born and grew up in Pakistan and i have pakistani NIC so i consider pakhtunkhwa to be part of pakistan and do not called it occupied.

[Sheenka]

actually u r right, but there is no such a place called pashtunkhwa so its better to be more specific

[Michin Khel]

actually u r right, but there is no such a place called pashtunkhwa so its better to be more specific

khyber pakhtunkhwa automatically means pakhtunkhwa.

[Sheenka]

agree wid u shlombay why would they kill kids for?

[afghan]

Anyone who says Taliban killed children are spreading Tajik propaganda.

shaheed never dies, taliban never kill them they just send them on suicide mission. taliban killing children is a complete lie.

[Shayesta]

^

@Mina
Beautiful views and how right you are! It will take a while for Pukhtoons to realize what state they are at and how to get rid of pride which is not needed in every single aspect, but hopefully they will get there. It took me a while and I understand completely where you are coming from, thank you.

[Toramana]

Toramana, even if Zayam is an American that's doesn't make his opinion or his appreciation any less valueable does it?

My respone to him wasn't a negation of the his right to say the things he did say or negate the worth of his comment. As I said before, I was just pointing to the habit of some people to bash you with their ultra-utopian, fantastic, and sometimes self-serving notions of humanisn (that even they wouldn't be able to practice in their personal lives) when you try to plead for your people.

And I don't know what Pashtoons in Pashtunkhwa are like today but looking at Pashtoons who join Pakistani politics Afghans get a different vision. They are thinking why do they even meddle if they truly don't want us to break?

There are problems on either side. We should admit this and try to work towards removing them. Just getting frustrated or resorting to escapism wouldn't solve our problems. The destruction that has hit us would return with more gravity if we, Pashtns,to both sides of the Durand couldn't find some kind of mutually agreed way to eliminate/neutralizes the root causes of violence (mostly foreign injected) on our land including tribalism, ruralism, FATA, and Durand Line, which every now and then becomes a front-line against something, sometimes frontline against Communism, sometimes frontline against terrorism, and so on...

[AnGaaR]

Taliban killed men, not women and children like the disgraceful NA. There are obviously peaceful Tajiks, Hazaras, and Uzbeks who will be protected. The NA will be crushed. We all know this,. Go and check it up yourself. You seem to be giving one-sided news.

there is blood in the water, and the sharks are returning.

Anyone who says Taliban killed children are spreading Tajik propaganda.

Sorry for interference..

Talibans did kill children and women specially in Bamyan and Mazar.
They tried to massacre the whole hazara and shia community but failed.
Lets not forget that when they blew the bamyan statue, those days they were engaged in fight with Northern alliances where most of the hazara children and women were killed.

In Afghanistan everyone killed innocent people.. You may recognize a child but a bullet of your gun never recognizes a kid or women. It just goes through.......
Lets not take side.. yaw ham da sarei zaman nadei..
The day we stop supporting the Jahadi/wahabi/talibi/amricay/paki and Russian groups, That day we will have a bright hope of Azad Afghanistan.

[Mina]

Unknownprince wrora, eventually invaders WILL be kicked out. Even in places like Africa where people got no power to even mention of, some Africans think they kicked out every single nation who once used to rule over them while the fact is that those rulers themselves decided its enough now and we got what we wanted, now lets move on. Same is case with Afghanistan, our occupiers since last few decades had no interest anymore in us thats why they left, not 'cause we have driven them away 'cause even today if USA wants to they can blow up only major province still supporting Taliban, Kandahar, and victory is theirs. But thats not in their interest, destroying Japan was in their interest and therefore they killed nearly 100.000 of them in just one blow. But they got no benefit by doing the same to Afghanistan, nor did the British and Russians have that benefit. I have got Kandahari relatives and the situation I hear Kandaharis are in is heart ripping, I'm closing my eyes when I listen to those horrors. On our own soil we are forced to obey Americans, on our own soil we were forced to obey Pakistan, on our own soil we were forced to obey Russians, and we split our own soil into two halves which gave us Afghanistan and Pashtunkhwa. And then we talk of "victory"? Victory means achieving something where you can be proud of and making sure your enemy is at lost, what did we achieve by "defeating" British? Or Russians? Or mujaheds? Or today nato? Could you name one thing we achieved by "defeating" these people where we can be proud of? And what did those people lose by "losing" wars to us?

We are not THE Pashtoons we once used to be. We are not Baba, we are not Mirwais Hotaki, we are not Bacha Khan, we are not any of those Pashtoons of whom we can be proud of. Do you know why? 'Cause we lost our strength the day we lost Pashtunkhwa. With Pashtunkhwa we were superpower, conquerers, respected, looked up upon and what not. TODAY, WE are forced to bow down to present superpowers, WE are being disrespected by even our own people, WE are being looked down at by entire world. Whats left in us wrora? Whats left? After we lost Pashtunkhwa we lost our sense, understanding, organisation, unity, what not, yet you are talking about VICTORY? What exactly did we win? And how did we win? By taking up a few arms?

