All the Indians in the House - Please Discuss

[Admin Khan]

wow, that is close to 11million Afghans. When I meet an Indian, he usually says "Are you Pathan? We have many Pathans in our village". They are usually very happy and glad to have met a Pashtun.

[drona]

Yes. Pathan is not a derogatory word in India. Usually it has positive connotations and people use the word with pride. Irfan Pathan ( not sure if he has Pakhtun ancestory) is an example.

[Admin Khan]

Yes. Pathan is not a derogatory word in India. Usually it has positive connotations and people use the word with pride. Irfan Pathan ( not sure if he has Pakhtun ancestory) is an example.

I understand that but we Pashtuns would rather be called Pashtuns or Afghans as opposed to Pathan. We feel like we at least deserve to be addressed respectfully with our ethnic name.

[SinghIsKing]

Drona you are doing the same mistake which all are doing here.
All Pathans of India are not actually ethnically pashtoons. At the time of muslim rulers there was a time of " Pathanisation ". In those times many rajput tribes and Bhumihar (in bihar) tribes are incorporated in Pathan grouping. For distinction between these two types of pathan, two words came in to existence
(1) Nasli pathan :- Ethnic pashtoon (Population :- At most 20000, That is also not pure because intermarriages has happened in past with other muslim groups.)

(2) Diwani Pathan :- Converts of Upper caste warrior Hindus. (Ex:- Rajput, Bhumihar etc). (Population :- More than 10 million.)

Pashto is almost non-existence in India. Yeah some universities provide the option to study.

[drona]

SiK,

I just pasted the contents of a Wiki article. I checked out the references, they seemed genuine.
Pashtun diaspora - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[SinghIsKing]

SiK,

I just pasted the contents of a Wiki article. I checked out the references, they seemed genuine.
Pashtun diaspora - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Check this website again. The population of Pashtoons in India is shown little more than 11000. Yeah Population of Pashtoons (Original ethnic) was also large before partition but after partition pashtoons migrated to Pakistan. Now Pakistan is the country which has largest pashtoon Population. Even Afghanistan comes second after pakistan in pashtoon poulation.

[drona]

Those numbers are for those whose first language is Pashto ( check the reference to Census of India), and not those who are Pashtun descended. Almost all these communities have lost touch with Pashto but still claim decent from different Pashtun tribes. Browse down to India subsection of the article.
Pashtun diaspora - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And read this article:
The Hindu : Miscellaneous / This Day That Age : dated July 20, 1954: Pakhtoons in Kashmir

[Feroza_Banu]

^Thanks a lot for all your replies...

Can you guys give me more information about this "ethnic cleansing of Hindus" in Kashmir? I remember either it was Drona or Sing who said 400,000 lives were lost or something like that.

I am really interested to know this.

[drona]

^
Feroza, I said ethnically cleansed, not killed. The Hindu Pundit community of Kashmir Valley, who had lived there for thousands of years, were forced to flee their homes and migrate to other parts of India due to a campaign of fear,threats and intimidation started by Pakistan trained terrorists and their separatist stooges.

Lately, the Kashmiri Sikh community is also getting threats.

I will be studying for an exam till Wednesday, but shall write in detail later if you want.

Regards,
Drona

[Feroza_Banu]

^I see. thank you for clarifying that.

i will be looking forward to it.

[drona]

Feroza,

First of all I must clarify that this essay only refers to the developments of Kashmir Valley, which only constitutes about 4.6 % of J&K territory under India's control. But since it is densely populated, it contributes about 40% population to the state. The separatists have never had any support in other parts of J&K (Jammu,Kargil,Laddakh)

Ever since J&K's accession to India, there has always existed a very small minority of Muslims in Kashmir Valley who want J&K to unite with Pakistan. These hard line Islamists agree with Djinnah that momeen and kuffar are two distinct nations and can not live in peace with each other. However, since the overwhelming majority of the Muslims were Sufis, such hardliners never found much support amongst the normal masses.

In 1987, the Federal government in New Delhi rigged the J&K state elections to influence the results in their own party's favor. Though shameful in Indian context, such electoral malpractices were norm rather than exceptions in developing countries. Even in India, booth capturing, rigging, etc. were quite common in some backward states until recently.

Obviously, there was wide-scale anger and disillusion amongst Kashmiris, which was skillfully manipulated by the Islamists into an anti-India sentiment . A very small number of young Kashmiris fled to PoK(AJK), where they received arms training in camps established by ISI. Within few months Pak Army pushed these newly trained "freedom fighters" along with the veterans from Afghan jihad across the border. More on this later.

