Mirwais neeka victorious against safavid shias.

[graveyardofempires]

pointless talking 2 him abt shias... he is just a bigot who can only hate... he doesnt knw shia faith or the various sects which claim 2 be shia 2 him they are all shia... when his sunni scholars can teach him how to pray correctly then ill listen 2 him... sunnis cant even agree abt that how can u expect them 2 knw differences in shia

i dont need to know about shias and our stance is reflected through our history.

this thread is about Afghan history and great historical figures such as Mirwasi Neeka not some khomeini.

i dont know what your problem is but all you do is shooting yourself in the foot.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Dreamer

personally, I think we need to stop disparaging other on what sect we belong to; I think they're all man made and shouldn't weigh into anything.

[Admin Khan]

GOE has the fundamental concept right, which was that the Persians attempted to convert Kandaharis into the Shia sect of Islam, however, their plan backfired and it resulted in the people of Kandahar calling the shots instead. I'm sure we all know what happened.


I am with ScimitarXEdge on this one, we are Muslim, lets leave it at that.

[Dreamer]

i dont need to know about shias and our stance is reflected through our history.

this thread is about Afghan history and great historical figures such as Mirwasi Neeka not some khomeini.

i dont know what your problem is but all you do is shooting yourself in the foot.

debate properly then or are u incapable? remember lolling is not an argument... use ur brain thats if u have 1 my problem is bigots like u who go around talking crap without knowing exactly what they are saying.... if u want a shia sunni debate which ur gagging for yet when u do get one strangely enough u cant reply 2 any of the points raised other than lolling ur way out of it... please go 2 an imambagha where some1 can address ur concerns

[graveyardofempires]

debate properly then or are u incapable? remember lolling is not an argument... use ur brain thats if u have 1 my problem is bigots like u who go around talking crap without knowing exactly what they are saying.... if u want a shia sunni debate which ur gagging for yet when u do get one strangely enough u cant reply 2 any of the points raised other than lolling ur way out of it... please go 2 an imambagha where some1 can address ur concerns

i ddidnt post this video to have a shia sunni debate as you call it.
you are just looking for attention,and not going to get it from me.

im not some full time debater to satisfy every person.

[Dreamer]

No... in ll ur posts its shia this and shia that... get a grip on reality dude.. me thinks u have beem spending 2 much time with the mullahs... u knw the ones that f**ked up pashtun lands

[MazloomYarMasud]

Welcome to the history of Religion.

Two schools of thought have divided over 40 million Pashtuns.

and yet people do not even realise this which makes it even more laughable.

[Ulfserker]

Salam people.

What is known in afghanistan about Gurgin Khan? I am interested to heard Pashtun opinion about him, because third parties somewhat exaggerate.

It is true that Mir Wais sent cross to shah of Iran, which he found on the body of Gurgin, thus proved to Shah that Gurgin was not loyal to Iran and was crypto-christian (Gurgin was former christian)?

Also I heard about his companion georgians. It is true that some of them survived and settled in Afghanistan? (I heard something like this in Georgia)

[graveyardofempires]

Salam people.

What is known in afghanistan about Gurgin Khan? I am interested to heard Pashtun opinion about him, because third parties somewhat exaggerate.

It is true that Mir Wais sent cross to shah of Iran, which he found on the body of Gurgin, thus proved to Shah that Gurgin was not loyal to Iran and was crypto-christian (Gurgin was former christian)?

Also I heard about his companion georgians. It is true that some of them survived and settled in Afghanistan? (I heard something like this in Georgia)

Gurgin was there working for iranian shah
i have never heard of his companions staying in Afghanistan.

what did you exactly hear in Georgia?it seems interesting.
and about the cross i dont think ive heard anything but it could be true and gurgin was not muslim so he probably was christian.

[Manzareh]

The Safavids were brutal to the sunnis, they tried to convert the sunnis into shias by force which backfired and was devestating to there empire.

[graveyardofempires]

The Safavids were brutal to the sunnis, they tried to convert the sunnis into shias by force which backfired and was devestating to there empire.

they actually succeded in converting many iranians to shia ,before them iran was a sunni country.btw they are still doing the same to iranian sunnis.

[Ulfserker]

Gurgin was there working for iranian shah
i have never heard of his companions staying in Afghanistan.

what did you exactly hear in Georgia?it seems interesting.
and about the cross i dont think ive heard anything but it could be true and gurgin was not muslim so he probably was christian.

