afghan pashtun dna to be posted soon

[Tjanaparh]

I am not a big specialist on the distribution of haplogroups dear friends. But I know here some people who deal with that - they tell that Assyrians are mostly J1 and Armenians R1b.
If you have much knowledge , tell me which is the most distributed haplogrup among Tsahurs and Lezgi, as they are often fenotipically relatively similar to us(and i mean not the colour - but even the faces).

[retro]

I am not a big specialist on the distribution of haplogroups dear friends. But I know here some people who deal with that - they tell that Assyrians are mostly J1 and Armenians R1b.
If you have much knowledge , tell me which is the most distributed haplogrup among Tsahurs and Lezgi, as they are often fenotipically relatively similar to us(and i mean not the colour - but even the faces).

Northeast Caucasian peoples in Dagestan, such as the Tsahurs and Lezghins are mostly J1*. Transcaucasia on the other hand has ancient ties to Anatolia, Northern Mesopotamia and Persia. Which is why Assyrians and Armenians tend to have greater patrilineal diversity and are typically R1b, J2, G.

[Tjanaparh]

May I ask , are You Assyrian dear Retro?
Interestnig about Lezgins - ase many of them at least from Phenotype are same like us(for exampe eorgians, Avars, Chechens look very different, but Lezgic peoples are very similar to us). Do You have this information generaly on north caucasians or specificaly on Lezgic peoples?

[al-arab]

Northeast Caucasian peoples in Dagestan, such as the Tsahurs and Lezghins are mostly J1*. Transcaucasia on the other hand has ancient ties to Anatolia, Northern Mesopotamia and Persia. Which is why Assyrians and Armenians tend to have greater patrilineal diversity and are typically R1b, J2, G.

This is very truth retro. Most Caucasian people have haplogroup J.

From what I can remember Georgians have the highest in Caucasus.

[Tjanaparh]

I do not know - according to this study Lezgins have no J haplogroup - every study I see is different, here Armenians are very different, other studies show s more homogenous.

Thts what is written here:

http://www.eva.mpg.de/genetics/pdf/Caucasus_big_paper.pdf

Figure 1 Map of the Caucasus showing the Y-SNP haplogroup frequencies. AB - Abazinians, Abk –
Abkhazians, Ar – Armenians, Az – Azerbaijanians, Ch – Chechenians, Da – Darginians, Ge – Georgians, In –
Ingushians, K – Georgians from Kazbegi, Ka – Kabardinians, Le Az – Lezginians from Azerbaujan, Le Dag –
Lezginians from Dagestan, Os – South Ossetians, Os A – Ossetians (Ardon), Os D – Ossetians (Digora), Ru –
Rutulians, Sv – Svans, Tur – Turks, Ir I – Iranians (Isfahan), Ir T – Iranians (Tehran). Population names in
boldface are from the present study, in italic from Nasidze et al. (2003), and in underlined italic from Wells et al.
(2001)

[al-arab]

Dear Arevapasht from what I can see from your source (remember there are different genetic studies and not all show the same because they test different people every time, different areas, villages and towns). the Haplogroup J (yellow) is the most spread in Caucasus apart from indigenous haplogroup P.

From your source it looks like Armenian have nearly 25 percent haplogroup J Y-DNA.

I know Ingush and Chechen people are close to us Arabs. (J-DNA) as are many Dagestani people. There are quit a lot of them in Iraq and I think that I even have caucasian ancestry a few generations ago. They are also many of them in Syria.

One of our first prime minister in Iraq (when Iraq still was a kingdom ruled by Hashemite (who are our cousins (al-Hussaini tribe) dynasty, descendents of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.) was Nuri as-Said of North Caucasian descent. Unfortunately he was a traitor and was behind the killing of Ghazi bin Faisal (our second last King)

[Tjanaparh]

Dear Al Arab , do You know the tribe or at least the nation they were from?

[al-arab]

Dear Al Arab , do You know the tribe or at least the nation they were from?

I think my grandmother (from my mothers sides) grandmother was Georgian (half Batragioni and Ossetian (don't know the tribe) and her children (one of them my great-grandmother) father was an ethnic Adyghe from what I know and she converted to Islam when married. But this is so many generations ago that I do not know the precise story and precise tribes or exact ancestry of my great-great-grandfather/mother so it is difficult to be 100 percent sure. Maybe they also had some Armenian ancestry (being an half bagrationi and half Ossetian).?

But this is of course all gueses and generations ago.

What is certain is that we people regardless of race are mixed with others. It is just not all people that know it.

[Tjanaparh]

Bagrationis are quiet Interesting - they came to Georgia as a deviation from armenian Bagratunis(it means translated "Those having a Bagrat (in their ancestry)" - Bagrat + uni(who has)).
Their origins however aren't nor Georgian nor Armenian. Some christian historians who liked to link anything to Jews told they were Jews - but as I know Bagrat is known to come from Iranic tribes. However it is difficult to say what is true

[retro]

This is very truth retro. Most Caucasian people have haplogroup J.

