Afghan nationalism vs Pashtun nationalism

[Mina]

Tajik is very much clear for the educated ones where it comes from and what the name means. Now for under educated folks belonging to a lower caste of the society I don't blame you don't know anything about Tajik.

Yes for the EDUCATED ones hisory of Tajeks is very clear and I guess u 're not in that league yet as u even struggle about ur own history. Esp if u 're not even aware of ur own society without any caste do a favor and save the comedy.

Tajik means any Persian speaker who is neither Turk nor Arab. The terminology is historically older than the origination of pashtuns or their language.
Saadi used Tajik in his poems so did Jaami.
??Where ever the Tajiks were Turks this terminology was used to distinguished them from Turks, who also happened to adapt the Great Language of Farsi.

U could be very well one of those Turks, Arabs, Mongols or any of those millions of invaders adapting Farsi and became supposedly a Tajek as even Turks, Arabs and Mongols in those regions by now 've started to use Farsi as their first language. No wonder u got more Arab lastnames than Persian. And Emal wror by now posted what I wanted to, get some education from him about urself.

Tajiks of Tajikistan Don'T like us LoL They are our brothers and appreciate that effort we made to end their civil war. They are the people who call Ahmad Shah Massoud their national Hero.
Tajik = Persian = Aryans and whether the Ruling Mullahs of Iran likes it or not the people know it and if some of them are sensitive thats due to geopolitics and the unfortunate country called Afghanistan.

I never said Tajekistanis dont like u 'cause Tajekistanis I know of see everyone in Afghanistan as just Afghans and I btw think u 've insulted their independence movements badly by calling Masood their hero. They might be ur brothers mainly in fields of entertainment as only reason they raised to fame in music is 'cause of Afghan songs mainly sung by Pashtuns, but they 've already shown their brotherhood in late 2001 by fencing their borders for u when u needed to flee out of the trouble in north. I hope u know what incident I'm speaking of. It was Pakhtunkhwa which border always remained open for u and always 'll.

Now lets talk about you which is a hybrid product of Dravidian, Arabs, Punjabis. Your language was non existent until 40-50 years ago.
No culture and no identity. The class and inferiority of the language is such once you get to the cities your forget your own things and adapt Tajik culture and Language.

Our culture is Pashtunwali, language is Pashtu, identity Pashtun, and countries Afghanistan/Pakistan. Even if we 're Dravidians, Arabs, Punjabis or Chinese atleast we developed something of our own and dont speak a language nor follow culture of others and then claim our rights on it, unlike u who came from across the globe, adapted Persian language and culture and now claim to be proudest Persians. The fact u think our language exists since half a century only is not a shock coming from someone who thinks Pashtuns only make 32% of the country. And be careful if u speak of losing culture and language 'cause visit Kunar, Kandahar, Helmand and Paktia and despite of quiet some Tajek presence, 100% there speaks Pashtu.

We are at least not confused with our sexuality as there is another thread in this forum about your sexuality

Yes sex changes amongst Iranians and bachabazi in north must a example of those?

Trust me I came to this forum by accident and I am no one that you think. If you are weak in argument against me you can't make it up by saying I am someone else. I am in Tajikam and everyone knows me who am i there

If u werent weak in arguments urself then u would 've remembered how u refused to recognize Parsistani who's the most valueable member of Tajekam. I didn't know Iranians could be frustrated about Pashtuns to the extend like him.

?Well they were under communism for decades and they have started removing it.

Its been 2 decades now, whats been removed so far?

But even Iranians take pride in calling massoud the son of Iran. The fighter for Iranzamin. and they call "Afghanistan" a fake British name lol

Half a century later they will definitly officially claim he was from Iran if we still have the name Afghanistan. The same they claimed Sayed jamaluddin and many others.

Let Iran 've his dead soul. Despite of critics on Masood he never considered himself Khorasani or Iranian, but solely Afghan and many Pashtuns dont 100% hate him for who he was, but for what his supporters 're doing in his name. And at a time Iranians used to claim Ahmad Zahir was a Iranian, Tajekistanis claimed he was Tajekistani and u claim he's a Tajek while we all know the truth too well. And its btw ur Tajeks who 're being treated like dogs in Iran, drugged and sent back to Afghanistan, or beaten at the border by ur Iranians border. Not Pashtuns.

massoud is never their for low class sub standard low caste tribes to miss. He is admired by the entire world. A few Mullah omari tribes don't matter. It would be an insult to massoud if we call him Afghan.
He was not, he was a son of Khorasan.