I heard many legends. Let us begin with facts - Gurgin (Georgian name Giorgi, both G pronounced as ګ) was a heir to throne of one of georgian kingdoms - kartli, located in middle of georgia. For that time, both kartli and also kakheti were subjugated by Iran and Shah gaved permission to new kings to ascend on throne, only if they converted to Islam.

Most georgians are eastern orthodox christians, and there were no neighbor in caucasus with same religion (Armenians are different), so religion was incorporated in national selfidentity and if georgian changed religion, it was considered as change of nationality. So secretly most of kings kept as crypto-christians. Gurgin finally converted and received throne of kartli, but Shah also appointed him as wali of Kandahar and ordered him to subjugate afghanistan.

Than he came to afghanistan and took Kandahar. There is reports of very cruel actions and atrocities committed to frighten people of kandahar. Gurgin stayed there for some time and even captured Mir Wais himself. but Mir Wais managed to return in afghanistan, killed Gurgin.

Those above are assured facts, now the doubtful facts and legends.

first is about stand of 1500 georgians, who stood up against many afghans till all they died and killed dozen thousands. This version also mentioned to some historians in georgia but I doubt it's authentication.

Second - Cross story. Mir Wais found cross, and sent it to Shah, as a proof that Gurgin was christian and unloyal to Shah.

Third - There are reports about Mir Wais offered Gurgin a alliance against shah and his daughter as wife. result of negotiations unclear, so I also doubt this. Why should Gurgin reject alliance against Shah?

Fourth - Mir Wais invited Gurgin to gathering, where his servants suddenly got knives and slaughtered Gurgin and his companions. according one account of events, Gurgin slaughtered more than 20 or 40 afghans in battle and than was killed. According second account, Gurgin was captured alive and sacrificed in ritual manner by some Murad Khan.

Fifth - I also heard, that grave of Gurgin, despite Islamic traditions to forget the grave of deceased, grave of Gurgin is kept and respected by afghans for his bravery and military valor.

Is something of those stories familiar to you?

I also have other accounts written down, I will find and present them here.

Do not mind me asking - are you living in afghanistan? or among diaspora? if possible, ask elder people also if possible.

[graveyardofempires]

I heard many legends. Let us begin with facts - Gurgin (Georgian name Giorgi, both G pronounced as ګ) was a heir to throne of one of georgian kingdoms - kartli, located in middle of georgia. For that time, both kartli and also kakheti were subjugated by Iran and Shah gaved permission to new kings to ascend on throne, only if they converted to Islam.

Most georgians are eastern orthodox christians, and there were no neighbor in caucasus with same religion (Armenians are different), so religion was incorporated in national selfidentity and if georgian changed religion, it was considered as change of nationality. So secretly most of kings kept as crypto-christians. Gurgin finally converted and received throne of kartli, but Shah also appointed him as wali of Kandahar and ordered him to subjugate afghanistan.

Than he came to afghanistan and took Kandahar. There is reports of very cruel actions and atrocities committed to frighten people of kandahar. Gurgin stayed there for some time and even captured Mir Wais himself. but Mir Wais managed to return in afghanistan, killed Gurgin.

Those above are assured facts, now the doubtful facts and legends.

first is about stand of 1500 georgians, who stood up against many afghans till all they died and killed dozen thousands. This version also mentioned to some historians in georgia but I doubt it's authentication.

Second - Cross story. Mir Wais found cross, and sent it to Shah, as a proof that Gurgin was christian and unloyal to Shah.

Third - There are reports about Mir Wais offered Gurgin a alliance against shah and his daughter as wife. result of negotiations unclear, so I also doubt this. Why should Gurgin reject alliance against Shah?

Fourth - Mir Wais invited Gurgin to gathering, where his servants suddenly got knives and slaughtered Gurgin and his companions. according one account of events, Gurgin slaughtered more than 20 or 40 afghans in battle and than was killed. According second account, Gurgin was captured alive and sacrificed in ritual manner by some Murad Khan.

Fifth - I also heard, that grave of Gurgin, despite Islamic traditions to forget the grave of deceased, grave of Gurgin is kept and respected by afghans for his bravery and military valor.

Is something of those stories familiar to you?

