Mirwais neeka victorious against safavid shias.

[graveyardofempires]

>>>

[graveyardofempires]

this is a short version
YouTube - Afghans In History Episode Three - Mirwais Khan Hotaki

[Catya Sher]

This thread looks really interesting.
I am earmarking it to come back to when I get my Adobe Flash Player to work
[I have downloaded 16 times or so but it won't take.]

About the Gurgin Khan being a crypto-Christian, though, that is exactly the same picture as
Paul Refsdal converting to Islam, temporarily, while a captive of some Taliban derivative group.
P.R. did that only under pressure thinking of ... well, the PR value with his captors!
As it turned out they didn't let him go anyway.

So the same thing with George of Georgia...
if a cross was even rumored to be found on his body, I believe that was a true story.

[Ulfserker]

Salam alaykum people.

I found my writing and will translate them for you.

Gurgin was son of King of Georgia Vakhtang V (Crowned as muslim under name of Shahnavaz), He was heir to throne and ascended it, reigned years 10.

For this 10 years he several times rebelled against Iran, so Shah deposed him and made Nazar Ali Khan (Georgian name Erekle I, K is somewhat tougher than ك, he was heir to throne of Kakheti. not to confuse with Erekle II) as king of Kartli.

Nazar Ali first also denied to accept Islam, but later he eventually accepted. So, after ascending to throne, Nazar Ali rejected Islam, claimed himself as independent from Iran and invited Russians to help him. Shah of Iran called again Gurgin, reconciled with him and gave him command of some miliraty forces, so Gurgin deal with Nazar Ali and once again ascended to throne of Kartli. (it was in 1102 After Hijrah, or 1691 by christian calendar)

As soon as Gurgin ascended to throne, he was also appointed by Shah as a commander of his personal Ghulam forces, which was elite amongst Iranian troops and consisted by ethnic minorities, who converted to Islam.

At this time afghanistan rebelled, and Shah decided to kill two birds with one shot - So he sent Gurgin in afghanistan. If Gurgin will quell afghan rebels, than shah will appoint him as a Afghan wali, and thus shah will dealt with two dangers - rebellions in Afghanistan and Georgia. It was in 1107 AH (1696 AD)

Gurgin and his brother, Levan, managed to quell rebellion in afghanistan. and so hey returned to Shah. it was in 1114 AH (1703 AD). Shah was happy, and in gesture of good will, appointed Levan's Son, Kay Khusraw (Kaikhosro) as a governor of Ispahan province and, forget Gurgin's previous rebellions, allowed Gurgin to return in Kartli. After Gurgin's leave, Mir Wais called Jirga, on which he tried to unify all Pashto tribes (There are named as Gilzais, Alkozis, Nurzais, Kakars, Tahinis, Baburs, Nasors) and also Baloch chieftains were present at this Jerga.

After this Jerga, Afghanistan rebelled again. So Shah again sent Gurgin in afghanistan. Armenian catholic, Yussuf Abisalamyan, secretary of french embassy in Iran, was eyewitness of this and wrote it down.

Abisalamyan wrotes, that Gurgin approached Kandahar and took it. At this time he captured all rebel leaders, and Mir Wais among them. To frighten the people, all leaders were executed, and also population of Kandahar punished by cruel means. Mir Wais was chained and sent to Isfahan. Mir Wais possibly knew about Gurgin's crypto-christianity, so he sent letter to Khalifa of baghdad, that Shi`ahs are dealing with us, using power of non-believer. So Khalifa interfered in cause of Mir Wais, forced reconciliation between Shah and Mir Wais. Mir Wais was allowed to perform Hajj in holy city Makkah. From Makkah he returned to afghanistan, where he killed Gurgin and declared himself as ruler of Afghanistan.

Shah now sent Kay Khusraw, who laid siege of Kandahar, was defeated by Mir Wais, his army crushed and fled. Only Georgians remained there to stand till death and they were all killed. This happened 14 Sha`ban 1123 AH (27 september 1711, but date is disputed)





Image used in Video, as depiction of Gurgin, in fact is Vakhtang VI, Son of Levan, Brother of Kay Khusraw, and Gurgin's successor as a King of Kartli.

[graveyardofempires]

Salam alaykum people.

I found my writing and will translate them for you.

Gurgin was son of King of Georgia Vakhtang V (Crowned as muslim under name of Shahnavaz), He was heir to throne and ascended it, reigned years 10.

For this 10 years he several times rebelled against Iran, so Shah deposed him and made Nazar Ali Khan (Georgian name Erekle I, K is somewhat tougher than ك, he was heir to throne of Kakheti. not to confuse with Erekle II) as king of Kartli.

