Afghanistan's Ethnic Groups Share a Y-Chromosomal Heritage

[Afghanfootball]

Pashtuns, Tajiks, Hazara, and Uzbeks genetics show a Y Chromosomal Heritage. After reading it seems to me like Uzbeks and Hazara are the most similar and Pashtuns and Tajiks are the most similar. Also Uzbeks and Hazara have a strong connection to East Asia so i'm guessing they both have Mongol ancestry and probably mixed in with the people in Afghanistan. Also Tajiks and Pashtuns have the very similar genetics im guessing that we are actually the same people and are both natives to the land (im not they're less afghan though). What do you guys think?

Here's the link to the article: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0034288

[Kushan Prince]

Meh, i think many Tajiks are just Persianized Pashtuns (not all but some) who just adopted farsi over pashto during the time of the Persian empire and since Tajik just means "Persian speaker," it makes sense. I still however believe many have roots coming from northern central asia like Tajikistan and eastern Uzbekistan.

That article has been quoted into wikipedia as well btw.

[25tajik75pashtun]

Meh, i think many Tajiks are just Persianized Pashtuns (not all but some) who just adopted farsi over pashto during the time of the Persian empire and since Tajik just means "Persian speaker," it makes sense. I still however believe many have roots coming from northern central asia like Tajikistan and eastern Uzbekistan.

That article has been quoted into wikipedia as well btw.

Other way around, pashtuns were simply a tribe known or believed to have been the pactyans that attained dominance some time during the era of Mahmud of Ghazni so a lot of pashtuns today were not originally whoever the predecessor to pashtuns were at the time so in a way most people referred to as pashtuns were originally something else before pashtuns spread in a way. It's true however that pashtuns in afghanistan and tajiks in afghanistan are very closely related genetically moreso to one another than to tajiks in tajikistan or pashtuns in pakistan.
And even persians in iran were called tajiks in the 1850s all the way up until the early 1900s before a distinction between persian (farsi speaker, often 12er shia from iran) and tajik (farsi speakers, often sunni not in iran) was made.

And what "persian empire"? The only persian empires to ever exist were the achaemenids and the sassanids, ever since then they've been ruled by non-persians.

[Kushan Prince]

Other way around, pashtuns were simply a tribe known or believed to have been the pactyans that attained dominance some time during the era of Mahmud of Ghazni so a lot of pashtuns today were not originally whoever the predecessor to pashtuns were at the time so in a way most people referred to as pashtuns were originally something else before pashtuns spread in a way. It's true however that pashtuns in afghanistan and tajiks in afghanistan are very closely related genetically moreso to one another than to tajiks in tajikistan or pashtuns in pakistan.
And even persians in iran were called tajiks in the 1850s all the way up until the early 1900s before a distinction between persian (farsi speaker, often 12er shia from iran) and tajik (farsi speakers, often sunni not in iran) was made.

And what "persian empire"? The only persian empires to ever exist were the achaemenids and the sassanids, ever since then they've been ruled by non-persians.

This post literally makes no sense lol. Pashtuns in Afghanistan are more related to Pashtuns in Pakistan then they are to tajiks. Many Tajiks in Afghanistan are really nothing more than persianized Pashtuns, that's why they come close sometimes on genetic scales, don't see why this bothers you so much.

There is no such thing as a "Tajik" ethnic group.

[25tajik75pashtun]

This post literally makes no sense lol. Pashtuns in Afghanistan are more related to Pashtuns in Pakistan then they are to tajiks.

There is no such thing as a "Tajik" ethnic group.

You might have misinterpreted what I said, just take a look at genetic studies, on the PCA plots pashtuns and tajiks from afghanistan cluster a lot closer to one another than they do with their counterparts from the neighboring countries with tajiks having more of a pull towards west asian and pashtuns to south asian.

And I agree, tajiks are not an ethnic group - it's more of an ethno-linguistic group and the same definitely applies to pashtuns given the number of pashtunized groups especially found in pakistan. It's why many tajiks look different from one another, it's why many pashtuns look like they're from opposite sides of the planet - the same of course applies to persians.

