Origins of the Ghilzai tribe?

[Kushan Prince]

There are some speculations surrounding the origins of the Ghilzai pashtun tribe. I'm hearing by a lot of people that they are Turks, Wikipedia doesn't mention anything about this but i don't trust that as a reliable source. Can anyone give me an articulate proof or mentions from various history book?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

we're certainly not natives to Afghanistan

I'm a Hotak Ghilzai

[یاسمینه]

There are some speculations surrounding the origins of the Ghilzai pashtun tribe. I'm hearing by a lot of people that they are Turks, Wikipedia doesn't mention anything about this but i don't trust that as a reliable source. Can anyone give me an articulate proof or mentions from various history book?

W. Bellew, Journal of a Political Mission to Afghanistan in 1857 under Major (Now Colonel) Lumsden, with an Account of the Country and the People, London 1862, p. 52 - this source says that Bellew in Kandahar, in the library of Ghulam Khaydar Khan saw 7 manuscripts about history of Afghanistan. Two of them were in Pashto, rest in Farsi. All of them pointed that Ghor was the cradle of Pashtuns.

W. W. Barthold says that Turkish tribe called Khalaj lived not far from Ghor. At that time Ghor was inhabited by Pashtuns and Mountain Tajiks. With time, Khalajis lost their identity, assimilated with Pashtuns, adopted Pashto language and became a part of Pashtuns' genealogy. Ghilzai are considered to be descendants of Khalaj tribe.
в.в. бартольд сочинения, москва 1971, t. VII, p. 511

[یاسمینه]

I'm hearing by a lot of people that they are Turks, Wikipedia doesn't mention anything about this but i don't trust that as a reliable source.

If it comes to Central Asian matters, Wikipedia rarely refers to the Russian sources. Before Russian invaded Afghanistan, they very well described Afghan history, culture and languages. Rusian-Pashto dictionaries are still considered to be the best ever. The Russians were perfectly prepared for the invasion and they knew a lot about Afghanistan. Since the early 70's they endowed scholarships for thousands of Afghans, while leading "investigations" about their culture and languages.
Because of the Cold War, Russia's works were not known in the West. Later, when America invaded Afghanistan, American started writting their books. But they didn't have much experience.

Russian langue is a must for someone who wants to know more about Central Asia.

[Kushan Prince]

we're certainly not natives to Afghanistan

I'm a Hotak Ghilzai

RTR, are you really a Ghilzai? Because most ghilzai's get mad when they are told they are actually turks. They don't belive it.

[Tjanaparh]

You should be able to research that on genetical analysis I think

[RevolutionThroughReason]

RTR, are you really a Ghilzai? Because most ghilzai's get mad when they are told they are actually turks. They don't belive it.

Maybe but i'm a bit more evolved and intellectually more developed than most Pashtuns in general.

I embrace facts as they are not the ones I want there to be. If we're Turks then fine we're Turks

[Midnight_Sun]

Ghilzai Pashtuns were related by ancient scholars to the Khalaj, a Turkic tribe, that has split off and had different customs from other Turks. But that is not where the story ends. Their affinity and closest neighbors were the Tajiks and the Pakhtuns. Later scholars would say there is virtually no different between the Ghilzai and the Pashtun. The Ghorids kings had the last name Suri, which also falls under the Ghilzai confederation.

Older Islamic historians related the Khalaj to the Hephtalites that ruled throughout Tokharistan.

The Hephtalites themselves were said to have originated from the Himalaya mountains. If you look at their dispersal pattern, it looks like it centers northwest of the Himalayas, west of Kashgar in the steppe-land frontiers.

Anthropologists believe they were remnants of the Saka and Tocharian confederations that invaded Afghanistan centuries earlier considering their peculiar affinities (polyandry), Indo-Iranic and Turkic names. They also seem to have worshipped not only the sun, but Ormuzh, and Mitra.

The Saka were related to the ancient Proto-Indo-European cultures that spread across Central Asia. These are well attested with burial mounds, etc.

