Future Map of Loy Afghanistan(pukhtunistan)

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

modern day state?

So what did my forefathers call themselves? What were they "forced" to call themselves?

500 years ago say?

500 years ago they would have referred to themselves by their ethnicity, the city they come from or the political entity of that time

[Manzareh]

500 years ago your forfathers called themselves khorasani. if they were tajik theyd call themself tajik, if otherwise then whatever ethnicity they were.

[Alchemist]

500 years ago they would have referred to themselves by their ethnicity, the city they come from or the political entity of that time

are you making all this up as you go?

cos it sure sound like that...

basically you are saying, my forefathers only identified themselves by their city because they were not "internationalist"...so they had no concept of country?

[Nick]

Brother educate yourself.

Whether you see Afghan as a political term (citizen of Afghanistan) or an ethnic term (Pashtun), Loy Afghanistan regardless is anti Afghan.

If you support Loy Afghanistan, you support changing the existing border and state at the expense of half your country. This is anti Afghanistan.

If you support Loy Afghanistan from an ethnic perspective, then you are advocating that Lar Pakhtuns pledge allegiance to Kabul

You are dishonest, disingenious and not righteous in your support of Pakhtanuh.

I have never spoken against Pakhtun unity, or the present Afghan state and its various groups.

There are 2 options available to us, and I own both hats and can wear both with equal passion.

1- Afghan nationalism (modern nation state of Afghanistan)
2- Pakhtun nationalism

You cant do both. Thats what Loy Afghanistan is. Its an attempt to have both. You cant.

You cant call an Uzbek from Jawzjan an Afghan and call a Pekhawri the same. You cant say Herat is an Afghan city, and so is Quetta

This is munafiqat in the highest degree

Whether you see Afghan as a political term (citizen of Afghanistan) or an ethnic term (Pashtun), Loy Afghanistan regardless is anti Afghan.

Loy Afghanistan is not anti-Afghan but Anti-Pakistan, Loy Afghan does not unite just 70% of NWFP's Pashtuns, but also Pashia, Ormuris, Baluchis, Parachias, as well as Hazaras, Farsiwans of the Pamirs. The only people who may not feel comfortable are the Sarakis and those anti-Pashtun Hindko panjabans

If you support Loy Afghanistan, you support changing the existing border and state at the expense of half your country. This is anti Afghanistan.

What Afghanistan since Abdur Rahman sold Afghan land there was never peace in Afghanistan. This Afghanistan has become Muilti-Stan with no other sides as majority, Peace will come even if one groups become dominated. Afghanistan is a historical land of local Afghan tribes not the Pashtun or Farsiwans or Uzbeks and other immigrants.

If you support Loy Afghanistan from an ethnic perspective, then you are advocating that Lar Pakhtuns pledge allegiance to Kabul

What makes you say that, even from Ethnic persoective the owners of modern Afghanistan are not known. If I stay by your believe then sure Afghanistan will further lead to division. If Pashtuns join, Afghanistan will be remained as Afghanistan. Our weakness is ourselves, we have no majority. Besides all Afghanistan from Amo to Iranian deserts and up to Indus belongs to Afghans and without demand for Lay Afghanistan, Afghanistan by itself means "Sh#T hole".

You are dishonest, disingenious and not righteous in your support of Pakhtanuh.

I am a non-Pashtun like many non-Pashtuns I support unity because its our weakness and those seeking Unity is seeking peace and that is command of Allah there is not dishonesty in here.

There are 2 options available to us, and I own both hats and can wear both with equal passion.

1- Afghan nationalism (modern nation state of Afghanistan)
2- Pakhtun nationalism

You cant do both. Thats what Loy Afghanistan is. Its an attempt to have both. You cant.

You are lost brother. . I wonder why you said you were not interested in the poilitics of Afghanistan. when I suggested that you should be involved. Remember in our meeting. Well I am sorry to say this you are well educated but lost in the mids of Western Politics.

