Afghan-e-Ghul: Term Origins

[Shamaar]

Okay, I know it's a derogatory term used for us but I would like to know where this term originates from.

I have read or heard (can't remember which) a Persian legend that went something like this:

There was once a nation that was known to be very talented at warfare. Some people said this nation was composed entirely of women, others said it was like any other nation. Regardless, the Persians went to war against them and were able to defeat them. Resulting from that, 1000 women from the losing nation were taken as prisoners and were marched from their homeland to Persia. On the way they stopped in what is now Afghanistan one night to rest. During sometime that night, a very powerful demon emerged from the mountains and killed some of the Persian soldiers, the rest ran away scared. The demon then impregnated all 1000 of the captured women and left. The children born to these women and their descendants became the mountain dwelling Pashtuns.

Now, the English word ghoul comes from the Arabic word ghul which was also transmitted to Farsi. Ghoul literally means demon and Wikipedia states, "The ghul is a devilish type of jinn believed to be sired by Iblis." I am not a fluent Farsi speaker but I do know for a fact that ghul is one of their main words used for demon.

One thing to note is that the term ghul must have been transmitted to Farsi after they were Islamized/Arabized, meaning this version of the origins of the term was born after ancient Persian times.

I am wondering if this derogatory term is indeed linked to this story. If it is then Afghan-e-Ghul could mean "Afghans of the demon." Firstly, I am curious if others have heard or read of this. Secondly, if anyone knows of any other possible origins of this term. And finally, if the term is translated to mean anything else.

[Admin Khan]

From what I have heard Shamaar is that in Kabul, when they see a Pashtun, only the Pashtun is considered an Afghan and they might at times joke and say "Afghan-e-ghul". Now, I have heard many Pashtuns complain that they are insulted by this because ghul in Pashto has a bad meaning. My uncle who was recently in Kabul said, he asked a shopper in the city a question in Pashto and he responded that he cant speak Afghani. Afghan-e-ghul is popular in Kabul which supposedly is a derogatory term preserved exclusively for Pashtuns.

I just asked my relative who graduated from Kabul University this very same question and he happens to be sitting across the room from me and he responded and said that Tajiks,Hazaras,Uzbeks etc only called Pashtuns Afghan in Kabul City. And if they were in a bad mood and felt like joking on Pashtuns, they would call us "Afghan-e-ghul" which meant Afghan fool[In a a more degrading way]But the Afghan in Afghan-e-ghul strictly equates to Pashtun, so in a way, it meant Pashtun ghul. If you couldn't speak Dari properly, you were labelled as incompetent and considered an "Afghan-e-ghul". But it didn't just have a strict correlation with Dari, it depended on many other factors at well.

It must've in my opinion originated from something more simpler, we are viewed in Pakistan and in Northern Afghanistan as incompetent and mentally challenged. It can presumably have something to do with that rumor I suppose? However, I am sure it revolves around an urban legend. I think just like how Punjabis call us Akharooth, our counterparts in Afghanistan call us Afghan-e-ghul.

[Shamaar]

Thanks Admin bro. There was a lot of real life experience in that post which one is hardly able to get outside of the homeland.

I agree that there could be a simpler origin of the term, based on what you said.

[Admin Khan]

Shamaar, you want to know what Kabulis think of us? Let me just give you a quick example, I was over my friends house who is from Kabul and they started telling his son "Are you going over the Afghans house?" I was shocked at what that meant because him being a Tajik and strictly referring to me as an Afghan was quite shocking to say the least. So the next day I asked his Mom in a polite and professional manner why she called me an Afghan in such a way she did. She said that in Kabul city, we are Kabulis, not Afghans. Only Pashtuns are Afghans hence when my son was going over your house, I referred to you and your family as Afghans since you speak Pashto and you are a Pashtun. I figured she must be biased and as curious as I can be Shamaar, I decided to conduct as a survey with the local senior Kabulis who weren't Pashtuns. Some said they hate being called Afghans and some said they did not care. But if it was one thing that was made very clear to me, it was that they strictly equate Pashtun = Afghan. So the next time you find some old man on YouTube blabbering and going off on how much he hates being called an Afghan, just know its not a rare case. In fact, I just asked that question to the KU graduate sitting adjacent to me and he also verified that in Kabul City, only a Pashtun is considered to be an Afghan. That is why when they insult us, they insult us with "Afghan-e-ghul" which is a euphemism for belittling us Pashtuns. However, the Afghan disapora in the west is changing and they don't mind being called Afghans at all. In fact, many other provinces don't mind. Its only a few Northern provinces who act in such a way. They strictly equate Pashtun with Afghan due to historical references. They think Shamaar(being a Pashtun) has enforced the Afghan identity on them.

