Pashtun Macedonian link

[roadrunner]

^thats very interesting Apollyon. thanks for posting these.

[Wahe Guru]

Greetings,

I don't know if this has been discussed but Pashtuns/Pathans are linked with Macedonian's of Alexander the Great.

..Among the three Pakistani populations claiming Greek descent, this clade was observed only in the Pathans. The Pathan samples belonged to clade E3b1 that constituted 17% of the Greek samples.

..The Pathans were the only population among the three that claim Greek ancestry in which clade E was present.

Nevertheless, Alexander's army of 25 000–30 000 mercenary foot soldiers from Persia and West Asia and 5000–7000 Macedonian cavalry perhaps provides a more likely explanation because of their elite status and substantial political impact on the region.

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...726a.html#tbl2

Dont make me laugh buddy. Pashtuns/Pathans have nothing much to do with Greeks or Alexander or Macedonians. So what if clade E is present in some Pashtuns? Those Pashtuns will still be closely related to other Pashtuns who do not have clade E.

While you are here, when I was in Athens I saw some brutal looking short stocky dark brown natives. They were near that hill which goes up to the Acropolis. Honestly I have not seen such people anywhere in West Europe or even in Asia, they looked almost like Neanderthals. I assume they were some kind of Greeks. Who would they be?

Lastly some Greeks would come up to me and start talking in Greek to which I could only reply in English as they would not understand Punjabi. Might have been because I am one of those handful of Punjabis who are not brown/black (lol) as Pashtuns always claim to see Punjabis.

[roadrunner]

While you are here, when I was in Athens I saw some brutal looking short stocky dark brown natives. They were near that hill which goes up to the Acropolis.

Relations of yours perhaps?

Seriously, there's no reason to be laughing. it is well known Alexander moved many people from Macedonia to the Pashtun lands in Eastern Afghanistan and Western Pakistan. If you find the articles to be wrong, perhaps you'd explain why they're wrong?

[JattApache]

Dont make me laugh buddy. Pashtuns/Pathans have nothing much to do with Greeks or Alexander or Macedonians. So what if clade E is present in some Pashtuns? Those Pashtuns will still be closely related to other Pashtuns who do not have clade E.

While you are here, when I was in Athens I saw some brutal looking short stocky dark brown natives. They were near that hill which goes up to the Acropolis. Honestly I have not seen such people anywhere in West Europe or even in Asia, they looked almost like Neanderthals. I assume they were some kind of Greeks. Who would they be?

Lastly some Greeks would come up to me and start talking in Greek to which I could only reply in English as they would not understand Punjabi. Might have been because I am one of those handful of Punjabis who are not brown/black (lol) as Pashtuns always claim to see Punjabis.

Well generally, indian punjabis are more dark than the pakistanis punjabis

Anyway, pashtuns have certainly greek blood on them ( but a very few, like 3 or 5% ), but they also have south asian blood and we can clearly see that on peshawari pashtuns or karzai etc....

Btw the punjabis also look down upon the other indians

[roadrunner]

try not to turn this into a punjabi/indian thread, please. open another one. it was useful at one point.

Karzai doesnt look particularly south asian.

[Wahe Guru]

Relations of yours perhaps?

Seriously, there's no reason to be laughing. it is well known Alexander moved many people from Macedonia to the Pashtun lands in Eastern Afghanistan and Western Pakistan. If you find the articles to be wrong, perhaps you'd explain why they're wrong?

Not my relations. Go to Athens sometime and I am sure you will see a few of the brutal looking guys. Thats why I seriously asked who they might have been? They appeared to be visitors and not from Athens and all were men. Luckily none of their women with them (would not be a great sight).

How do you know Alexander moved many people from Macedonia to the Pashtun lands? There is no such proof. He had a smallish army and any of their trace would long have mixed in with the crowd.

Greeks (and Romans) were living and settled far longer and larger numbers in places like Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria plus of course Turkey, yet not many natives there claim to be Greek or Roman.

[roadrunner]

But the reality is that there was an active program of settlement even in the easternmost satrapies, with Greek colonists moving to Bactria, and other regions, over the course of many — hundreds? — years.

http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/cqtwo/2008/06/04/greek-settlement-in-afghanistan-and-the-bactrian-mirage/

It's difficult to explain the rest to you since you dont seem to know the basics of population movement.