So there you have it:

Ghilzai Pashtuns: PIE->Saka->Hunified->Turkified->Turned Afghan

[Tjanaparh]

Ghilzai Pashtuns were related by ancient scholars to the Khalaj, a Turkic tribe, that has split off and had different customs from other Turks. Their affinity and closest neighbors were the Tajiks and the Pakhtuns.

Older Islamic historians related the Khalaj to the Hephtalites that ruled throughout Tokharistan.

The Hephtalites themselves were said to have originated from the Himalaya mountains. If you look at their dispersal pattern, it looks like it centers northwest of the Himalayas, west of Kashgar in the steppe-land frontiers.

Anthropologists believe they were remnants of the Saka and Tocharian confederations that invaded Afghanistan centuries earlier considering their peculiar affinities (polyandry), Indo-Iranic and Turkic names. They also seem to have worshipped not only the sun, but Ormuzh, and Mitra.

The Saka were related to the ancient Proto-Indo-European cultures that spread across Central Asia. These are well attested with burial mounds, etc.

So there you have it:

PIE->Saka->Hunified->Turkified->Turned Afghan

Are there any genetical studies on Ghilzai to your knowledge?

[Midnight_Sun]

There are some speculations surrounding the origins of the Ghilzai pashtun tribe. I'm hearing by a lot of people that they are Turks, Wikipedia doesn't mention anything about this but i don't trust that as a reliable source. Can anyone give me an articulate proof or mentions from various history book?

I have some book references that will show it:

History of Civilizations of Central Asia, Volume II, III and IV
The Pathans by Sir Olaf Caroe
Hudud al Alam
History of the Ghaznavids
History of the Later Ghaznavids
Empires of the Steppes: History of Central Asia (Hephtalite origins)

I own all these books, but sorry I'm not near by my books right now.

[Kushan Prince]

Older Islamic historians related the Khalaj to the Hephtalites that ruled throughout Tokharistan.

The Hephtalites themselves were said to have originated from the Himalaya mountains. If you look at their dispersal pattern, it looks like it centers northwest of the Himalayas, west of Kashgar in the steppe-land frontiers.


Ghilzai Pashtuns: PIE-

But aren't the Abdali's descendants of the Hephtalities also? All Pashtuns are.

[Midnight_Sun]

Are there any genetical studies on Ghilzai to your knowledge?

Just mine I am Ghilzai, paternally. This is my genetic makeup:

Amarkhel - Ghilzai (Paternal)
Arghandi - Ghilzai (Paternal)
Kharoti - Ghilzai (Paternal)
Tarakhel - Ghilzai (Maternal)
Mohammadzai - Durrani (Maternal)
Jaghuri - Mongol-Turkic (Maternal)
Alokozai - Durrani (Maternal)


My paternal genetics are: R1a1a1b2a, Z93+ Z94+, Z2123-, Z2122-, L657-

Here is where the Amarkhel Ghilzai fall among the Genetic line:

[Kushan Prince]

I also read that they come from Qais like all pashtuns, here's the quote mentioning this.

"Ḡalzī tribal genealogies in general trace their early descent from the union of either Shah Ḥosayn, a Ghurid (q.v.) prince, and Bībī Mātō, a granddaughter of Qays ʿAbd al-Rašīd, the putative ancestor of all Pashtuns, or Mokarram Shah, a Pashtun prince from Ḡūr, and the daughter of a Persian notable..."

—M. Jamil Hanifi

[یاسمینه]

The Pathans by Caroe should be somewhere in the kitabtoon.

[Midnight_Sun]

But aren't the Abdali's descendants of the Hephtalities also? All Pashtuns are.

There's no direct evidence that the Abdalis are related to the Hephtalites. The only relation there is, are that the names sound familiar, but remember his real last name was Sadozai. It can not be ruled out though, since they resided in Kandahar, which was occupied by Ghilzai and other Pashtuns.

Pashtuns and Afghans were both attested in the region over one thousand years before the Ghilzais arrived on the scene. They were attested by the Indians as a Kamboja (Horsemen) tribe, and they resided in Gandhara for a very long time. They also mixed with the Kushans, who came from the same region as the Hephtalites, centuries before.

When they met again centuries later in Afghanistan, it is no surprise they had a lot in common, and merged with ease.