He considered himself an Afghan but still not even 1% of the world knows who he is or was. Yes thats what his supporters would love to believe but u can do a survey and ACCIDENTALLY visit as many foreign forums as u like and blow our minds by showing how many people actually heard of him.

[Nick]

I Don't know why is it so difficult for some people to get some of the basic concepts of ethnicity. I have lived four years of my live in Tajikistan, and all of my cousins came from Iran are identified as Tajiks and by that same token Tajik=Farsi speakers of Central Asia I too come under this identity despite I hate the fact that I am considered "tajik" by outsiders. After all Dari is my mother tongue and it was mother of my parents and grand-parents.

The Bulk of Dari speaking population of afghanistan can be considered 2nd Major "ethnic" group while Hazara, fallowed by Uzbeks.

Over the course of history specially in the last 2 centuries Afghanistan had a major population changes, mainly caused by two Western empires British and Russians known as the "The Great Game era". The Great game in south Western Asia was played at mids of 18th century between Russia and UK. It started with Russian expansion into Caucasian region in 1806 with support of Christian kingdoms such as Georgia, clashed with Ottaman resulted in Caucasian War that actually ended in 1870 covering all of Caucasian region and 70% of Central Asia bordered with Kingdom of Kabul where it finally divided the Kabul kingdom and spread kingdoms were formed such as Russian supported 9 years lived Kingdom of Balkh, the areas under her were nicknamed by Russians as "Afghan Turkistan", a name that can still be found in Google search box. Herat under Iran, and Kabul finally under British influence. The Great Game ended in 1893 with major loss to Afghanistan losing 1/4 of her population and almost 1/2 of its lands to British and few smaller areas/towns to Russia.

During the Great Game Era major population changes took place, from 1807 up to 1873 Red Army forced 2.5 million people to flee their homelands, of which Central Asia mainly the Persian Speaking Turkic race linguistically speaking the Tajiks. At that time Manjhit Dynasty was disliked by northern Turkics it has been said that Northern Turkics helped Russians topple the mighty Manjhit Dynasty who were the rulers of expended areas pretty much from modern day Samarkand, Bukhara and Khujandup to Farghana. The Russians made sure that Turkic people are divided based on their languages, a major project that was started at early stages was complete in 1919 with creation of Tajik ASSR, Uzbek SSR etc.

At the Time when Total population of Turkistan ASSR formed in 1918 was only 4.6 million already had 1 million Refugees outside the boundaries, by 1920s more some half million of them were Tajiks who came and settled in Afghanistan. At that time Afghanistan was only 9 million. With large numbers of Tajiks in Afghanistan the Last Amir of Bukhara Alam Khan under influence of Afghan Amir with growing anti-Russian sentiments organized a force of 36,000 set to attack Turkistan. After some Major clashes the newly Afghan funded Islamic party of Alim Khan lost, this we know as Bacmachi revolt, their loss resulted further number of Turkistanis into Afghanistan. Perhaps large numbers of non-Afghans immigrants such as Tajiks and Uzbeks rise the towns into cities was a worry some to Amanullah Khan specially when 40 years prior Russians already coined the word "Turkistan" inside the Afghan Land (ie Afghan turkistan) therefore tried to enforce the nomad Afghan tribes to stay in their lands most of them being "Ghalji" otherwise would be lost to settled Turkistani refugees.

This is a fact, that we all aware of and just because of Islam and brotherhood we have kept shut but facts need to be clearly heard that Northern Afghanistan in those 2 centuries resulted in increase to its population by 40% and that today those immigrants are ancestors of many Tajiks and Uzbeks.

