Jeans debate thread

[*Mahzala*]

Dera dera manana. Da Perth programme la tayar na de, kho ka charta khabara pakha shwa, no InshAllah, khabar ba de kam.

Da Palau shawkeen yam ... Der pa mina khuram.

Au bya da chai khabara ... waya ma ...

Ze hum, palau der khwand raakey. Garme garme, narme narme woreege....

De khaira sara, InshaAllah. Har kela raashey.

[Master Khan]

I would never let my wife wear tight jeans or anything that shows her body.
I am against it and my whole family is against including the females.
We are pashtuns not Western people.

[Roshina]

^
Your post reminds me of a 12 year old, 'Dont tell me what to do, I don't need your permission, don't tell me, I do it, cause I do it'

lol That's very cute to hear. But according to me, it's better to be like a 12-yr-old who refuses to accept everything just because it's labeled "Islamic" and reject everything just 'cause it's labeled "un-Islamic -- better to be that than a mindless mortal who cannot think for herself at all and accepts everything as Islamic/un-Islamic without thinking about it at all

Nonetheless, my posts meant that I *know* what's best for myself, and, while I appreciate your opinion and thoughts, I am not obligated *by any means* to accept your views as my own -- why, yes, EVEN if you're soo utterly convinced that they're Islamic.

But I've a suggestion. Let's say I'm a 12-year-old (let's suppose it's physically and not mentally, lol), and you're an older and mature woman. How about you try to explain to me WHY jeans are "haraam" or "immodest"?

when you consider yourself as a Muslim, certain responsibilities come along with it. One of them for us women to stay modest not expose our figure.

I suppose you pray 5 times a day, are a perfectly obedient wife (if you're married), stay at home and *never* leave your home unless you absolutely *need* to, never curse, never fight anyone, never get angry or at least know how to control your anger, never look at anyone of the opposite gender unless you absolutely *need* to (and that means that when you're on this online forum, you do not indulge in topics that are irrelevant or that require you to talk to males, for it's rarely necessary for a female to speak to male, whether she's in person with him or not), do not hurt other people -- ever, ever -- ALWAYS respect your parents and other elders no matter what, never ever lie, never ever miss a fast unless your health is at risk, and so on.

*Most likely* you are not the type of Muslim that you're *supposed* to be -- of course, no Muslim is as good as she/he is supposed to be. Which MEANS that while some people "wear jeans" (which is in your opinion "un-Islamic" and haram), you must be doing something else that's generally considered as "un-Islamic." Am I wrong?

I hope you get the idea?

your argument is simply horrible

I wonder if you know what my "argument" is at all. Why don't you tell me what you think my "argument" is, khorey? As far as I understand yours, it's that wearing jeans is absolutely haraam. Correct?

IF that's your argument, can you prove it to me? Meaning, can you give me some Islamic sources that say "Jeans are absolutely un-Islamic, haraam, and a girl CANNOT wear them"? Then tell me how the rules are for boys. Do boys "behinds" show in jeans as well, if your only reasoning is that they're "un-Islamic" because they're "immodest" because they show a *girl's* behind. 'Cause I can say, what if mine doesn't show in jeans? What if men's show as well?

Kho, khair, leave that -- what I *need* from you, khorey, is *evidence*, (Islamic) sources, that *prove* that jeans are un-Islamic.

Try to use either logic or then Quranic evidence to support your claim ANY time you tell people that something is haraam/un-Islamic. (k, fine, hadithic evdience will do as well, but I guarantee you that'll lead to a LENGTHY discussion :D)

Once you find your evidence, be it reason/logic or a MUCH better explanation that just that of "immodesty" ('cause then you have to define immodesty for me, you see?), we'll continue this. Sama da?

rather then saying may Allah give you the power of stopping such an UnIslamic act your here complaining how no one can't tell you anything.

Oh sweetie, don't pity me that's such a waste of time. I'd even like to say, you don't need to pray for my guidance either, but since I *know* you won't understand what I mean by that and will even MISunderstand it, I'll go ahead and spare you that pain -- and will just say, I guess we can pray for each other's guidance, no? Still, stick around; there's a LOT more we can do for each other than just praying in vain. No?

[*Mahzala*]

Jeans, in our culture, to many, brings with it that baggage and connotations which are obviously negative. What we call 'kawbai' (cowboy) is precisely that. A woman may argue she wants to reveal her 'femininity' by wearing jeans, by revealing the shape of her slender thighs, exposing her God-given beauty and what not, but really if you look at the roots of jeans, it came from cowboy American men. Not very feminine if you ask me.