Many Tajiks in Afghanistan are really nothing more than persianized Pashtuns,

Nope, persianization never happened on a genetic level but it did happen on a cultural level with the people of pars' culture and language becoming dominant over the now extinct iranian groups like the medes, parthians and bactrians all of which adopted or at least identified with the newly dominating pars' identity and 'persian' just like tajik or pashtun is again, an ethno-linguistic label.

[Kushan Prince]

You might have misinterpreted what I said, just take a look at genetic studies, on the PCA plots pashtuns and tajiks from afghanistan cluster a lot closer to one another than they do with their counterparts from the neighboring countries with tajiks having more of a pull towards west asian and pashtuns to south asian.

And I agree, tajiks are not an ethnic group - it's more of an ethno-linguistic group and the same definitely applies to pashtuns given the number of pashtunized groups especially found in pakistan. It's why many tajiks look different from one another, it's why many pashtuns look like they're from opposite sides of the planet - the same of course applies to persians.


Nope, persianization never happened on a genetic level but it did happen on a cultural level with the people of pars' culture and language becoming dominant over the now extinct iranian groups like the medes, parthians and bactrians all of which adopted or at least identified with the newly dominating pars' identity and 'persian' just like tajik or pashtun is again, an ethno-linguistic label.

You might have misinterpreted what I said, just take a look at genetic studies, on the PCA plots pashtuns and tajiks from Afghanistan cluster a lot closer to one another than they do with their counterparts from the neighbouring countries with tajiks having more of a pull towards west asian and pashtuns to south asian.

I understood perfectly what you said, but i don't think you understand is that the cluster is closer due to persianization, afghanistan at one point was all pashto speaking. Which would mean the many so called "Tajiks" are basically Pashtuns who adopted a different culture and language. Similar to how many kurds in Iraq are believed to be "Assimliiated" Assyrians, or how many Turks in Turkey are believed to "Turkfied" Antolians.

Nope, persianization never happened on a genetic level but it did happen on a cultural level with the people of pars' culture and language becoming dominant over the now extinct iranian groups like the medes, parthians and bactrians all of which adopted or at least identified with the newly dominating pars' identity and 'persian' just like tajik or pashtun is again, an ethno-linguistic label

I agree, it was all cultural, never really a genetic one. But Pashtuns are an ethnic group, a Pashtun is identified by his tribe, not language and thats why Pashtuns from both Afg and Pakistan share genetic similarities and are classified as "homogenous" by many anthropologists with of course with a bit of mixing here and there. Many Pashtuns are persianized in kabul and other central cities who are now considered "Tajik" to an extent.

[25tajik75pashtun]

afghanistan at one point was all pashto speaking

well here I was hoping I'd get a fruitful discussion but if this is what you believe then i'm out, what you said about turks/assyrians/kurds yada yada applies but not in the context or manner you're assuming or implying
pashtuns and tajiks cluster together simply on the basis that their ancestors were more or less very related iranic groups, namely the bactrians (for tajiks), arachosians (for pashtuns) and a few other minor ones - there's a common descent of sorts going on which explains the similarity in genetics especially when compared to neighboring ethnic/ethno-linguistic groups in the area.

classified as "homogenous" by many anthropologists

funny because every academic study I've gone out of my way to read about pashtuns stresses that they're a heterogenous group with differing origins depending on geographical location as well as tribal affiliation. I'm out for real this time.

Many Pashtuns are persianized in kabul and other central cities who are now considered "Tajik" to an extent.

listen m8, there's no such thing as 'persianization' of anyone in afghanistan especially on a genetic level. Anybody can become a tajik or a persian - the same applies to pashtuns though it's a little harder or more arduous of a process.

