Do you prefer to live with ?

[Toramana]

There should be an option in which you let us choose to live with ALL of the above!

My friends include Tajiks, Hazaras, Pashtuns, Punjabis, Sindhis, and Kashmiris (among others, of course). I love each one more than the other - and we're all living in peace with each other.

How can one appreciate life (and diversity!!) by living with only one group of people? That'd drive me insane. I need diversity around me, not just in terms of race/ethnicity but in many other terms as well.

Roshina, I understand your point and appreciate it as an individual preference. But there is a dilema with diaspora living in the West...They cannot separate individual choices/attitudes from group aspirations and usually would judge things through Western standards and social-political models e.g., you say you are living peacefully with friends from diverse ethnic backgrounds. Yes that is possible in the West because you don't have any direct conflict of interests with your friends and the constitution of that country sort of acts as a balancer between the conflicting interests of citizens.


But the problems in our region are not just issues/relation between individuals. They are unsettled/resolved issues/disputes between nations and groups. How can you compare models of behaviour/relationship between individuals with those between whole groups and make judgement based on that? Your analogy sounds very attratctive and humanistic on the surface but at the same time, it is extremely simplistic and impractical.

Nations and groups are not individuals subject to feelings of empathy/affection and unlimited good-well (even individuals don't have unlimited and unconditional goodwell for each other). They are cold, callous, and emotionless with regard to their interests. Here we have nations involved not individuals in some comfortable environment of the West.

Believe me, I may be having more non-Pashtun friends and may be more humanistic towards them than some here beating the drum of humanism over and over. But can that be a good model for my people or for that matter for any other nation e.g., Baluchis, Tajaks, etc. to immitate? Can nations and groups establish relationship with each other just on the basis of good-well, word of mouth, mutual empathy, etc.

Resolution of issues between nations is required here. Irrelevant and unrealistic analogies would not work

Yes, all groups and nations can live with each other (at least for some time) but based on some contract. This is not a matter of sermons and lectures of humanistic behaviour; this is a matter of political strategy.

[Toramana]

And what is so bad about not living with each other? As long as there is no ill-will and hatred for each other and if there is no way living with each other peacefully, there is no harm parting ways with each. This is what the wise individuals, people, and nations do. And this is what the normal course of human group-relations is. When a family becomes too heavy and smooth realtioships cannot be maintained without friction, people separate. In fact, separation in most cases leads to normalization of relations.

It is better to part ways than maitain an uneasy relation just on the basis of unrealistic humanistic/moral expectations from each other.

[Sheenka]

Toramana, i was just wondering, where u from?

[Toramana]

Toramana, i was just wondering, where u from?

Pukhtunkhwa.

[Mina]

Toramano, may I tell you that you are very childish when it comes to political debates? Before even starting off a debate you kick off with targeting a group of people who tend to disagree with you by called them Tajik minded, westernized, etc but yet expect unity amongst Pashtoons without even listening to them. Simply 'cause you have already made up your mind about certain people, in this regard, what's the difference between you disrespecting a particular group of Pashtoons and Tajiks or Punjabis disrespecting Pashtoons?

[Toramana]

Toramano, may I tell you that you are very childish when it comes to political debates? Before even starting off a debate you kick off with targeting a group of people who tend to disagree with you by called them Tajik minded, westernized, etc but yet expect unity amongst Pashtoons without even listening to them. Simply 'cause you have already made up your mind about certain people, in this regard, what's the difference between you disrespecting a particular group of Pashtoons and Tajiks or Punjabis disrespecting Pashtoons?

And you are committing the same act that you want to crucify me for i.e., targeting me by calling me childish without even bothering to read my posts and understanding the whole point I want to make. I hope you follow the whole discussion before posting random remarks.

Rest, I am sorry to have used that word i.e., Tajak-minded. Actually, there was a discussion going on between some Afghan Pashtuns and Afghan Parsiwans and I felt some Pashtun forum members were unjustly charging/castigating Pashtuns for things they were not entirely or exclusively responsible for and so jumped on the side of Pashtuns.


But now I feel, it was a mistake. It was an issue between Afghans (Afghan Pashtuns versus Afghan Tajaks, etc.) and I or other Pashtuns(Pukhtunkhwa) had no right to interfere in that. In fact, Pashtuns (Pukhtunkhwa) have no direct or indirect clash of interests or issue with Tajaks, Hazaras, Uzbaks, etc. with whom we share neither land nor any other thing and to whom we played as hosts (bad or good) for almost 25 years. So it will be inappropriate involving into a conflict that doesn't concern us especially when it also irritates some members.

[Toramana]

I have modified the word Tajak-minded.