From what I can remember Georgians have the highest in Caucasus.

Caucasians on the whole they tend to be much closer to Western Asians than Europeans and they are 'Near Easterns'. Haplogroup G is usually regarded, as something of a Caucasian marker. However Haplogroup J is a Western Asian marker and it is also very common in Caucasia.

Transcaucasia and Northern Mesopotamia are important regions in terms of the early development of agriculture and Wild Sheep (Moufflon) for example are originally from Transcaucasia.

[retro]

May I ask , are You Assyrian dear Retro?
Interestnig about Lezgins - ase many of them at least from Phenotype are same like us(for exampe eorgians, Avars, Chechens look very different, but Lezgic peoples are very similar to us). Do You have this information generaly on north caucasians or specificaly on Lezgic peoples?

No I am Western European!

Phenotypes do not always correlate well with peoples genotypes.

Eupedia lists the Lezgins.

Lezgins: 43.5% J1, R1b 21.5% and G 17.5%. I assume that these are Azerbaijani Lezgins, rather than Dagestani Lezgins and it's intresting to note that they have very little J2.

European Y-DNA haplogroups frequencies by country - Eupedia

[Tjanaparh]

Thank You dear Retro!
The lik is quiet different fom what I posted , really interesting.
You are right abot the phenotype - but there are general phenotypes that look really common.
Avout Lezgi people - difficult to say even whom they considered Lezgin , only Lezgins ore other Lezgic nations as well?! As there are no data on Tabasarani, Rutul, Tsahur....

[retro]

Thank You dear Retro!
The lik is quiet different fom what I posted , really interesting.
You are right abot the phenotype - but there are general phenotypes that look really common.
Avout Lezgi people - difficult to say even whom they considered Lezgin , only Lezgins ore other Lezgic nations as well?! As there are no data on Tabasarani, Rutul, Tsahur....

The Lezgins are only a small caucasian peoples and their are far more of them in Russia than Azerbaijan (where they seemingly face Turkification). The Armenians likely integrated Caucasian Albanian elements. Since as I'm sure you know Armenia was once a much larger entity.

Originally, the Caucasian Albanians apparently spoke Lezgic languages close to those found in modern Daghestan. After the Caucasian Albanians were Christianized in the 4th century, the western parts of the population were gradually assimilated by the ancestors of modern Armenians, and the eastern parts of Caucasian Albania were Islamized and absorbed by Iranian and subsequently Turkic peoples (modern Azerbaijanis). Small remnants of this group continue to exist independently, and are known as the Udi people.

The pre-Islamic population of Caucasian Albania might have played a role in the ethnogenesis of a number of modern ethnicities, including the Azerbaijanis, the Armenians of the Nagorno-Karabakh, the Georgians of Kakhetia, the Laks, the Lezgins and the Tsakhurs of Daghestan.

Caucasian Albania - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Tjanaparh]

Dear Retro - excuse me - I know a bit more perhaps about Lezgi people.
Lezgic nations are considered:Lezgi, Tabasaran, Tsahur, Rutul.Agul,Kryz, Udi, Archin, Budukh and Khinalug peoples.
For that I said interesting if they considered them as Lezgins or if they considered only strictly Lezgins.
In Azerbaijian there are many Lezgins but they are or turkified or at least their official number is a lie.
In The Karabakh war statistics say that 35% of all death soilders in Azerbaijiani army were Lezgin, but officialy they say that Lezgins are only 2% of the population.
So it is difficult to say.
In ancient time Aghvans and Armenians in some provinces intermarried - we have for example in our stories the hostory of the Aghvan Vajagan and his history of love.
The article is however not right as the Udi are a very small and only chritian goup, but till now Lezgins are a big group of Albanians(Aghvans).
They are not absorbed and have a rich folklore - for example the popular Lezgi dance comes from the Lezgins and almost all caucasians dance it today.

[al-arab]

Bagrationis are quiet Interesting - they came to Georgia as a deviation from armenian Bagratunis(it means translated "Those having a Bagrat (in their ancestry)" - Bagrat + uni(who has)).
Their origins however aren't nor Georgian nor Armenian. Some christian historians who liked to link anything to Jews told they were Jews - but as I know Bagrat is known to come from Iranic tribes. However it is difficult to say what is true

Dear Arevapasht.

I asked my grandmother (my mothers, mother) about her fathers mother (the one that was half Bagrationi and half Ossetian) and she told me that Bagrationi ruled Georgia for centuries and that they were Christians. Also that they believe that come from an ancient Armenian family (don't remember the name) and that the Jewish connection was made up. Much similar to the Ethophian royal family (if you know about their claim of Jewish ancestry). But unfortunately she could not remember the name of the Ossetian tribe.

But I think Ossetians and Armenians are related (both Indo-Europeans) while Georgians were a Caucasian people. But I want to know a bit more of my ancestors ancestry from Caucasus so I think I will try to now more about it.

Could you tell a bit about your ancestry? Armenia is a very old culture so you must have interesting history.