Afghan nationalism is nothing without Afghan unity, and what's good for Afghanistan is what is Afghan nationalism stands for. Pakhtun Nationalism is new supported by Zahir's cousin Daud and during his time was the hey days of Pakhtun Nationalism. Pakhtun nationalism is a branch of Afghan nationalism. Afghan nationalism goes beyond any boundries of language, its more in who is Afghan and who is Not in terms of Afghan unity and development of Afghanistan nationhood, that we can call home, developed since Mughal and Safivad era Afghans stuck beween two forced by Shias and sometimes played by Powerful Indian mughal rulers, it was modernized in 1900s and thanks to Dr. Tarzai it was complate yet not complate because of missing peice in India as it was those those, so in 1920s that too was created in making sure British busy in WWI Afghans took advantage supported even the Hindu seperatists and housed them in Afghanistan and funded them. You knwo not of history and that's your weakness brother. Where as Pashtun nationalism now a seperate line of party but still denoted as part of afghan nationalism by Daud khan. However there are ISI elements developing since past 40 years specially in 1990s which propagandized the truth of Pashtun nationalism as so to divide Afghanistan into north and south so that Pashtuns can be united which is slap in the face to Afghan nationalists. That's where you may have been confused, my advise stop reading western supported ISI produced BS.

I am proud Afghan nationalist as Afgham Melat party which also has large number of Farsiwans ie you call them Tajiks, well speaking of Political party do you know Hekmatyars majority of supporters in the north are not Pashtuns but us Farsiwans specially in Shamali lol well you know not other you would not say such things.

disagree if you must brother, but it is not incorrect. Im not trying to be discriminatory, I just dont want to mis identify people

Afghanistan is a fraudelent name



Afghan means Pashtun



It would be disrespectful to Tajik Persians, Uzbek Turks etc to call them Afghan. They have their own identity.

Again the question that I asked you. Who gives you the right to say who is Afghan and who is not? A servy recently posted by Admin jan clearly stated that 70% of Afghanistan's population called themselves Afghan first and by far most.



What would be disrespectful for Afghan Tajiks like Farsiwans is calling them non-Afghan. And associating their dress code, Afghan affiliation with non-Afghans. Ok May I ask you a question, Speaking of Uzbek-turks it seems you are fair when it comes to their racial identity, all of Uzbeki speakers as well as some major Turkmanis and Hazaras are not Afghan strictly speaking they are Turkic or Turko-mongol, but about Usbekzai yeah it be funny but have you heard of Uzbekzai? It’s a tribe of some 10,000 people interestingly this tribe associated with 5 other clans the Jehanzai, Badani, Gurgesh, Jamal Dani, and Saruni forming the Raksani tribe, the Badani, Jahanzai in Helmand are Pashtuns and proudly call themselves Pashtun, however the Uzbekzai speaks Uzbeki LOL they are in north Shebergan . Now since Gurgesh and Jamal Dani and Saruni make up majority of some 70,000 they all speak Balochi, The Raksani therefore would go under Balochi tribe despite the Rakhsani are Dualatzai. So I gave you an example of Uzbekzai speaking Uzbeki language because they live in Uzbeki speaking region or may have been mixed.
What does Tajik Persian means to you? In terms of racial identity, and history.

So what should i call my self then?

My forefathers, patrilineal line, have lived in Afghanistan, maidan wardak to be exact, for more than 1000+ years. From my mother's side I have qizilbash, hazara and my paternal grandmother is from pakita. None of my ancestors have lived in Tajikistan or Uzebakistan or Turkmenistan...so what do you propose I call myself?

No, I feel disrepsected by what you have said, not the other way around.

Well of course you belong to the modern day state of Afghanistan, so you are forced in the circumstances to call yourself Afghan.

How is he forced into calling himself Afghan? He asked you a simple question "what do you propose I call myself?" He also said he did not came from Turkmanistan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. Yet even so he is so mixed as native as ever he is Afghan. You have no right to reject anyone's claim of who they are. He knows his roots and I know mine as like many farsiwans.

You better get in line holmes, cuz this is 2011. This is future thinking, I advocate for my Pakhtun people. This is not 1955 anymore. No one believes your Radio Kabul broadcasts.

Afghanistan is a name that showed up in records officially just over a century ago. At best it was an informal description of Pakhtun lands, as was Pakhtunkhwa. Yaghistan and Willayet were other such terms.

Afghan means Pashtun, Afghanistan means Land of Pashtuns. Current modern day Afghanistan is not the Land of Pashtuns. I reject your racism.

Heratis have their own culture. I know, because Im engaged to one. I reject this attempt to give Afghan name to every Tom, **** and Hank.