Sorry if I wrote too much.

[Shayesta]

^ Are you talking about Kabulis as in those who have been inhabitant of Kabul for centuries, or those who are originally from some Shamali area but lived in Kabul for a very long time? Because those Kabulis who have been original inhabitants of Kabul always called themselves Afghans, but those who came to Kabul at later stage are a bit more uncivilized and uneducated and therefore got no idea which term to use for whom. I in fact have met millions of Tajiks who feel insulted when you tell them they ain't Afghans and honestly speaking even in Afghanistan it's the non Tajiks who mainly call themselves non-Afghans. And with non-Tajiks I mean Uzbeks, Hazaras, Nurestanis, etcetera. They love Afghanistan, but they refer to themselves after their ethnic, or Farsiwaan as majority are Dari speakers. That's the reason I correct people who badmouth Tajiks at all times because Tajiks by far haven't harmed Pukhtoons to the level for example Hazaras or Uzbeks have, and nor are they allergic to the term Afghan as much as Nurestanis and etcetera are.

But since for whatever reason Afghanistan is known as a Tajik versus Pukhtoon country, every negativity hold towards Pukhtoons will always be credited to Tajiks, init?

[Shamaar]

Nah, it's not too much at all. I have to admit I didn't know they were bothered by being called Afghans. That is very new to me. I always thought, based on the non-Pashtun Afghans I was friends with at university and stuff, that they were totally into the whole Afghan identity.

Me and a group of my closest friends started a Pashtun Students Association about 4 years ago at my university. We initially had several non-Pashtun Afghan friends sign up out of interest or whatever. Not 1 term went by that they launched their own purely Dari based Afghan Students Association. This left me with the impression that they place the Afghan name much higher than any of the individual ethnic names. Also, quite a few of them were from Kabul.

I guess you are right that their views change once they come to these countries. Regardless, I am enlightened by what you have presented.

[Admin Khan]

^ Are you talking about Kabulis as in those who have been inhabitant of Kabul for centuries, or those who are originally from some Shamali area but lived in Kabul for a very long time?

I never bothered asking them that question but as we know, Kabul province is 60percent Pashtun. So obviously that 60 percent would have no objection in being called an Afghan. Kabul city and non-Pashtuns according to my experiences and the experiences of my peers who have studied in Kabul, they embrace us as wild cavemen. They have all reported and stated what I said earlier, a non-Pashtun of Kabul city doesn't like being called an Afghan and that is the exact reason the term "Afghan-e-ghul" is being coined around. If they all proudly considered themselves Afghan, they would never have insulted us Pashtuns by calling us Afghan-e-ghul. Afghan in this context strictly means Pashtun. Notice what I said, non-Pashtun. That doesn't mean the majority. Tajiks are not majority in Kabul province. However, they appear to be majority in the city.

Because those Kabulis who have been original inhabitants of Kabul always called themselves Afghans, but those who came to Kabul at later stage are a bit more uncivilized and uneducated and therefore got no idea which term to use for whom. I in fact have met millions of Tajiks who feel insulted when you tell them they ain't Afghans and honestly speaking even in Afghanistan it's the non Tajiks who mainly call themselves non-Afghans. And with non-Tajiks I mean Uzbeks, Hazaras, Nurestanis, etcetera. They love Afghanistan, but they refer to themselves after their ethnic, or Farsiwaan as majority are Dari speakers. That's the reason I correct people who badmouth Tajiks at all times because Tajiks by far haven't harmed Pukhtoons to the level for example Hazaras or Uzbeks have, and nor are they allergic to the term Afghan as much as Nurestanis and etcetera are.

