Assalamu Alaykum

[Muhammad Gujjar]

Assalamu Alaykum, I am Muhammad Gujjar; a Pakistani from Sialkot.

My grandparents were from Jammu, they were forced to leave as Jammu was undergoing a state-sponsored ethnic cleansing against Muslims. Like hundreds of thousands of other people, they found refuge in Pakistan and were granted land, citizenship and welfare by the Government.

I am from the Kashmiri Gujjar tribe/ethnicity, although; like most Pakistanis, I believe the identity of being a Pakistani and a Muslim far supersedes that of ethnic or tribal identity. I love my country and my fellow Pakistanis regardless of their color, ethnicity, culture, tribe or language.

I take great interest in history, especially the pre-Islamic history of the Indus region (includes all of Pakistan) of which I carry a lot of knowledge for. I am also fascinated by the history, cultures and languages of the various ethnic groups of Pakistan.

I'm multilingual and can speak 4 languages which is very common among Pakistanis:

International: English
National: Urdu
Provincial: Punjabi
Ethnic: Gojri

I have been swooping around this forum for several months, looking over several interesting threads.

The reason for me joining is that I have been shocked by the perceptions of Afghans towards Punjabis and Pakistanis and wish to challenge many of these misconceptions.

Many insecure ethno-nationalists on this forums call people like me (non-Pashtun Pakistanis) as racially inferior, insult us with racial slurs, refer to us as "desis, dravidians, chamars, dalits, tamils, hindus" and many other names. They also try to desperately associate us with Indians, despite us having little similarities with them (in spite of mainstream impression). I wish to 'educate' these people, show them we are not hostile and to clear up many misconceptions.

Hope to have a fun time here on this forum!

[Elias]

Asalam welcome.
By far there is only one guy Zulfiqar who gets all the nasty bashings and I think he needs a pause and has to be replaced for a moment.
Notice if you have any complaints there aren’t any Labour unions responsible for this branche.
But you may know every kind of job has its own risk.
I see you made a CV and it looks complete.
[MENTION=19435]Iblis_Efreetzai[/MENTION] what do you think does he has all the needed requirements?
If you have all the requirements and if Iblis is ok with it we will introduce you to Zulfiqar who then will integrate you into the workplace.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Hmmm, we had a lot of our Indic members go because they're annoying as fukk ....sorry he doesn't get the job ....throw him to the Lions ...

[maneatinglizard]

Wa Alaikum Salam

Welcome, but I think you’ll probably find this place very frustrating.

Also, I don’t think most of us have problems with Desis/Indics in general, it just annoys us when they adamantly deny their own identity, and instead try to associate themselves with various Central/West Asian ethnicities.

And desi, Tamil, Dravidian, etc. aren’t slurs. Desi is what you guys usually refer to yourselves in the West (I don’t know if the term is common in Pakistan/India), and the other two are ethnicities/language groups. If you’re a Gujjar, you likely have Dravidian ancestry, but aren’t Dravidian yourself. I don’t know why you dispute association with Indians, when you’re literally an Indian Muhajir.

[salman47]

Wa Alaikum Salam

Welcome, but I think you’ll probably find this place very frustrating.

Also, I don’t think most of us have problems with Desis/Indics in general, it just annoys us when they adamantly deny their own identity, and instead try to associate themselves with various Central/West Asian ethnicities.

And desi, Tamil, Dravidian, etc. aren’t slurs. Desi is what you guys usually refer to yourselves in the West (I don’t know if the term is common in Pakistan/India), and the other two are ethnicities/language groups. If you’re a Gujjar, you likely have Dravidian ancestry, but aren’t Dravidian yourself. I don’t know why you dispute association with Indians, when you’re literally an Indian Muhajir.

None of them are slurs. My pakistani friends proudly call themselves 'DESI' and anything to do with their culture.

[ذو الفقار]

Wa alaykum as-salaam and welcome Gujjar. On this forum you will have the pleasure of being referred to as an „Indic“ LOL. That is what they call us here. I’ve never even come across that term until I joined this forum that has a bizarre obsession with race and color. Nonetheless, we „Indic“ people far outnumber the Afghans and I predict that despite its name, this forum will simply come to be dominated by Indians and Pakistanis, therefore, we should broaden the conversations to more stimulating and thought provoking topics of religion and politics.

[Samandri]

Assalamu Alaykum, I am Muhammad Gujjar; a Pakistani from Sialkot.

My grandparents were from Jammu, they were forced to leave as Jammu was undergoing a state-sponsored ethnic cleansing against Muslims. Like hundreds of thousands of other people, they found refuge in Pakistan and were granted land, citizenship and welfare by the Government.

I am from the Kashmiri Gujjar tribe/ethnicity, although; like most Pakistanis, I believe the identity of being a Pakistani and a Muslim far supersedes that of ethnic or tribal identity. I love my country and my fellow Pakistanis regardless of their color, ethnicity, culture, tribe or language.

I take great interest in history, especially the pre-Islamic history of the Indus region (includes all of Pakistan) of which I carry a lot of knowledge for. I am also fascinated by the history, cultures and languages of the various ethnic groups of Pakistan.

I'm multilingual and can speak 4 languages which is very common among Pakistanis:

International: English
National: Urdu
Provincial: Punjabi
Ethnic: Gojri

I have been swooping around this forum for several months, looking over several interesting threads.

The reason for me joining is that I have been shocked by the perceptions of Afghans towards Punjabis and Pakistanis and wish to challenge many of these misconceptions.