Its not fair to none of the parties.

Afghanistan is a colonially constructed nation. The only difference between us and Pakistan, is that in Pakistans case, the Angrez occupied the country and directly created it, whereas in our case, they indirectly created it by setting our borders and leaving us alone within those fake borders.

You seem lacking of education, insight and greater perspective. Wake up brother

Afghanistan is a name that showed up in records officially just over a century ago. At best it was an informal description of Pakhtun lands, as was Pakhtunkhwa. Yaghistan and Willayet were other such terms.

There is no such thing as officially when we are speaking history, read Fresta's source you will find Afghanistan many times.

Afghan means Pashtun, Afghanistan means Land of Pashtuns. Current modern day Afghanistan is not the Land of Pashtuns. I reject your racism.

Heratis have their own culture.

First of all Heratis don't have anything from us Farsiwans, everything was same to my eyes, dress, food and treditional Mehmanawazi. I reject your claim and I am not sure what kind of culture you are stating maybe you found it differ from your own family pashtun prospective.

Afghan means Pashtun, Afghanistan means Land of Pashtuns. Current modern day Afghanistan is not the Land of Pashtuns. I reject your racism.

correction two words indo-european and indo-Aryan/Awestic racial term mixed as to become Afghan +Stan means land. For majority of us Afghanistan means Land of Afghans, and if that Afghan means Pashtun to you then good for you because many of us are not Pashtun.

[Nick]

500 years ago your forfathers called themselves khorasani. if they were tajik theyd call themself tajik, if otherwise then whatever ethnicity they were.

sorry dear but So rubish, Khorasani only when in reference to Arabs. Natively always went by the city. Kandahari, Kabuli, Sistani, Balkhi. There was no Ethnic BS. The word Tajik did not even existed it was after 1500 during Uzbek rulers of Turkistan that labelled the Persian speakers as Tajik. Some connect the Tajiks with Taj-e-han which simply means rulers but that's not clear it was never an ethnic group not documented until Russian era of 1800s. Don't look at anciant time with modern View. This whole Ethnic BS is created by British and westerners. There are thosends of tribes of Tajiks that have same last names and tribal affaliation as Pashtu speakers. Speaking of Ethnicity look at PAshtun how many tribes there are? do you want me to go on about their backround, both mythical and historical reference of their original homeland that pin points far from PAshtunistan or Afghanistan. 100s of tribes combined simply over a common language. Do you know what Pashtun means, do you know what Tajik means? no you only know based on what you read in wikipedia or BS iranica. I am a tajik and years based i wanted to be able to defend the word Tajik and I have looked everywhere and every anciant source to define this word. But non has been found. So help us and delight us with knowledge as I always asked the anti-Afghans. If not keep the knowledge to yourself, we know who we are.

[khyaal]

Nick! Don't waste your time with Ghaznavi, there seems to be some ulterior motives here. It is the typical BS propagated by Pakis and their affiliates. You will see many who claim to be afghans but in reality the work for anti afghan agenda.

[khyaal]

He claims to be from Ghazni but at the same time he says he is Qabail. Now this seems intriguing.

[ScimitarXEdge]

sorry dear but So rubish, Khorasani only when in reference to Arabs. Natively always went by the city. Kandahari, Kabuli, Sistani, Balkhi. There was no Ethnic BS. The word Tajik did not even existed it was after 1500 during Uzbek rulers of Turkistan that labelled the Persian speakers as Tajik. Some connect the Tajiks with Taj-e-han which simply means rulers but that's not clear it was never an ethnic group not documented until Russian era of 1800s. Don't look at anciant time with modern View. This whole Ethnic BS is created by British and westerners. There are thosends of tribes of Tajiks that have same last names and tribal affaliation as Pashtu speakers. Speaking of Ethnicity look at PAshtun how many tribes there are? do you want me to go on about their backround, both mythical and historical reference of their original homeland that pin points far from PAshtunistan or Afghanistan. 100s of tribes combined simply over a common language. Do you know what Pashtun means, do you know what Tajik means? no you only know based on what you read in wikipedia or BS iranica. I am a tajik and years based i wanted to be able to defend the word Tajik and I have looked everywhere and every anciant source to define this word. But non has been found. So help us and delight us with knowledge as I always asked the anti-Afghans. If not keep the knowledge to yourself, we know who we are.