And NA today is majority Tajik but genocide against Taliban was done by Khalili, Dostum and Fahim while genocide against their supporters was done by Dostum and his fellow Uzbeks, joined by Hazaras. Many people are unaware that bigger resistance than Tajiks were Uzbeks and Hazaras who had been very cruel on Pashtoons in Mazar, many Pashtoons infact fled to Baghlan, Takhar and mainly Herat where Ismail Khan allowed them in and where they were NOT tortured. Can you see difference between Tajiks and other two minorities? I'm not standing up for Tajiks 'cause I'm in love with them or 'cause I'm Tajikized like some of you claim, but because I KNOW most cruelty towards Pashtoons doesnt come from them, its from Uzbeks and Hazaras. Even then not every Uzbek supports Dostum and not every Hazara supports Khalili, many of them are tired and want Afghanistan to prosper as much as Pashtoons do. What will you get by punishing their present day people who got nothing to do with their past?? We were the one who forced ourselves upon them in their lands, they didnt come to Kandahar to do the same upon Pashtoons did they? And just like how I cant prove to you Taliban doing the same like NA did by sources, samewise you cant convince northerners of the same. And I thought you are a very strong follower of Islam?

[Mina]

Toramana, this is my concern with Pashtoons as well. We are so busy fighting that we dont have any time to come to an agreement, understand, meetings, etc. I dont like hearing any bad about non Pashtoon Afghans 'cause I got them as my relatives and family members, nor can I hear a word about Pashtoons of Pakistan 'cause for some strange reason I got the feeling if not this then next generation is going to make Pacha Khan's dream come true. They are going to unite Pashtoons. I love my non Pashtoon relatives and am proud of them, but it will remain the same if we are to divide into two nations one day. Just like how Pashtoons are divided into two nations but yet somewhere their hearts are met. I firstly never realized I had strong feelings about Pashtunkhwa, I realized this in Kabul few years back. I was following a speech of an Nangarhari official about Pacha Khan on tv and didnt take notice of what my cousin, father from Takhar, was telling me. He got mad at me and asked why I'm not paying any attention instead of listening to a speech about some "bloody dhalkhoor". I looked back at him and he continued that nothing is secure in Afghanistan these days but some Afghans die to secure "****ing grave of this dhalkhoor" and said he wonders why no one blows up his grave. I told him to shut his mouth about my fellow Pashtoons 'cause before anything else he was a Pashtoon and any Pashtoon would sacrifice himself if that means keeping up the honor of such an honorable man. Since he's younger I was able to shut him up but it hurt me very badly hearing him have such a tone about my fellow Pashtoons.

Following week we were still in Kabul and I knew he's a big admirer of Masood. I looked at his portrait which was all over at a famous roundabout in Kabul and said, everything is destroyed in Kabul expect for this portrait, why dont those Taliban blow this thing off if he indeed was their enemy? I straightaway saw my cousin get seriously furious but he tried to stay calm and replied, so many people put an effort on this and protect this with all their hearts, why do you want to break their effort and hearts? There I replied, what about Pacha Khan's grave? So many people put their effort and heart and even lives at stake, why do YOU want to shatter their effort, heart and life? There my cousin got quiet and never ever again I heard him badmouth Pakistanis, but I realized that second that if even our own family members can be this strongly against our unity, what can we expect from those not related to us at all?? That also politicians?? Why are we letting everyone insult us?? Why?? Infact why are we insulting EACHOTHER for being Desified or Tajikized, whatever that means, and yet moan about not being respected by non Pashtoon countrymen?

I dont want to upset non Pashtun Afghans by defending Pashtoons of Pakistan each time, nor do I want to explain a Pakistani Pashtoon each time that I'm NOT Tajikized if I love my fellow countrymen. This is the reason I feel sorry for myself, and the reason why I feel sorry for every single Pashtoon. With some people we are emotionally attached, with others mentally. We are lost and as long as we dont start holding gatherings, try to understand eachother, try to compromise with eachother, this sorry feeling will remain forever. Or, there might not remain much to be sorry about. Know what I mean?

[Michin Khel]

@Mina
Resisting and fighting foreign occupiers means alot, it is sign of alive nations. You are questioning what we have achieved by defeating british and russians... for instance if some one enters in one's house and try to kill their males and rape their females, then what should be one's natural response?.. ofcourse counter attack...

"Murda-dil kia khaak jia karte hain"