I also have other accounts written down, I will find and present them here.

Do not mind me asking - are you living in afghanistan? or among diaspora? if possible, ask elder people also if possible.

first of all thank you for this post


Gurgin didnt catch Mirwais Khan and Mirwais Khan was cooperating for the security of his people,Gurgin is not know to be a good fighter but more as a drunk and a corrupt figure.

""first is about stand of 1500 georgians, who stood up against many afghans till all they died and killed dozen thousands. This version also mentioned to some historians in georgia but I doubt it's authentication.""
never happend

"cross story" wasnt even important since after the defeat of Gurgin Shah sent another army to retake Kandahar but they were defeated but Afghans.
so there was no need for Mirwais to prove to Shah or win his support.

there was actually some persians who helped Mirwas Khan against Gurgin.

""Third - There are reports about Mir Wais offered Gurgin a alliance against shah and his daughter as wife. result of negotiations unclear, so I also doubt this. Why should Gurgin reject alliance against Shah?""
totally untrue Afghans never offer their daughters and Mirwais Khan never offered Gurgin any alliance against shah since to Mirwais Khan they were both enemies.

Fourth - Mir Wais invited Gurgin to gathering, where his servants suddenly got knives and slaughtered Gurgin and his companions. according one account of events, Gurgin slaughtered more than 20 or 40 afghans in battle and than was killed. According second account, Gurgin was captured alive and sacrificed in ritual manner by some Murad Khan.

Mir Wais Khan didnt have servants as we Afghans dont keep servants,and he wasnt killed that way.Gurgin was collecting tax from Afghans and one family couldnt pay so his soldiers took their daughter with them to their castle or whatever.there before being touched she jumped of the window commitng suicide which was the trigger to rebelion,and other factor was that the shias were trying to convert the sunnis to shiasm.
Mir Wais Khan ploted together with a persian who worked closely with Gurgin,Mir wais Khan offered some of his finest young tirbesmen to gurad the palace of Gurgin,but when time was right these around a hundred men slaughtered all the soldiers and took over the place.Mir wais khan came in with his persian friend and announced de defeat of Gurgin in his face.

later Shah from persia sent a large army to take back kandahar and subdue the people but that army was defeated by Afghans who were much smaller in number.

""gurgin was sacrificed in a ritual manner""
there si no such thing as sacrificing someone in a ritual manner,this must be the most stupid thing ive ever heard.

""Fifth - I also heard, that grave of Gurgin, despite Islamic traditions to forget the grave of deceased, grave of Gurgin is kept and respected by afghans for his bravery and military valor.""

Gurgin is one of the most unliked person in Afghan history and there is no such thing as his grave let alone people going there and show respect for his bravery.
and he is not known for any bravery but someone who didnt belong there and the shah had brought him there to subdue the people.

btw he was always known to eb christian.
i dont live in afghanistan currently and i,ll ask for you
my family has also made a movie about this event

[Ulfserker]

Shah sent another army to retake Kandahar but they were defeated but Afghans.
so there was no need for Mirwais to prove to Shah or win his support.

This is army I am talking about - Shah sent army to avenge death of Gurgin by the hands of the son of gurgin's brother - Kay Khusraw (Kaikhosro in georgian), They numbered about 30 000 Persians and 1500 georgians. Kay Khusraw approached Kandahar and laid siege. But Kandahar fortress stood up some time, so in that time Mir Wais gathered big army, while most of Kay Khusraws army deserted. Then he was defeated by afghans and remnant of his army fled except Georgians. They stood till all died - this is what I heard.

there si no such thing as sacrificing someone in a ritual manner,this must be the most stupid thing ive ever heard.

Same account says about loya jerga who gathered to unify afghans against Gurgin. Jerga was called by Ahmad Shah Abdali (late to became Ahmad Shah Durrani). Did you heard something like this?

Gurgin was collecting tax from Afghans and one family couldnt pay so his soldiers took their daughter with them to their castle or whatever.

I do not heard this version.

btw he was always known to eb christian.

Yes, he many times changed religions - born orthodox christian, than became Shia muslim, than catholic christian, again shia and so on.

i,ll ask for you

Very well, thanks.

[Manzareh]

they actually succeded in converting many iranians to shia ,before them iran was a sunni country.btw they are still doing the same to iranian sunnis.

i was refering to afghanistan. cheers