How did the Turi, Bangash, & Orakzai become Shia?

[Sarbani]

Most people that belong to the Orakzai, Turi, and Bangash tribes are Twelver Shias. When did they convert to Shiaism? Who converted them?

Anyone have any details on this (preferably with sources)?

[Kakar-Wardak]

Most orakzai are sunni, minority are shia. Bangash are 50% shia, turi 100% shia.

[Samandri]

As corrected by Kakar-Wardak, only minority of Orakzais and almost half of Bangash are Shias. To answer your question, the Shia faith in this Kohat-Kurram-Orakzai region (historically known as Bangash sarkar) was preached by Syed Fakhr-i-Alam of Gardez and his descendants. Syed fakhr-i-Alam settled in Kurram valley during the reign of Akbar. Before Shiaism, these tribes were adherent of Roshniya sect (of Pir Roshan) and it was only after decline of Roshniya movement , that Syeds (descendants of Fakhr-i-Alam) were able to convert these tribes to Shiaism.

[Sarbani]

As corrected by Kakar-Wardak, only minority of Orakzais and almost half of Bangash are Shias. To answer your question, the Shia faith in this Kohat-Kurram-Orakzai region (historically known as Bangash sarkar) was preached by Syed Fakhr-i-Alam of Gardez and his descendants. Syed fakhr-i-Alam settled in Kurram valley during the reign of Akbar. Before Shiaism, these tribes were adherent of Roshniya sect (of Pir Roshan) and it was only after decline of Roshniya movement , that Syeds (descendants of Fakhr-i-Alam) were able to convert these tribes to Shiaism.

Thanks for the response.

Who is Syed Fakhr-i-Alam? Was he just some random guy from Gardez? Any idea on his background or anything? Also, isn't Gardez a Sunni place?

Didn't the Mughals force all Roshaniyyas to convert to Sunnism or something?

Also, do you know what theological differences separated the Roshaniyya sect from other schools of Islam? Like, what do they believe that makes them different?

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Thanks for the response.

Who is Syed Fakhr-i-Alam? Was he just some random guy from Gardez? Any idea on his background or anything? Also, isn't Gardez a Sunni place?

Didn't the Mughals force all Roshaniyyas to convert to Sunnism or something?

Also, do you know what theological differences separated the Roshaniyya sect from other schools of Islam? Like, what do they believe that makes them different?

Roshaniyyah is just a version of the Suhrawardi Tariqah who were known as Ishraqiyyah. They actually are Sunni Muslims, and Follow Sunni Fiqh, but believe in the pursuit of Gnosis and the human soul becoming an inhabitation of divine presence.

[torkham]

There is a YouTube history film in Urdu (I think by 'haqaiq') that makes claims that Turi are Shia because they their ancestors were Shia Safavid (saf-weyan) some who migrated into spinghar and Pashto superseded their original (Farsi) language.

This conjecture has SOME plausible points but clearly doesn't lead to conclusive answer to OP question:

Shia Islam did indeed spread to parts of old Hind, evidenced in Pakistan the small Ismaili communities in northern areas, the Shia minority in various cities

Turi are isolated in Kuram in sea of sunnis suggests a small isolated community; Possible remnants

[Kakar-Wardak]

There is a YouTube history film in Urdu (I think by 'haqaiq') that makes claims that Turi are Shia because they their ancestors were Shia Safavid (saf-weyan) some who migrated into spinghar and Pashto superseded their original language.

Also turis are physically unimpressive by pashtun standards they are mostly short and skrawney, I doubt they are ethnic pashtuns, probabaly assimlated indics.

[torkham]

Lol short and scrawny!!

When I travelled to Dubai, for the first time I met a handful of Turi's - taxi drivers. All claimed to have moved to Dubai from Abu Dhabi - AD being staunchly anti Shia. They felt the heat and moved to Dubai. Honestly they didn't look 'Hindi' and their pashto accent was like paktiawal.