I come from the city of Kandahar. In Kandahar, we have a sizable population of Tajiks and they all proudly claim they are Pashtuns. They will argue and write thesis papers that since they speak Pashto and follow Pashtunwali, they are Pashtuns. They are affluent and not dependent on Pashtuns yet they consider themselves Afghan because they have learned the language and have been speaking it for generations now. I have a Tajik friend who can't even speak Dari even if his life depended on it. He speaks Pashto and can write scientific papers in Pashto.

But since for whatever reason Afghanistan is known as a Tajik versus Pukhtoon country, every negativity hold towards Pukhtoons will always be credited to Tajiks, init?

Afghanistan is known as a Pashtun vs Pashtun country. Tajiks play no role.

[Admin Khan]

Nah, it's not too much at all. I have to admit I didn't know they were bothered by being called Afghans. That is very new to me. I always thought, based on the non-Pashtun Afghans I was friends with at university and stuff, that they were totally into the whole Afghan identity.

Me and a group of my closest friends started a Pashtun Students Association about 4 years ago at my university. We initially had several non-Pashtun Afghan friends sign up out of interest or whatever. Not 1 term went by that they launched their own purely Dari based Afghan Students Association. This left me with the impression that they place the Afghan name much higher than any of the individual ethnic names. Also, quite a few of them were from Kabul.

I guess you are right that their views change once they come to these countries. Regardless, I am enlightened by what you have presented.

I recently attended a wedding of Kabulis[non-Pashtuns] aside from feeling extremely out of place, they all referred to themselves as Tajik and here was Admin Khan, "the Afghan". But like I said, I was receiving that vibe from the elders. The youth does not care about this nonsense. The new generation Tajiks,Uzbeks,Hazaras all proudly say they are Afghan. They won't bother saying that Shamaar[a Pashtun] has enforced the Afghan identity on them.

Our biggest problem is our lack of interest in our language. There was an Afghan TV channel[I can give you exact details if you want me too]and the News headline that go in a marquee on the bottom of the channel were only in Pashto. So, I recall a Dari speaker calling in and complaining that "Why does it only have news in Pashto, this is wrong, It should be in both languages". They agreed, and guess what? In no longer than a week, the news were both in Pashto and Dari. Now, when I occasionally grab a remote and begin flickering through TV channels, I begin seeing self-proclaimed Afghan channels, I see all programs mainly in Dari and the majority of the Afghan news channel do not have that marquee text in Pashto. So I thought to myself, I wonder if a Pashtun ever bothered calling them and complaining that they should also have the news in Pashto. But I guess not since its mainly in Dari.

And you know what? I respect Dari for that matter. I respect Dari speakers for caring so much about their language. Shame on us.

[Shamaar]

I recently attended a wedding of Kabulis[non-Pashtuns] aside from feeling extremely out of place, they all referred to themselves as Tajik and here was Admin Khan, "the Afghan". But like I said, I was receiving that vibe from the elders. The youth does not care about this nonsense. The new generation Tajiks,Uzbeks,Hazaras all proudly say they are Afghan. They won't bother saying that Shamaar[a Pashtun] has enforced the Afghan identity on them.

Our biggest problem is our lack of interest in our language. There was an Afghan TV channel[I can give you exact details if you want me too]and the News headline that go in a marquee on the bottom of the channel were only in Pashto. So, I recall a Dari speaker calling in and complaining that "Why does it only have news in Pashto, this is wrong, It should be in both languages". They agreed, and guess what? In no longer than a week, the news were both in Pashto and Dari. Now, when I occasionally grab a remote and begin flickering through TV channels, I begin seeing self-proclaimed Afghan channels, I see all programs mainly in Dari and the majority of the Afghan news channel do not have that marquee text in Pashto. So I thought to myself, I wonder if a Pashtun ever bothered calling them and complaining that they should also have the news in Pashto. But I guess not since its mainly in Dari.

And you know what? I respect Dari for that matter. I respect Dari speakers for caring so much about their language. Shame on us.