Nazar Ali first also denied to accept Islam, but later he eventually accepted. So, after ascending to throne, Nazar Ali rejected Islam, claimed himself as independent from Iran and invited Russians to help him. Shah of Iran called again Gurgin, reconciled with him and gave him command of some miliraty forces, so Gurgin deal with Nazar Ali and once again ascended to throne of Kartli. (it was in 1102 After Hijrah, or 1691 by christian calendar)

As soon as Gurgin ascended to throne, he was also appointed by Shah as a commander of his personal Ghulam forces, which was elite amongst Iranian troops and consisted by ethnic minorities, who converted to Islam.

At this time afghanistan rebelled, and Shah decided to kill two birds with one shot - So he sent Gurgin in afghanistan. If Gurgin will quell afghan rebels, than shah will appoint him as a Afghan wali, and thus shah will dealt with two dangers - rebellions in Afghanistan and Georgia. It was in 1107 AH (1696 AD)

Gurgin and his brother, Levan, managed to quell rebellion in afghanistan. and so hey returned to Shah. it was in 1114 AH (1703 AD). Shah was happy, and in gesture of good will, appointed Levan's Son, Kay Khusraw (Kaikhosro) as a governor of Ispahan province and, forget Gurgin's previous rebellions, allowed Gurgin to return in Kartli. After Gurgin's leave, Mir Wais called Jirga, on which he tried to unify all Pashto tribes (There are named as Gilzais, Alkozis, Nurzais, Kakars, Tahinis, Baburs, Nasors) and also Baloch chieftains were present at this Jerga.

After this Jerga, Afghanistan rebelled again. So Shah again sent Gurgin in afghanistan. Armenian catholic, Yussuf Abisalamyan, secretary of french embassy in Iran, was eyewitness of this and wrote it down.

Abisalamyan wrotes, that Gurgin approached Kandahar and took it. At this time he captured all rebel leaders, and Mir Wais among them. To frighten the people, all leaders were executed, and also population of Kandahar punished by cruel means. Mir Wais was chained and sent to Isfahan. Mir Wais possibly knew about Gurgin's crypto-christianity, so he sent letter to Khalifa of baghdad, that Shi`ahs are dealing with us, using power of non-believer. So Khalifa interfered in cause of Mir Wais, forced reconciliation between Shah and Mir Wais. Mir Wais was allowed to perform Hajj in holy city Makkah. From Makkah he returned to afghanistan, where he killed Gurgin and declared himself as ruler of Afghanistan.

Shah now sent Kay Khusraw, who laid siege of Kandahar, was defeated by Mir Wais, his army crushed and fled. Only Georgians remained there to stand till death and they were all killed. This happened 14 Sha`ban 1123 AH (27 september 1711, but date is disputed)





Image used in Video, as depiction of Gurgin, in fact is Vakhtang VI, Son of Levan, Brother of Kay Khusraw, and Gurgin's successor as a King of Kartli.

where can we find a picture of gurgin?

i dont think mirwais neeka was dragged in chains to persia but he was sent out of the country but came back stronger and more confident.
went to hajj and got a fatwa to rise against the shiat safavid.

to Afghan sunnis shiats were not proper muslims so i dont really think pashtuns would want to win iranian trust.

he got free and came back because safavid king wanted to win his trust.


btw good post,if you have more please do post

[Ulfserker]

where can we find a picture of gurgin?

i dont think mirwais neeka was dragged in chains to persia but he was sent out of the country but came back stronger and more confident.
went to hajj and got a fatwa to rise against the shiat safavid.

to Afghan sunnis shiats were not proper muslims so i dont really think pashtuns would want to win iranian trust.

he got free and came back because safavid king wanted to win his trust.


btw good post,if you have more please do post

Tribes named there, as a members present to Jerga, are real and can be traced to that time? (There are named tribes Gilzais, Alkozis, Nurzais, Kakars, Tahinis, Baburs, Nasors, transcription can be improper. jerga was called about 1119-1120 AH, 1707-1709 AD)

But how is it possible for Mir Wais to obtain fatwa against Safavid Shi`as from Makkan `Ulama, on the grounds that Shi`as were not muslims?

Where in particular period of history Shi`as (Ithna ashari and zaidi) were declared as Kuffar and thus prevented from hajj? Such never happened to the best of my knowledge.

I heard in Georgia such things - Near Kandahar are two villages, called Gurjizai, or Gurjizoi, and also one such named village in Zabul province. Settled by clans Karzi, Karzini, Khalidai, Achekzai. What do you or anyone knows about that?


Image used in video is assuredly Vakhtang. Also there is another images of him, and it is known.

About image of Gurgin - assured image of Gurgin is not existent. I think that it is possible, that this image represents him.

[graveyardofempires]

Tribes named there, as a members present to Jerga, are real and can be traced to that time? (There are named tribes Gilzais, Alkozis, Nurzais, Kakars, Tahinis, Baburs, Nasors, transcription can be improper. jerga was called about 1119-1120 AH, 1707-1709 AD)

But how is it possible for Mir Wais to obtain fatwa against Safavid Shi`as from Makkan `Ulama, on the grounds that Shi`as were not muslims?