Therefore the Tajiks of Afghanistan 2nd major group which covers 27-32% of Afghanistan cannot be considered a single body of people but rather many nations. Amongst them include Farsiwans (Native Afghans) immigrant Tajikistanis, Mixed Native-Uzbeks, Uzbekistanis and even mixed Uzbek-Tajiks and Sunni converted Hazaras. Again its very stupid to consider any linguistic group as a Race. Languages changes all the time, people move back and forth and what matters is knowing your background. Majority of those of us whom westerners label "Tajiks" disagree with being associated with Tajikistan or any land north of Oxus, calling ourselves Afghan and nothing more, not surprisingly but some of us don't again that's because we are not one race. If we were by majority non-afghan, or true Tajiks won't we be fighting to be united with Tajikistan? Won't we be holding and chanting Long live Tajikistan. Nationality wise answer is simple Tajiks have Pashtunistanis, Uzbekistanis, and Tajikistanis. First Figure out who is Tajik, and What is Tajik.


As an example to start with, by Nejat I am Afghan, atleast I see my features like majority of Afghans, not Tajiks/Uzbek and nor too white nor too black. I am Qarabaghi proud to be from Qarabagh from 7th Generations, since my mother tongue is Dari (Thanks to Russians its associated with confusion with Turkic Persian speakers ie identified as Tajiki) , and mother tongue my whole family is Dari we are proud Farsiwans. At the same time I am Ahmadzai, so I am proud to be brothers with Pashtun, but hold on Pashtuns once upon a time were proud Afghans, and still are.

[Nick]

the son of iran lol why do you pretend like that means anything? massoud the sunni would have less rights in iran than a jew.

here are some more sons of iran, or maybe daughters? who knows, they are transvestites



again, massoud is in great company. whether he is in sunni hating iran or soviet tajikistan.

wow One of them look like Parsistani

[Mir_Ghazab]

Paikaar




You're tottally wrong! Arabs who had settled in Persia were called Tajik, which is the Persian form of Tazik derived from the Arabic word Tazi (son of Arab who grew up in persia.lolllllll).


again you're wrong! saaidi says:
چو آب میرود این پارسی بقوت طبع
chu hab mirawad hin parsi ba qowat tabey
نه مرکبی است که از وی سبق برد تازی
na markaby ast ke az woy sabaq bard tazi.

undoubtedly tazi means here arab.

When the Arabs conquered Persia in a very brutal way they forced the persians women to marry arabs soldiers.

After the battle of Jelovla, It is reported that 130,000 Persian women and children were enslaved and sold in the Mecca and Medina markets.

It's a well-known fact that the Arabs(tazik) colonized, exploited, raped and despised the population in persia.

Cease misleading your readers! This forum could do with one less resident historian and expert in the presence of the mightly nutter Nick Mammad Ahmadzai and who has managed to impress even the administrators in here.

There is NO contention and controversy about Tajik identity and his history. Those in the know, sufficiently LEARNED and educated in history and civilization of near east and central asia, know well the origin of the term "Tajik" and what it stands for.

Tajik refers to the settled, urbanized Dari-speaking folks of Iranian origin as opposed to invading and newly settled, nomadic, tent-dwelling Turks, Mongols and Arabs of deserts.

These Iranians or Persians who had converted to Islam were colleagues to Arabs, who had gone into the tents of Turks converting them into Islam, and were called "Taziks", which meant "Arabized". But they were non-Arab Muslims.

Tajik families like Samanids, Barmakids, Safarids, Ghorids, Afshenids, and others from Herat, Balkh, Kabul, Farah, Ghazni, Gardez and........... had played an undeniable and incrediblely paramount role in the religion, language, culture and governance of the region.

Oh Ke Turk bud wa man Tajik
Har do daashtem khweshi nazdek

He who was a Turk and I a Tajik
We both had a close relationship- Jami Herati on his student and father of Turk/Uzbek language Ali Sher Nawaee

Shayad ke bar Padshaah begoyand
Turke tu berekht khoone Tajik

Perhaps it should be said to King
Your Turk poured the blood of this Tajik- Saadi Shiraazi refering to himself as Tajik against the Turk girl in the court of the King that swept him of his feet

Yak Hamla du Hamla, shab wa Tareki
Chusti Kun wa Turki, na susti wa Tajiki

There is night and dark, and one attack and second attack
Be fast and furious and a Turk, not a laidback and passive and Tajik- Mawlana Jalaludin Balkhi, a Tajik, about Turk being warlike, and Tajik being passive non-warlike


There are lots of youngsters in here and they're being strayed by reading crap about other nationalities. For Pashtons to know themselves fully they must know others and get a good education about the history and civilization of the region.