[torkham]

But they were 'secretive' and not direct when I asked in small talk 'taso kum qom ta'alak laram'

[torkham]

Ironically, the taxi drivers of Dubai who were Pashtun were mostly Wazir! Imagine the tension in their tea breaks; Turi and Wazir

[torkham]

Again, I apologise I do not have the source at hand that also claimed Turi not being 'original' Pashtun - similar is said about Burki/OrmuR

[Akbar]

i had heard that one of their leaders back in the days went to iran and came back and converted them to shiasm.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

i think it's time to put this Shi'a-Sunni nonsense behind us ....it's absurd and backwards and has severe consequences.

Letting this smear campaign, based on absurd mutual propaganda only shows how short sighted we are and that is something outsiders take advantage of.

[maneatinglizard]

There is a YouTube history film in Urdu (I think by 'haqaiq') that makes claims that Turi are Shia because they their ancestors were Shia Safavid (saf-weyan) some who migrated into spinghar and Pashto superseded their original (Farsi) language.

This conjecture has SOME plausible points but clearly doesn't lead to conclusive answer to OP question:

Shia Islam did indeed spread to parts of old Hind, evidenced in Pakistan the small Ismaili communities in northern areas, the Shia minority in various cities

Turi are isolated in Kuram in sea of sunnis suggests a small isolated community; Possible remnants

Also turis are physically unimpressive by pashtun standards they are mostly short and skrawney, I doubt they are ethnic pashtuns, probabaly assimlated indics.

Turi are supposed to be related to Zazi, and we're definitely not scrawny or Indic lol. I haven't met one, but my family has never mentioned anything about them looking different from us.

i think it's time to put this Shi'a-Sunni nonsense behind us ....it's absurd and backwards and has severe consequences.

Letting this smear campaign, based on absurd mutual propaganda only shows how short sighted we are and that is something outsiders take advantage of.

Easier said than done. There are some huge doctrinal issues between Sunnis and Ithna Asharis that are hard to overlook.

The Turis actually did get along with Sunnis in the past though. My family mentioned that before the Russians invaded Afghanistan, Turis got along with Sunnis fine. At that time they were basically Shia in name only, as their practice of Islam was Sunni. I don't know what exactly changed (the suspicion is Iranian proselytizing, but I don't think there's any concrete evidence of that), but they began fighting against the Jihadi groups and even attacking civilian Sunnis during the war.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Easier said than done. There are some huge doctrinal issues between Sunnis and Ithna Asharis that are hard to overlook.

The Turis actually did get along with Sunnis in the past though. My family mentioned that before the Russians invaded Afghanistan, Turis got along with Sunnis fine. At that time they were basically Shia in name only, as their practice of Islam was Sunni. I don't know what exactly changed (the suspicion is Iranian proselytizing, but I don't think there's any concrete evidence of that), but they began fighting against the Jihadi groups and even attacking civilian Sunnis during the war.

But come on, the people who belong to a religious path that happens to be at odd with "sunni doctirne" also happen to be short, ugly and etc etc. That's a lot of confirmation bias. But I'm not here to challenge everyone doctrines, but people's mentality about it

Perhaps it's time to bury the hatchet because, as you said Iranian Power Structure comes and tries to stir up problems like wise Pakistani institutions supporting Talibs, Gulf Arab oil money spurring ISIS and Wahhabis. Pashtuns traditionally have never been hyper doctrinal zealots. Just basic practioners (sada musulman) simple devotees with strong mystical spirit. This over infatuation with murky doctrinal issues has been curdled by foreign political enterprise and we're playing patsy to to it.

Most of the issues people squabble over are based on things that are largely speculation, first hand accounts muddied in a sea of biased retellings. In truth no one really knows, so why should we have to constantly relive some conflict that happened 15 centuries ago?

All the lives needlessly lost over it, families torn apart for it. Let's Focus on God the creator, the Essence of our Prophet's Teachings, which is Justice guided with Mercy. Social ethics. The most beautiful teachings of Nabi(saw) get ignored and the things he emphasized the least become battlegrounds. It's madness.

It might be easier said than done, but at some point it has to be done or we'll just turn into Iraq or Syria. We've already been put through the ringer. No more of this stuff.