Non-Pashtun Pashtuns and Pashtuns non-Pashtuns

[khushal]

[MENTION=1547]khushal[/MENTION] the author of above reference says that brown tinge in skin of Jajis is due to soot of pine trees which they use for firewood and their aversion to use of cold water......very interesting

So where did you read that Jaji, Turi, and Wardak are pashtunized pashtuns?

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

The paracha living alongside the pashtuns even look like pashtuns compared to those living elsewhere.Such as Nadeem farooq paracha look like the people of karachi.

In Bannu we call them 'Peeracha'.

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

Toramana ta sha kass ye kho kala kala koni tob kawey.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

Let's be fair here. I think that most Pashtuns have been Pashtunized at some point in history If it's true that Pashtuns were the result of different cultural and linguistic groups amalgamating then we were pretty much all Pashtunized.

It's just the people we consider "Pashtunized" were people who were Pashtunized at a later time and absorbed after Pashto crystalized as a distinct identity and language.

Let's face it we're a mysterious group ......Whether our history is 5000 years old or not is doubtful .....but it certainly seem that Our Ancestors sprung forth from the Aether and Materialized on Earth

who knows ....maybe we are Nim-Pareshtan ....like the Nephilim or Annunaki in the Semitic Lore

[Brown Skinned Savage]

Also 77% of Pashtuns are R1a in blood, that's a pretty good indication for a homogenous ethnic group. Tribal people in general are purer compared to people that don't live in tribes like tajiks or uzbeks. Dialects are region influenced, not tribal. That's why Arabs, Pashtuns and even Native Americans all look the same because they are one ethnic group. I expected more from you Khushal.

This is a false correlation Because it's possible for numerous ethnic groups to have R1a Haplotype. Thus the claim that it would indicate a homogenous ethnicity is false

Furthermore 77% implies 23% Non-R1a, homogeneity would imply that closer to 99% would be R1a.

Furthermore Pashtuns don't all look the same. You're confusing PHENOTYPE (GENE EXPRESSION) with GENOTYPE ( DNA)


Does this guy?



Look like this guy?



One is a Hotak Ghilzai and the other is an Ahmadzai Ghilzai


That's PHENOTYPE.

[Sarbani]

What about those non-Pashtun non-Pashtuns that think they're Pashtun? (Yusuf Pathan, Irfan Pathan, Zaheer Khan, and 90% of Indian Muslims I've met)

[khushal]

What about those non-Pashtun non-Pashtuns that think they're Pashtun? (Yusuf Pathan, Irfan Pathan, Zaheer Khan, and 90% of Indian Muslims I've met)

inferiority complex.

[Azmal]

Let us talk about this topic.

There are non-Pashtuns Pashtuns that speak Pashto yet are not Pashtuns. Then there are Pashtuns that don't speak Pashto or live amongst Pashtuns yet are Pashtuns.

This is an interesting situation.

Probably, Smutty aka Goofy may throw some light on this issue

Interesting topic. Weber defines ethnicity as group members entertain a subjective belief in their common descent. So ethnicity is inherently a matter of ancestry, of believes about the origins of one's forebears. Thus anyone that has a Pashton father is a Pashton. For me on other hand, it’s all about self-identification. If you identify as Pashton then you are a Pashton. Although in my experiences I have seen a lot of those that speak Pashto as first language but are not for Pashton national interest. Take this Black Pakistan as example, he want Pashtons to be a Bangra dancing, daal eating Desi—Hindustani Muslims(Pakistani)!

[Azmal]

Toramana,
I don't agree with your political stance and your leftist idea, nonetheless I find you to be very loyal to Pashton nation interest. As for as I’m concern you are as Pashton as it gets.

[Azmal]

Smarty,
Afghans consider the Pashtuns in Pakistan outside of FATA as "kam," "narom," and even "kacha." The tribes you mention (Wazir, Masuds, Afridis, Orakzai) of FATA consider the same of settled Pashtuns. Does this make the settled pashtun as non pashtun?

A jirga is when someone close to you sits with you to discuss matters that involve those people. So we have family jirgas where no one outside the family is allowed to sit, we have village jirgas where no one out side the village is allowed to sit, we have qom jirgas where no one outside the qom sits. The reason kabigars and damon dont sit in jirgas is because they are an extreme minority and they dont own any land that needs protection so therefore they have no incentive to form a viable fighting force to protect their land.