Where in particular period of history Shi`as (Ithna ashari and zaidi) were declared as Kuffar and thus prevented from hajj? Such never happened to the best of my knowledge.

I heard in Georgia such things - Near Kandahar are two villages, called Gurjizai, or Gurjizoi, and also one such named village in Zabul province. Settled by clans Karzi, Karzini, Khalidai, Achekzai. What do you or anyone knows about that?


Image used in video is assuredly Vakhtang. Also there is another images of him, and it is known.

About image of Gurgin - assured image of Gurgin is not existent. I think that it is possible, that this image represents him.

the fatwa was given because the safavid wanted to convert pashtun sunnis to shia,normally we have no problem with what shias believe but if they try to convert sunnis than a fatwa is given to fight against them.
but again pashtuns are very strict and conservative sunnis.
shias wrere not declared kafir but to pashtuns someone trying to convert their people to shia was reeason enough to resist because we dont believe in many shia things.
most tribes you named are correct

[Ulfserker]

shias wrere not declared kafir but to pashtuns someone trying to convert their people to shia was reeason enough to resist because we dont believe in many shia things.
most tribes you named are correct

Yes I know about difference between shi`a and sunni beliefs.

So, you say that villages named Gurjizoi exists?

Gurji (گورجى or گرجى) means Georgian in farsi. It is possible some remnant of the Georgians settled there and than assimilated with afghans? Or Gurji has pashtun etymology? Zoi or Zai, as far as I know, means descent.

[graveyardofempires]

Yes I know about difference between shi`a and sunni beliefs.

So, you say that villages named Gurjizoi exists?

Gurji (گورجى or گرجى) means Georgian in farsi. It is possible some remnant of the Georgians settled there and than assimilated with afghans? Or Gurji has pashtun etymology? Zoi or Zai, as far as I know, means descent.

have never heard of gurjizoi but i was talking about some of the tribes names you mentioned but i,ll try to find out if there si a village named gurjizoi or a tribe by that name.

[Ulfserker]

have never heard of gurjizoi but i was talking about some of the tribes names you mentioned but i,ll try to find out if there si a village named gurjizoi or a tribe by that name.

Well, thanks again.

Now on the legend-story I heard about capture of Ispahan by Mir Wais. When Afghans captured Ispahan (1134 AH) and Mir Wais entered a city, one woman came straight to Mir Wais, drew dagger and wanted to kill Mir Wais, but guards of Mir Wais reacted smartly and captured her before she can harm Mir Wais. It happened that this woman was Georgian, widow of some georgian soldier, who died in fighting with Kay Khusraw and this woman wished to avenge his father, but eventually failed. Mir Wais ordered not to execute this woman and released her. This story is also widely spread in Georgia.

[graveyardofempires]

Well, thanks again.

Now on the legend-story I heard about capture of Ispahan by Mir Wais. When Afghans captured Ispahan (1134 AH) and Mir Wais entered a city, one woman came straight to Mir Wais, drew dagger and wanted to kill Mir Wais, but guards of Mir Wais reacted smartly and captured her before she can harm Mir Wais. It happened that this woman was Georgian, widow of some georgian soldier, who died in fighting with Kay Khusraw and this woman wished to avenge his father, but eventually failed. Mir Wais ordered not to execute this woman and released her. This story is also widely spread in Georgia.

its not true
Mirwais Hotak didnt invade Persia but his son did
maybe the legend goes about his son

Shah Mahmud Hotaki captured Isfahan and became Shah of Persia

Mahmud Hotaki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[graveyardofempires]

Would you like me to ask the older people here brother?

yes please do

[ScimitarXEdge]

Yes I know about difference between shi`a and sunni beliefs.

So, you say that villages named Gurjizoi exists?

Gurji (گورجى or گرجى) means Georgian in farsi. It is possible some remnant of the Georgians settled there and than assimilated with afghans? Or Gurji has pashtun etymology? Zoi or Zai, as far as I know, means descent.

I think some people misunderstand Ghurzai which has to do either do with Ghorids and/or pre-Medeval name of the Ghilzai clans.

[Alchemist]

And then came Nadir Shah and put away with both Saffavid and Hotaki dynasties.

If anything Nadir Shah tried to unite the Muslims and even put in efforts with the Ottomon empire to have Jaffari Fiqh being considered as another school of fiqh along the other traditional lines of Abu Hanifa, Maliki, Shafai and Hanbali. Although this is more of a political problem than a fiqhi one since from a theological perspective there is no such thing as 'hanafi' or 'jaffari' fiqh since neither of them write any such theological threaties with their own hands.

[Ulfserker]

I think some people misunderstand Ghurzai which has to do either do with Ghorids and/or pre-Medeval name of the Ghilzai clans.

Quite possible, because in article, where I read this, is exaggerations, but I considered some parts of it, about afghanized remnants of Georgians forces, to be more trustful, because such precedents exist - For example Shams al-`Ulama Mirza Kalich was descent of Georgian soldier who settled in Sindh and was assimilated.