Yeah, I think Pashtuns are like archetypical Muslims. When any other religion is so much as shown in a negative light, they'll flood the source with enough complaints to have some sort of reversion or an apology. Muslims will sit and watch their religion slammed, and maybe let out a "tsk" or a "tauba."

In these kinds of things we're disgustingly passive.

[Shamaar]

There is not much for me to add Shamaar. Admin Khan summarized it beautifully. Afghan is an exclusive term for Pashtuns. They insult us by calling us Afghan e Ghul.

So, that old tale and stuff, is it likely just a recent fabrication?

[Shamaar]

Yup its a fabrication.

When someone says Afghan e Ghul. They are talking about Pashtuns and insulting them as someone who is retarded and not capable of possessing common sense. Its a direct insult only for Pashtuns because they think Pashtuns are Afghans.

As a Journalist, I have heard it a lot.

Okay cool. That makes sense. I'm always intrigued by myths like these so I decided to verify it's validity on here. You guys have all been a great help.

[Shayesta]

Muslims will sit and watch their religion slammed, and maybe let out a "tsk" or a "tauba."

Or even 'better', kill one of them and prove them right!

Kabul city and non-Pashtuns according to my experiences and the experiences of my peers who have studied in Kabul, they embrace us as wild cavemen.

When I went to Kabul university I didn't notice any of such and nor heard any such from my Pukhtoon relatives in Kabul, who study in Dari-faculties. Though there was this one faculty where there were issues regarding Pukhto-Dari which made the faculty split into Pukhto department and Dari department, but Dari department ended up closing very quickly since the best students turned out to be Pukhtoons, obviously joining the Pukhto faculty.

They have all reported and stated what I said earlier, a non-Pashtun of Kabul city doesn't like being called an Afghan and that is the exact reason the term "Afghan-e-ghul" is being coined around.

Literally only people I heard complain about this are indeed older people (over forties) and since those people are one of the reasons of our destructions, I am not surprised by their cheap thinking. The new generation in Kabul calls themselves Afghans and I noticed there was this guy from Kunduz who kept saying 'mah Afghanha' and all of a sudden his own uncle said 'hey, bas ko dega! Tu az chi waqt Afghaan shudi?'. The guy laughed and when his uncle left he apologized and said this is the reason why Afghanistan stayed backward; Our elder people are absolutely careless about respect and don't care about other people's feelings, and yet demand respect and unfortunately some youngsters even follow them. But at least I am relieved that the more educated our population gets, the newer our generation gets, the more sensible our people become.

I come from the city of Kandahar. In Kandahar, we have a sizable population of Tajiks and they all proudly claim they are Pashtuns. They will argue and write thesis papers that since they speak Pashto and follow Pashtunwali, they are Pashtuns.

Even my forefathers from my father's side were said to be Kohistanis who adapted Pukhto and Pakhtunwali since they started to live in Kandahar, and my forefathers from my mother's side were said to be partly Arab and partly Iranians who also adapted Pukhto and Pakhtunwali after moving to Kandahar. Just like how I for example have been raised as a Pukhtana, I have got the hope many people will learn from their mistakes and finally raise their children as Afghans.

Afghanistan is known as a Pashtun vs Pashtun country. Tajiks play no role.

Could you please elaborate on this?

And you know what? I respect Dari for that matter. I respect Dari speakers for caring so much about their language. Shame on us.

Exactly! This is something I have also discussed so often with my own mother but she never seem to care and always ends up saying 'originally I ain't even a Pukhtana and nor is your father a Pukhtoon, how about I complain about my children not speaking their 'native' language?', which is right but still since Pukhto is our language now, we should put our heart and soul into promotion of our beautiful language!

[pukhtana]

In Pakistan when a Sindhi,Baluchi or Punjabi wants to insult we are Akharuut.
In Afghanistan when a Tajik or Parsiwaan wants to insult we are Afghan-e-ghul.

[Shayesta]

What does a Akharut mean? And why are we Pukhtoons only being called the dumb ones no matter where we are? I heard even in India people got this image of us? :S

[Zayam]

It is so strange for me to read this, because coming from America, I have never heard anyone here speak in a negative way about Pashtun. When in Pakistan, I also did not hear it.