Assalamu Alaykum

[Muhammad Gujjar]

As pointed out by Salman47 , "Desi" is not an insult......you people call each other Desi and refer to indigenous indic things as desi. The literal meaning of desi is country's but the term was used for any one and any thing Indic. You will come across terms Desi and Wilayati (which also means country's) in old urdu literature ......In the Mughal period "Wilayat" meant Afghanistan and Persia and "Wilayati" in 18th century was used for Afghans/Pashtuns. Later in the British period "Wilayat" was used for England. So before educating us, educate yourself first and own your Indian identity and history.

Here is Pakistani restaurant in canada by name of "Desi corner" Desi Corner Restaurant

As i've said Desi has more to with shared language. When I was in Canada, I saw an Afghan restaurant called "Afghan Palace" having "Desi * Pakistani * India * Persian * Afghan cuisine". It has more to do with attracting customers than actually identifying themselves as Desi.

Also please tell me more about this made-up term "Indic".

[Muhammad Gujjar]

Got It!
The first thing that goes through your mind is 'Black Person' or 'African'!
you see that's the first thing you think of.
Same way when we see someone from Political South Asia(minus KPK/Balochistan/Sino-Tibetan areas), the first thing that comes to our mind is 'Indian'. Some of us might be aware of the Bangladesh/India/Pakistan division(not the internal divisions), but still the first thing that pops in our mind is 'Indian'

The Reason for this type of thinking is simple, you guys were part of Historical India, and we(Afghans), Turks, British etc. treated you as such.
Also it is very hard to just forget that you guys are 'Indians', but we will call you 'Indian' forever(metaphorically speaking)...
Same way in Arabic Culture(and thanks to their invasions, in some Eastern cultures as well), all the Africans are called 'Habashi'(Ethiopian) if I am not mistaken. And they will be called as such forever, because it is a part of 'Lisan alArbi''/'Lughat ulArbi''.
In Conclusion, People don't change that much.

P.S. I have a lot of African friends(from Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda, Ghana, Nigeria, Senegal, Egypt, Morocco, Libya, Somalia etc.), and I am fully aware of the Ethnic differences in Africa. But still the very first thing that comes to my mind, when I see a 'Black Person', is 'African'.

I hope I cleared the point of lumping all of you together as 'Indians'.

Please tell me what is historical India? There was never a state that went by the name of "India" before 1947, neither did anyone call themselves "Indian" before the 1800's-1850's.

[Traveller]

Please tell me what is historical India? There was never a state that went by the name of "India" before 1947, neither did anyone call themselves "Indian" before the 1800's-1850's.

You have to be kidding me. The words "hind" and "hindi" have existed since before Islam.

[maneatinglizard]

First off, are you Talwar e Pakistan on defence.pk?

We are proud of identity and we don't associate ourselves with Central Asians bar a very few people.

Also, desi has more to do with similar language (Urdu-Hindi) and cuisine and very little to do with ethnicity or identity. It was first used by Pakistani and India Punjabis but then the rest of the Indians and even Bengalis started to hop on the train and that's when Pakistanis began to distance themselves from this term.

Since when did Pakistanis distance themselves from the term? Everyone (including Pakistanis themselves) still refers to Pakistanis as "desi," unless you're talking about racists in the UK who might use "Paki" instead.

And "even Bengalis started to hop on the train"? You do realize that the majority of Pakistanis were Bengalis at the creation of the state, right? Why are you trying to distance yourself from people that would've been your fellow countrymen today, if not for the abuses of Punjab?

Also, please take no offense when I say this, but what credibility do you have to claim that Gujjars are of Dravidian ancestry?

When did I say that "Gujjars are of Dravidian ancestry"? There's a difference between what you think I said, and what I actually did say. Gujjars are Indo-Aryans, but like just about every other Indo-Aryan group in Hindustan, they mixed with native Dravidians over the millennia.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. Dravidians are humans just like anyone else. But facts are facts.

Please give me sources as well. You should look up non-Indian/Pakistani sources and lets just say that you will be "very annoyed".

Look up the DNA tests of any Gujjars and you'll see a significant South Indian (i.e. Dravidian) component, just like every other Indian group. For example:

Pakistani Gujjar Results: Harappa

Can't say that looking this up annoyed me .

These are Pakistani/Kashmiri Gujjars, please tell me how on earth do they look anything like Indians or Dravidians?

Firstly, I never said that Gujjars look like Indians, so the fact that you immediately denied a claim I never made, and pulled out these images as evidence to refute it, suggests that you might have some insecurities you should deal with.

Secondly, a lot of them look like typical Indians lol, so I don't even know why you chose these pictures. If you're going to fish for atypical Gujjars so that you can prove you don't look Indian, you should crop out all the people who do look typically Indian.

But why even do that? If you're so convinced that you don't look Indian, why don't you post a picture of yourself? After all, why would you care about how a bunch of people unrelated to you other than by ethnicity look like if you look like a typical Indian?

There are even Gujjars in Afghanistan

And there are Hindus and Punjabi Sikhs in Afghanistan too. Doesn't make them non-Indian, just like me living in the US doesn't make me non-Pashtun.

If Afghan Gujjars are the same people as the Indian Gujjars (there seems to be disagreement on whether they're related or not), then they're still Indians.

Also, i'm not an Indian Muhajir. My grandparents emigrated from the state of J&K which still has a distinct language, culture, ethnic groups, history, heritage and etc...

So you are an Indian Muhajir.

India is huge lol. There are plenty of distinct cultures, languages, etc in every part of India. It's not like all of India is one monolithic entity, with Kashmir being a lone, completely separate nation. But all of India, Kashmir included, shares a common heritage and cultural genesis. That's why everyone can tell an Indian when they see one.

Europe is a similar situation. There are plenty of disparate cultures across Europe, and most Europeans can easily tell themselves apart. But for everyone else, any European is a European.

As i've said Desi has more to with shared language. When I was in Canada, I saw an Afghan restaurant called "Afghan Palace" having "Desi * Pakistani * India * Persian * Afghan cuisine". It has more to do with attracting customers than actually identifying themselves as Desi.

Also please tell me more about this made-up term "Indic".

Indic - Wiktionary

And plenty of Pakistanis will call themselves Desi without any regret. Why do you guys (i.e. internet Indics) want to deny it so bad?

Please tell me what is historical India? There was never a state that went by the name of "India" before 1947, neither did anyone call themselves "Indian" before the 1800's-1850's.

"Once the water of Sind is crossed, everything is in the Hindustan way (tariq) land, water, tree, rock, people and horde, opinion and custom."

The Babur-nama in English pg. 484

[زده کوونکی]

My culture is Awadhi from Uttar Pradesh in India. Apparently I am Syed and I do have Pashtun admixture. We Muslims of Awadh ruled over the rest and if anybody puts me in the same group as Punjabis I will shoot you, make no mistake. In Pakistan, my homeland is Karachi although I am not "from" there. And all the good "Desi" foods like Nahari, Paya, Haleem, etc were originated by my people (or rather, our professional chefs) - not by jahil Punjabis. My ethnic group invented the Awadhi from of the Urdu language which is different from the Punjabi-influenced Khari Boli Urdu of Delhi. And we are the Qasbati people who have "tehzeeb" unlike the Shahri people. Unfortuntaley in recent times we have to identify as "Urdu speaking" or Muhajir (my family uses thi term) and of course you have to ask which political I support in Karachi haha