Words like Kacha, and Kam are just words. People behavior is guided by incentives and as long as those kasabgars and damon have no land that needs protection, then what is the incentive to die in battle. Why die to protect other people's land. Pashtun landowners label them baighyrat because they wont fight. Well, give them something so they can die defending it.

My answer was to tripledouble. The people in my village will put their necks on the line for the kasibgars and damon protection than imran khan or zahir shah. They have more respect for the former than the latter.

And we are all pashtunized people who originally spoke a different language, which is why the people of Jaji have a different accent than the people of Wazir who have a different accent from Mangal who have a different accent from Afridi. Also there are difference in our culture if you go from Qom to Qom.

We are a linguistic group, not an ethnic group who had one forefather.

Yet all your elders will call Zahir Shah BABA.

[Azmal]

Toro, i am aware about layers of identity, i was talking about ethnic identity. I am Pakistani and you are Canadian, that is one layer of identity. I am muslim and you are a napak atheist, that is another layer. I am Pashtun and you are a paracha , that is another one.

What were you before 1947? What makes one a Pashton is loyalty to Pashton national interest. Someone that call a Gujrati Muslim convert Baba is no Pashton for me.

[Azmal]

Moron, identity has many forms and plays at many levels from personal to global human identity. If you place too much emphasis on your tribal identity that may be an indication of low self-esteem and lack of confidence in yourself as an autonomous fully functional conscious entity independent of tribe.

Furthermore, not all layers of identities need be present and at play, e.g., post modern society has long gone beyond narrow tribal lines and demarcations.

Anyhow, that is your choice if you want to stick to your tribal macho-man type egoistic self consciousness that characterise primitive cultures we don't have objection to that. But we want the rest of Pashtuns to go beyond that.

Exactly, I have seen this lot with Pathan. They claim to be Hindustani Muslims--Pakistani and even call a Gujrati Shia convert Baba, and yet when you corn them they become proud Afghan. I swear I have heard so many time these people telling me their forefather came from Afghanistan so they Afghan. These people need to make their mind…can't have it both ways, either you are Afghan (Pashton) that values Pashton national interest or you’re a Pakistani.
For me a Hazara or Hindu Afghan that value Pashton national interest and works for Afghanistan has more value than dogs like Gen Bubar, Asad Durrani or Parviz Khattak and it does not matter that their great grandmother went to bed with an Afghan, so they have afghan tribal names.

[khushal]

Yet all your elders will call Zahir Shah BABA.

Prove it.Most people in Zazi call Zahir Shah a sellout since he did not know how to speak Pashto nor did he work to advance Pashto. he acted more like a farsiwan pimp than a Pashtun ghazi. The Baba and Neka title is only given to Meir Weis and Ahmed Shah.

[khushal]

Interesting topic. Weber defines ethnicity as group members entertain a subjective belief in their common descent. So ethnicity is inherently a matter of ancestry, of believes about the origins of one's forebears. Thus anyone that has a Pashton father is a Pashton. For me on other hand, it’s all about self-identification. If you identify as Pashton then you are a Pashton. Although in my experiences I have seen a lot of those that speak Pashto as first language but are not for Pashton national interest. Take this Black Pakistan as example, he want Pashtons to be a Bangra dancing, daal eating Desi—Hindustani Muslims(Pakistani)!

There are ethnic Pashtuns who are a mystery and then there are linguistic Pashtuns(the ones who have adopted the Pashtun language and culture) who are the vast majority.

[tilla_jogian]

Interesting topic. Weber defines ethnicity as group members entertain a subjective belief in their common descent. So ethnicity is inherently a matter of ancestry, of believes about the origins of one's forebears. Thus anyone that has a Pashton father is a Pashton. For me on other hand, it’s all about self-identification. If you identify as Pashton then you are a Pashton. Although in my experiences I have seen a lot of those that speak Pashto as first language but are not for Pashton national interest. Take this Black Pakistan as example, he want Pashtons to be a Bangra dancing, daal eating Desi—Hindustani Muslims(Pakistani)! .

Actually Pakistanis eat more meat then Afghanis according to UN report. Afghanis are usually known for eating ubla huwa onions.