[Wahe Guru]

Well generally, indian punjabis are more dark than the pakistanis punjabis

Anyway, pashtuns have certainly greek blood on them ( but a very few, like 3 or 5% ), but they also have south asian blood and we can clearly see that on peshawari pashtuns or karzai etc....

Btw the punjabis also look down upon the other indians

Anybody can look down upon anyone else. If a German or Nigerian looks down upon me then I look down upon them. Hope u get what I mean.

"indian punjabis are more dark than the pakistanis punjabis" - A Pakistani Punjabi said that to me whilst talking to my face and he was darker than me. If it is true (that's a big IF) then there are likely to be some other reasons for it rather than Alexander's soldiers mixed into them. But let us not get into that here.

How do you know all this when you are from Delhi? OK your family came from Gujranwala. Incidentally so was that guy telling me to my face. He was a Gujjar from that way (Gujrat district I forget his town).

Maybe Peshawari Pashtuns are the real Pashtuns and the others are the mixed ones?

[JattApache]

Anybody can look down upon anyone else. If a German or Nigerian looks down upon me then I look down upon them. Hope u get what I mean.

"indian punjabis are more dark than the pakistanis punjabis" - A Pakistani Punjabi said that to me whilst talking to my face and he was darker than me. If it is true (that's a b. there are likely to be some other reasons for it rather than Alexander's soldiers mixed into them. But let us not get into that here.

How do you know all this when you are from Delhi? OK your family came from Gujranwala. Incidentally so was that guy telling me to my face. He was a Gujjar from that way (Gujrat district I forget his t

Maybe Peshawari Pashtuns are the real Pashtuns and the others are the mixed ones?

I had learn it by internet, but yeah i had never seen a pakistani for real but i think that in average, they. Are more fair because of their muslims neighbours

[randolph85]

if its true, the blood is far too mixed to even matter thousands of years later. what matters is now. take a pashtun and put him in a macedonian population and he will stand out, same thing the other way around.

[roadrunner]

i doubt you'd pick him out.

[Apollyon]

if its true, the blood is far too mixed to even matter thousands of years later. what matters is now. take a pashtun and put him in a macedonian population and he will stand out, same thing the other way around.

According to Greek historians the Persians were considered white and Greeks darker complexion probably from roaming the deserts in battle, hence the terms "white indian" Arachosia-Pashtuns.

Macedonian-Greek-Pashtun are of Mediterranean phenotype Eurepoid with pockets of Nordic attributes in all communities, which Afghans themselves consider.

.. physically they are more of a Mediterranean Caucasian people.
http://www.afghanembassy.com.pl/cms/.../ethnic-groups

Alexander of Macedonia similar in bone structure Roman nose.



..the Greek historian Herodotus mentioned a people called Pactyans living in the same area..The Arians carried Median bows, but in other respects were equipped like the Bactrians. Their commander was Sisamnes the son of Hydarnes..The Pactyans wore cloaks of skin, and carried the bow of their country and the dagger. Their commander was Artyntes, the son of Ithamatres..The Utians, the Mycians, and the Paricanians were all equipped like the Pactyans. They had for leaders, Arsamenes, the son of Darius, who commanded the Utians and Mycians; and Siromitres, the son of Oeobazus, who commanded the Paricanians.

http://www.piney.com/Heredotus7.html

[roadrunner]

^The "mediterranean phenotype" is a discredited term that has no meaning. All it means is "darker than white skin, blue eyes and blonde hair.

The "teutonic phenptype" is just as bad. It has no meaning either referring to blonde hair and blue eyes. You could be half black and still be teutonic or alpine.

[Apollyon]

Most certainly has meaning. Initial Migration from Kurgan into Baltics and Central Asian carrying culture and linguistics. Light complexion green eyes are not uncommen.