[Kushan Prince]

well here I was hoping I'd get a fruitful discussion but if this is what you believe then i'm out


funny because every academic study I've gone out of my way to read about pashtuns stresses that they're a heterogenous group with differing origins depending on geographical location as well as tribal affiliation. I'm out for real this time.


listen m8, there's no such thing as 'persianization' of anyone in afghanistan especially on a genetic level. Anybody can become a tajik or a persian - the same applies to pashtuns though it's a little harder or more arduous of a process.

well here I was hoping I'd get a fruitful discussion but if this is what you believe then i'm out

Whats the problem here? Pashto is a direct descendant of Avestan and Avestan came from North of Afghanistan.

funny because every academic study I've gone out of my way to read about Pashtuns stresses that they're a heterogenous group with differing origins depending on geographical location as well as tribal affiliation. I'm out for real this time.

Post these studies, i want to read them. All the sources i have read indicate that they are Homogenous since they are tribal. Tribal people who know their origins will be genetically closer to each other than those who identify by language.

listen m8, there's no such thing as 'persianization' of anyone in afghanistan especially on a genetic level. Anybody can become a tajik or a persian - the same applies to pashtuns though it's a little harder or more arduous of a process

It did happen and learn to read, i never claimed it was a genetic one but a cultural one. I think thats something we can both agree on.

[25tajik75pashtun]

Whats the problem here? Pashto is a direct descendant of Avestan and Avestan came from North of Afghanistan.

one of the descedants of avestan - old persian and sanskrit are a lot more related to avestan and each and one another than pashto currently is - and avestan was not from the north of afghanistan it was from the north western area of afghanistan, parts of uzbekistan and part of eastern iran, read up a little on avestan geography

Post these studies, i want to read them. All the sources i have read indicate that they are Homogenous since they are tribal. Tribal people who know their origins will be genetically closer to each other than those who identify by language.

tbh I don't have the time or patience to go and find them again, but if you're telling me a pashtun who identifies as an ahmadzai and another who identifies as a alokozai are 100% from the same ethnic heritage then you're wrong

It did happen and learn to read, i never claimed it was a genetic one but a cultural one. I think thats something we can both agree on.

The only 'persianization' that happened was the adoption of the language of pars by the majority of medes, parthians, bactrians so on and so forth and even then it's noted that they spoke very similar languages akin to differing dialects rather than an entirely different lexicon, new persian was formed mainly in the balkh/khorasan area of afghanistan in a period in time during which arabic was steadily gaining ground and favor amongst the inhabitants of central and western iran (i.e. disincluding eastern iran) so the notion of persianization fails here

[Kushan Prince]

one of the descedants of avestan - old persian and sanskrit are a lot more related to avestan and each and one another than pashto currently is - and avestan was not from the north of afghanistan it was from the north western area of afghanistan, parts of uzbekistan and part of eastern iran, read up a little on avestan geography



tbh I don't have the time or patience to go and find them again, but if you're telling me a pashtun who identifies as an ahmadzai and another who identifies as a alokozai are 100% from the same ethnic heritage then you're wrong


The only 'persianization' that happened was the adoption of the language of pars by the majority of medes, parthians, bactrians so on and so forth and even then it's noted that they spoke very similar languages akin to differing dialects rather than an entirely different lexicon, new persian was formed mainly in the balkh/khorasan area of afghanistan in a period in time during which arabic was steadily gaining ground and favor amongst the inhabitants of central and western iran (i.e. disincluding eastern iran) so the notion of persianization fails here

one of the descedants of avestan - old persian and sanskrit are a lot more related to avestan and each and one another than pashto currently is - and avestan was not from the north of afghanistan it was from the north western area of afghanistan, parts of uzbekistan and part of eastern iran, read up a little on avestan geography

Nonsense. Old Persian came form Palahvi and it has no relation to Avestan which is an Eastern Iranian language. And no, Pashto indeed comes from Avestan, i'm not saying this but linguists say this, and Avestan came from Southern Bactira which is today modern day Northern Afghanistan. This could indicate that Pashtuns originated from there as well.

tbh I don't have the time or patience to go and find them again, but if you're telling me a pashtun who identifies as an ahmadzai and another who identifies as a alokozai are 100% from the same ethnic heritage then you're wrong

You can't find them because you don't have them lol. Your not Pashtun so i don't expect you to realize how close Pashtuns from different tribes are to each other.