Khorasani isn't even an Arabic word, nevermind reference though. It was "adopted" by Arabs sure. But even they never referred to it as a National identity, it was adopted as a National identity much later on, and yes Abdali adopted it as a National Identity.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

He claims to be from Ghazni but at the same time he says he is Qabail. Now this seems intriguing.

I claim Qibail cuz Im a rural tribal Pakhtun thats why.

Im from Waghaz and Andar districts of Ghazni province. Kakar by qawm.

I have spent 2 weeks of my 27 yrs on Earth in Pakistan.

[khyaal]

I claim Qibail cuz Im a rural tribal Pakhtun thats why.

Im from Waghaz and Andar districts of Ghazni province. Kakar by qawm.

I have spent 2 weeks of my 27 yrs on Earth in Pakistan.

But Ghaznavi wrora! I still could not understand the so strong impulse behind your deep conviction on ethnocentric definition of the word Afghan and the sense of disliking for non-pashto speaking afghans who have been there on that land for centuries.

We have alongside us many hindkowan, gujar, kohistanyan, chitralyan but I've never felt this same thing which you say about other Afghans. Some of the hindkowan from Hazara though are very explicitly anti-Pashtun.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

But Ghaznavi wrora! I still could not understand the so strong impulse behind your deep conviction on ethnocentric definition of the word Afghan and the sense of disliking for non-pashto speaking afghans who have been there on that land for centuries.

We have alongside us many hindkowan, gujar, kohistanyan, chitralyan but I've never felt this same thing which you say about other Afghans. Some of the hindkowan from Hazara though are very explicitly anti-Pashtun.

wrora i dont have no hatred for any one. my fiance is herati farsiban. that means my kids will have non pashtun blood, so there is no hatred

just a recognition that afghan means pashtun. simple. labelling all of modern day Afghanistan by that name was not righteous or correct, because not everyone in that land is Afghan.

I would much rather prefer Khorasan or Ariana instead. That way the Afghan name is restored to its rightful owner.

Afghanistan today is a colonially constructed buffer state of many ethnicities that have brothers across borders.

A Herati and Mashadi have few differences, same with Uzbeks and Tajiks etc. Pakhtuns are more close to each other obviously.

So Afghanistan is an independent state of multiple ethnicities whose co-ethnics were subjagated.

[khyaal]

wrora i dont have no hatred for any one. my fiance is herati farsiban. that means my kids will have non pashtun blood, so there is no hatred

just a recognition that afghan means pashtun. simple. labelling all of modern day Afghanistan by that name was not righteous or correct, because not everyone in that land is Afghan.

I would much rather prefer Khorasan or Ariana instead. That way the Afghan name is restored to its rightful owner.

Afghanistan today is a colonially constructed buffer state of many ethnicities that have brothers across borders.

A Herati and Mashadi have few differences, same with Uzbeks and Tajiks etc. Pakhtuns are more close to each other obviously.

So Afghanistan is an independent state of multiple ethnicities whose co-ethnics were subjagated.

I still couldn't understand it. I think you are very much stuck in the academic veracity of the word Afghan ignoring its political and pragmatic value. What you are doing now is spreading plain hatred against non-Pashto speaking afghans. I don't know why. We (our party PMAP) would feel it pleasant if other ethnic groups of Pakhtunykhwa insisted that they be identified as Pashtuns. I don't know what is the issue with that.

[ScimitarXEdge]

I don't necessarily "agree" that the term afghan being used in 2011 has purely ethnic connotations; But I definitely agree whatever we know of as "Afghanistan" is not a creation of the people, citizens but carved out by the Great Game.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Khyaal you are pulling a straw man, his not wanting to identity Non-Pashtuns as Afghan on account of it's ethnic connotations is not equal to rejecting them as apart of the same nation he's from. It has to do with other historical and technical variables which the term 'Afghanistan" ratifies. You're completely representing his statement in divergent context.

[khyaal]

I don't necessarily "agree" that the term afghan being used in 2011 has purely ethnic connotations; But I definitely agree whatever we know of as "Afghanistan" is not a creation of the people, citizens but carved out by the Great Game.

The great game only cuased to shrink the boundries of Afghanistan, the state itself is not its creation.