What constitutes a Pashtun?

[roadrunner]

Nope, read my post again. If a person says he is a Pashtun, has a Pashtun father, grandfather or great grandfather and speaks the language, he is a Pashtun. In some cases, people don't speak the language but they will still be considered Pashtuns because of their fathers but as the generations move forward, they will stop being considered Pashtuns.

So it's paternal lineage and saying that one is Pashtun.

So why is paternal lineage important? Any idea?

There obviously will be no unique look of a Pashtun in this case, because Pashtuns could look like citizens of Mozambique. Or they may look Indian. Or Chinese.

So what is the significance of paternal lineage?

Actually, we all know who a Pashtun is and who isn't. They're your doubts that need to be satisfied.

I do have doubts about a lot of things.

It appears that you can be a Pashtun if you want to be one.

I don't mind this definition.

Firstly, define "lineage". What exactly do you mean by it? And yes, the mother's side/clan/ethnicity is not important at all.

Why wouldn't the mother's lineage be important?

You do realize that the mother contributes half the genetic material to the child, don't you?

If you erode the mother's lineage, then you erode away the entire lineage.

Both lineages would be important, surely?

roadrunner, if you would, can you answer a three questions for me?

Certainly

- What constitutes a Persian (Parsiwaan)?
- What constitutes an Arab?
- What constitutes an Englishman?

These are valid questions.

People will give you different answers.

But the question is regarding Pashtuns.

I fully agree that ethnic groups today are very mixed.

I agree. These things aren't written on marble. There's no formula like x+y+z-ax2= Pashtun that can be applied here. If roadrunner thinks he'll get this, he's mistaken.

Perhaps he can show some honestly here and define who he is and says, for example:

I am roadrunner and I am a Bulgar. X, Y and Z constitute a Bulgar. If you are A, B or C, you are not a Bulgar.

That way, it'll be easier for us to answer his questions to his satisfaction.

Doesn't this just demonstrate the illogic of genetic ethnic groupings, including the Pashtun one?

So then, is it still paternal lineage?

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

So it's paternal lineage and saying that one is Pashtun.

So why is paternal lineage important? Any idea?

There obviously will be no unique look of a Pashtun in this case, because Pashtuns could look like citizens of Mozambique. Or they may look Indian. Or Chinese.

So what is the significance of paternal lineage?



I do have doubts about a lot of things.

It appears that you can be a Pashtun if you want to be one.

I don't mind this definition.



Why wouldn't the mother's lineage be important?

You do realize that the mother contributes half the genetic material to the child, don't you?

If you erode the mother's lineage, then you erode away the entire lineage.

Both lineages would be important, surely?



Certainly



These are valid questions.

People will give you different answers.

But the question is regarding Pashtuns.

I fully agree that ethnic groups today are very mixed.



Doesn't this just demonstrate the illogic of genetic ethnic groupings, including the Pashtun one?

So then, is it still paternal lineage?

Paternal lineage is not important because of the maintenance of certain genetic traits - this isn't Nazi Germany. Paternal lineage shows that you descend from Pashtuns, that's all. You don't 'inherit' your mothers khel or tribal name so her lineage is not important.

So since you have to be someone's son or grandson (tying you to a clan/khel, tribe or a village) if you are to be generally considered a Pashtun, not just anyone can say he is a Pashtun.

[roadrunner]

Paternal lineage is not important because of the maintenance of certain genetic traits - this isn't Nazi Germany. Paternal lineage shows that you descend from Pashtuns, that's all. You don't 'inherit' your mothers khel or tribal name so her lineage is not important.

Are you serious?

You do realize that not every Pashtun is called Afridi or Yousufzai or Durrani within their respective tribes?

So by paternal lineage, it's like the tradition of the mother taking the father's surname, and so too the child.

So we have an Afridi Pashtun man. He marries a Durrani woman. The child then is an Afridi Pashtun. The child grows up and marries another Durrani woman. Their child is again an Afridi Pashtun. Their child grows up and again marries a Durrani woman. Now the child is 1/8th Afridi, and 7/8th's descended from the Durrani tribe, yet would be an Afridi.

That sounds logical.

So since you have to be someone's son or grandson (tying you to a clan/khel, tribe or a village) if you are to be generally considered a Pashtun, not just anyone can say he is a Pashtun.

Right. So you could be one millionth Pashtun, and the rest Mozambiquan, and according to you, that would be a Pashtun.

[Baygham]

Are you serious?

You do realize that not every Pashtun is called Afridi or Yousufzai or Durrani within their respective tribes?

So by paternal lineage, it's like the tradition of the mother taking the father's surname, and so too the child.

So we have an Afridi Pashtun man. He marries a Durrani woman. The child then is an Afridi Pashtun. The child grows up and marries another Durrani woman. Their child is again an Afridi Pashtun. Their child grows up and again marries a Durrani woman. Now the child is 1/8th Afridi, and 7/8th's descended from the Durrani tribe, yet would be an Afridi.