The only 'persianization' that happened was the adoption of the language of pars by the majority of medes, parthians, bactrians so on and so forth and even then it's noted that they spoke very similar languages akin to differing dialects rather than an entirely different lexicon, new persian was formed mainly in the balkh/khorasan area of afghanistan in a period in time during which arabic was steadily gaining ground and favor amongst the inhabitants of central and western iran (i.e. disincluding eastern iran) so the notion of persianization fails here[

If this helps you sleep at night, than go ahead believe it. But both you and i know that neither old or new persian originated from Afghanistan.

[25tajik75pashtun]

Nonsense. Old Persian came form Palahvi and it has no relation to Avestan which is an Eastern Iranian language. And no, Pashto indeed comes from Avestan, i'm not saying this but linguists say this, and Avestan came from Southern Bactira which is today modern day Northern Afghanistan. This could indicate that Pashtuns originated from there as well.

All iranic groups originated from central asia and avestan is not an eastern iranian nor an iranian language. Pashto is vaguely related to avestan - that is what the linguists agree upon, in studies of lexicons there are more words in farsi related to avestan, hell I have a friend who's a parsi (zoroastrian from india) who speaks avestan and says it sounds a lot more like farsi than it does pashto. And avestan does not come from southern bactria, read up on avestan geography as I said once again.

I'm out again, this place is filled with idiots tbh

You can't find them because you don't have them lol. Your not Pashtun so i don't expect you to realize how close Pashtuns from different tribes are to each other.

I can speak the language and write it a lot better than you can probably.

If this helps you sleep at night, than go ahead believe it. But both you and i know that neither old or new persian originated from Afghanistan.

>New Persian developed from the 8th century on as an independent literary language.[44] Upon the decline of the Caliphate at Baghdad in the 9th century began the re-establishment of Persian national life and Persians laid the foundations for a renaissance in the realm of letters. New Persian was born in Bactria through the adaptation of the spoken form of Sassanian Middle Persian court language called Dari. The cradle of the Persian literary renaissance lay in the east of Greater Iran, in the Greater Khorasan and Transoxiana regions close to the river Amu Darya.[45]
mm hmm

[Kushan Prince]

All iranic groups originated from central asia and avestan is not an eastern iranian nor an iranian language. Pashto is vaguely related to avestan - that is what the linguists agree upon, in studies of lexicons there are more words in farsi related to avestan, hell I have a friend who's a parsi (zoroastrian from india) who speaks avestan and says it sounds a lot more like farsi than it does pashto. And avestan does not come from southern bactria, read up on avestan geography as I said once again.

I'm out again, this place is filled with idiots tbh


I can speak the language and write it a lot better than you can probably.




>New Persian developed from the 8th century on as an independent literary language.[44] Upon the decline of the Caliphate at Baghdad in the 9th century began the re-establishment of Persian national life and Persians laid the foundations for a renaissance in the realm of letters. New Persian was born in Bactria through the adaptation of the spoken form of Sassanian Middle Persian court language called Dari. The cradle of the Persian literary renaissance lay in the east of Greater Iran, in the Greater Khorasan and Transoxiana regions close to the river Amu Darya.[45]
mm hmm

All iranic groups originated from central asia and avestan is not an eastern iranian nor an iranian language. Pashto is vaguely related to avestan - that is what the linguists agree upon, in studies of lexicons there are more words in farsi related to avestan, hell I have a friend who's a parsi (zoroastrian from india) who speaks avestan and says it sounds a lot more like farsi than it does pashto. And avestan does not come from southern bactria, read up on avestan geography as I said once again.

LOL your a moron. Avestan isn't and Iranian language? yes it is, and it is classified as Eastern Iranian.