As for the thread, where it is headed, to me, makes very less sense. Were arguing that jeans are not permitted within our religious boundaries, but were forgetting that any other piece of clothing can be just as revealing, or more if you like. Just as I know many women and girls here who wear abayas but theyre as skin tight as say a ballet costume. So at the end of the day, that abaya is not serving its purpose. You would rather be wearing a loose fitted shirt and skirt or three quarter dress and pant instead of that abaya. Hasey de hijaab num pe agha raqam kharapeegi. Hijaab sirf teekrai neday, ne yawa teka da. Hijaab dere manaagaane lari che ziyaat khalak ghalat taraf ta worhi. Modesty is driven by ones clothes, but also in the basics such as our gaze.

I am not however saying that I like jeans, or dont like them, or dont like women who wear them, because at the end of the day my likes and dislikes are for me, full stop. What I am saying is this whole issue of jeans, skinny legs, bell bottom, wide leg, straight cut - whatever it may be - is just another *type* of the many revealing things people wear nowadays. I am questioning the emphasis on this particular style, the fabric they call denim. Khalko, if were talking Islamic guidelines and modesty, no da de jeans khabere hets maana ne lari. Haya and hijaab work together. Were talking jeans, but were forgetting that jeans is just one of the types of a 'patlun' - which are also figure revealing - kho de jeans da num khpela dere khabere ra porta kawi.

[Master Khan]

Jeans, in our culture, to many, brings with it that baggage and connotations which are obviously negative. What we call 'kawbai' (cowboy) is precisely that. A woman may argue she wants to reveal her 'femininity' by wearing jeans, by revealing the shape of her slender thighs, exposing her God-given beauty and what not, but really if you look at the roots of jeans, it came from cowboy American men. Not very feminine if you ask me.

As for the thread, where it is headed, to me, makes very less sense. Were arguing that jeans are not permitted within our religious boundaries, but were forgetting that any other piece of clothing can be just as revealing, or more if you like. Just as I know many women and girls here who wear abayas but theyre as skin tight as say a ballet costume. So at the end of the day, that abaya is not serving its purpose. You would rather be wearing a loose fitted shirt and skirt or three quarter dress and pant instead of that abaya. Hasey de hijaab num pe agha raqam kharapeegi. Hijaab sirf teekrai neday, ne yawa teka da. Hijaab dere manaagaane lari che ziyaat khalak ghalat taraf ta worhi. Modesty is driven by ones clothes, but also in the basics such as our gaze.

I am not however saying that I like jeans, or dont like them, or dont like women who wear them, because at the end of the day my likes and dislikes are for me, full stop. What I am saying is this whole issue of jeans, skinny legs, bell bottom, wide leg, straight cut - whatever it may be - is just another *type* of the many revealing things people wear nowadays. I am questioning the emphasis on this particular style, the fabric they call denim. Khalko, if were talking Islamic guidelines and modesty, no da de jeans khabere hets maana ne lari. Haya and hijaab work together. Were talking jeans, but were forgetting that jeans is just one of the types of a 'patlun' - which are also figure revealing - kho de jeans da num khpela dere khabere ra porta kawi.

End of the Day that abayas and Hijab protects you from Men eyes.
If you wear tight jeans then you are a eye candy for the men in the streets, shopping etc.

[*Mahzala*]

End of the Day that abayas and Hijab protects you from Men eyes.
If you wear tight jeans then you are a eye candy for the men in the streets, shopping etc.

You are right, BUT, it is all up to the individual. How you wear your clothes is one thing. How you conduct yourself in front of others - men etc - is another. You may be wrapped, salor la, in an abaya and khimaar and niqaab, but if youre in the centre of a males group, what is the point? And I say it that way because those type of people do exist, locally speaking. And its those type too, che de sarhi sterge chire key.

And the whole issue of men staring etc, its so boring really.

[tor_khan]

Jeans, in our culture, to many, brings with it that baggage and connotations which are obviously negative. What we call 'kawbai' (cowboy) is precisely that. A woman may argue she wants to reveal her 'femininity' by wearing jeans, by revealing the shape of her slender thighs, exposing her God-given beauty and what not, but really if you look at the roots of jeans, it came from cowboy American men. Not very feminine if you ask me.

As for the thread, where it is headed, to me, makes very less sense. Were arguing that jeans are not permitted within our religious boundaries, but were forgetting that any other piece of clothing can be just as revealing, or more if you like. Just as I know many women and girls here who wear abayas but theyre as skin tight as say a ballet costume. So at the end of the day, that abaya is not serving its purpose. You would rather be wearing a loose fitted shirt and skirt or three quarter dress and pant instead of that abaya. Hasey de hijaab num pe agha raqam kharapeegi. Hijaab sirf teekrai neday, ne yawa teka da. Hijaab dere manaagaane lari che ziyaat khalak ghalat taraf ta worhi. Modesty is driven by ones clothes, but also in the basics such as our gaze.