[AnGaaR]

da poll options kam dei
you had to add panjabis and Pro pakistan pashtoons too


For me.. I would prefer to live with yahoods but not with those kind of pashtoons who want Afghanistan to be broken into pieces

[Toramana]

Hi Angar, I forgot to include Punjabis...The third option actually was Punjabis. Rest, be satisfied no one is going to break Afghanistan. I request the admin to modify the poll and include the Punjabis as 4th option.

[Toramana]

The interesting thing is, Hazaras have got 3 votes. I knew a person who was a student at an institution of Peshawar, was fluent in Pashto, and I considered him to be a Pashtun. But the intriguing part was, he would minlge with Hindko and Punjabi speakers and avoid Pashtuns. Later I found he was an Afghan with ancestry partly Afghan Hazras and partly Afghan Pashtuns (Wardaks from Maidan Shahar if I correctly remember the place name).

The other things I found about him was that he had strong connections with Queta Baluchistan because in Queta there is a sizale Hazara community. In fact, he told me most of the Hazara or mixed-bread Afghan Hazars and Afghan Pashtuns preferred living in Queta because there were Pakistani Hazaras(Shias and Dari-speaking) there.

[Toramana]

I have not heard of that many Hazaras in Quetta. Quetta is 90% Pashtun stronghold. Also, aren't Hinkos originally Pashtun?

No, there is a pretty sizable Hazara community in Queta. In fact, there was a Hazara army chief of Pakistan Army during the reign of Ayub Khan with name General Musa Khan. Another Hazara high-ranking officer in Pakistan Army was Sharbat Ali Changaizi (Air Commodore or something like that).

There is a Hazara from Queta whose name is Ali Kameel Qazalbash who writes regularly in Pashto magazines. Hazars are on good terms with Pashtuns in Queta but have tense relations with Balochis.

Lately, they have been a victim of sectarian violence at the hands of Salafi and other Islamo-fascists.

[Toramana]

I have not heard of that many Hazaras in Quetta. Quetta is 90% Pashtun stronghold. Also, aren't Hinkos originally Pashtun?

There are many Hindko speaking people in Hazara (division of Pukhtunkhwa) who are Pashtuns originally e.g., Jaduns of Aabbotabad, Swatis (some Swatis speak Hindko others Pashto), Tarins, etc.

But probably you are confusing Hazaras (the same people as in Bamyan, Central Afghanistan) with the Hazara Division of Pukhtunkhwa. Hazara is the name of a place just like Nangahar is the name of province in Afghanistan.

[Mina]

Toramana, for that I know I haven't attacked your personality nor your identity while you started your first post by generalising and followed by calling someone western without him even commenting on this thread, and then I am the one being random? But I am glad you understood not to tag people by whatever you want to and just hear them out first. I can't speak on behalf of all Pashtoons but I as a Pashtana would say that Afghan Pashtoons are mentally and emotionally very confused about their feelings and desires. On one hand we got Pashtunkhwa whose people are other half of us, whom we share everything with except nationality, who have been there for us during all those wars, etc. But then some decided to side Pakistan's politics by meddling with Afghanistan till today's date. But they don't represent entire of Pashtunkhwa and nor does that make my feelings any less strong about Pashtunkhwa, though more than anything they will choose Pakistan over everything while its a sincere desire of ours to reunite with them as we were before. Then we got Tajiks whom we not only spent centuries with but also mingled with them in a way you won't find any difference between most of us in culture, thinking and in some places even languages. But even there we had some big political rows which have driven Tajiks away very far from us, and nor do I blame them. The thing is that most of the time it have been Uzbeks and Hazaras who caused differences but yet Pashtoons and Tajiks suffered the most. So 'cause many Pashtoons are emotionally attached with Tajiks they want to think of leaving them. Once again I can't speak on behalf of all of them but this is what I personally believe the problem is. We want to fulfill our desires, but we don't want to kill our emotions. If I am making sense

[Toramana]

Toramana, for that I know I haven't attacked your personality nor your identity while you started your first post by generalising and followed by calling someone western without him even commenting on this thread, and then I am the one being random? .......

Actually, I had Zayam probably the American member on this forum in mind while using the word Westerners, who was very prompt to appreciate the humanistic tone of the first response to my opinion poll. Unfortunately, Americans and some other Western countries play this humanistic card a lot in international politics when their interests demand.


Anyhow, Pashtuns (Pukhtunkhwa) don't want to break Afghanistan. Such an apprehension on the part of Afghans or Afghan Pashtuns in this regard is misplaced.

[Nokia_Apridy]

unknownprince tuba ubasa

ahmed shah masod khu zmung

peghmbar da ...........