Avestan /əˈvɛstən/,[2] formerly also known as "Zend", is an Iranian language of the Eastern Iranian division, known only from its use as the language of Zoroastrian scripture,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avestan_language

>New Persian developed from the 8th century on as an independent literary language.[44] Upon the decline of the Caliphate at Baghdad in the 9th century began the re-establishment of Persian national life and Persians laid the foundations for a renaissance in the realm of letters. New Persian was born in Bactria through the adaptation of the spoken form of Sassanian Middle Persian court language called Dari. The cradle of the Persian literary renaissance lay in the east of Greater Iran, in the Greater Khorasan and Transoxiana regions close to the river Amu Darya.[45]
mm hmm

Lol you quoted this from wikipedia and that part has no citaiton meaning someone has written that out of the blue to fit his own opinion. Probably you. And Dari is a Pashto word for Farsi that didn't exist until 1962.

I'm out again, this place is filled with idiots tbh

I think you should leave, you have embarassed your self far enough.

[25tajik75pashtun]

LOL your a moron. Avestan isn't and Iranian language? yes it is, and it is classified as Eastern Iranian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avestan_language

Lol you quoted this from wikipedia and that part has no citaiton meaning someone has written that out of the blue to fit his own opinion. Probably you. And Dari is a Pashto word for Farsi that didn't exist until 1962.




I think you should leave, you have embarassed your self far enough.

Old Avestan is closely related to Old Persian and also in some extent close in nature to Vedic Sanskrit.[9] It is believed that it might be close to ancestor dialect of Pashto as well.[10]
Nothing I said is wrong, and it is believed to be an ancestor to pashto by an iranian source, lol.

Those citations have exactly what was written and that's a protected article you cannot edit. Dari is a pashto word? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, your entire post is filled with misinformation it honestly amuses me, all you're doing is making potential lurkers think all pashtuns are as retarded and uneducated as you. I think I'm done with this place. Maybe in a few years you'll be more well read.

[Kushan Prince]

Old Avestan is closely related to Old Persian and also in some extent close in nature to Vedic Sanskrit.[9] It is believed that it might be close to ancestor dialect of Pashto as well.[10]
Nothing I said is wrong, and it is believed to be an ancestor to pashto by an iranian source, lol.

Those citations have exactly what was written and that's a protected article you cannot edit. Dari is a pashto word? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, your entire post is filled with misinformation it honestly amuses me, all you're doing is making potential lurkers think all pashtuns are as retarded and uneducated as you. I think I'm done with this place. Maybe in a few years you'll be more well read.

You can edit it by making an account dofus. Also the same Dari article on wikipedia says that Tajiks are 50% in Afghanistan, which is very laughable. You people are a joke, editing wikipedia articles to make yourselves feel better and than claiming history you never had and the fact that you don't even speak your original language makes it even more funny. Pathetic.

ANd yeah, Dari was first coined in 1962 by the Afghan government to differ it from Farsi, when in reality, Farsi and Dari are the same thing. Changing 1 letter won't make a difference.

I honestly think you have been lurking here this whole time, as soon as i mentioned tajiks, you came running to this thread like a rabid dog. Honestly, you should just leave now.

[25tajik75pashtun]

You can edit it by making an account dofus. Also the same Dari article on wikipedia says that Tajiks are 50% in Afghanistan, which is very laughable. You people are a joke, editing wikipedia articles to make yourselves feel better and than claiming history you never had and the fact that you don't even speak your original language makes it even more funny. Pathetic.

ANd yeah, Dari was first coined in 1962 by the Afghan government to differ it from Farsi, when in reality, Farsi and Dari are the same thing. Changing 1 letter won't make a difference.

I honestly think you have been lurking here this whole time, as soon as i mentioned tajiks, you came running to this thread like a rabid dog. Honestly, you should just leave now.

Then check the editing history, and you think I'm unaware that farsi was referred to as dari for political purposes? I literally opened the site up tonight since I'm bored and my gf is with her parents and quite literally I had nothing else to do.

Honestly I just find it funny to find racism by you against tajiks who are not only your countrymen but one of the sources of knowledge of the very religion the other guy here is so adamant on following.

I'm out for real this time, don't bother replying. Not even sure why I want to have any sort of discussion here with educated buffoons.