I don't have time, otherwise I would give you a good lesson.

[khyaal]

Tajikistanis today see u as just Afghanis who happen to speak speak same language as them,

Mina! You have exposed yourself by arrogantly distorting the word Afghan to Afghanis. It shows that your are either a Punjabi are a punjabised or Punjab co-opted pashtun.

Afghanistan is a two and a half century old state named after afghan nation where our fathers and we all identify ourselves in official documentation like domicile forms and ID card forms as afghan even here in occupied Pakhtunkhwa (khyber Pakhtunkhwa) as Afghans and not afghanis. So you don't even know such a basic thing about Pashtun(afghans).

[ScimitarXEdge]

Mina! You have exposed yourself by arrogantly distorting the word Afghan to Afghanis. It shows that your are either a Punjabi are a punjabised or Punjab co-opted pashtun.

Afghanistan is a two and a half century old state named after afghan nation where our fathers and we all identify ourselves in official documentation like domicile forms and ID card forms as afghan even here in occupied Pakhtunkhwa (khyber Pakhtunkhwa) as Afghans and not afghanis. So you don't even know such a basic thing about Pashtun(afghans).

No offense but you're drawing straw-hairs.

[khyaal]

No offense but you're drawing straw-hairs.

Sorry! My english is not so good so didn't get what you mean. But it is really strange for someone who claims to be Pashtun and distort the very name of his/her nation since afghan is also the name of pashtun nation and the two words are synonymous. Why one is here if he has no regard for his nation?

[ScimitarXEdge]

it's an expression in English where someone tries to draw conclusions on minor inconsistencies or assumptions on very flimsy basis.

in Pashto I there's a similar matal which is rendered "la mangay sa tanha yaw awsha prewozi"

something like that

[khyaal]

it's an expression in English where someone tries to draw conclusions on minor inconsistencies or assumptions on very flimsy basis.

in Pashto I there's a similar matal which is rendered "la mangay sa tanha yaw awsha prewozi"

something like that

LOL. I could n't get even the Pashto proverb (btw, I'm from charsada). Anyway, these minor things sometimes expose a person's concealed emotions or his hidden agenda.

[ScimitarXEdge]

it means from the water jar only a tear droplet falls.

and well I don't think that's a very logical way of looking at things.

[khyaal]

Slip of the tongue in freudian psychology is an indicator of the subconscious(though several of freud's theories have proved to be not so correct but still there is partial truth in them). LOL

[ScimitarXEdge]

lol that's not quite an example of Freudian Slip

[ScimitarXEdge]

massoud is never their for low class sub standard low caste tribes to miss
He is admired by the entire world. A few Mullah omari tribes don't matter. It would be an insult to massoud if we call him Afghan.
He was not, he was a son of Khorasan.

entire world? French and British Imperialists and their cronies.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Even in AFG he lived in a country shared with a tribe !! inclinded to homsexuality and part of their culture. But again doesn't mean anything.

But the thing is Just like Jamaluddin Afghani who was exiled from Afghanistan by Pokhtoons and when Iran claimed him you people started crying.
Now I would love to see a century later you don't cry for massoud giving your current treatment of him

Yeah we can't be inclined to the oh so heterosexual cornholing of Russian Male POWS by Massoud and his men now can we?

I don't think Jamaluddin could be compared to Massoud, Jamaluddin loved Islam and wanted to benefit all Muslims around the world, Massoud just wanted to benefit his own bank account and his man-lust

[Paikaar]

Yeah we can't be inclined to the oh so heterosexual cornholing of Russian Male POWS by Massoud and his men now can we?

I don't think Jamaluddin could be compared to Massoud, Jamaluddin loved Islam and wanted to benefit all Muslims around the world, Massoud just wanted to benefit his own bank account and his man-lust

Listen:
Where was his bank account?? Ghalzai National Bank LoL.
You don't even count as pashtun? You are Ghaljai = Ghal = > Robber and Jai ba wazne => Zai so u now wat i mean:
Thtas why Zardad and Gulbuddin were Ghalzai same as you.