Non-Pashtun Pashtuns and Pashtuns non-Pashtuns

[Toramana]

Let us talk about this topic.

There are non-Pashtuns Pashtuns that speak Pashto yet are not Pashtuns. Then there are Pashtuns that don't speak Pashto or live amongst Pashtuns yet are Pashtuns.

This is an interesting situation.

Probably, Smutty aka Goofy may throw some light on this issue

[Black Pakistani]

Excellent point, for years now I've been saying on this forum, that in order to be recognized as a Pashtun, you must speak Pashto.

We will find out because those who can't speak Pashto are not real Pashtuns. Any Tajik or Punjabi who can speak Pashto is more Pashtun than Lodhis or Pathans who don't speak Pashto anymore. If you don't have Pashto, how can you be Pashtun?

I have maternal Pashtun ancestry on mother's side so I'm not counted as Pashtun officially but I can speak Pashto better than some 100% Pashtuns on here.

Raashay chi pa Pakhto ke khabare kawu. Those who are fake will be exposed.

[Toramana]

Someone on this topic. Come on guys this is an interesting topic.

Mr. Samrty what is your opinion on this?

[Smarty]

Let us talk about this topic.

There are non-Pashtuns Pashtuns that speak Pashto yet are not Pashtuns. Then there are Pashtuns that don't speak Pashto or live amongst Pashtuns yet are Pashtuns.

This is an interesting situation.

Probably, Smutty aka Goofy may throw some light on this issue

Those non-pashto speaking pathans live in distant places, are not under our influence. But castes, like your paracha, have lot to do with us. Your class serve pashtuns, obey pashtuns and even vote on the orders of your pashtun land-holders. So you people are part of pashtun society, but placed at bottom for obvious reasons.

[Smarty]

Someone on this topic. Come on guys this is an interesting topic.

Mr. Samrty what is your opinion on this?

Why you say "we" and " us"?. Who has given you authority to kamasal like you to use word pashtun for yourself?. Your Yusufazai lords would never allow a hindi low caste like you to use their identity. Not just an ordinary indic, but you people were "conquered" ones, forced into serfdom and even sold into slavery on occasions.

[tripledouble]

lol there some kasabgars who suffer from stockholm syndrome and have accepted their pashtoonization despite being non-pashtun indics by blood, and they are the natives of KPK, have some pride [MENTION=1201]Toramana[/MENTION] in being native with no pashtun dna


There are some famous kasabgars like Haji Adeel who project their insecurities by insulting indic groups of pak just to be accepted by Pashtun nationalists

[khushal]

Pashtuns are a linguistic group, not an ethnic group. One must be able to speak Pashto, follow Pashto's code of conduct and culture in order to be Pashtun. One who has strayed from this, we say "pashto a prai khwalay," therefore he/she is no longer counted as Pashtun.

This is why we consider terms like Panjabi, Jatt, Kabuli, Farsiwan, Hindu as insults because they follow a non independent or submissive mentality.

[tripledouble]

Pashtuns are a linguistic group, not an ethnic group. One must be able to speak Pashto, follow Pashto's code of conduct and culture in order to be Pashtun. One who has strayed from this, we say "pashto a prai khwalay," therefore he/she is no longer counted as Pashtun.

This is why we consider terms like Panjabi, Jatt, Kabuli, Farsiwan, Hindu as insults because they follow a non independent or submissive mentality.

so tomorrow if Somali kasabgar speak pashto and adopt pashtunwali, you will accept as pashtun as oppose to imran khan who have pashtun blood but don't speak or follow traditions?

[Toramana]

Pashtuns are a linguistic group, not an ethnic group. One must be able to speak Pashto, follow Pashto's code of conduct and culture in order to be Pashtun. One who has strayed from this, we say "pashto a prai khwalay," therefore he/she is no longer counted as Pashtun.

This is why we consider terms like Panjabi, Jatt, Kabuli, Farsiwan, Hindu as insults because they follow a non independent or submissive mentality.

Khushal I tell you what is the precise problem with smarty . He in reality is primarily a Siraiki but is claiming Pashtun descent. The Mechan Khels he belongs to say they are Niazis but at the same time also claim to be Sayeds indicating the confusion in their minds and the shadowy nature of their origin.

Most likely they were from the Siraiki region of Mianwali or Bhakar that adjoins DI Khan that somehow ended up in Marwat area. Many Mechan Khels until recently retained the Siraik-Punjabi habits, e.g., the wearing the typical Punjabi-Siraiki dress of dhothi, and at some places still retaining the influence of Siraiki on the dialect that they speak.

You can find such people in southern districts of Bannu, DI Khan, Kohat that claim to be Niazis etc. but in reality are Jat/Awan.

Now living among Pashtuns these people live in a dilemma as how to define themselves. Sometimes, to prove themselves more Pashtuns than Pashtun themselves they glorify Pashtun history etc. as this Smarty is doing here.

