Bride Price among Pashtuns, is not what it is assumed

[Charsi Malang]

May be things are different in Kohat city but i cant ignore the fact that Hindkowans of Kohat city introduce themselves as Khattaks, Bangashs and Afridis.

You are 100% correct. They can't do that with other Kohatyaan. Outside of Kohat they can get away with it quite easily. I've come across this more than once.

[Charsi Malang]

This is disturbing to hear, how can we sus them out, is there any clear giveaway that these guys are hindicks, I mean with the punjabies it's easy to tell you will meet many so called lodhis, durrani and whatnot in punjab, but once they open their mouth the disgusting sound of punjabi fills the air giving away their true identity as punjabies.

There are certain characteristics of different groups that give them away. Accents within Pashto language-not dialects. Way of speaking, things they say and so on and so forth. You have to however, be familiar with those native groups to pick up on these things and quite often they are not easy to spot but mashraan spot these right away. You have to remember as much as Pashtuns love themselves and are a proud peoplethey have a lot of very peculiar traits, sometimes negative that are very difficult for other ethnicities to emulate.

[maneatinglizard]

The Lodhis and Durranis that you see in Punjab may very well belong to these tribes due to paternal lineage but intermarrying with and living amongst local Punjabis contributed to them not retaining their culture,language.Punjab was once part of Ahmad Shah Abdali's empire and probably other Afghan/Central Asian rulers have also held it so these Durranis may have migrated back then.

They could also be like the "Arabs" in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India that claim to have descended from Arabs, even though there's no historical record of mass immigration by Arabs into any of those lands, they don't look like Arabs, have retained no Arab culture or language, and don't have any genetic affinity with them.

I'm sure some of them really do have Pashtun ancestry (as I'm sure some of the Arabs truly do have Arab ancestry), and I wouldn't doubt any individual's lineage unless there was a reason (i.e. marriage proposal), but I'm pretty sure a lot of people in India/Pakistan have fake lineages to hide low caste origins, as unfortunately Muslims didn't do enough to stop discrimination based on caste in India.

[Samandri]

The marriages of rural/traditional Pashtun families with rural/traditional family of different ethnicity , are commonest with Baluchs in Baluchistan. Pashtun-Baluch marriages have respectable aura around them. Pashtuns do not look down upon Baluchs and vice versa and have many commonalities. On the other hand , there is usually some thing abnormal and foul about Pashtun girl marrying a Punjabi or Mohajir man. Either the Pashtun girl or her parents are de-pashtunized/bey-pashto or punjabized/urduized, or she has rebelled against her parents and has married the guy in a scandalous manner. These cases are common outside Pakhtunkhwa. Within KP/FATA, if a Pashtun girl is discovered by her parents that she has eloped with a local guy , she is married off some times to a far flung area of Punjab to avoid badnami.

[Charsi Malang]

The marriages of rural/traditional Pashtun families with rural/traditional family of different ethnicity , are commonest with Baluchs in Baluchistan. Pashtun-Baluch marriages have respectable aura around them. Pashtuns do not look down upon Baluchs and vice versa and have many commonalities. On the other hand , there is usually some thing abnormal and foul about Pashtun girl marrying a Punjabi or Mohajir man. Either the Pashtun girl or her parents are de-pashtunized/bey-pashto or punjabized/urduized, or she has rebelled against her parents and has married the guy in a scandalous manner. These cases are common outside Pakhtunkhwa. Within KP/FATA, if a Pashtun girl is discovered by her parents that she has eloped with a local guy , she is married off some times to a far flung area of Punjab to avoid badnami.

I concur

[Kakar-Wardak]

Among the punjabi pashtuns the Niazi are the most pashtun like even though they speak seraki, one Niazi told me they only marry amongst fellow Niazi in order to keep their lineage.

Btw are there any pashtun communities in Iran?

[Samandri]

Among the punjabi pashtuns the Niazi are the most pashtun like even though they speak seraki, one Niazi told me they only marry amongst fellow Niazi in order to keep their lineage.

Btw are there any pashtun communities in Iran?

Karim Khan Zand (reign 1751 to 1779) uprooted all the Pashtun settlements in Iran as they were contenders for throne. Cambridge history of Iran says that on his order, Pashtuns were either killed or chased away from Iran, and that in Tehran alone 9,000 Pashtun families were massacred. The ones settled in Siestan and Kirman were expelled in early 19th century. So i expect no Pashtun settlements in Iran , except many be on border.

[toughpashtun]

Karim Khan Zand (reign 1751 to 1779) uprooted all the Pashtun settlements in Iran as they were contenders for throne. Cambridge history of Iran says that on his order, Pashtuns were either killed or chased away from Iran, and that in Tehran alone 9,000 Pashtun families were massacred. The ones settled in Siestan and Kirman were expelled in early 19th century. So i expect no Pashtun settlements in Iran , except many be on border.

