afghan pashtun dna to be posted soon

[al-arab]

Iraq and Syria are very ancient and interesting countries indeed. The Arabs however are originally from Arabia, not Mesopotamia and Iraqi Arabs are a Arabised, Near Eastern peoples.

In ancient times the Near East played host to many differed peoples and cultures. However the Northern fertile cresent has always differed somewhat ethnically from Southern Mesopotamia and Syria. The same is true of the Levant, which as one might expect has long had Southern Mediterranean influences.

The Assyrians learned to fight mounted from the Indo-Europeans and the spoke-wheeled chariot has Indo-European associations. As horses were first domesticated in the Eurasian Steppes and chariots first emerged in the Urals.

Assyrians and Armenians are closely related to one another and the ancient ancient Urartians (northern province of Assyria) had Anatolian, Western Indo-European associations.

The Hurrians also at some point aquired a Indo-European elite. Hence the Hurrians and Assyrians (Northern Semtic) to some extent where intermediary cultures and the ancient Semtic peoples heartland was further to the south in Southern Mesopotamia.




Assyrian DNA

Assyrian Identity (Part 5): Assyrian DNA - YouTube

I know this Retro although I want to remind you that us Iraqi Arabs are the closests descendants from the worlds oldest civilization, the Sumer and later Mesopotamia, Babylon, Abbasid Caliphate etc. It is true that we have a interesting history with Ancient Iraqi civilazation, early Arabs, Iranian-people, Greeks, Caucasians etc. And of course Assyrians.

Assyrians are way older than Armenians. Before there even was Armenia this was todays Iraqi land (from old civilazations).

Todays Iraqi Arabs are most close to the Levant countries (Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan) and Syria and Egypt. Also the Arabs living in Turkey and Iran and northern Gulf States and Saudi Arabia.

But it is fantastic region you should visit.

[retro]

Assyrians and Armenians are closely related to one another and the ancient ancient Urartians (northern province of Assyria) had Anatolian, Western Indo-European associations.

We are not related at all, nor in language nor in anything, nor was anscient Araratian(urartian) similar to assyrian.
Simply Assyria was near to us and tried always to conquist us.
At leat Hayk Nahapet(Triebsleader Hayk) won them with his people- and from that on we call ourselvs Hay and our country Hayastan to honour him.
And the Navasard(new era) holiday in august is also in memory of how we get free from Asyyrians.
Nor culturaly nor linguisticaly we are not related.

Language and culture does not necessarily always correlated with ethnicity. Assyrians and Armenians are actually fairly closely related and they have similar genetics. Since they have intermarried since antiquity and both peoples adopted, insular oriental Christian practices.

Modern Armenian has a lot of Turkish and Persian borrowing. However linguistically it forms it's own Indo-European branch. At one time the Urartian confederation (ancient Caucasian/Near Eastern peoples) was a province of Assyria and Urartu like Assyria was invaded by Indo-Iranic peoples, such as the Scythians, Cimmerians and Medes. However the Armenian nation was confederated by a Western Indo-European peoples. As the Urartians where in allince with the Armens. Who seemingly had Phrygian/Anatolian associations.

[Tjanaparh]

Dear - these are not facts but theories - and many of them are rejected!
And not all Armenians did adopt Christianism!
Armenians have typically R1b haplogroup - and Assyrians have J1.
About our language You should not study from western sources who tell that our language is full of borowings. It is not true - our language has no borowings from Turkish, and I am telling it not because our conflict with Turks.
The turkish words some people use are not official words, You won't fid them for example in an Armenian dictionary.
What is concerning Persian - there are some borowings , but some are words that are simply similar - only that some Western scientists tell "it is a persian borowing"
For example they say Ashkharh(world) comes from persian Shahr(state, country- i do not know the exact use of the word) related to Avestan Khshaethra.
But it is stupid to say so - with the same luck I can say the English Mother is a borowing of Persian Maadar and the english brother from Persian Baraadar and english daughter from Persian Dukhtar and ...?
They say many things what is useless.
This Phrygian theory however isn't right. Ivanov and Gamkrelidze have a howmuch better analysis on that.
Uratu is also a stupid exmple - it is a wrong read or at least wrong written word - as in Armenian it sounds as Ararat - and has a meaning at least. Ararat is in Armenian a region(not the mountain) and is related to one of our holy beliefs where the name comes from.
The mountain westerners however call Ararat we call Masis ans Sis.
About Scythians and Cimmerians You are right - there are still rests of them - for example the Armenian city Gyumri(before named Kumayri) means Cimmerian mens.
With Medians Armenia had bad relations - that is why Kurush is seen very positive in our history.

[Toramana]

Dear Arevapashth and retro, I really enjoy your discussions and informed exchanges here. Thanks for the nice input.

[Tjanaparh]

What Gomal believes sounds very logical !
That would be a good object of studies - but also a difficult one

[gomal]

What Gomal believes sounds very logical !
That would be a good object of studies - but also a difficult one

Salaam, my Hayastani friend.

It would be quite difficult for such a study to take place, as most tribes have now intermixed with each other.

[Tjanaparh]

Salaam, my Hayastani friend.

It would be quite difficult for such a study to take place, as most tribes have now intermixed with each other.

Voghjuyn(Salaam) dear Waziristani friend.
You are right - it needs also a lot of costs to study it for so many people.
But it won't be impossible as I think people at least partly should know the history os their families - if you will have many people a somehow clear picture tribal genetics could be the result.
Surely it won'T be something 100% , but genetic never is a 100% thing nor is it a clear indication for some things it is missused.