Now a brief description of Hindu Pandit community in Kashmir Valley. Since the time Mughals had invaded Kashmir, this minority had always been affluent and educated. The main reason for their affluence was their values which stressed the importance of education (and not because they were oppressors, though that might have been a minor contributing factor during the Dogra rule). Even today, you will notice that the richest and most educated minorities in US/UK are Indians. In brief, they occupied the same unenviable position in the Kashmiri society that the Jews of pre-World-War Germany did. Thus the attitude of educated Kashmiri Muslims was quite ambivalent towards them.

Once the "freedom fighters" and Paki terrorists infiltrated back into the Indian territory, they initially targeted only government officials and politicians. However, the movement was hijacked by Pakistani terrorists as they soon realized that if genuine Kashmiris militants ever succeeded (who wanted freedom for whole J&K), it would create unrest in AJK and undermine Pakistan's own position. These worms then indiscriminately started killing and raping Hindus. The pro-Indian Kashmiri leaders were also targeted and killed off. Their allies, the Islamists that I had mentioned earlier, started a campaign of hatred against the Hindu community. In stead of Friday sermons, threats were made from the mosque loudspeakers and intimidating letters were sent to their houses.

Thus, during the 1988-1991 period, the Valley became so volatile that the law and order collapsed completely and the Indian government was forced to announce that it would not be able to protect the lives of Hindus. So, they were left with no choice but to leave their jobs,their homes where they had lived since times immemorial ; and migrate to filthy ghettos in other parts of India. Today, about 300,000 Pandits live in Jammu ghettos and 100,000 in other refugee camps in N.Delhi. These numbers are government estimates and may not be accurate. According to CIA, there are about 300,000 such IDPs.

In conclusion, I must clarify that most Kashmiri Muslims didn't want their Hindu neighbors to leave, as they are peaceful people by nature. However, this silent majority itself was terrified and afraid to speak up because of the death and destruction brought on by the ISI proxies.

Regards,
Drona

[KhalsaWarrior]

I have Kashmiri pandit friends in Delhi who tell me that the local Mosques in Kashmir would broadcast sermons asking Kashmiris to throw the Kuffars and non-believers out. People were excommunicated, their homes vandalized, threatened via letters/telephone and even kidnapped or killed. For a person of a religious minority this is too much to bear and concern for family takes over. That is what led to many of the Kashmiri Pandits leaving the valley. And once they left their homes were forcible taken over by their neighbors. Some would get a token amount in return if they were lucky but it wasnt the case for the most. But every one of the Kashmiris that have mentioned the above instances have also mentioned their parents' undying love and longing for Kashmir. Although my friends are at home in Delhi, their parents still long for their homeland.

[Michin Khel]

One of the best thread in PF, thank you my indian fellows.

[Feroza_Banu]

Thank you all for your answers.

I have another question:

I have lived in Pakistan for 10 years and those years were amongst my early childhood to mid teenage years... growing up i saw many pictures of atrocities committed by Indian army against regular muslims in Kashmir. they were painful to look at... it seemed as if Pakistan was trying to gain everyone's sympathy for the region and for their sufferings.

What i want to know is... to what extent is this true? is the indian army involved in torture, mistreatment, rape and murder of normal kashmiri citizens... r they suffering in normal bases.

I am a person who likes to tell the truth, even if it means pointing finger at my own blood... I really want an answer in the same context.

do you guys have any information about it?

[KhalsaWarrior]

Thank you all for your answers.

I have another question:

I have lived in Pakistan for 10 years and those years were amongst my early childhood to mid teenage years... growing up i saw many pictures of atrocities committed by Indian army against regular muslims in Kashmir. they were painful to look at... it seemed as if Pakistan was trying to gain everyone's sympathy for the region and for their sufferings.

What i want to know is... to what extent is this true? is the indian army involved in torture, mistreatment, rape and murder of normal kashmiri citizens... r they suffering in normal bases.

I am a person who likes to tell the truth, even if it means pointing finger at my own blood... I really want an answer in the same context.

do you guys have any information about it?

Feroza, I think atrocities happen. An army when faced with opposition, tries to use all means necessary and things sometimes go out of hand. They are well trained soldiers but when I am sure its hard to control oneself when u see a colleague being blown by a grenade.

I have heard from my Kashmiri friends, read books like curfewed night and seen first hand experiences in Punjab during the Khalistan militancy.

At the same time, I do think Pakistan actually blows things out of proportion for its own use. I mean its a well known fact that Mirwaiz's father, a moderate was killed by hardline elements. Yet ISI tries to blame security forces for his assassination.