9000 families means ~ 90,000 people. I had no idea that there was such a large Pashtun population in Iran back in the day.Probably Durranis from Southern Afghanistan.

[Charsi Malang]

Among the punjabi pashtuns the Niazi are the most pashtun like even though they speak seraki, one Niazi told me they only marry amongst fellow Niazi in order to keep their lineage.

Btw are there any pashtun communities in Iran?

What good is "lineage" if you have completely and utterly lost touch with your original ethnic identity? What imagineable good would preserving that lineage achieve if that same lineage has more in common with another ethnicity than their own original one?

[Friends of Baloch]

9000 families means ~ 90,000 people. I had no idea that there was such a large Pashtun population in Iran back in the day.Probably Durranis from Southern Afghanistan.

This is nonsense. Tehran was just a little town in the 18th century. There is no chance that anywhere close to 90,000 Afghans would have been in Tehran or probably even in the entirety of that country.

It is true that thousands of Afghans were reportedly killed in many parts of Iran during that period in the 1700s and were driven out of the country, but the figure of 9000 in Tehran cited by the Cambridge book is not a fact, it is based on supposition.

Our friend is mistaken to say that the Cambridge book says that there were 9000 Pashtun families. The passage in the book just says that there were some accounts that 9000 Pashtuns were killed there. But it is not a figure that can be backed up with evidence.

Nobody knows how many Afghans were killed during the Zand wars in Iran or how many Afghans were even there. All that is known is that Afghans suffered heavy fatalities and were effectively eliminated from Iran after having been in the country for about 40 years.

[Admin Khan]

Samandri,

Is this practice really limited to Pashtuns though? Sindhis have a similar practice as well, no?

[Samandri]

Samandri,

Is this practice really limited to Pashtuns though? Sindhis have a similar practice as well, no?

Sindhis have same practice of Hindu-ish Jahaiz as Punjabis

[maneatinglizard]

Why do Punjabis still do it the Hindu way? Haven't they been Muslim for a long time?

I have to imagine the Muslim rulers of Punjab expected their Muslim populations to perform marriages the Sharia way, with a mahr instead of jahaiz, so I wonder if this practice crept back into Punjab and Sindh after the Sikhs and British took over.

[Traveller]

Why do Punjabis still do it the Hindu way? Haven't they been Muslim for a long time?

I have to imagine the Muslim rulers of Punjab expected their Muslim populations to perform marriages the Sharia way, with a mahr instead of jahaiz, so I wonder if this practice crept back into Punjab and Sindh after the Sikhs and British took over.

I think Punjab only recently became majority-Muslim and I have a feeling they were never properly taught Islam until recently. One of my aunts had a Punjabi servant who was an old man yet did not know how to pray. The majority of Punjabis from what I have heard and seen do not fast, this is especially true in the rural areas. They even have a saying "Pathan janay Ramzan janay" roughly meaning that fasting is for Pashtuns("Pathans" in their language).

Za ba taso ta yaw kisa wowayam. Dwa dre kala wrrande rojo ke Pekhawar ke gharma ke zamoong kor makhe ta yaw punjabay raghalay wo. Zamoong sokidar na ye ooba woghokhtal. Sokidar warna tapos wokrro che "sta roja nishta?" Punjabay warta wowayal che "za punjabay yam. Pukhtana roje neewale shi kho za na sham neewale. Sokidar warta wowayal che "oowaza moong ta ta ooba na darkawoo." O daghase kisa khatma shwa.

I should caution against painting all Punjabis with the same brush. Many of the educated ones do fast as do all the ones I have met in the west. Also as religious education is increasing the situation is getting better, even in rural Punjab.

[khushal]

I think Punjab only recently became majority-Muslim and I have a feeling they were never properly taught Islam until recently. One of my aunts had a Punjabi servant who was an old man yet did not know how to pray. The majority of Punjabis from what I have and seen do not fast, this is especially true in the rural areas. They even have a saying "Pathan janay Ramzan janay" roughly meaning that fasting is for Pashtuns("Pathans" in their language).

Za ba taso ta yaw kisa wowayam. Dwa dre kala wrrande rojo ke Pekhawar ke gharma ke zamoong kor makhe ta yaw punjabay raghalay wo. Zamoong sokidar na ye ooba woghokhtal. Sokidar warna tapos wokrro che "sta roja nishta?" Punjabay warta wowayal che "za punjabay yam. Pukhtana roje neewale shi kho za na sham neewale. Sokidar warta wowayal che "oowaza moong ta ta ooba na darkawoo." O daghase kisa khatma shwa.

I should caution against painting all Punjabis with the same brush. Many of the educated ones do fast as do all the ones I have met in the west. Also as religious education is increasing the situation is getting better, even in rural Punjab.

The vast majority of desi muslims that I have met here in the states do not fast and that includes indian muslims and pakistani muslims.