[AFG21]

Gomal believes that DNA among tribes will differ somewhat as many tribes have different origins, in theory.

Gomal thinks that Gomal does that. Why don't you talk like normal person, you can use I, me and my. You sound sometimes like some kind of android.
I am not trieng to be mean or somehing but the way you talk is really strange.

[Daruish]

Thats because you have Central/Western Asian (Indo-European) and Indic admixture and the Arabs like the Indians have mixed with all sorts of people.

Semtic maybe a Afroasiatic language from north or eastern Africa. However West Asians in a strict sence are from the northern fertile cresent.

Interesting, don't you think the connection goes further, as the people of Indus valley civilization and that of Summeria--Iraq. Not that Summeria were Arabs but still they have been arabized. Racially and blood wise most of Syrian, Lebanon, Palastiane, Tunisia and... are not Arab but have been Arabized due to Arab invasion. The Arab tried the same in our region, for over 200 years Arab was forced as court and official language but then our language survived and even dominated the whole region few century later.

[Daruish]

So there is blood diff between Pashtons of south and North. It will be interesting if they did a DNA analyze of Pashtons of Peshawar valley---they look a lot different then rest of Pashtons. No wonder Pashtons are at war with each other…they are different people with different history/interest.

[Daruish]

What is the history of Hg1, Hg2, etc.?

Hg3:

A change(mutation) occured in the Y-Chromosome of a people inhabiting the Euroasian steppes, i.e. the present Ukrine and the areas north to the Black Sea, at the end of late glacial period (some 14000 to 20 years ago). Later, these people multiplied and migrated, spreading the changed Y-Chromosome over a wide area. The people carrying this specific mutation in their chromosome today are said to be in haplogroup 3 (Hg3). Both the Y-Chromosomes of Kashmiris and Pashtuns carry this same mutations and therefore they are in Hg3. This in effect means they originated from the same ancestor.
Hg2:

Another specific change occured, at the end of late glacial period, in the Y-Chromosome of a people that inhabited the Balkans. This mutation was later spread through migrations and increase in population. Today, the people carrying this particular mutation in their chromosomes are said to be in Hg2.

Hg1:

There were some people living in the caves of Iberian Penensula at the end of late glacial period. A particular type of mutation occured in their Y-Chromosomes. Today, the group of human beings carrying this mutation in their chromosome are said to be in haplogroup 1 (Hg1).

Hg28:
central asia and nord indian
source

http://www.ias.ac.in/jgenet/Vol80No3/125.pdf



American Journal of Human Genetics titled "Y-*Chromosomal DNA Variation in Pakistan" in May, 2002 and conducted by (1) Cancer Research Campaign, Chromosome --DNA of Pathan of Pakistan.


Hg = Hg1---Hg2-Hg3-Hg9---Hg21---Hg26-Hg 28---hg36

Pathan- 12--16---45---6-----2-------0---13--------0
Tajiks-10----5---60---10----0--------0---5--------10 ---Tajiks of Tajikistan as no study has been done on Tajik of Afghanistan yet.

[Daruish]

I have got the paper...and other DNA studies done on Pashtuns (3 so far) as well. The DNA studies can resolve the controversy about Pashtun origin once for all and give them a sense of a more consolidated and clear identity. One thing, that this study talks about haplotypes (not haplogroups), so the results should not be interpreted more hastly (although the authors have talked somewhat more conclusively).

I wish more DNA studies are undertaken.

If someone is interested, she/he can get the papers from me.

Can you please post the study or the HG?

[Karachi]

So there is blood diff between Pashtons of south and North. It will be interesting if they did a DNA analyze of Pashtons of Peshawar valley---they look a lot different then rest of Pashtons. No wonder Pashtons are at war with each other…they are different people with different history/interest.

some 20+ samples of Peshawar ones have been tested and they do show more south asian them, however pashtuns overall genetically are not very different, doesn't matter if they are living on the afghan or pakistan side and i dont think genetics is the reason for division

[Rashti]

Dear - these are not facts but theories - and many of them are rejected!
Armenians have typically R1b haplogroup - and Assyrians have J1.

The major Y-DNA haplogroup in both Armenians and Assyrians is R1b.

Family Tree DNA - Assyrian Heritage DNA Project

Family Tree DNA - Armenian DNA Project

From the Armenian DNA Project site:

As per Dr. Roy King: " ... Assyrians and Armenians are practically identical [genetically] except for language which must be reflected in the I2 and perhaps E1b1b1a-V13 frequencies for the Indo-European superstratum. This is interesting in that it suggests that the Indo-European Armenian speakers came from the Balkans rather than via the Caucasus."

[retro]

Whilst Armenians and Assyrians are clearly Near Eastern/Transcaucasian peoples. The Armenians and presumably by extension Assyrians, do seemingly have ancient Anatolian Indo-European affiliations. Semtic peoples are Western Asians and they are very distinctly related to indigenous European peoples. As Haplogroup J and I both have a paternal common ancestor. What is more they have a common, shared, Western Eurasian mtDNA pool.

Haplogroup R1b on the other hand is Eurasiatic and it not only largerly displaced Haplogroup I from Europe. But also seemingly tracked Haplogroup J1 into Eastern Africa via the Levantine corridor during the neolithic. R1b is likely much younger than R1a has limited geographic distribution and far more subclades. However R1b likely originally arose somewhere in Anatolia or the northern fertile cresent. Which is why their are 30-40% R1b pockets amongst Iranian Assyrians and eastern Armenians.