That sounds logical.



Right. So you could be one millionth Pashtun, and the rest Mozambiquan, and according to you, that would be a Pashtun.

The human genome and its mendallian genetics is and was the least concern of the pashtoons when through generations they came up with such laws/customs.
This is why they are called customs and not scientific facts.

YOu are by the way confusing with aparthied definition of a black person. In that case a total white blue eyed with black mother is black, malato, going on to the 1/8th octaroon.


Not related to the subject but reminds me of a Ghani khan sher: I forgot but it goes something like this (please correct I forgot the place he mentioned of the dam)
a dam when moves away he converts and calls himself a durrani in another town. (........pa khalsa ki durrani dhay)

[roadrunner]

The human genome and its mendallian genetics is and was the least concern of the pashtoons when through generations they came up with such laws/customs.
This is why they are called customs and not scientifical facts.

YOu are by the way confusing with aparthied definition of a black person. In that case a total white blue eyed with black mother is black, malato, going on to the 1/8th octaroon.

A white blue eyed child with a black mother is a white blue eyed child.

If the child has african features, it is a white blye-eyed african child.

In this case lineage isn't too important.

If paternal lineage was important, the black father would have a white child, and the child would be black, despite appearing white.

Which sounds a bit on the dumb side.

[Baygham]

A white blue eyed child with a black mother is a white blue eyed child.

If the child has african features, it is a white blye-eyed african child.

In this case lineage isn't too important.

If paternal lineage was important, the black father would have a white child, and the child would be black, despite appearing white.

Which sounds a bit on the dumb side.

you are right, culture and religion has dumb things in it, it is what it is. No rhyme or reason, just is.

BTW pashtoon is not concerned with genetics or looks, its about paternal lineage, that is it.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Are you serious?

You do realize that not every Pashtun is called Afridi or Yousufzai or Durrani within their respective tribes?

So by paternal lineage, it's like the tradition of the mother taking the father's surname, and so too the child.

So we have an Afridi Pashtun man. He marries a Durrani woman. The child then is an Afridi Pashtun. The child grows up and marries another Durrani woman. Their child is again an Afridi Pashtun. Their child grows up and again marries a Durrani woman. Now the child is 1/8th Afridi, and 7/8th's descended from the Durrani tribe, yet would be an Afridi.

That sounds logical.



Right. So you could be one millionth Pashtun, and the rest Mozambiquan, and according to you, that would be a Pashtun.

Every Pashtun is connected to a tribe, khel or village in one way or another.

As for paternal lineage, like I said, it has nothing to do with genetics and a man can be 1/8th Afridi (or Pashtun) and still be considered an Afridi because of his paternal lineage alone. I don't make the rules, I'm just relaying to you how it is over here. Logic has nothing to do with it.

[roadrunner]

this is the most retarded discussion I have ever seen

There is no need to comment on it then.

But from what I can see, isn't the paternal lineage requirement just as retarded?

What is the point of it? When you can be a Durrani, yet be 7/8ths an Afridi.

[roadrunner]

Every Pashtun is connected to a tribe, khel or village in one way or another.

As for paternal lineage, like I said, it has nothing to do with genetics and a man can be 1/8th Afridi (or Pashtun) and still be considered an Afridi because of his paternal lineage alone. I don't make the rules, I'm just relaying to you how it is over here. Logic has nothing to do with it.

So you would side with something illogical over something logical?

I'm not altogether against such an idea though.

Doesn't it make the ideas of tribes obsolete though, if so much mixing is allowed?

[Shehbaz Khan]

Pakhtunwali !!

[roadrunner]

Oh, memories. I look as though I'm speaking to myself in the beginning of this thread.

Your avatar looks a little down DaZahro. Everything alright?

Grade F? I would agree with some of the arguments forwarded here.

Btw. Are you the covert big mama, the silent head, of this forum? How do you become a VIP? (something I've always wanted to be)

[IamDZJ]

[torkham]

blood?

[roadrunner]

blood?

Back to square one

So it's blood? The father or the mother? If it's just the father then how does that define a Pashtun, when anyone can be one?

If it's both mother and father there's a bit more of a unique grouping there, but it's not practical. In that case no one would be a real Pashtun. It's impossible.

[Aryob]

Back to square one

So it's blood? The father or the mother? If it's just the father then how does that define a Pashtun, when anyone can be one?

If it's both mother and father there's a bit more of a unique grouping there, but it's not practical. In that case no one would be a real Pashtun. It's impossible.

cut the crap man. You can say that for any ethnicity why title it Pashtun?
A Pashtun is someone who speaks Pashto and does Pashto. Now if you don't know what means then you are not a Pashtun.