..It seemed to him that certain Caucasian countries presented to the eye what he believed to be the extreme and perfect form of the Caucasian race, the handsome high-featured people best known in this country as the Jewish type. All who were acquainted with the north of India would testify to the great predominance of a very handsome type of this kind among the Afghans and peoples of the hills to the north-west of India; it was the uniform remark that these people were very Jewish-looking. These people were Aryans. It was the same type which prevailed among the Aryan Persians, and again among the Jews, Syrians, and Northern Arabians, commonly called Semites. But the Central and Southern Arabians, in fact the mass of the Arab people, were by no means of this type.
http://aleph0.clarku.edu/huxley/SM3/GeoDis.html

..These differentiations occurred following long-standing claims about the alleged differences between the Nordic and the Mediterranean people. Such debates arose from responses to ancient writers who had commented on differences between northern and southern Europeans. For the Greeks and Romans, Germanic and Celtic peoples were often stereotyped as wild red haired barbarians.Pseudo-Aristotle argued that the Greeks were an ideal race because they possessed a medium skin-tone, in contrast to pale northerners and dark southerners. By the nineteenth century long-standing cultural and religious differences between Protestant northern Europe and the Catholic south were being reinterpreted in racial terms


Our area, from Morocco to Afghanistan, is the homeland and cradle of the Mediterranean race. Mediterraneans are found also in Spain, Portugal, most of Italy, Greece and the Mediterranean islands, and in all these places, as in Southwest Asia, they form the major genetic element in the local populations. In a dark-skinned and finer-boned form they are also found as the major population element in Pakistan and northern India ... The Mediterranean race, then, is indigenous to, and the principal element in, the Southwest Asia, and the greatest concentration of a highly evolved Mediterranean type falls among two of the most ancient Semitic-speaking peoples, notably the Arabs and the Jews (Although it may please neither party, this is the truth.). The Mediterraneans occupy the center of the stage; their areas of greatest concentration are precisely those where civilization is the oldest. This is to be expected, since it was they who produced it and it, in a sense, that produced them.", Carleton Coon, the Story of the Middle East, 1958, pp. 154-157

..

As a rule his skin is some shade of white, from pink or peaches-and-cream to a light brown. Skin color should always be taken on some unexposed part of the body. Among Middle Easterners this is simple, because they cover as much of the body as is consistent with their work. The exposed skin color may be a dark brown, while the skin of the underarm is ten shades lighter. (The sun shines brightly in the Middle East.) While fair-skinned people are to be seen, they live chiefly in shaded bazaars and government offices, whence they rarely emerge into the dazzling light of day.

The Mediterranean’s hair is usually black or dark brown, while his whiskers may reveal a few strands of red or even blond. Blond hair may be seen, but it is the exception. Its presence does not require some invasion of Goths or Scyths or the miscegenation of Crusaders. One of the characteristics of the Mediterranean race is a minority tendency toward blondism. This is seen much more frequently in the eyes, since blond hair, which appears in infants, usually darkens as the hair coarsens with age.
Among Mediterraneans every shade of eye color appears. Coal black is exceptional, a dark or medium brown most common. Nearly a fourth of any sample, however, will have blue, gray or green eyes, usually mixed with brown in the iris pattern. Eyes do not darken with age; hence the greater prevalence of light eyes rather than blond hair among the adult. Like pink skin, blue eyes and blond hair appear most often among people whose work or social status keeps them inoors. Descendants of the Prophet, courtiers, and wealthy merchants are more often blond than farmers or camel drivers. In my opinion this does not mean that blonds are in any way superior to brunets, in the Middle East or elsewhere. It rather indicates that in a hot, brightly illuminated environment blonds are at a disadvantage when out of doors. Those who can manage it gravitate toward work in shaded quarters; furthermore the natural selection that may operate against them in the field and desert would fail to limit their increase in the shade. Middle Eastern urban civilization may thus have produced artificially an environment comparable to the Baltic fog, from which the Nordic emerged.

..The Mediterraneans occupy the center of the stage; their areas of greatest concentration are precisely those where civilization is the oldest. This is to be expected, since it was they who produced it and it, in a sense, that produced them.

http://dienekes.110mb.com/texts/coonmed/

That is a summation from several Professor.

[کیش]

Yes it is Greek the connection goes far back.

Various cities are Greek named Kandahar named after Eskandar or Alexander of Arachosia, Paktia-Paktika.

Afghans-Pashtuns do not see them selves as Oriental or Indian.
German's share linguistics. Following the Kurgan Migration theory Germans may have migrated in the second wave out of central Asia and "not" out of India.

Hence Haplo group R1A in North east Germania and R1B in central and Bavaria.

Kandahar comes from the ancient name of the area, Gandhara. Nice try though.