I am not however saying that I like jeans, or dont like them, or dont like women who wear them, because at the end of the day my likes and dislikes are for me, full stop. What I am saying is this whole issue of jeans, skinny legs, bell bottom, wide leg, straight cut - whatever it may be - is just another *type* of the many revealing things people wear nowadays. I am questioning the emphasis on this particular style, the fabric they call denim. Khalko, if were talking Islamic guidelines and modesty, no da de jeans khabere hets maana ne lari. Haya and hijaab work together. Were talking jeans, but were forgetting that jeans is just one of the types of a 'patlun' - which are also figure revealing - kho de jeans da num khpela dere khabere ra porta kawi.

Mesbah Khor - wisdom, practicality and perfect sense.

You're a star.

[Master Khan]

You are right, BUT, it is all up to the individual. How you wear your clothes is one thing. How you conduct yourself in front of others - men etc - is another. You may be wrapped, salor la, in an abaya and khimaar and niqaab, but if youre in the centre of a males group, what is the point? And I say it that way because those type of people do exist, locally speaking. And its those type too, che de sarhi sterge chire key.

And the whole issue of men staring etc, its so boring really.

Trust me Khor, I got friends like this.
They see a girl wearing tight pants etc and they say rude things behind them.
I don't do it because I know its wrong.

[*Mahzala*]

Mesbah Khor - wisdom, practicality and perfect sense.

You're a star.

Coming from someone like you, I take that as a compliment, and very wholeheartedly. Hasey, yawa toka me kawela, kho wes bay pregdem.

Preach Mesbah, Preach.

Hey Afridi, if I am not mistaken, youve said that before too. Now I am not sure how to take it...hoping its not sarcasm.

Mesbah, I like what you said, but you should also take a look at the point I am arguing here with Qrrattugai.

I did like what I read though, I must say you are well taught.

I have read every word between you and Qrratu. I might just add that the rules are there, but times have changed. Now dont slap me with the 'Islam is a religion for all times, its not an outdated religion' argument (not attacking you Nazia, I am talking generally) because that is not my point. With time, with new products, with new ideas and innovations and ideals, it is us people who change. And with that so do our desires, be it a want or a need - whether Islamically speaking they are correct or not - they do change. Just as we do, other people change too, and this is where competition and peer pressure creeps in. That stuff can take you far places if your own beliefs are not strong, on a solid foundation. I follow those Hadeeths and Quran Ayahs very closely myself (that you have posted), or I try to at least, but everyone is different. I agree with you to a certain extent, but both you and Qrratu, I think, are arguing two extremes.

To be very honest with you, the first pair of jeans Ive ever owned was about four months ago, and its been tucked away in the 'stocking up' pile. And that too because for its style, it was a bargain buy. I am not a fan of jeans, in fact I do not like them at all. I didnt wear them in my childhood either, because mostly my older sister and brother did my shopping, and they were not very fond of it either. If it interests you to know...

Trust me Khor, I got friends like this.
They see a girl wearing tight pants etc and they say rude things behind them. I don't do it because I know its wrong.

Well, what can I say? Slap his eyes with Hijaab? Its not going to work with many, so I suppose just leave it. Girls nowadays seek 'freedom' and I doubt they can even define it properly. And that way, there is no room for argument when one cannot define his very own beliefs.

[Dinosaur Khan]

We have put the whole weight and responsibility on women. People will criticize the jeans wearing girl but not the boys chasing her or hooting after all.

[Dinosaur Khan]

I think boys also should not wear tight jeans, which obscenely make "tuberosity" prominent.

[*Mahzala*]

Yes JodiGul you are right. A man has certain commandments to follow too. A man (and women) is required to lower his gaze, for him, that is hijaab. Like I said earlier, modesty is driven by, and is apparent from many things, not just clothes. In saying that, we shouldnt forget that men need to follow and abide by the guidelines too. The clothing of men should not be like that of women (and vice versa), nor should it be tight and provocative. Men are not allowed to wear silk or gold, however, both are allowed for women. For both men and women, the way we are commanded to dress should not be a restriction, limitation or barrier for any reason, rather a way in which society can function in a healthy and Islamic manner.

[Dinosaur Khan]

I agree. But the argument is them attempting to say its ok.

you mean boys?

[Master Khan]

I never wear jeans..Don't like them.

[tor_khan]

I never wear jeans..Don't like them.

... I do wear denim, but, as Mesbah points out, for men it's no gold and no silk.

Gold and silk on men ... reminds me of pimps.