Another characteristic of such transitional people is that they cannot place themselves decisively at one place or another as shown by the tribal expression of Pashtunwali by this Smarty and at the same time Paki nationalism.

For me being a Pashtun or non-Pashtun doesn't make a difference as long as I have a trust in who am I.

[khushal]

so tomorrow if Somali kasabgar speak pashto and adopt pashtunwali, you will accept as pashtun as oppose to imran khan who have pashtun blood but don't speak or follow traditions?

Correct, in that regard, he would be respected more than Imran Khan since Imran Khan has completely left pashto.

But it works like clay pottery where time is a big factor. The more time passes practicing the code of conduct and speaking pashto, the more it solidifies and hardens. It becomes more and more a part of the person and with each passing generation, it solidifies more.

[tripledouble]

Correct, in that regard, he would be respected more than Imran Khan since Imran Khan has completely left pashto.

But it works like clay pottery where time is a big factor. The more time passes practicing the code of conduct and speaking pashto, the more it solidifies and hardens. It becomes more and more a part of the person and with each passing generation, it solidifies more.

but yours is a minority/intellectual view, to average pashtun imran khan look pashtun even if not speak language but somali kasabgar will never be considered pashtun even if fully assimilate in culture/language

that is reality

[Smarty]

lol there some kasabgars who suffer from stockholm syndrome and have accepted their pashtoonization despite being non-pashtun indics by blood, and they are the natives of KPK, have some pride [MENTION=1201]Toramana[/MENTION] in being native with no pashtun dna


There are some famous kasabgars like Haji Adeel who project their insecurities by insulting indic groups of pak just to be accepted by Pashtun nationalists

I have mixed opinions about our serfs , hamsayas. Most of them are like loyal and obedient dogs like what they are supposed to be. Then we have stray ones like [MENTION=1201]Toramana[/MENTION] who bites the hands of his masters that feeds him, and is delusional that he is on par with status of his masters.

[Smarty]

Pashtuns are a linguistic group, not an ethnic group. One must be able to speak Pashto, follow Pashto's code of conduct and culture in order to be Pashtun. One who has strayed from this, we say "pashto a prai khwalay," therefore he/she is no longer counted as Pashtun.

This is why we consider terms like Panjabi, Jatt, Kabuli, Farsiwan, Hindu as insults because they follow a non independent or submissive mentality.

And according to that "code of conduct" i.e pashtunwali, serfs attached to you like karigars, are not pashtuns. If some one is part of pashtun society, he would understand that the word 'pashtun' doesnt stand for every pashto speaker in pashtun society. Mullah for example is not considered a pashtun, as he is not pashtun by lineage in most of the cases even though he would be speaking perfect pashto. Its because historically pashtuns were warrior and ruling class, for other professions, people from other races were hired. Afridis have told me that gun smiths of dara adam khel are not afridis, but lohar from punjab who were hired during british times.

[khushal]

but yours is a minority/intellectual view, to average pashtun imran khan look pashtun even if not speak language but somali kasabgar will never be considered pashtun even if fully assimilate in culture/language

that is reality

It depends on who you ask and where you ask.

In reality, the look does not matter, if you look at many pashtun families, you can see green eyed, light haired, light skinned members as well as dark skinned that resemble the people from southern India in the same family. The look does not qualify or disqualify them.

In the area I am from, Jaji, Paktia. We have kasabgars and damon who came from somewhere else, they all practice pashtunwali and speak pashto, while we don't consider them as Pashtun as the rest of the tribal members because they pashtunified much later than the tribe, they still are considered pashtun and have the full protection of the tribe much like any other member of the tribe. If they have a dispute with a member of the tribe, they are given equal rights as any other member.
Because of the time factor, the tribal members would consider themselves more pashtun than them.

The pashtun that live in the mountains are different from the pashtuns that live in the settled area. The highland pashtun consider the settled pashtun as "narom"- soft and follow some parts of pashtunwali and leave other parts out as it suits them. The difference is that the settled pashtun live in a feudal structure much like Panjab whose elites have acquired a lot of land and wealth and the people that live on their land are servants while the highland pashtun still lives in a tribal structure where it is impossible for elites to acquire much land and wealth since their is very little of it.

To get back to your original question about the somali with the characters you describe, he would be respected more in the highlands than Imran Khan but not in the settled areas. But keep in mind that the highland pashtun have kept the more of the pashun culture than the settled pashtun so their opinion would count more.

[tripledouble]

I have mixed opinions about our serfs , hamsayas. Most of them are like loyal and obedient dogs like what they are supposed to be. Then we have stray ones like [MENTION=1201]Toramana[/MENTION] who bites the hands of his masters that feeds him, and is delusional that he is on par with status of his masters.

sometimes u need to use to stick