Many insecure ethno-nationalists on this forums call people like me (non-Pashtun Pakistanis) as racially inferior, insult us with racial slurs, refer to us as "desis, dravidians, chamars, dalits, tamils, hindus" and many other names. They also try to desperately associate us with Indians, despite us having little similarities with them (in spite of mainstream impression). I wish to 'educate' these people, show them we are not hostile and to clear up many misconceptions.

Hope to have a fun time here on this forum!

As pointed out by Salman47 , "Desi" is not an insult......you people call each other Desi and refer to indigenous indic things as desi. The literal meaning of desi is country's but the term was used for any one and any thing Indic. You will come across terms Desi and Wilayati (which also means country's) in old urdu literature ......In the Mughal period "Wilayat" meant Afghanistan and Persia and "Wilayati" in 18th century was used for Afghans/Pashtuns. Later in the British period "Wilayat" was used for England. So before educating us, educate yourself first and own your Indian identity and history.

Here is Pakistani restaurant in canada by name of "Desi corner" Desi Corner Restaurant

[RightWingPakhtun]

Well Mr Kashmiri Gujar Punjabi

we have some proud pakistani pashtuns on this forum, one of them is toughtpashtun

ofcourse, we have a term for such folks , "Gul Khans", while the majority of us are "gul marjans", half of us despise gul khans and mohajirs/punjabais.

Luckily some pro-pakistani pashtuns like ToughPashtun has gained respect from fellow gul marjans, despite holding a contrasting opinion (his pakistani identity), and he probably welcomes you with open arms more than anybody.

This forum used to be riddled with hardliners

i know some people are getting annoyed by Gul Khan .... please ! Let me use gul khan, it's not even an offensive word, it's just short form for proud-pakistani Pashtun because it contains less syllables and the human brain can only memorize 7 syllables per sentence, it's the similar to the word Torie used by british loyalists in the 13 colonies of america. For anyone getting angry, you're welcome to us gul marjan or gul shah in return. Gul Shah is a new word i used for pro-persian or Persianized Afghan Pashtuns.....

so gul khan is desified or pro pakistani pashtuns
gul marjan is pro-loy afghanistan Pashtuns
gul shah is dari persianised pashtuns

simple enough?

[RightWingPakhtun]

Well the forum has improved, the members (gul marjans) that used to attack gul khans has been reduced drastically. The gul marjans on this forum are more rational to gul khans and punjabis.....

ok, so gul khan really does sound offensive just by it's annoying tone :/ ..... so i dont know what to say.

Maybe Pashtun Saheen would be a better alternative to gul khan .... to address Pashtuns identifying themselves as Pakistani in a respectful or neutral manner and not as an insult.

[maneatinglizard]

دا "ښي اړخ پښتون" کانېشکه دی

[Elias]

Well Mr Kashmiri Gujar Punjabi

we have some proud pakistani pashtuns on this forum, one of them is toughtpashtun

ofcourse, we have a term for such folks , "Gul Khans", while the majority of us are "gul marjans", half of us despise gul khans and mohajirs/punjabais.

Luckily some pro-pakistani pashtuns like ToughPashtun has gained respect from fellow gul marjans, despite holding a contrasting opinion (his pakistani identity), and he probably welcomes you with open arms more than anybody.

This forum used to be riddled with hardliners

i know some people are getting annoyed by Gul Khan .... please ! Let me use gul khan, it's not even an offensive word, it's just short form for proud-pakistani Pashtun because it contains less syllables and the human brain can only memorize 7 syllables per sentence, it's the similar to the word Torie used by british loyalists in the 13 colonies of america. For anyone getting angry, you're welcome to us gul marjan or gul shah in return. Gul Shah is a new word i used for pro-persian or Persianized Afghan Pashtuns.....

so gul khan is desified or pro pakistani pashtuns
gul marjan is pro-loy afghanistan Pashtuns
gul shah is dari persianised pashtuns

simple enough?

Shah gul sounds better.

[ذو الفقار]

What do you call a Pashtun (other than Taliban) who doesn’t fit in either of these three categories, but simply wants a revolutionary Islamic state. No matter which side of the Durand line he falls, he opposes both Afghan and Pakistani nationalism. His loyalty is solely to Islam and the Islamic movement. Gul Sheikh?

[RightWingPakhtun]

Shah gul sounds better.

for afghan pashtuns or afghans in general that reject the concept of loy afghanistan/pashtunistan .....

i say reject as they know about it and don't want it, just like Pakhtun Saheens ( a respectful way of saying gul khan)

[RightWingPakhtun]

What do you call a Pashtun (other than Taliban) who doesn’t fit in either of these three categories, but simply wants a revolutionary Islamic state. No matter which side of the Durand line he falls, he opposes both Afghan and Pakistani nationalism. His loyalty is solely to Islam and the Islamic movement. Gul Sheikh?

good point ....


Gul Marjan
Shah Gul
Pakhtun Shaheen (Gul Khan)
Gul Sheikh .....

and Gul Parangai (Pashtun in the diaspora that has lost his ethnic identity and has assimilated into American, European or Russian Culture )

and Gul Preet ( a Sikh Pashtun)

and Gul Dev (an Indianized Pashtuns)

Gul's in the spectrum of the rainbow .

[RightWingPakhtun]

What do you call a Pashtun (other than Taliban) who doesn’t fit in either of these three categories, but simply wants a revolutionary Islamic state. No matter which side of the Durand line he falls, he opposes both Afghan and Pakistani nationalism. His loyalty is solely to Islam and the Islamic movement. Gul Sheikh?

and still, most Pakhtun Shaheens (Gul Khans) are similar to that to begin with. I mean, that is partly the reason why we had pakistan, a response to the caliphate.

what Afghan pashtun is a gul sheikh? Gubbuldin hekmatyar?